21'' wheel Spoke spec torque

[TheGammaGhost]

Hey chinariders! have a quick question, I tightened a few of my spokes on accident with out even thinking about the tire alignment, and it resulted in a slight wobble in my front wheel. I jacked my bike up and, and I've got it basically back to normal right now, but i want to know that the spokes aren't to tight or to loose before i put serious miles on.

Anyone know the spec torque pundage they should be at? and, if i went through and set them all to spec, should the tire be about perfectly aligned on the hub?

also, I have no idea about torque wrenches, do they only come in one poundage? and how much would one for this job cost, roughly?

Thanks!
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/8767/dsc00296dy.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/dsc00296dy.jpg/)

[SpudRider]

Hey chinariders! have a quick question, I tightened a few of my spokes on accident with out even thinking about the tire alignment, and it resulted in a slight wobble in my front wheel. I jacked my bike up and, and I've got it basically back to normal right now, but i want to know that the spokes aren't to tight or to loose before i put serious miles on.

Anyone know the spec torque pundage they should be at? and, if i went through and set them all to spec, should the tire be about perfectly aligned on the hub?

also, I have no idea about torque wrenches, do they only come in one poundage? and how much would one for this job cost, roughly?

Thanks!

I build custom wheels, and I don't trust torque wrenches. I doubt you will find a torque specification for any Chinese motorcycle, and it is just as well. ;)

Spoke torque wrenches are adjustable, and very expensive. Nevertheless, I trust my hands more than any torque wrench. ;) It is difficult to tighten a spoke too tight. Loose spokes are always worse than tight spokes. ;) Use the "ping" test to determine when your spokes are tight enough. Tap the spokes with a screwdriver, or another metal object, and listen for a metallic "ping." If the spoke sounds dull when tapped, you need to tighten it some more. :)

Spud :)

[TheGammaGhost]

Ahh, thanks a lot spud!

The "Ping" method worked great, a lot of mine were really loose. Got it all good to go now, thanks again!

[SpudRider]

You're welcome, Gamma. :) Thanks for posting the update!

Spud :)

[FastDoc]

I also use the 'ping' test.

There is a good tutorial on www.dansmc.com.

[TheGammaGhost]

Okay i have a problem.


My wheels spoke tensions are all messed up, to correct the original wobble i caused by tightening the loose spokes. I just tightened the opposing spokes. My Bike just doesn't ride the same, at like 20mph it starts to bounce up and down in the front end, and the balance is way off, like gusts of wind affect me way different.

If i can't figure this out, i can buy a whole new rim for around $100 off roketa.

How can i fix this, the whole rim is out of whack i think, the wobble is minimum, but there IS a slight wobble... How would i get all the spokes at EVEN tenstion. any and all help is appreciated, I can't ride like this!

Also, do bike shops do this kind of work, i think its called "trueing a tire".

thanks, ill wait for you guy's responces... :roll:

[FastDoc]

I'd just bring it to the shop and get it done and done safely.

[TheGammaGhost]

I'd just bring it to the shop and get it done and done safely.

Alright, was hoping that was an option.

I'll give em a call or just bring it in, and see if they can do it, i hope they can.

think it will cost more than a new rim? i hope not, ill find out when i talk to em.

thanks doc

[Wild_Alaskan]

A true up shouldn't be over $100 and you would still need to lace and true a new rim anyways.

Although aluminum rims do hold their true much longer than steel ones. :wink:

[FastDoc]

Most shops are $50-$75/hour and that should be much less than an hour...

[SpudRider]

If you can't find a motorcycle shop to do the job, a bicycle shop might also true your wheel for you. After your wheel is fixed, periodically tighten the spokes to keep the wheel true. ;)

You can also learn to true you wheel by reading information on the internet, and watching videos, such as the one at the link below. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4STaIqBGTTc

Spud :)

[SpudRider]

I forget which model bike you own, GG. However, a complete, DB-07 front wheel sells for $85, plus shipping at the Roketa website. ;)

http://www.roketa.com/product/parts_detail.jsp?partId=31846&partName=STEERING%20ASSEMBLY(5)

Based upon what the shop charges you, you might be better off to purchase a new front wheel, and learn how to true your old wheel yourself. You will then acquire the knowledge to true wheels, and have a second, spare wheel for approximately the price the shop will charge you to fix your current wheel. ;)

Spud :)

[TheGammaGhost]

update.

Found a local bicycle shop who says he will be able to do it for around 25 bucks, score!

[SpudRider]

Good for you, Gamma! :) Bicycle shops true bicycle wheels all the time, and bicycle wheels are more difficult to lace and true than motorcycle wheels. ;)

I bet the bicycle repairman will do a better job truing your wheel than a motorcycle shop. ;) After the wheel is repaired, keep the spokes tight, and the wheel will remain true. :) I strongly suggest you examine the spokes and tighten them every time you change a tire. You can also tighten the spokes periodically while the wheel is attached to the bike, but I check the spokes every time I change a tire, and that practice has proven to be sufficient. :)

Spud :)

[TheGammaGhost]

Okay, no luck still. I couldn't find the bike shop that emailed me the quote for 25, there shop is not where they said it was, and the number they gave was the wrong number. I brought it to this powersports shop, and they we're all ready to do it, until i had to tell them it was a Chinese bike. I hate how they refuse to work on these bikes.

The guy at the power sports place told me to buy a whole new rim, and from what WA said, they need to be trued once you get them. The guy at the power sports place said it should come trued.

I have one guy that told me to give him a call next week and he may be able to do it, but who knows if he'll be able to once he takes a look at it, some of the spokes are slightly stripped, but not to bad, you can still turn them. AHHHHHHHGGG. wish i would have NEVER touched my spokes!!!!!!

idk what to do, should i buy the new rim, and hope its trued, im so scared to mess up the spokes again. ARGGGGGGGGGGGG thx

[Weldangrind]

Two different terms are being used here. If you puchase a rim, you'll need to lace it to your hub and true it. If you buy a wheel, it is a hub and rim assembly that will most likely be true, although I'd check it.

[katoranger]

Check some more bike shops. I know the one I frequented in college also did alot of motorcycle wheels.

[TheGammaGhost]

Two different terms are being used here. If you puchase a rim, you'll need to lace it to your hub and true it. If you buy a wheel, it is a hub and rim assembly that will most likely be true, although I'd check it.

ahh yes , my mistake, when i said rim, i meant the full wheel assembly.

so it will probably be pretty aligned and true, cool, ill wait for more replys, If the full wheel comes trued ill probably just buy one, for $110 off roketa

[TheGammaGhost]

Check some more bike shops. I know the one I frequented in college also did alot of motorcycle wheels.

yeah i'm trying to get the guy who quoted me 25 buck's address and or phone number, see if he can do it for me. i did give him the tire size (2.75 x 21) but im not sure if he realizes its a motorcycle tire, he must i'm guessing?

[katoranger]

Same process. Doesn't matter the size of wheel.

[TheGammaGhost]

okay

well we'll see if that guy gets back to me, all else fails, ill buy a whole new wheel assembly, witch at this point, seems like an easy way out of this problem. seeing as i can't find people to work on it atm.

[Weldangrind]

I forget which model bike you own, GG. However, a complete, DB-07 front wheel sells for $85, plus shipping at the Roketa website. ;)

http://www.roketa.com/product/parts_detail.jsp?partId=31846&partName=STEERING%20ASSEMBLY(5)

Based upon what the shop charges you, you might be better off to purchase a new front wheel, and learn how to true your old wheel yourself. You will then acquire the knowledge to true wheels, and have a second, spare wheel for approximately the price the shop will charge you to fix your current wheel. ;)

Spud :)

Spud solved this part for you.

[Wild_Alaskan]

truing wheels isn't all that hard.

watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a25vC5zsf6A

your forks make a good truing stand, jack up the bike in some way that the front wheel is off the ground. I like to use a com a along attached to the handlebars. then just get two zipties and tape them to the fork tubes pointing towards the rim about 1mm off of it in the most neutral state of the wobble. then true as shown in the video.

Also it is possible to true rims with a small adjustable wrench, but is about 10 times as fast to use a spoke wrench of the correct size :wink:

[TheGammaGhost]

truing wheels isn't all that hard.

watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a25vC5zsf6A

your forks make a good truing stand, jack up the bike in some way that the front wheel is off the ground. I like to use a com a along attached to the handlebars. then just get two zipties and tape them to the fork tubes pointing towards the rim about 1mm off of it in the most neutral state of the wobble. then true as shown in the video.

Also it is possible to true rims with a small adjustable wrench, but is about 10 times as fast to use a spoke wrench of the correct size :wink:

Yeah , I think im going to give it another go in the next day or two, try to get it trued properly, and yeah, i need to buy a proper size spoke wrench, the tool I was using made it pretty difficult.

Worst comes to worse ill have to drop another hundy on the new wheel assembly, what im afraid of though, is ill buy the wheel assembly and they'll give it to me not assembled, Not sure if that's likely , but i have no idea.

thanks

[Wild_Alaskan]

A wheel should come assembled

[SpudRider]

I have bought several front wheel assemblies from Roketa. The wheels came fully assembled with bearings, and were trued to a high standard.

Spud :)

[TheGammaGhost]

I have bought several front wheel assemblies from Roketa. The wheels came fully assembled with bearings, and were trued to a high standard.

Spud :)

alright, great to know!

I'm going to try truing using WA's suggested method either today or tomorrow.

are bicycle spokes the same size as dirt bikes? i want to see about getting a spoke wrench, going to hit up a bicycle shop and see if they have one if they're the same size.

[FastDoc]

You'll need a motorcycle wrench. In a pinch an adjustable wrench or small spanner will work.

Just don't let a 'real' mechanic see you with an adjustable wrench.

The spoke wrench sold by Tusk broke on me second or third time I used it. You may want to order a Motion Pro or similar higher quality one.

[katoranger]

I bought one at a local dirt bike shop. Think its the motion pro brand.

Motorcycle spokes are much larger.

[SpudRider]

I have bought several front wheel assemblies from Roketa. The wheels came fully assembled with bearings, and were trued to a high standard.

Spud :)

alright, great to know!

I'm going to try truing using WA's suggested method either today or tomorrow.

are bicycle spokes the same size as dirt bikes? i want to see about getting a spoke wrench, going to hit up a bicycle shop and see if they have one if they're the same size.
What model Roketa do you own? If you buy a front wheel, you don't need to buy the tire and inner tube. For example, part #49 in the following link is a complete front wheel for the Roketa DB-07. The front wheel sells for $85, plus shipping.

http://www.roketa.com/product/parts_detail.jsp?partId=31846&partName=STEERING%20ASSEMBLY(5)

I have Honda, Motion Pro, and Tusk spoke wrenches. All of them work well. The Tusk spoke wrench is very sturdy, and I doubt I could break it if I tried. ;)

http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/images/prod/400/t/tus_08_spo_wre_set.jpg

http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/43/-/203/841/-/19537/Tusk-Spoke-Wrench-Set/tusk+spoke+wrench

Spud :)

[TheGammaGhost]

I have the Roketa DB-06, I can get the front tire for the same price here's the link.

http://www.roketa.com/product/parts_detail.jsp?partId=19400&partName=STEERING%20ASSEMBLY%285%29

i'll see about truing it tomorrow, if i fail, i'll probably buy the new wheel assembly to get it over and done with.

or i'll just buy the new assembly, and true my current wheel during the winter, and buy a different tire type to throw on it. I'll see about the truing tomorrow.

[SpudRider]

I have the Roketa DB-06, I can get the front tire for the same price here's the link.

http://www.roketa.com/product/parts_detail.jsp?partId=19400&partName=STEERING%20ASSEMBLY%285%29

i'll see about truing it tomorrow, if i fail, i'll probably buy the new wheel assembly to get it over and done with.

or i'll just buy the new assembly, and true my current wheel during the winter, and buy a different tire type to throw on it. I'll see about the truing tomorrow.
Yes, the DB-06, front wheel assembly is part #DB-06-200-05-58, which sells for $85, plus shipping. ;) The front wheel will come completely assembled with bearings, et cetera, and will be trued to a high standard. :)

If you buy a front wheel assembly and plan to use it as a spare wheel, you will also need to purchase a front brake rotor, part #59. You will also need to buy brake rotor bolts; however, I bought bolts at the local hardware store to secure my Zongshen brake rotor. ;)

Spud :)

[TheGammaGhost]

I have the Roketa DB-06, I can get the front tire for the same price here's the link.

http://www.roketa.com/product/parts_detail.jsp?partId=19400&partName=STEERING%20ASSEMBLY%285%29

i'll see about truing it tomorrow, if i fail, i'll probably buy the new wheel assembly to get it over and done with.

or i'll just buy the new assembly, and true my current wheel during the winter, and buy a different tire type to throw on it. I'll see about the truing tomorrow.
Yes, the DB-06, front wheel assembly is part #DB-06-200-05-58, which sells for $85, plus shipping. ;) The front wheel will come completely assembled with bearings, et cetera, and will be trued to a high standard. :)

If you buy a front wheel assembly and plan to use it as a spare wheel, you will also need to purchase a front brake rotor, part #59. You will also need to buy brake rotor bolts; however, I bought bolts at the local hardware store to secure my Zongshen brake rotor. ;)

Spud :)

alright spudster, i took the easy way out and bought the assembly, costed me a total of $110 (which I'm happy to pay, as long as it comes with all the bearings and such). ordered it on Sunday, haven't been charged, or received a tracking umber. Not sure if it's going to ship from china, or from there warehouse in cali.

How long did it take for you to get your assembly, spud? it's getting colder and colder, want to have my bike good to go! though i have been preoccupied with other things so patience isn't to much of an issue.

thanks!

[SpudRider]

I have the Roketa DB-06, I can get the front tire for the same price here's the link.

http://www.roketa.com/product/parts_detail.jsp?partId=19400&partName=STEERING%20ASSEMBLY%285%29

i'll see about truing it tomorrow, if i fail, i'll probably buy the new wheel assembly to get it over and done with.

or i'll just buy the new assembly, and true my current wheel during the winter, and buy a different tire type to throw on it. I'll see about the truing tomorrow.
Yes, the DB-06, front wheel assembly is part #DB-06-200-05-58, which sells for $85, plus shipping. ;) The front wheel will come completely assembled with bearings, et cetera, and will be trued to a high standard. :)

If you buy a front wheel assembly and plan to use it as a spare wheel, you will also need to purchase a front brake rotor, part #59. You will also need to buy brake rotor bolts; however, I bought bolts at the local hardware store to secure my Zongshen brake rotor. ;)

Spud :)

alright spudster, i took the easy way out and bought the assembly, costed me a total of $110 (which I'm happy to pay, as long as it comes with all the bearings and such). ordered it on Sunday, haven't been charged, or received a tracking umber. Not sure if it's going to ship from china, or from there warehouse in cali.

How long did it take for you to get your assembly, spud? it's getting colder and colder, want to have my bike good to go! though i have been preoccupied with other things so patience isn't to much of an issue.

thanks!
My Zong employs the same front wheel as the Roketa DB-07A. The DB-07A wheels I ordered were shipped from Roketa's California warehouse and were delivered in about one week. ;)

Spud :)

[TheGammaGhost]

ahhg, after waiting 4 days, i found an email to contact them. I asked them if they had any info on my order. got an email back saing

"I DONT HAVE THAT RIM"

So idk what to do at the moment, i wonder if another wheel will fit. i sent them an email asking if they know of another rim that will fit my bike. ahhg. I think my front axle is fatter than most.

Im going to try and true it my self tomorrow, also i'll try and call this one guy that said he could do it this week, a week ago.

[SpudRider]

That's too bad, Gamma. :roll: When truing a wheel, it's important to make small adjustments. ;) Don't try to correct the problem all at once. Many, small adjustments will true the wheel much faster, and more accurately, than trying to make large adjustments. ;)

Spud :)

[TheGammaGhost]

alright, the left and right wobble seems to be good. It seems to be a bit off up and down though, the zip ties will be touching the middle of the rim at most points, then at some spots, the zip ties touch a lower spot on the rim, closer to the spokes. causing what looks like a slight bounce in the rim, Any idea how to fix this??

Not going to do it, but i'm guessing tightening the section in witch the zip ties are touching the lower part of the rim, pulling the rim closer, thus fixing the difference.

[SpudRider]

You need to true for radial symmetry before you true for lateral symmetry. The same principles apply. If you tighten a spoke if will draw the rim nearer to the hub. If you loosen a spoke, it will push the rim farther from the hub. You want to loosen the spokes on the low side of the wheel first, before you tighten the spokes on the opposite, high side of the wheel. ;) Remember, small adjustments are best. Loosen or tighten the spoke nipples only 1/2 turn of so, then check your work. If you are making progress, make another small adjustment, and check again. Repeat this process until the wheel is true. :)

Spud :)

[TheGammaGhost]

You need to true for radial symmetry before you true for lateral symmetry. The same principles apply. If you tighten a spoke if will draw the rim nearer to the hub. If you loosen a spoke, it will push the rim farther from the hub. You want to loosen the spokes on the low side of the wheel first, before you tighten the spokes on the opposite, high side of the wheel. ;) Remember, small adjustments are best. Loosen or tighten the spoke nipples only 1/2 turn of so, then check your work. If you are making progress, make another small adjustment, and check again. Repeat this process until the wheel is true. :)

Spud :)

okay, so i should loosen the spokes where the zip ties touch the middle of the rim first, then i can tighten up the spot where the zip ties touch the lower part of the rim? i'll try to loosen them evenly to make sure it doesnt go to far off laterally.

[SpudRider]

You need to true for radial symmetry before you true for lateral symmetry. The same principles apply. If you tighten a spoke if will draw the rim nearer to the hub. If you loosen a spoke, it will push the rim farther from the hub. You want to loosen the spokes on the low side of the wheel first, before you tighten the spokes on the opposite, high side of the wheel. ;) Remember, small adjustments are best. Loosen or tighten the spoke nipples only 1/2 turn of so, then check your work. If you are making progress, make another small adjustment, and check again. Repeat this process until the wheel is true. :)

Spud :)

okay, so i should loosen the spokes where the zip ties touch the middle of the rim first, then i can tighten up the spot where the zip ties touch the lower part of the rim? i'll try to loosen them evenly to make sure it doesnt go to far off laterally.
I don't know how you are referring to lower and higher. ;) Loosen the spokes where the rim is closest to the hub first. Then tighten the spokes opposite them where the rim is farthest from the hub. Always true for radial roundness first. Only when you are satisfied with the radial roundness should you true the wheel for lateral roundness. Make small adjustments, then check your work. Repeat this process until the wheel is radially true. Then you can slowly adjust the wheel for lateral roundness. ;)

Spud :)

[TheGammaGhost]

You need to true for radial symmetry before you true for lateral symmetry. The same principles apply. If you tighten a spoke if will draw the rim nearer to the hub. If you loosen a spoke, it will push the rim farther from the hub. You want to loosen the spokes on the low side of the wheel first, before you tighten the spokes on the opposite, high side of the wheel. ;) Remember, small adjustments are best. Loosen or tighten the spoke nipples only 1/2 turn of so, then check your work. If you are making progress, make another small adjustment, and check again. Repeat this process until the wheel is true. :)

Spud :)

okay, so i should loosen the spokes where the zip ties touch the middle of the rim first, then i can tighten up the spot where the zip ties touch the lower part of the rim? i'll try to loosen them evenly to make sure it doesnt go to far off laterally.
I don't know how you are referring to lower and higher. ;) Loosen the spokes where the rim is closest to the hub first. Then tighten the spokes opposite them where the rim is farthest from the hub. Always true for radial roundness first. Only when you are satisfied with the radial roundness should you true the wheel for lateral roundness. Make small adjustments, then check your work. Repeat this process until the wheel is radially true. Then you can slowly adjust the wheel for lateral roundness. ;)

Spud :)

Nice, thanks for explaining this spud, I get it now!

I took it on a short ride, it feels right back to 100% again, i'm pretty happy with it, it was only slightly out of radial roundness. Though, i will check it again before i ride it again.

Looking at the wheel spinning, while riding, the wheel looks perfectly trued laterally, and the bouncing at low speeds that i had before, is gone. And the rotor no longer rubs against the brake pads. That zip tie method, WA suggested worked great.

Thanks for all the explaining you did SpudRider, i really appreciate it, and it seems to have paid off.

a shame that not all my parts are available through roketa.com though, oh well.

[FastDoc]

Good work!

You are well on your way to your online motorcycle technician certificate! :lol:

[SpudRider]

You're welcome, Gamma. :)

Spud :)

[Weldangrind]

TheGammaGhost, your patience and persistence is admirable. Thanks for following up.

[katoranger]

I am impressed. Truing wheels is a task that many won't attempt.

[wilserchinarider]

Excellent work! As you are learning with these bike there really is very little that you "can't" do on them if you are persistant. Don't be afraid to try and service the bike on your own...that'how competent mechanics are created.