Front suspension "sticky"?

[mdsuave13]

I have noticed that my front suspension feels "sticky" it doesnt smoothly adjust up and down. I weigh 165lbs and it just stays uncompressed until i really brake hard, then it will go down, but with small adjustments, it has a notchy, sticky feel to it.

Has anyone experienced this or fixed this? I am wondering if it needs the fork oil changed or if it is the overall crapiness of the front springs....

anyone want to field this one? :)

[jkomp316]

Mine is like that to an extent. It wont compress at all when i sit on it. If a give it a nudge with the front brake it goes down though. I havent looked into it but I guess the fork oil is like vegitable oil or something :lol: You might want to change it.

[red2003]

I weigh 210 and my Roketa with USD forks acts like that too. I would prefer them to be softer sprung. It's not like we can sail these things off jumps anyway. I think a fork oil change WOULD help, but that's a fairly big job with inverted forks. Gotta pull the whole front of the bike apart. I think that'll be my next project. I will pull them apart and change out the stock fluid for a lite weight synthetic fork oil.

[jkomp316]

Maybe the Chinese found an easy way to get rid of all thier leftover fry oil? Start manufacturing "USD" forks!

[molypod]

By changing my fork oil and by cleaning my seals I have noticable difference in the smoothness..


Here's the thread. Forks (http://www.chinariders.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1449&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)

[mdsuave13]

thanks molypod, that is VERY helpful...

that is the other sweet thing about these bikes, i wouldnt feel so bad if i totally screwed something up because its a inexpensive purchase as compared to a high end jap enduro. I can learn how to do more extensive repairs on this for when i buy a much bigger bike down the road.

[IronFist]

thanks molypod, that is VERY helpful...

that is the other sweet thing about these bikes, i wouldnt feel so bad if i totally screwed something up because its a inexpensive purchase as compared to a high end jap enduro. I can learn how to do more extensive repairs on this for when i buy a much bigger bike down the road.

Ditto. :D

[jkomp316]

IMHO i'm not sure i would trust full synthetic fork oil in the upsideown forks. our chinese fork seals are not the best.

[red2003]

IMHO i'm not sure i would trust full synthetic fork oil in the upsideown forks. our chinese fork seals are not the best.

Yeah, a lot of people are under the impression that synthetic oil "leaks" by more then conventional. It has never been my experiance, or any one else I know for that matter, that I or they have ever seen this or heard of a situation where changing to synthetic oil caused a leak that wasn't already present to begin with. Synthetic oil molecules are not necessarily any smaller then dino oil, they are just more uniform in size since they are man made.

[blimpman]

Make sure that the torque on the triple clamp bolts iare correct. Locktite of course. You can crank down and pinch the tubes too much.

[fatboy250]

I put about 4oz of Trans Fluid in my USD forks and they seem to be working fine. I did not remove my forks. Only the top screw cap.

[madmaximum]

Did you add the tranny fluid because your forks were "sticky" too? I've noticed that mine will compress when stopping, & "pop" back up when I take off.

[liverchip]

Mine are actually a bit soft. I definitely use the full travel during my rides. I am 215 It really needs stiffer springs IMO, I know I can preload the existing springs with washers, but that takes away travel and only hides the issue. What is the consensus on fork oil type. I'm thinking a heavier weight oil to increase dampening and help out.

[stixx3969]

Mine does it to some extent but I'm used to it. May do new oil some day.

[jkomp316]

I dont think changing to a full synthetic fork oil will "cause" it to leak. But I do think it will leak faster if there ever is one. I don't have much faith in the seals :wink:

[red2003]

Mine are actually a bit soft. I definitely use the full travel during my rides. I am 215 It really needs stiffer springs IMO, I know I can preload the existing springs with washers, but that takes away travel and only hides the issue. What is the consensus on fork oil type. I'm thinking a heavier weight oil to increase dampening and help out.

Maybe you got softer springs since it is an off road only bike. The dual sport USD forks are pretty freakin stiff IMO. Maybe you could switch out springs with someone wanting a plusher ride??

[molypod]

Just a note on the bottom Allen bolts..

I had read somewhere ( I wish I could remember where) after changing my oil that you do not have to remove the Allen Bolts for the oil change on Inverted Forks, that once removed they can be real tough to get started again as it could just spin the bottom cartridge.

[4xflyer]

"I put about 4oz of Trans Fluid in my USD forks and they seem to be working fine. I did not remove my forks. Only the top screw cap."

It looks like you have the inverted forks..

Did you drain out any oil before adding the 4 oz? Were your forks sticking before you added atf?
Has anyone been successful in draining their fork oil while the forks were on the bike?

[fatboy250]

"I put about 4oz of Trans Fluid in my USD forks and they seem to be working fine. I did not remove my forks. Only the top screw cap."

It looks like you have the inverted forks..

Did you drain out any oil before adding the 4 oz? Were your forks sticking before you added atf?
Has anyone been successful in draining their fork oil while the forks were on the bike?

Yes USD forks. No I didn't drain any nor did I see any. Yes they were getting "sticky". They seem to be fine now. Funny, Dad weighs a good 80lbs less and has about 3500miles less but yet ours both started "sticking" about the same time. We added 4oz to his as well and it seems to have cured the problem.

Jason

[mdsuave13]

is this 4oz to each side or 4oz total for both? aka 2oz left and 2oz right?

You did this on the ground? or on a stand?

Just curious, never had forks apart in my life.

[fatboy250]

Measured 4oz and poured into the each leg on the ground. Maybe could have had more but I didn't want to risk blowing any of the seals.

[mdsuave13]

thank you very much, i think i may try this out over the weekend...

[4xflyer]

I tried to remove the fork caps to add some 5w fluid but they would only loosen up but not come out (forks still on bike per fb250). I did some light tapping but that didn't help. Do you need to loosen the bottom allen bolts or what is the method?
The fork caps easily threaded back in and I'm trying to avoid another big project for now.
Thanks!

[molypod]

I tried to remove the fork caps to add some 5w fluid but they would only loosen up but not come out (forks still on bike per fb250). I did some light tapping but that didn't help. Do you need to loosen the bottom allen bolts or what is the method?
The fork caps easily threaded back in and I'm trying to avoid another big project for now.
Thanks!

after unscrewing the caps completely you should be able to depress the forks and they, and the rod they are attached to will, rise out of the tube.

[TheBrainII]

Mine on the 07 GY-5 are pretty plush but It does feel like it might have minor “sticky/notchy” feel. I read people are adding a little ATF fluid to the tube. Is ATF fluid safe on the seals used in forks? Is it the same as shock oil or something? If it gets worse I might look into it but for now it’s not a problem.

[IronFist]

Is ATF fluid safe on the seals used in forks? Is it the same as shock oil or something?

Sorry I don't know from shock oil either. :? Is ATF and shock oil the same, simular, is ATF cheaper? Thanks. N2r.

[katoranger]

ATF is about $2 a quart, but if it is safe to use? Fork oil comes in different weights and any motorcycle shop should carry it.

Allen

[jkomp316]

ive heard from more places then this one, that ATF can be mixed with the fork oil or even replace it. i put 4oz in each leg of mine and its not as notchy, i actually used some old ATF+3 i had in the garage :lol:

ATF is a little thicker, prob about 15wt. As for the fork seals, automatic trannys have much more demanding seals in them. If ATF doesnt harm the main and rear seals on a tranny, I doubt it will harm your fork seals.

[fatboy250]

The ATF is an old school performance mod that I read about in one of my old Suzuki GS750/850 manuals. I did it back then to my GS850 and had no problems. And now on my Roketa with no problems. I may need to add a few more oz. because I still get a sticky feeling every now and again, but nothing like it was. I just didn't want to put too much and have issues with my seals.

Jason

[ob1]

Here is another idea on sticky forks - fork binding.

Luckily, the repair is free. Put your bike on a stand so that it is balanced well, and the front wheel is in light contact with the ground.

Loosen the top triple clamp stem bolt, the upper and lower triple clamp bolts, and the front axle. When I say loosen, I mean only to the point that the parts can move, if a bit sticky. Definitely not falling apart! Depending on how your front axle mounts, you may have left and right axle clamps, or the axle may thread into one fork leg and have an axle clamp on the other.

Start retightening with the lower triple clamp pinch bolts, making sure the fork tubes are even. Then snug, but not tighten, the stem nut. Tighten the upper TC pinch bolts, then tighten the stem nut.

Finally, tighten the front axle. For the threaded axle type, tighten the axle bolt first, then the axle clamp. For twin axle clamps tighten one side then the other. Always tighten an axle clamp starting at the top fully tight, then tighten the bottom.

The whole point of this exercise to to ensure that the forks are relaxed, then aligned and tightened, and that the axle does not draw the fork bottoms together.

[IronFist]

Thanks 250. 4oz should do me ok. I'm lite. :D

I don't think I have the upside down forks. Can I still pour it in from the top with regular shocks? Bike on a box and front wheel supported. Springs won't come flying out will they?

[katoranger]

When you remove the spring caps be prepared for the to pop up. They will have some spring pressure on them.

Allen

[IronFist]

Thanks Man, Exactly what I wanted to know. :D

[katoranger]

If you keep some pressure on them they won't go shooting off. Also take the pressure off of the suspension. Put the bike up on a bucket or something so that the front wheel just hangs. This will take some pressure off the springs too.

Allen

[IronFist]

I'll use my trusty milk crate. I wasn't planning on doing it on the ground. Thanks for the safety advice. I'd would be ticked off to find that I wrecked something because I didn't do homework, or ask the right person the right questions. Thanks again and again. :) Mike N2r.

[mdsuave13]

ok i have the USD forks, i added about 5oz to each fork. It was really simple, took about 20 mins total. It was a 21 or 22mm wrench to take the fork caps off. Then i just gave a little bit of weight to the front of the bike and the fork caps raised out of the tubes. Dumped the ATF +3 into each fork and then bolted them back together. It was very easy, made a 100% difference in the way the front end works over the rough stuff. Before it felt really harsh like the suspension wasnt really doing anything, now it is MUCH smoother and actually soaks up the bumps more.

It is also not "as" notchy as before, almost completely gone. I would recommend it to anyone.

I also bled my front brakes and they work about 200000% better, i can actually stop now! (the fluid that came out looked so burnt it wasnt even funny) I should have bled them from the beginning.

[IronFist]

Couldn't believe how well my rolled once I bled the brakes. They were sticking in the front. Thought I might have to lube the piston or cylinder or something more involved. Nope, I used a see through tube and saw a piece of metal filing going past as I bled. Slapped it together and spun the wheel, woohoo. Now I pull the clutch and roll to the stop lights. :D

I got my ATF today, I'll put it in when it rains.
Switched to synth oil today. I think my bike found a horse somewhere. I expected it to run a little smoother, HA. I broke my land speed record. I'm doing 55->62 MPH. On the Highway. 400 series. On a 150cc. The new Honda cbr125 doesn't do much better than that.

When I got my bike I knew nothing, and I expected even less from my bike. Every time I rode it, and with every upgrade I did, it has impressed me every single time. Now I know slightly more than nothing, but one thing I'm sure about; I'm glad I got into riding. I'm not wasting my time still thinking about riding a motorcycle someday. I'm thinking about doing it tomorrow. :D

[fatboy250]

Now I know slightly more than nothing, but one thing I'm sure about; I'm glad I got into riding. I'm not wasting my time still thinking about riding a motorcycle someday. I'm thinking about doing it tomorrow. :D

Awesome, now you can get one of these for your plate. :lol: I may still get one for DAD

http://www.aeromach.net/shop/Biker4Life.jpg

[IronFist]

Sorry man, can't do that. Gotta keep the weight off the back end. Maybe if it came in balsa wood, I could paint it silver. :D Want a smaller seat. Lots of room for a bigger tank, and storage behind me. I'm always at the gas station putting in 5$. That only gets me to Canadian tire for oil and back (I have changed my oil more than I've needed to.) Then it's off to the gas bar again. :oops: I ride my bike kinda hard. I might have to ride at 60kph, but how fast I get there is my own business. :x

[Savage]

ok i have the USD forks, i added about 5oz to each fork. It was really simple, took about 20 mins total. It was a 21 or 22mm wrench to take the fork caps off. Then i just gave a little bit of weight to the front of the bike and the fork caps raised out of the tubes. Dumped the ATF +3 into each fork and then bolted them back together. It was very easy, made a 100% difference in the way the front end works over the rough stuff. Before it felt really harsh like the suspension wasnt really doing anything, now it is MUCH smoother and actually soaks up the bumps more.

It is also not "as" notchy as before, almost completely gone. I would recommend it to anyone.

I also bled my front brakes and they work about 200000% better, i can actually stop now! (the fluid that came out looked so burnt it wasnt even funny) I should have bled them from the beginning.

Hmm, maybe I'll have to get some shock oil and add 4 oz to the front. I don't have any sticking but I would like it alot firmer.
Just to refresh my memory, when you bled the front brakes did you have to remove the top of the res. and add in brake fluid? I mean did you drain it all out and add fluid in as you went?

[red2003]

Couldn't believe how well my rolled once I bled the brakes. They were sticking in the front. Thought I might have to lube the piston or cylinder or something more involved. Nope, I used a see through tube and saw a piece of metal filing going past as I bled. Slapped it together and spun the wheel, woohoo. Now I pull the clutch and roll to the stop lights. :D

I got my ATF today, I'll put it in when it rains.
Switched to synth oil today. I think my bike found a horse somewhere. I expected it to run a little smoother, HA. I broke my land speed record. I'm doing 55->62 MPH. On the Highway. 400 series. On a 150cc. The new Honda cbr125 doesn't do much better than that.

When I got my bike I knew nothing, and I expected even less from my bike. Every time I rode it, and with every upgrade I did, it has impressed me every single time. Now I know slightly more than nothing, but one thing I'm sure about; I'm glad I got into riding. I'm not wasting my time still thinking about riding a motorcycle someday. I'm thinking about doing it tomorrow. :D

You've come a long way Mike. No more paying stinkin' mechanics to watch 'em work. Now people can come watch YOU work on bikes. Awesome!!

[IronFist]

Thanks bro, I am trying. Doing the shocks tomorrow. Ambassador's sprocket should come in the morning mail. I will have 17/42 instead of the 15/46 that came stock. Sold a piece of art so I'm getting the D.I.D. chain next week.

I do have a question, about the back sprocket. I don't have the pliers for the compression ring which holds the rear sprocket in place. Can it be removed with a screwdriver or 2 needlenose pliers without breaking? Do you know the ring I need to remove? I can post a pic if I'm not being clear.

Savage as to the breaks, yes. I already had the clear tubing, heated one end to fit over the bleed nipple. I used a spice jar inside a mason jar. Filled the spice jar half way to conserve brake fluid, as it fills over from bleading, the mason jar contains the over flow. You have to keep the other end submerged to keep the siphon vacuume.

Pour in the new fluid, pump breakes, release the valve with a 10 mm wrench while squeezing the break, but don't squeeze all the way. Close the valve again. Then repeat. You only fill a few inches of tubing at a time

It took a while but once I had passed through more than half a bottle, and that piece of metal came out, it felt done. Huge difference for me, it rolls like a 10 speed bike now.

[ambassador]

New,
What I did with the compression ring/ C-clip... Loosen the 4 bolts holding the sprocket, took a needle nose pliers and got 1 side up and out of the groove then took a screwdriver and SLOWLY pryed it towards me, popped right off... BE CAREFUL as this is a vital part of your sprocket assembly and I'm not sure where to find another C-clip...
DID chain is a great upgrade, what length did you end up getting?

[IronFist]

Careful. Yes. I'll write that down. 8O
Seriously now, that is the only part that concerns me. Thanks for the tip of one side at a time, instead of trying to pull on both sides at the same time. I'm confident I'll do fine.

As for the chain. Like I said, I get the cash next week. I had 15/46 now its 17/46 going to 17/42. Overall the the total length of chain should remain the stock. Maybe a link shorter. The chain adjuster on the rear wheel has a lot of travel. When I get the 42 on I'll know for sure. That's why I waited to buy the chain. I wanted to sort out the sprockets first.

[IronFist]

Did the shock mod. Biggest difference is that the front end doesn't dive when I hit the brakes. A little stiffer. My bike could probably use shims.

[Savage]

You guys know how much fluid each tube holds? Debating if I should add 4-5oz of 30wt shock oil or drain the stock stuff and fill it up with only 30wt.
Thanks

[IronFist]

Savage I wrote a nice long reply then got knocked off the web,38667 bps :cry:
We need to drain and measure several bikes to get an average. All may not be the same when put together, Q control. 4oz was suggested, but I have a 150cc and don't know if the shocks are the same size as on the 200cc's. I took a calculated chance. Now the forks feel correct for me. I wanted to do it the easy way but get the same results. I'm satisfied, happy with the results. I put pics in the gallery page 8/N2r.

[molypod]

You guys know how much fluid each tube holds? Debating if I should add 4-5oz of 30wt shock oil or drain the stock stuff and fill it up with only 30wt.
Thanks

It really wasn't that bad of a job to drain and replace the oil, a couple hours on a raining day and a good excuse to hide in the garage :o)
450cc/mils is what I put in and what I am happy with.

[IronFist]

Got out and did some riding today. Found a street with poor man hole covers and rode over them for about ten minutes. The front forks were more firm, and controlling the handlebars was far easier. 50kph and they were some of the harder bumps I've been over. Way safer. Highway bumps much more smooth. I'm all for safe, especially when it costs 4$ for ATF.

Going from 15 to 17 tooth front, and a 46 to a 42 tooth rear, sprocket setup I got all the bonuses I was after. I have way more travel in all my gears. Again way safer, IMHO. City, stop and go, turning left at lights, every thing is just way more smooth. I got some boost on my top speed, but not what I thought I might get. It does take a little longer to get to 90kph than it did before. I think rejetting the carb might spit more gas and give more bang at higher revs. That, the chain and the swing arm greasing are next on my list, but it's a long list and all the cool stuff is at the end. :roll: N2r.

[Savage]

Got some 30 wt shock oil tonight. Hopefully I'll have time tomorrow to add 5 oz in tomorrow.

So just unscrew the top of the shocks, compress down on the front and the whole spring assembly will slide right out?

[AZ200cc]

So it looks like ATF is the way to go..Right? Would a tube height and diameter help to tell if out bikes have the same fluid amount?

[IronFist]

MHO I think it would help. But I got to admit, just adding 4oz, for me, worked great. Fells like I went out and spent a couple hundred bucks on my front end. :D

new2ride, did you just add 4 oz of tranny fluid to the existing fluid in the fork? could your briefly describe the process. I was wondering about this because mine seems a little mushy and if it easy to do, I'd like to try my hand at it.

[PorterzCustomz]

IMHO i'm not sure i would trust full synthetic fork oil in the upsideown forks. our chinese fork seals are not the best.

Yeah, a lot of people are under the impression that synthetic oil "leaks" by more then conventional. It has never been my experiance, or any one else I know for that matter, that I or they have ever seen this or heard of a situation where changing to synthetic oil caused a leak that wasn't already present to begin with. Synthetic oil molecules are not necessarily any smaller then dino oil, they are just more uniform in size since they are man made.

I had a car that was fine untill I put in synthetic oil and by the end of the 3K miles I started to get leaks all over the place!! Its true especially on older seals it can promote leaks when switching from dino, im not sure if you use syn the whole time what it does but then again no one would.

[a1a5115]

I changed my oil. I just took out the cap head allen on the bottom of the fork and the goopy looking oil drained out. Then I removed the caps on the top of the tubes. A word of warning....do them one at a time or support the bike. Those springs are under a lot of pressure. I couldn't get it back together without jacking the bike up. I got a knot on my chin thought LOL. Anyway I just put the plugs in the bottom and put in 8oz of ATF. ATF is just a type of hydraulic oil. Anyway the result was a somewhat softer, smoother action. Well worth the effort.

[PorterzCustomz]

Hi, I did not read all the replies but if its sticky you can use a rag to wipe WD on the exposed metal part then apply the front brakes and load up the suspension so the oil lubes up the rubber seals. You may have to repeat a couple times but I have done this before on new bikes to help them break in when they are a little sticky and it works great, nite and day difference. The rubber seals need to break in.