Lost Title Workaround

[Weldangrind]

I posted this in the Good CL Finds thread, but it's better here. This is well worth a read: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=655441

[SpudRider]

Thanks for posting the results of your research, Weld. :)

Spud :)

[rickieh]

but it says you have to show a title to get the vt registration?

[Weldangrind]

Where does it say that?

[rickieh]

How do I register a motorcycle in Vermont when I purchased the motorcycle in another state?
You must provide DMV with the following: a completed Registration Application form #TA-VD-119 ( 424.7KB), the bill of sale, the title to the motorcycle,

[katoranger]

According the the link you do not need to be a Vermont resident and that bikes under 300cc are not titled. So you would get a registration paperwork in your name which your state should honor as a transfer since Vermont does not issue titles.

I sold my Honda Elite to a guy who registered it in NC after I had it register in GA. No title needed in GA, but NC does titles. Since he had the bill of sale and the registration paperwork from GA they registered in NC.

I had him check before he purchased it.

[katoranger]

Almost all of the our china bikes fall under the 300cc category. So no title needed. Just a bill of sale. I would call the Vermont DMV and ask about the tax amount and then send it in. Sounds like if it is not right they send it back along with your check.

I am copying this over from the the advrider site. This seems to be the most pertinent information.

Originally Posted by der_saeufer
OK people, read the Vermont DMV's instructions.

There are three rules in play here: bikes under 300cc are never titled, nothing 15+ years old is titled, but bikes over 500cc require a VIN verification even if they're not titled.

This leads to four possibilities:

1) bike under 300cc: not titled in VT, regardless of age. No VIN verification required, no title required. Send bill of sale, complete application and fees, get registration and license plate. An EX250 fits into this category regardless of age. You are reading this correctly: even a brand new EX250/CRF250L/etc. in Vermont is not titled.

2) bike >300cc but <500cc and 15+ years old: no title, no VIN verification. Send bill of sale, complete application and fees, get registration and license plate. This small category would apply to a 1976 KZ400, for example.

3) bike >500cc and 15+ years old: no title, but VIN verification required. Send bill of sale, complete application, VIN verification form and fees, get registration and license plate. Exception: if you have a VT registration for this bike in any previous owner's name, the VIN verification is waived. For this purpose, the previous registration can be expired. You do have to submit a copy in lieu of the VIN verification. A 1981 CB750 fits into this category.

4) bike >300cc and 0-14 years old: these bikes are titled in Vermont. You'll need a title to get anywhere if your machine fits this category, and if you have the title, you can probably go through your own state. Should you choose to title in Vermont anyway, you'll need a VIN verification in addition to the properly endorsed title from the seller.

Just in case anyone is wondering, for cars there are only two possibilities: either it's 15+ years old or it's not. Cars 15+ years old never need a VIN verification; that special requirement is only for motorcycles. Cars 0-14 years old are titled.

Also worth noting is that Vermont has started to bust people trying to register dirt bikes. If your bike was not originally manufactured for street use, prepare to be asked to show that the bike is street legal. They go by the VIN, so factory dualsports won't be an issue since they've always been street bikes in the eyes of USDOT.

Tax: Sales tax is based on the purchase price or NADA's New England price guide, whichever is higher. DMV will give book values over the phone. In my experience, whether they check the book value is hit or miss; they seem more likely to check on mailed applications than ones submitted in person. If you want to fight over the value, the appraisal has to be done by a Vermont licensed dealer, so if you're not close to Vermont, you're essentially left to pay up or shut up. Per ride4321 below, the minimum value for tax purposes is now $500, so you pay tax on $500 ($30 at the current 6%) if you paid less for the bike.

Inspection: Vermont does not suspend registrations for lack of an inspection certificate like Mass (and possibly NY?) does. If you ride in Vermont on Vermont plates without an inspection sticker, you can be cited. If you ride in a state without safety inspection, you're good to go. If you ride in a state other than Vermont that does have safety inspection, check your local laws. I believe NH and Maine have specific reciprocity with Vermont and could (in theory) cite you; in other states I have no idea--we don't have that shit out West and I don't live in Mass anymore.

Insurance: This is between you, your insurance company, and any cop that happens to stop you. Vermont does not use an insurance database to suspend registrations of uninsured vehicles like a substantial number of states do. Riding without insurance is illegal in 45+ states (including Vermont), though, so going without is an extremely bad idea. Get insurance. Your insurance company doesn't care where the bike is tagged.

Over and above all of this, it's generally illegal for a resident of a state to register his vehicles elsewhere. If you get stopped by your local gendarme with Vermont plates and can't talk your way out of the ticket for not registering your bike in your state, don't come crying to me about it. Check those light bulbs, people!

ETA: if you live close enough to Vermont to visit one of their DMV offices, just do that. They can do VIN checks there, and they hand plates over the counter. I've done two bikes, one by mail and one in person. I also registered a car by mail and then transferred those plates in person to a different car after some stupid Masshole flattened the first car. Every one of those vehicles was later registered in another state (Colorado for both bikes and the flattened car, Mass for the replacement car) with minimal hassle.


Quoting this so it appears again, and adding some more info. If you've done this recently, please correct anything I'm posting that is wrong.

I'm ready to submit for my old Suzuki, and since we know how much the taxes are, I thought I'd have a crack at the fees.

Vermont general DMV fee page


Registration

Payment Information

Please adhere to the following guidelines when mailing a payment (unless other instructions are on the form/application being submitted):

All payments must be for the correct amount.
Payment must be made in U.S. Funds only.
Submit a check or money order (do not send cash) payable to: Department of Motor Vehicles.
Payment by “bad check” will result in additional fee assessment of $20.00.
Acceptable payment methods-

Mailed transactions

Personal or business check
Money order
No 2-party checks accepted
Registration fees
I could not properly copy & paste the below info, so I'm typing it in.
Type of vehicle:
Motorcycle, gas powered, 1 year is $44.00, two years is $88.00.

DMV Mailing Address
Department of Motor Vehicles
120 State St.
Montpelier, VT 05603-0001

802-828-2000

So in summary, what I'm seeing is tax @ 6% (minimum value $500) + $44.00 for a gas-powered bike. For a minimum $500 bike, the total is $74.00.

Again, if I've missed anything here, please let me know and I'll update this post. My goal is to send one money order there and get what I need.

UPDATE
I thought before sending in money, I'd call to verify all they need is the $44 + tax (I'm used to like 10 fees and DMV add-ons here in FL). Calling the # I posted above sends you through a "press 1 for..." maze. If calling about registrations, it says your call may be answered by an inmate at one of our correctional facilities! There is also an option to talk to a DMV worker, so that is what I did. I spoke to Sharon and she verified for a 15+ year old over 500cc bike, the cost is $44 plus the tax. No other fees.

[rickieh]

I'm going the Vermont route, so let me get this striaght

Me>Them= Application,$74 money order, Visual Vin verification(photo)
time
Them>Me plate and registration papers?

[katoranger]

From what I see your bike will need the following.

1. Bill of Sale.
2. Title Application for Vermont.
3. Check for correct fees. Title fee and sales tax. (suggested you call and ask for valuation for tax amount)

Send above and wait for your Vermont plate and registration to come in mail.

Then after you get that you should be able to take the Vermont registration that would now be in your name and go your state tag office and get a title in your state. Or you can just continue to ride with a vermont tag.

I based my answer on category one.

1) bike under 300cc: not titled in VT, regardless of age. No VIN verification required, no title required. Send bill of sale, complete application and fees, get registration and license plate. An EX250 fits into this category regardless of age. You are reading this correctly: even a brand new EX250/CRF250L/etc. in Vermont is not titled.

[katoranger]

Make sure you keep us informed on how it goes. This sounds alot better than going the bonded title route.

[SpudRider]

Make sure you keep us informed on how it goes. This sounds alot better than going the bonded title route.
X2. :)

Spud :)

[rickieh]

Here's that catch.I have no bill of sale.only a certificate of origin?

[katoranger]

That should work. Does it have the seller on it? You could also just have a friend make up a bill of sale for you.

[rickieh]

it really is just a signed piece of normal paper isnt it?is it even notarized?

[SpudRider]

it really is just a signed piece of normal paper isnt it?is it even notarized?
That's correct. The bill of sale does not need to be notarized. ;)

Spud :)

[rickieh]

so can i just get a friend to write out a "bill of sale" and sign it?lol

[katoranger]

Yep. I have done it in the past.

[rickieh]

Well... I sent all my stuff in on April 2nd,now we wait.

P.S. does this mean we have to pay taxes in vermont now?

[katoranger]

Just the sales tax on the bike.

From what I have read you should get a response back in about a week and a half.

[Weldangrind]

rickieh, please keep us updated. I'm curious to learn if this process is still workable.

[rickieh]

Nothing so far

[katoranger]

I think I would be looking for something about Friday or early next week.

[rickieh]

nothing so far.

[katoranger]

I would be expecting something any day now. Have they cashed the check? From what I have read that is a good indicator that they accepted your application.

[rickieh]

it was a money order from my bank,i havent gotten ahold of the bank to check

[katoranger]

Well. Keep waiting. Today is 2 weeks. Should have a response soon.

[rickieh]

http://i45.tinypic.com/99m8at.jpg

[SpudRider]

Congratulations! :D

Spud :)

[FastDoc]

Ditto!

[Weldangrind]

Awesome! Your patience paid off. :D

[katoranger]

Congrats. A confirmation that this works. You have just made the task of registering a china bike that much easier.

This may need a sticky.

[SpudRider]

Congrats. A confirmation that this works. You have just made the task of registering a china bike that much easier.

This may need a sticky.
I agree. ;) I just created a "sticky" link to this thread at the top of this forum. :) Good work, gentlemen!

Spud :D

[Weldangrind]

Thanks for making it a sticky, Spud. I hope this tip helps many China Riders.

[rickieh]

if anyone has questions about what i did send them to me

[katoranger]

Would you make a post to the sticky with exactly what you sent in? Whatever you sent worked the first time. Many a chinarider has been shot down at the DMV and bonded titles cost more than the Vermont route.

[SpudRider]

The sticky is a link which points directly to this thread, Allen. Therefore, it would be great if Rickieh would post the information right here. :D

Spud :)

[katoranger]

That works too.

[moto120]

I have a question for rickieh or anyone who has any experience registering a china bike in Vermont.
I registered my Suzuki dirt bike there a few years back and the process was great.
I am familiar with the paperwork, etc.
My question is what year and model china bike did you register there.
Any issues?
I am looking to register my SSR250
Your input would be greatly appreciated,
Thanks, Ed B

[katoranger]

I think it was a pretty much new bike.

[Weldangrind]

I have a question for rickieh or anyone who has any experience registering a china bike in Vermont.
I registered my Suzuki dirt bike there a few years back and the process was great.
I am familiar with the paperwork, etc.
My question is what year and model china bike did you register there.
Any issues?
I am looking to register my SSR250
Your input would be greatly appreciated,
Thanks, Ed B

Can you tell us anything else about your China bike? Please show us a pic.

[moto120]

The bike is a 2013 SSR250R a chinese clone of the Honda CRF250X enduro.
The certificate of origin for a vehicle lists the manufacturer as Shandong Asiawing Motors Co, Ltd.
The bike is sold by SSR motorsports. They also sell a 200 and a 250 dualsport
bike.
The manufacturer is not on New Jerseys approved list, that is why I am looking
into doing the Vermont registration if possible.
When I send in the paperwork, should I include the MSO I have for the bike?
Thanks,
Ed B

[Weldangrind]

I wouldn't send the MSO. I would only send a bill of sale, completed application form and a cheque for the fees.

The real benefit here is that Vermont doesn't title bikes under 300cc, so you'll receive registration paperwork in your name, which New Jersey should honour. New Jersey should then issue a title to you.

[katoranger]

From what I see your bike will need the following.

1. Bill of Sale.
2. Title Application for Vermont.
3. Check for correct fees. Title fee and sales tax. (suggested you call and ask for valuation for tax amount)

Send above and wait for your Vermont plate and registration to come in mail.

Then after you get that you should be able to take the Vermont registration that would now be in your name and go your state tag office and get a title in your state. Or you can just continue to ride with a vermont tag.

I based my answer on category one.

1) bike under 300cc: not titled in VT, regardless of age. No VIN verification required, no title required. Send bill of sale, complete application and fees, get registration and license plate. An EX250 fits into this category regardless of age. You are reading this correctly: even a brand new EX250/CRF250L/etc. in Vermont is not titled.


Just bringing this to the current page. This should be the same for your bike too.

[pchitti]

Damn i wish i had known this 2 weeks ago. I would have been able to title my 76 cb750/ 81 gs550 custom hardtail. Could have bought a bike in better shape. Live, learn, register in Vermont.

[Weldangrind]

We're tryin' to spread the word.