Sukida SK125-2 Pharoah

[JRH]

Hi Guys,

I'm based in the UK, but UK/EU spares backup for these things just does not exist!

I got a 2008 Sukida 125-2 Pharoah, bought for peanuts, so it's worth spending a few bucks putting right. However......

It's a clone of the late 70's/early 80's Honda CG, and I've put a few CG parts on it already (Drive rubbers, Chain, Sprocket, front brake cylinder, headstock bearings), but the front brake disc (Rotor?) is warped beyond all recognition. I've sent it off to a supposed specialist, and had it trued and it has come back more warped than before! I need to find another, but I cannot find anything close to it.

At the spindle end, it's Honda CG ES-4 (centre bore, fixing holes, offset etc all match up), but the overall diameter of the CG is 240mm, where as the Sukida is 202mm. I've borrowed a brake caliper from a local instructor who has Brazilian built CG-125's on his training fleet and offered it up to the Sukida (with the hope that if it fits I'll fit a bigger disc), but the mounting holes on the bracket are just a teensy bit out (in relation to the holes on the fork leg)... enough for it to be a problem and not fit.

Now, I know that the Chinese NEVER design their own stuff, they prefer to rip off others existing designs. But what have Sukida ripped off on this model? I've spent days trawling the web looking at pictures, firing off emails to vendors and asking for dimensions etc only to be told no dice.

Without a replacement disc, the bike is effectively a write off, as it's dangerous in it's current condition (it will snatch and lock the wheel under normal braking). I've spent too much money now to warrant junking the bike, else I'd have it stripped and on ebay already!

Help!!!!!

[katoranger]

Do you have any pics? Thinking that they may have used a rotor from a different honda model.

[JRH]

I do indeed have a pic....

I've been thru most of the Honda range, even the early 80's CB125 etc. Race type stuff like the CBR-125 is out, as they have the floating type rotor.

I'll try and find the pic - I took one when I got it back last night.

Can you attach on this forum?

J

[JRH]

This is what I currently have:

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u668/jay_hill1/DSC_0125_zps945a9a38.jpg

The bike is a carbon copy of this (1981 CG), except for the brakes are on the right side of the forks, and the disc looks bigger on the CG!


http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u668/jay_hill1/81cg_zps71c8eb19.jpg[/img]

[FastDoc]

That Honda is interesting in as much as it has an enclosed chain. You don't see many bikes like that. Last one I recall seeing may have been a Jawa.

[JRH]

The Sukida had a chain guard identical to that.... until I swapped the chain for a much chunkier CG type and had to bend the upper guard out a bit to stop the edges of the chain rattling on it! As a result, the bottom guard will no longer fit!

This is in "as bought" condition... has sat outside for about 2 years!

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u668/jay_hill1/suckyda_zpsf19ca99d.jpg[/img]

[FastDoc]

I love that classic Honda look. I have a 1972 CB175 and in my eyes the early small Hondas (and clones, apparantly) are lovely bikes.

[JRH]

The Sukida had a chain guard identical to that.... until I swapped the chain for a much chunkier CG type and had to bend the upper guard out a bit to stop the edges of the chain rattling on it! As a result, the bottom guard will no longer fit!

This is in "as bought" condition... has sat outside for about 2 years!

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u668/jay_hill1/suckyda_zpsf19ca99d.jpg[/img]

[FastDoc]

Are the passanger pegs bolted to the swingarm?

[JRH]

Yep...

They sure are!

J

[FastDoc]

That's gotta be an odd (and maybe dangerous) sensation for the passenger! :lol:

[humanbeing]

This? http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=16170654283
Ask the importer (learnerlegal.com) for quotation. | Indonesian Honda GL series seems using the SAME disk 45121-KG2-??? http://detail.b2b.cn/trade/600/70/01/600700154.htm | The 80s GL145 ancestor: http://www.lnmoto.cn/bbs/thread-415209-1-1.html

[JRH]

Hi Humanbeing,

The first item looks to be exactly what I need, having pulled the dimensions out of the Chinese text on the site. I'll drop learnerlegal.com a mail with that link, and see what they can do.

Now I have a Honda part number for the GL-145 disc, I'll make some calls Monday to my friendly local Honda agent, and see if they can get some further info on dimensions. It does look slightly different - in the same way as the later CG, so I'm suspecting it may be slightly bigger, probably 220mm. I ran the page thru google translate and couldn't pick up any sizes.

And Fastdoc, I'd say the rear pegs on the swingarm would be a bit of a strange sensation.... but here in Limeyland you aren't allowed to carry a passenger on a 125cc unless you have a full bike license - and if you have a full bike license, then why do you want to ride a 125cc? lol I do have a full bike ticket (900cc Triumph Trident), but have this one for the missus to zip about on and get some road hours in whilst learning to ride a big bike. Having said that, 2 up on a 125cc would be pretty scary, as they aren't the biggest or most powerful thing in the world - I wouldn't want to try it, regardless of where the rear footpegs are! :-)

J

[katoranger]

The ct70 passenger pegs are mounted to the swingarm.

[Weldangrind]

Welcome JRH!

Since you've come this far, have you considered swapping a CG125 front end on?

[JRH]

I have considered grafting a CG-125 front end on...... at great depth!

But it's a case of trying to find an intact one! Most of the bikes that are being junked over here all have smashed front ends!

There is a back street bike engineer semi locally who has a whole emporium of used/old/uncommon stuff from bikes he has stripped over the years. I spoke to him yesterday and he told me to bring the wheel & disc over and leave it with him for a couple of days. If he hasn't got anything, then we will engineer something!

Proper, old school engineering :-)

J

[JRH]

Well, I've heard back from www.learnerlegal.com - Having sent the link to the Chinese site, all the dimensons & a picture of the disc on the wheel.

Can't help, sorry!

More like can't be bothered!

Going to get in touch first thing Monday AM with the guys who have supposedly jigged it and straightened it. They have done something with it, as the disc and hub are clean.... but if they have straightened it it's either pinged back out of shape, or they have got the tea boy to do it!

Who would have thought that something as simple as a circular bit of metal would cause so much hassle?

J

[Weldangrind]

In the interest of proper, old school engineering, can you fabricate a caliper bracket? If so, you could install a CG125 rotor and use your stock caliper or the CG125 caliper.

Another option is to have a CG125 rotor turned down on a lathe to match the diameter of your original rotor.

[JRH]

That's what I'm thinking....

Machining down a CG rotor is not an option, as they are 240mm outside diameter, versus 202mm of the Chinese. The friction area is roughly the same on both rotors, so if I machined down a CG unit, there would be no friction surface left - just the spokes!.

I've asked my friendly neighborhood bike instructer to drop the CG caliper back to me, so I can do some further investigation. There is only 5mm difference in the hole centres of the fork to caliper bracket. If I can get a CG bracket, there is a chance there will be enough meat there for me to slot one of the holes out a bit (just need to take into account how I'm going to fix it - the caliper bracket holes are threaded, if I can get a nut on the back all well and good), or, take the caliper bracket to a friend of mine, and have him fabricate another one up, but make it that little bit longer on the one edge to accomodate the wider hole centres. If anyone can do it, Harvey can - he repaired the frame of my other halfs GS-650 Katana a couple of weeks back, and you couldn't see where he had done it!

I'll drop the wheel and rotor off to "Ole Russ", and see what he can do first.... if not, then it looks like it will be the extra fabrication & CG setup.

There IS light at the end of the tunnel - but there are quite a few twists and turns before we get to it!

Thanks,

J

[Weldangrind]

It'll be great if the gentleman from the bike wrecker / breaker can find a suitable replacement, especially if you know what it's from. That will make rotor replacement easier down the road. If not, then the fabricated caliper bracket and CG125 rotor sounds good.

[JRH]

This is the problem we have....

I have not been able to find out what the rotor is originally from! I've spend days trawling google images, looking at pics of just about every small bike from the mid 70's onward, and nothing even comes close (apart from the GL-145, but the local Honda agent laughed at me when I gave them the part number!). Nothing comes close!

The hub end is definately identical to a CG, as I have one here to measure against, but it's just the diameter!

I think it's nigh on impossible that the Chinese have actually designed something unique - they always tend to copy everybody else, save on design costs :-)

We'll get there..... the weather is getting better, and the missus wants to get out and get some road time in. Seeing as her GS-650 is still a bare frame, I'm under pressure with the 125!

J

[zingshoen]

xl185s pegs were mounted on the swingarm, too

[katoranger]

xl185s pegs were mounted on the swingarm, too

I road one, but never looked at the rear pegs. I actually removed the passenger pegs from my lifan.

[JRH]

I would remove the pegs on the Sukida, but the UK vehicle test states that if there is a seat for a passenger, then the footrests have to be present - regardless of whether or not you are actually allowed to carry a passenger as per the terms of your license!

Have dropped the wheel and rotor off with Russ.... he says to give him a few days, and he will come up with a "cunning plan".

Sounds hopeful!

J