TROUBLESHOOTING ZONG NOT STARTING UPDATES

[Pabesco]

good morning to all of the great people who have been trying over the last few weeks to help me get my zong back on the road.
i will today recheck all of the specs on the electrical system, redo the compression test, firstly without adding oil to the cylinder, then with adding the oil. i will post the results as soon as im done testing and will also list everything that was changed on the bike so far,
once again thanks to all

[iquitmyscene]

I have been having the EXACT same problems!! I've been following your posts since day one, really hoping we both get our bikes running!!

The only difference I'm having is that I now have a gas leak at the petcock (since last week when I drained the gas and cleaned the filter). I have yet to replace it, but I did use some blue RTV to seal it on for now.

[Pabesco]

Hopefully it's not too hard to find a new one to replace

I have changed the CDI, PICKUP COIL MAIN COIL, SOURCE COIL, FIRING COIL, SPARK PLUG, AND CARB.
I rechecked everything again as described in the tw200 service manual and here are the results
SOURCE COIL 674 ohms
PICKUP COIL 803 ohms
FIRING COIL PRIMARY 1.7 ohms
FIRING COIL SECONDARY 6.34 Kohms
SPARK PLUG CAP 10.90 Kohms

I did discover that the coil I was using did not test within specs so I changed it out with a new one that I had.
I checked the compression without oil in the cylinder and got the following
121PSI
I then checked the compression with a small amount of oil in the cylinder and got the following
125 PSI
I rechecked the carb and set the mixture to 3 turns out from fully closed
I rechecked the valves and got the following readings
INTAKE 0.07
EXHAUST 0.13

One major thing that I also noticed is that when I am trying to start the bike and I use the choke fully open, a loud knock can be heard somewhere in the engine. What can this be and what is my next step? I do use this machine to get around but it is not my main mode of transportation,
Thanks guys

[SpudRider]

Your electrical system checks out fine, and you are getting good spark. You also have adequate compression. Therefore, your problem must be either fuel, or air related. Both fuel and air are controlled by the carburetor.

Have you verified fuel is flowing into the carburetor? Turn on the fuel petcock for about five minutes, then turn it off. After the petcock is closed, open the drain screw on the carburetor, and see if fuel flows out the hose leading down from the float bowl.

Spud :)

[Pabesco]

Hey spud hope all is well. Yes I am getting gas flow. I did exactly as you said and I do have a steady flow of gas. Also I tried to start it again today and cranked for a while and it sounded like it wanted to start a few times but didn't. I notices a small bit of white smoke coming from the exhaust while cranking and I assume it's just the fuel being burnt by the spark, might be mistaken. I will try to each the mechanic again to help me trouble shoot some can hear the exact sounds that the engine is making. If there is anything else you can suggest I will be happy to try it. I also installed a new air filter and oiled it properly before installing.
Thanks spud.

[SpudRider]

The white smoke coming from the exhaust was the small amount of oil you placed in the cylinder during compression testing. I suggest you remove the spark plug, and place about ten drops of oil in the cylinder. Then, immediately replace the spark plug and try to start the motorcycle. You will see a lot of smoke come out the exhaust; don't worry about it. If the bike starts, ride it around the block, but stay close to home, and don't stop the bike anywhere else but at home. ;) If you ride somewhere and stop the bike, it probably won't start again, and you will be stranded. :(

Spud :)

[Wild_Alaskan]

try twisting the throttle between closed and 1/4 open while cranking.

[Pabesco]

Will try this in the morning.
Thanks Alaska, I did this a few times while trying to start, with the throttle 1/4 or fully open it makes no difference and sounds exactly the same.

[Pabesco]

With the throttle completely CLOSED the bike sounds like it wants to kick over but doesn't , with throttle wide open it rolls a lot faster but doesn't sound like it wants to start, also each time I use the choke , the engine sounds like it knocks then slows then cranks again, knocks then slows then cranks again. When I stop using the choke this stop .
Thanks guys

[SpudRider]

Did you try starting the bike immediately after adding ten drops of oil to the cylinder?

You should not be hearing knocking sounds from the engine. :(

Spud :)

[Wild_Alaskan]

try using the kick start instead of the e-start for a bt too, and try using some starting fluid. take the air filter off adn open the throttle and spray it in there for a solid seccond then try and start it. don't bother putting the filter on as it evaporates super fast.

never actually ride your bike with no air-filter, having it off in the shop is no problem.

I still think the the ignition timing is wrong, the knock you are experiencing could be pre-ignition from a spark way to early

also the motor shouldn't start throttle wide open, there is not enough vacuum to pull fuel. try going from no throttle to just cracking it open when starting to ensure the idle on the new carb isn't just set too low to run

also if it is possible to install the slide backward in that carb check that too.

[katoranger]

I think WA is on to something with the timing and the knocking.

[katoranger]

Spud, how it the timing set after having the top end off? I know that he hasn't had his apart, but I think the WA is on to something with the timing.

Does the zong have timing marks on the flywheel and the cam gear?

[SpudRider]

...also if it is possible to install the slide backward in that carb check that too.
The Zong has a CV carburetor, so it doesn't have a slide. Also, Pabesco said he installed a new carburetor from Zongshen America, so I doubt the carburetor is bad. :?

I still want Pabesco to put ten drops of oil in the cylinder, then immediately try to start the bike. ;)

Spud :)

[SpudRider]

Spud, how it the timing set after having the top end off? I know that he hasn't had his apart, but I think the WA is on to something with the timing.

Does the zong have timing marks on the flywheel and the cam gear?
If you remove the cam sprocket cover on the left side of the engine, you can see the timing mark on the cam sprocket. This mark should align with the mark on the top of the cylinder head. ;)

Other than moving the cam sprocket, there is no way to adjust the Zong's timing without making modifications to the engine. ;) The flywheel has a nub on it which triggers the pickup coil. This nub is machined/forged into the flywheel, and can't be altered.

The pickup coil attaches to the left crankcase cover with two bolts. You can't change the position of the pickup coil, either intentionally, or by accident, unless you slot the bolt holes on the pickup coil.

The flywheel is solidly attached to the crankshaft with a very robust woodruff key. Removing the flywheel is a difficult job which requires a flywheel holder, and a flywheel puller. I have never heard of any TW200 owner or Zong owner who has experienced problems with a sheared woodruff key.

I still want Pabesco to put ten drops of oil in the cylinder, and immediately try to start the engine. ;)

Spud :)

[Weldangrind]

Have you drained the fuel and tried fresh gas?

[Pabesco]

Hey guys, I did use the drops of oil then immediately replace the plug and try to start. I tried it 3 times and the bike sounded like it wanted to kick over but didn't. Each time I cranked the bike for a good period of time even to the point one time where the brand new battery ran down, some puffs of smoke came out of the exhaust each time it sounded like it wanted to start,
I did try the carb spray before directly into the air system but that didn't do anything, the carb is new and I set the mixture screw to 3 turns from completely closed. I tried kick starting until it felt as if my foot was not there anymore, I tried rolling down a hill and putting it into 2nd gear and tried it with 3rd gear but nothing,
Also spud with the timing I know about the mark on the cam gear aligning with the mark on the head and would like to know if this is supposed to be aligned when the piston is completely TDC , I will recheck this and if it's correct then I will be leaning more towards rings being the problem, if I'm incorrect please let me know
Thanks guys for all of the great suggestions and help with this.

[Wild_Alaskan]

Im thinking there is either a rag in the intake, a clogged exhaust or the flywheel has rotated making the ignition timing be wrong

The valve timing is more than likely fine since you have ok compression. The fact it has spark and wont pop at all on starting fluid is pretty impressive to me because Ive worked on motors that had such horrible compression they wont even begin to start on gas (don't leave saltwater in cylinders :wink: ) turn over for a bit on starting fluid. I would have at least expected it to knock or something.

[Pabesco]

Yes weld I drained all of the gas and got fresh gas from the station.
WA how would I check the things you mentioned? If I take the exhaust off completely that should be the way to check the clogged exhaust bit how do I check to see If there is something in the intake and how do I check the rotor position? I know every one is probably watching the Super Bowl now so I will check back with you guys later.
Thanks alot guys.

[Weldangrind]

I'm not interested in the Super Bowl. :lol:

You could remove the exhaust and try to start it, but that would make it very lean. If it runs, you've found your problem, so do not allow it to run for more than a few seconds.

[katoranger]

super what?

[FastDoc]

I watched it because Linda's daughter wanted the family over for dinner...

About the game I could have cared less. I just care about the family. 8)

[FastDoc]

Regarding the bike I am puzzled now. I'm afraid I don't have a lot to offer at the moment except I don't think there can be a blockage in the intake as that would have drastically dropped the compression.

[Wild_Alaskan]

could you tell me exactly what you did when trying to start with starting fluid?

you will need to take off the air filter and preferably hold the carb open and spray it straight in to the head then start at quarter to half throttle. spray lots in there

[SpudRider]

...Also spud with the timing I know about the mark on the cam gear aligning with the mark on the head and would like to know if this is supposed to be aligned when the piston is completely TDC , I will recheck this and if it's correct then I will be leaning more towards rings being the problem, if I'm incorrect please let me know
Thanks guys for all of the great suggestions and help with this.
Yes, remove the cam sprocket cover from the cylinder head. Then remove the crankshaft cap and flywheel cap from the stator cover. Next, rotate the crankshaft counterclockwise until the line on the cam sprocket aligns with the mark on the cylinder head. Then inspect the flywheel to make sure it is also indexed at TDC (top dead center).

Spud :)

[Pabesco]

Hey guys thanks once again for the great input and help. When I tried using the starter fluid I didn't open the throttle while spraying. I only removed the air filter cover and filter and sprayed some fluid down in there. Tomorrow morning I will try it again with the throttle open. I will also try starting with the exhaust loosened off.
I will firstly inspect the timing properly because if this is off nothing will make it start.
Thanks again to all of you for the assistance.

[SpudRider]

Hey guys thanks once again for the great input and help. When I tried using the starter fluid I didn't open the throttle while spraying. I only removed the air filter cover and filter and sprayed some fluid down in there. Tomorrow morning I will try it again with the throttle open. I will also try starting with the exhaust loosened off.
I will firstly inspect the timing properly because if this is off nothing will make it start.
Thanks again to all of you for the assistance.
You just installed an FMF silencer, didn't you, Pabesco? If so, I sure that silencer is not obstructed. The FMF Universal Spark Arrestor is a high flow silencer, and I can't imagine it would ever become obstructed. ;)

Spud :)

[Pabesco]

Also spud you said to inspect the flywheel to make sure it is TDC. are there visible markings on the flywheel or do I just remove the plug and check the position of the piston that way? I looked on the flywheel before and didn't see a mark but might have been looking for something too significant while it might be just a small slit or something.
Thanks.

[SpudRider]

Also spud you said to inspect the flywheel to make sure it is TDC. are there visible markings on the flywheel or do I just remove the plug and check the position of the piston that way? I looked on the flywheel before and didn't see a mark but might have been looking for something too significant while it might be just a small slit or something.
Thanks.
Yes, the flywheel has a mark for TDC (top dead center). Here's a photograph from the Zong Valve Adjustment Tutorial, located in the Zong Sticky.

http://chinariders.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6458

http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq146/spudrider/Valve%20Adjustment/Flywheel.jpg

How do you set the piston at TDC when you adjust the valve clearance? :?:

Spud :)

[Pabesco]

Yes I did just install an FMF spark arrestor. I notice the mark in the picture you sent. I might have not had my glasses on when I looked the last time. Lol. I'll be sure to have them on tomorrow when checking. I'll let you all know the timing results as soon as I'm done checking tomorrow.
Thanks again guys.

[Pabesco]

What do you guys think about it sounding like it wants to start when input the oil in the plug hole? Does this mean there is a problem with the piston? I have a new piton with rings and a new cylinder. Also the gaskets. So if I need to change anything I have the things I need. The only thing I don't have is a new head.

[FastDoc]

If an engine has a worn cylinder/piston and is losing significant compression there, oil will 'seal' the gap and briefly increase compression and may allow the bike to start as a diagnostic process.

If an engine has low compression (and yours does not, not much at any rate) I add oil to the cylinder. If the compression rises, the piston/rings are likely at fault. If it has no effect the valves/head seating area is likley at fault.

I don't think this applies to your case but it remains a good suggestion.

I hate to say it but I think you may be best served by bringing your bike to a Yamaha mechanic...

[Pabesco]

Sounds like ill have to find a machenic. Hopefully I'll find someone willing to work on it. The two really good motorcycle mechanics I know here don't want to bother with Chinese bikes and told me to try to sell it for anything I can get for it or just scrap it because in their opinion they Arnt worth the headache.

[FastDoc]

Look around. you'll find someone not predjudiced.

[SpudRider]

A Yamaha mechanic will recognize the engine and carburetor are virtually identical to the same parts in the currently manufactured, TW200 motorcycle. ;)

I wish you lived closer to us. We would be glad to stop by and help you fix the problem. :) However, it's difficult to troubleshoot problems when you live in the Bahamas. :(

Spud :)

[Pabesco]

Thank you very much guys, I'll keep you posted with any results.

[Pabesco]

Tried starting the bike again and it kicked over and ran (sort of ) for about two seconds. I noticed that when it sometimes sounds like it will start I will hear a very significant knock In The engine. Could this be the starter knocking o. The flywheel while its starting to kick over. Or is this a problem. I will try to do a video of it tomorrow and hopefully the sound would be totally audible.

[Pliskin]

Pabesco, sorry to hear about your troubles with Zong, but don't listen to mechanics. Find one who will work on your bike, but don't tell him it's Chinese. Don't lose patience it's maybe a small thing that you've overlooked. I learned few things from this post myself. I saw this video on youtube about compression testing, not that you have problem with compression, just thought that it could be helpful.

How to do a compression test on your engine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl0zRCvnkhg

[Pabesco]

Thanks alot pliskin. I'll be watching tonight. And I don't intend to get rid of my zong. Iv learned more about bikes over the last few weeks than I ever thought I would. I also learned about and acquires special tools that I can help others with. My second son has a quad that was dead for the past 3 years and with the knowledge learned here and the tools I now have his bike now runs.
So once again thanks to all of you guys that post questions and answers.

[Pabesco]

Hi Guys
I am including some pics of a device I bought to test the spark and with the distance of seperation shown here, the spark jumps with absolutely no problem.
I removed the carb and sprayed some starter fluids directly into the intake and tried to start it. It did start for a very short time then cut off but there was a fire also and the extinguisher I had did not work at all so I had to scramble to get a bit of water to throw on the engine. Needless to say some of the water got into the intake. I got the fire out and had the key switch off but the battery was still connected and after about 45 seconds while I was trying to clean the water off the engine, the engine tried to crank but very slowly. I quickly disconnected the battery terminal and put the battery aside which by the way was hot. I'm assuming that. Due to water getting into the engine and mixing with the oil it started to profuse a short in the magneto area. I removed the left crank case cover and cleaned out the bit of water I found in that area then tested the components with the multi tester and they tested within specs. I then drained all of the oil out and cleaned up the oil filter. Do you think there might be damage to anything because of the water. I won't be able to test until tomorrow when I get some more oil.
Thank you once again and hopefully I didny't cause more damage to the bike.
The only good news is that the bike did start.

http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj635/Pabesco/4262A357-F919-440A-8BCE-20017244C68F-5893-000005AFC9D9270B_zpsee5d1d97.jpg

http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj635/Pabesco/C96620B4-6095-4DE3-9E92-1FD4326FE16F-5893-000005AFD165D6BC_zpsbce4da6c.jpg

http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj635/Pabesco/4262A357-F919-440A-8BCE-20017244C68F-5893-000005AFC9D9270B_zpsee5d1d97.jpg

[Pabesco]

I put in new oil and checked the battery and everything else and all looks well. I sprayed a bit more starting fluid into he intake and the bike started for about two seconds but the carb was missing so it didn't stay started. I reinstalled e carb and tred to start it and it didn't start.
So if I'm correct it's a fuel or air problem just as spud said.
What do I check now.?

[Wild_Alaskan]

yep its definitely a fuel/ air problem then. Sorry about the fire, glad you were able to put it out without damaging the bike. I would check the float height of the carburetor, make sure the needle clip is present and it is not sitting in the jet.

[SpudRider]

Pabesco said he installed a new carburetor, so I'm betting the carburetor is in good shape, and properly configured. I suggest you have an experienced, Yamaha mechanic inspect the bike; he should be able to diagnose the problem very quickly. ;)

Spud :)

[Pabesco]

Yes it is a brand new carb. I have a mechanic coming to look at it on Sunday and we should hopefully be able to get it running. Thanks guys.
Just a quick question. Would the bike run if I completely remove the air filter system? I checked the intake by placing my hand over it while cranking and it's sucking really well.
I also checked the timing and it is right on target.

[SpudRider]

Yes it is a brand new carb. I have a mechanic coming to look at it on Sunday and we should hopefully be able to get it running. Thanks guys.
Just a quick question. Would the bike run if I completely remove the air filter system? I checked the intake by placing my hand over it while cranking and it's sucking really well.
I also checked the timing and it is right on target.
I'm glad you verified the timing is good. :) Do you wish to remove the foam air filter? I doubt you wish to try removing the entire air box; this is a difficult job and won't benefit you. ;)

Spud :)

[zingshoen]

you ve done most tests. if it starts with starter fluid, but chokes with the carbie, clean the carbie. all it needs is some shaving or shard or what not in the jet or some orifice. these carbies are easy to clean. take it apart gently, soak all parts in kerosene and if you have a compressor or a can of compressed air for cleaning computers you should eventually be able to see the sunlight through all the jets and openings. or u ll find something is loose or a misshaped gasket blocking sth.

anyway, since u have a spark, that s what i would do. fact that it s new doesn mean anything under your circumstances except that you won t need a gasket kit to reassemble it.

[katoranger]

The good news is that you have confirmed that compression and spark are good. Now just need to find the problem with fuel.

The carb is getting fuel. It possible that even with a new carb that something is plugged or stuck inside.

We saw this on alot of new bikes if the owner did not check the tank for manufacturing debris first. It would make it into the carb and eventually plug something.

Was there a problem with the old carb?

[Wild_Alaskan]

If you are removing it for testing purposes it will run without the air filter, just don't ride it without one as dirt down the intake can be fatal to your motor.

[FastDoc]

I like that spark tester gadget. :D

As per Dan's website I use ether VERY SPARINGLY and have my extinguisher close at hand.

[Pabesco]

I bought a new extinguisher today. Lol. I will not remove the entire air system. I looked at it earlier today and I agree with you spud it's a lot of work. And I definitely won't ride without the filter covered. I was just wondering if there might be something cracked or leaking in the air system, would this be a major factor in not starting? I will remove the carb and clean it just in case. The gasket (that's what I call it) that attaches the carb to the engine, if this is damaged will it cause the bike to not start ?just wondering.
Thanks guys.

[zingshoen]

if you get way to much air and way to little fuel the bike won t start. take it apart, clean and reassemble after inspecting the parts. if the carb or airfilter is attached by a rubber shoe with a hoseclamp, don t tighten it all at once, tighten it to lightly firm and then let it sit for 20 min before making it firm but not tight. else you ll break the rubber/plastic shoe.

[FastDoc]

An air leak between the carb and the engine can cause problems like poor idle and overheating but I would not think a hidden leak too small to be evident would keep the bike from starting. A leak between the carb and the filter would not affect it's running at all but would introduce unfiltered air to the motor. That would be bad for operation but would not affect starting.

[katoranger]

Check for proper choke operation. I am thinking that with the warm temps you don't really need it. Unless it is stuck closed and flooding the bike.

[Pabesco]

When I reinstall the carb at any time I tighten the clamps really tight thinking they need to be tight. Hopefully I didn't damage them. Good to know that a slightly leaking connection won't cause the bike not to start but would idle bad.
I will take it apart and clean properly then reassemble. And try again.
Thanks again guys.

[SpudRider]

I really don't think you need to disassemble the new carburetor. ;) However, if you do take the carb apart, make sure you get the diaphragm seated properly in the top of the carb before you re-attach the top cap. :? It's very easy to put the diaphragm together improperly, and then your bike surely won't run properly. :( If you're not sure of the problem, read the threads in the Zong Sticky, and check the threads in the TW200 forum. ;)

Spud :)

[Pabesco]

Thanks spud. I was sure to take extra care in reassembling the carb especially the diaphragm. I have the best motorcycle mechanic in town willing to look at it for me tomorrow morning. He says he's familiar with the bike and will get it started tomorrow.
Thanks guys and I will post any progress

[Pabesco]

Hey guys. Hope all is well. I took the bike to the mechanic that most of our cyclists gomtonfor repairs. He's the best here by far according to everyone I've spoken to.
"I still think the the ignition timing is wrong, the knock you are experiencing could be pre-ignition from a spark way to early"
This is a quote from WA and this is exactly what the mechanic said after checking the bike for about 5 minutes, he says the woodruff key is most likely sneered and caused the flywheel timing to go off and produce a pre-ignition spark. He showed me exactly what was happening and heard the knock just before the bike tried to start, it would start for a very short time but sound really strange, I thought it sounded that way because I tested with the carb off,
He did another test and showed me that when the bike tried to start , at that very moment. It would blow the carb off, he only had the carb connected to the intake, the air filter side was loose, and we had lite of gas being seen, so he said its definitely not a fuel problem.
I had to leave the bike because there were many others before me but was told to collect it on Monday.
Just wanted to say thank you to all of you for the help testing, troubleshooting and learning, I now know my bike really well and most likely can fix most problems that might occure with it in the future.

[katoranger]

Sounds like you will be back riding in a couple days. WA knows his stuff. I only pretend. :wink:

[SpudRider]

Quite frankly, I will be very surprised if the woodruff key is sheared. ;) If the ignition timing is bad, I suspect either the the cam chain is stretched, or the automatic, cam chain tensioner is damaged.

After you drain the motor oil, unhook the wires from the stator and pickup coil. Then remove the left crankcase cover to inspect the flywheel. If the woodruff key is sheared (I'll be amazed), the flywheel will turn on the end of the crankshaft. If the flywheel is solidly attached to the crankshaft, the woodruff key is in good condition.

You should then remove the automatic, cam chain tensioner, and inspect it according to the directions in the Supplement to the TW200 Service Manual. :)

Spud :)

[SpudRider]

However, if the flywheel wiggles on the end of the crankshaft, the woodruff key is probably damaged. I consider this very unlikely, but anything is possible. In this case, you will need to remove the flywheel.

In order to remove the flywheel you will need two special tools. You will need a flywheel holder, and a flywheel puller. You will also need a new woodruff key, and any other parts which are damaged.

Check first to see if the flywheel wiggles on the end of the crankshaft. If the bolt on the end of the flywheel is loose, you might only need to tighten it.

I am beginning to suspect you might have problems with the valve train in the cylinder head. :roll:

Spud :)

[Pabesco]

Thanks spud. I can't check anything now because the mechanic is doing the work now. I never checked the flywheel because I didn't have any of the tools so I only went as far as I could then took your and others advice and took it to a mechanic. I will be there on Monday when he works on it so I can see exactly what the problem is and I will be sure to update you. Never even heard of the valve train in the cylinder head before so this tells me that I still have alot of learning to do.
Thanks once again spud. Have a great evening.

[Wild_Alaskan]

There are two timings to worry about. The valve timing is probably correct, this will usually only de-time if the cam chain tensioner fails and would also result in very poor compression readings and possibly piston-valve contact. Since it has good suction when you put your hand over the intake i bet on this being good.

The ignition timing is what mechanic believes is wrong which would mean the flywheel has rotated.

Spud what would a stretched cam chain have to do with ignition timing?

[SpudRider]

There are two timings to worry about. The valve timing is probably correct, this will usually only de-time if the cam chain tensioner fails and would also result in very poor compression readings and possibly piston-valve contact. Since it has good suction when you put your hand over the intake i bet on this being good...
When the intake valve recessed into the valve seat on my Zong, I still had good compression readings. However, the bike was very difficult to start, because of the limited valve travel. ;) Threrefore, I wouldn't rule out problems with the bike's cylinder head.

...The ignition timing is what mechanic believes is wrong which would mean the flywheel has rotated.

Spud what would a stretched cam chain have to do with ignition timing?
I've never heard of a TW200 having problems with the woodruff key. ;) I have had my flywheel off several times, and the woodruff key for the TW200/Zong is very robust. With the low mileage Pabesco has on his bike, I would be very surprised if the woodruff key is damaged. However, anything is possible. ;)

If the timing chain stretches enough it will affect the valve timing, even if the cam chain tensioner has not failed. ;) I'm not so sure the ignition timing is at fault. Let's see if the mechanic can fix the problem; I certainly hope he does. If the timing is bad, I suspect bad valve timing, probably caused by a bad, automatic, cam chain tensioner. ;)

Spud :)

[SpudRider]

Incidentally, I don't find any fault with your troubleshooting, WA. Indeed, I always appreciate your willingness to help the members of these forums. :) My reasoning is based upon my personal experience working on my Zong, and years of research reading about this engine on the Yamaha TW200 forum. ;)

If ignition timing is the problem, the woodruff key is probably damaged, unless the pickup coil was mounted improperly. The latter situation is very unlikely, since the pickup coil mounts with two bolts, and no adjustment is possible without modifying the mount. ;)

Spud :)

[Pabesco]

The valve train, does that come with a new head or is it sold seperately? I'm about to order some more spare parts and was wondering if I should order a new head the same time Incase something goes wrong. I'm also going to reclean the old carb and put it in storage with the rest of the spare parts. Is it alright to just bubble wrap it then put it away or should I put a few drops of oil or grease anywhere to keep it secure?
Thanks

[Pabesco]

This forum is now the best thing iv ever read. I was told by my physics teacher before that The progress of mankind itself was and is still being fortified by great minds thinking of any and all possibilities and debating where to go from here. Iv learned over the years dealing with many situations that you would find that there are no wrong answers, its just that at a particular time, one conclusion fits best for the problem at hand. I really hope that I can gain the experience and knowledge that you guys have and be able to pass it on to others.
Thanks again and I will be reading as much of the old and new posts on the various problems as I can.

[SpudRider]

The valve train, does that come with a new head or is it sold seperately? I'm about to order some more spare parts and was wondering if I should order a new head the same time Incase something goes wrong. I'm also going to reclean the old carb and put it in storage with the rest of the spare parts. Is it alright to just bubble wrap it then put it away or should I put a few drops of oil or grease anywhere to keep it secure?
Thanks
You're welcome. :)

No, I wouldn't order any more parts unless the mechanic determines you need them to repair your engine. ;) Please let us know what the mechanic tells you. :)

Wrapping the carburetor in bubble wrap is sufficient to store it. :)

Spud :)

[Pabesco]

Very happy to say that my bike runs again. Once again you were absolutely correct spud. It was not the woodruff key. It was a brand new FAULTY pickup coil (the one that comes with the stator coil) that I ordered from tbtrends in china.
At first I refused to believe this was the problem until the mechanic insisted I go home and get the old coil and he installed it and the bike started right away, I tested the coil again and it's still testing within specs but it won't start the bike. ,
Just glad to know I'm back on the road again.
Thanks to everyone that help me to troubleshoot and learn so so much during this process, I know my machine a lot better than I ever imagined
When signing on to this website at times it asks the question "are you human" and I answer yes, now I'm wondering if the mighty spud is human or some kind of zong super computer, lol.
Thanks guys

[SpudRider]

That's wonderful, Pabesco! I'm very glad your Zong is running once again! :D

I have heard reports of failed pickup coils for the TW200. ;) It's disappointing, but not unheard of, to get a bad part from the factory. :roll: However, through all your trials, you have learned a lot about your Zong. :)

Spud :)

[FastDoc]

Wonderful news!

BTW I have met the Great And Powerful Oz, I mean Spud, and he is indeed human. A fine one at that. :wink:

[Weldangrind]

Yaaayy!! The Zong rides again! :D Was the service from the mechanic very costly?

[zingshoen]

great that you got it worked out. sometimes it is like that, chasing one s own tail until a solution comes to pass. it s not totally rational. waiting for a while or getting another opinion are excellent options when troubleshooting gets out of control. :D

[FastDoc]

More than once in the past I have been deceived by faulty new parts. :?

[Wild_Alaskan]

So if the original pickup was good, I wonder what the original problem was...

[SpudRider]

So if the original pickup was good, I wonder what the original problem was...
It's hard to tell. Too many parts were replaced, without testing.

Spud :)

[Pliskin]

Once again you were absolutely correct spud. It was not the woodruff key. It was a brand new FAULTY pickup coil (the one that comes with the stator coil) that I ordered from tbtrends in china.
Spud knows Zong better than mechanic. :lol: When it comes to Zong nobody can give you a better dignostic than Spud, very lucky to have him on this forum. Very happy that your Zong is back on road again. That is very dissapointing that new part was faulty. So even new parts can't be trusted. I hope you were just unfortunate to get that part. Are you getting a new part from tbtrends?

[Pabesco]

The mechanic was a friend of mine and I asked him to let me do the work and he did so in the end it only cost me $50 as a gesture of thanks for the education. I think the original problem was the stator coil, and the plug cap, those were the only parts that I tested and were not within specs (actually didn't get a reading at all from them)
The main thing I guess I did wrong was not testing with the multimeter from the start due to the fact that I didn't have one so I just changed all of the parts for the ignition system, if I had the multimeter and used it from the beginning I would have discovered that the problem was the stator coil and plug cap and would not have changed anything else , and maybe the bike would have been back on the road from weeks ago,
Lack of tools and not following troubleshooting procedure can cost you a lot of money and time
Thanks again guys for the vast amount of help and knowledge.
I was also able to help another friend get his 650 back up and running by troubleshooting his problem that turned out to be his ignition switch, so what I've learned here will help me on a lot of other bikes,
Thanks again

[katoranger]

The price of the parts and tools is far less than tuition and you will be able to use them again.

[Weldangrind]

I think it's really cool that you were able to help your friend troubleshoot his bike; good for you! 8)

[FastDoc]

The price of the parts and tools is far less than tuition and you will be able to use them again.

Darn good point. :wink:

[SpudRider]

The price of the parts and tools is far less than tuition and you will be able to use them again.
You're welcome, Pabesco. :) The great American, Benjamin Franklin, has a famous quote.

"If you empty your purse into your head, no man can take it away from you. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest."

Spud :)

[FastDoc]

Franklin rocked. My favorite Founding Father. He had more than little in common with King David. :wink:

[katoranger]

The tuition here is free. :lol: Of course we are not accredited.

[SpudRider]

The tuition here is free. :lol: Of course we are not accredited.
Accreditation is highly overrated. ;)

Spud :)

[FastDoc]

Lack of accreditation is how we keep tuition down.