2006 ZS250GS

[m0t0]

Hello Everyone!! I'm fairly new to the forums and am hoping i can get some wisdom. I picked up a 2006 zs250gs a few months back. It has just over 2000 miles on it. I cannot get it to start for the life of me. (common problem right!) I can tell you that i have spark, it seems week to me but it is there. It will shock me if its not grounded, but its not like some lawn mowers that will make your teeth chatter. I'm guessing the bike had been sitting before i got it. I tore down and cleaned the carb. I also drained and dried the tank. I seem to have good compression. I cover the spark plug hole with my thumb and my thumb will be blown off when i crank it over, but i can also press hard and my thumb will not come off. I also dont seem to have any air moving out the exhaust when i crank it over. I have tried charged the battery that was on it, and have tried a known good battery from another bike with no change. One other strange thing the battery light is always on. Normal or not? Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

m0t0

[Weldangrind]

It sounds like you have a compression problem, because you should not be able to hold your thumb over the hole. My guess is that one or both of the valves are too tight.

[FastDoc]

I agree with Weld.

Indeed this looks like Page 1 out of my book of adventures with the same bike.

Before you move on adjust the valves and check the compression with a gauge.

If you have a compression issue it's not worth pursuing other issues until that's resolved.

I spent about $150 on a new stator, coil, and pickup and CDI for mine before I discovered the problem was compression.

[m0t0]

Thanks for the replies. I will pick up a compression tool tonight and let you know. What is entailed in adjusting the valves? I vaguely remember seeing that i have to pull the motor to accomplish this?

Also, what should the compression read at?

Thanks Again

[FastDoc]

For the valves check out Spudr Rider's excellent tutorial. This will directly apply to your bike. :D

I would estimate normal compression for your bike to be about 160-175. Anything above 150 is probably fine. Anything under 100-125 could keep it from starting.

[m0t0]

Is this the article your referring to?

http://chinariders.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6458

[FastDoc]

That's it. The process should be identical to your bike.

[m0t0]

Well it looks like you two nailed it on the head. I picked up a compression tester from HF. When i tested it the highest reading i got was approx 32 psi. I will work on getting the valves adjusted. Do you by chance know what the clearance should be at for this bike?

Thanks,
m0t0

[FastDoc]

The head should be identical or very nearly so to the 200cc model so I would go with whatever numbers Spud used in his post.

I hope it is just a tight valve.

[FastDoc]

BTW did you check the compression with the throttle wide open and the choke off (open)?

[m0t0]

BTW did you check the compression with the throttle wide open and the choke off (open)?

Yep throttle wide open and no choke on.

[FastDoc]

Well, you did it right... :wink:

[m0t0]

I feel a bit defeated at this point. But, "Never give up, Never surrender!"

I adjusted the valves according to the post i linked above and re-tested the compression. There was an improvement, but not much of one. I'm now getting roughly 40 psi instead of 35 psi. Any recommendations on where to look next?

Thanks,
M0t0

[FastDoc]

A compression problem such as this can only come from the piston/cylinder or the head. Possible culprits include piston or ring damage, valve seating problems or perhaps a crack in the head.

Next step is to put about 5-10cc of oil in through the spark plug hole and recheck compression. If it comes up a lot, say to 150 or so, the problem is likely the piston/cylinder/ring interface. If it does not come up a lot the problem is the valves and head.

The step after that is you have to remove the engine :cry: . It is not possible to remove the head with the motor in place with this model. I know this from experiance.

We have seen similar issues with this model a number of times. We do not know why this normally robust engine design gives such problems, but it does. :cry:

I would debate selling it as is, this is what I did with mine. :?

It is fixable, but I threw in the towel with mine.

I think these engines develop problems early, so I figured if I fixed mine with original parts it would just puke again. :x

I only paid like $150 for mine so it did not hurt my feelings to see it go.

[m0t0]

Thanks Doc I appreciate the reply. Ill give the oil test a try tonight. I totally hear where your coming from on moving on, but this bike is actually for my wife to learn on, and she has grown attached to it so it looks like ill be in it for the long haul. :roll:

[FastDoc]

I don't want to sound too negative, this is simply what I did. :wink:

Parts for this bike are semi-available and inexpensive. It would be a bit of work to do the top end, but its not technically too hard. Indeed Spud has done his twice I think with great results. :D

Other options would be to transplant a 200-225cc Yamaha motor in there if you can find one. A 250 may fit also, I don't know. :?

It would be an unusual case of a Japanese motor transplanted into a Chinese bike, usually we do the reverse. :D

[katoranger]

It is fixable and yamaha parts have been confirmed to fit.

[Weldangrind]

I like the idea of digging into it, but it's not my time or money. :lol:

Just before you spin any wrenches, are you certain that you had the motor at TDC? If not, you won't accomplish anything. Apologies if you knew that already.

I like your new avatar. 8)

[SpudRider]

The bottom end of your engine is pure Yamaha. The camshaft, rocker arms, valves, and valve stem seals are most likely Yamaha parts as well. :) However, the cylinder, cylinder head, and associated gaskets are different, since Zongshen increased the cylinder bore to get the extra engine displacement above 196cc. If the oil test shows increased compression, you will need to order a Zongshen piston, Zongshen piston rings, and Zongshen gaskets. ;)

Spud :)

[m0t0]

Well after several hours on Saturday i managed to yank the motor out of the chassis. Only today to go and do something stupid... (ill get to that part in a minute) I pulled the top off the motor, everything looked good. Except, the bolt that holds the top sprocket in place for the cam chain was halfway undone, and the threads halfway in were messed up. I was hoping that was all it was. Then i decided to take the piston off and just check it out. First clip came out fine and i was very careful. Second one not so much. As i was pulling it out i lost my grip on it for a split second, and am fairly sure in dropped inside. After several very colorful choice words, i decided the only thing to do was to tear the rest of the ******* thing down and find it. So as it stands now, i have it mostly torn down, working to separate the two halves. I'm hoping to get to the rest of it this week if not it will be next weekend.

In the mean time has anyone had any luck recently getting in touch with zongshen america? I have tried calling and emailing with no reply on either avenue. I would really like to get the gasket sets on order so i'm not waiting to put the damn thing back together.

Your very frustrated forum fellow
m0t0

[m0t0]

Just before you spin any wrenches, are you certain that you had the motor at TDC? If not, you won't accomplish anything. Apologies if you knew that already.

I like your new avatar. 8)

Weld,

A reminder never hurt anyone and i thank you for it :D I was as sure as i could be that it was at true dead center. I was able to wiggle the rocker arms so i was fairly sure.

P.S. Thanks on the avatar

[Weldangrind]

I've certainly had days like that; I hope the case splitting goes well for you.

I've only sent one email to Zong America, and there was no response. Kidd91 lives close to the warehouse and has visited them, and he says the address to use is Miamimoto305@hotmail.com . If you don't have luck with that email, perhaps Kidd91 would be willing to help you.

[m0t0]

Weld,

Thanks for the quick reply! I really appreciate it. I just fired an email off to that address in hopes that it offers better results than prior attempts. If not perhaps Kidd91 would be willing to be a third party. Will just have to see. :mrgreen:

[SpudRider]

Well after several hours on Saturday i managed to yank the motor out of the chassis. Only today to go and do something stupid... (ill get to that part in a minute) I pulled the top off the motor, everything looked good. Except, the bolt that holds the top sprocket in place for the cam chain was halfway undone, and the threads halfway in were messed up. I was hoping that was all it was. Then i decided to take the piston off and just check it out. First clip came out fine and i was very careful. Second one not so much. As i was pulling it out i lost my grip on it for a split second, and am fairly sure in dropped inside. After several very colorful choice words, i decided the only thing to do was to tear the rest of the ******* thing down and find it. So as it stands now, i have it mostly torn down, working to separate the two halves. I'm hoping to get to the rest of it this week if not it will be next weekend.

In the mean time has anyone had any luck recently getting in touch with zongshen america? I have tried calling and emailing with no reply on either avenue. I would really like to get the gasket sets on order so i'm not waiting to put the damn thing back together.

Your very frustrated forum fellow
m0t0
Please post a photograph of the upper cam sprocket and its bolt. I suspect your engine is very similar to the Zong/TW200 engine. If so, the cam sprocket is bolted directly to the camshaft itself. Also, the cam sprocket is kept from rotating by a small nub on the camshaft, but this nub only restrains the cam sprocket if the bolt is tight. ;)

The gasket between both crankcase halves is a Yamaha gasket. However, because of the larger cylinder bore, you will need to get Zongshen gaskets for the cylinder base and cylinder head. ;) The cam chain, camshaft, and cam sprocket are also Yamaha parts.

Spud :)

[katoranger]

Spud, is the cylinder different from a larger yamaha bore like the 225?

[SpudRider]

Spud, is the cylinder different from a larger yamaha bore like the 225?
Yes, Yamaha enlarged the bore and stroke of the XT225/TT-R225/TT-R230 cylinder to increase engine displacement from 196cc to 223cc. Zongshen enlarged the bore of the ZS250GS cylinder by 5.5mm to increase engine displacement from 196cc to 230cc. Therefore, the ZS250GS, 230cc cylinder sleeve is shorter, and larger in diameter than the Yamaha, 223cc cylinder sleeve.

Zonshen ZS250GS Engine Specifications: Bore 72.5mm, Stroke 55.7mm
Yamaha TW200 Engine Specifications: Bore 67.0mm, Stroke 55.7mm
Yamaha TT-R230 Engine Specifications: Bore 70.0mm, Stroke 58.0mm

Spud :)

[katoranger]

It appears that the xt250 has a 74mm bore and a 58mm stroke.

I wonder if there is any yamaha pistons that may fit.

[SpudRider]

It appears that the xt250 has a 74mm bore and a 58mm stroke.

I wonder if there is any yamaha pistons that may fit.
If the piston pin is the same size, one could have a machinist overbore the ZS250GS cylinder to 74mm. Then it would be possible to use XT250 pistons and piston rings. The bike would also gain a little more engine displacement. ;)

Spud :)

[katoranger]

I don't know if the cylinder wall would be thick enough for that. I also think that the xt250 is a different case from the tw/xt200 so the cylinder probably wouldn't work.

[Weldangrind]

I don't know if the cylinder wall would be thick enough for that. I also think that the xt250 is a different case from the tw/xt200 so the cylinder probably wouldn't work.

I would agree. I think that the Zong ZS250GS cylinder would be required, and then the 200 Zong case would need to be bored to accept it. The extra 30cc would be a nice boost.

[SpudRider]

I don't know if the cylinder wall would be thick enough for that. I also think that the xt250 is a different case from the tw/xt200 so the cylinder probably wouldn't work.
The ZS250GS cylinder bore is 72.5mm, and the XT250 piston is 74mm in diameter. Therefore, the difference is 1.5mm, which might work. However, I would certainly defer to a machinist's judgement. ;) I think any piston with a diameter of 72.5mm and a wrist pin with the correct diameter to fit the connecting rod will work. ;)

The XT250 engine case is definitely different from the Zong/TW200 engine case. An XT250 cylinder would not fit the ZS250GS crankcase. :(

Spud :)

[FastDoc]

I thought crap like that only happend to me.... :cry:

Sorry to hear about your clip. At least you'll get to inspect everything. I remind myself when I make mistakes like this. This is why the pros are pros. I enjoy tinkering but I'd have surely lost my cool over that one.

I like the idea of using Yamaha parts where you can.

We are lucky to have experts here like Spud and Weld.

I'm interested to hear what was causing the problem. Like I said I gave up on mine when I discovered you can't remove the head in situ.

[FastDoc]

Except, the bolt that holds the top sprocket in place for the cam chain was halfway undone, and the threads halfway in were messed up.

If your motor ran, that bolt would have probably have fallen out. If that happened the motor would have been heavily damaged.

[m0t0]

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/dfb98cef-e12a-4826-ae1e-2cb77f28f375.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/IMG_20130410_090121.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/IMG_20130410_090356.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/IMG_20130410_090412.jpg

[SpudRider]

That's a common metric bolt, you shouldn't have any problem replacing it at Ace Hardware, et cetera. Please clean up the cam sprocket, and post another photograph of it. If the keyway isn't damaged, the cam sprocket is good, and you merely need to replace the bolt. I would also gently run a thread tap through the camshaft to clean up the internal threads.

The camshaft, bolt, washer, and cam sprocket are all Yamaha parts. However, if necessary, you can get a brand new camshaft from China for about $10. ;)

Spud :)

[m0t0]

sorry had two pictures of the same bolt. 3 days and still no reply from zongshen america.

[SpudRider]

I'm sorry to say it, but you need to keep contacting Zongshen America. They keep a nice inventory of parts, and the prices are great, but they don't have the best customer service. :roll:

Let's see a photograph of the end of the camshaft where you removed the cam sprocket. I want to see if end of the camshaft has been damaged. ;) Also, please clean up the dirty side of the cam sprocket, and post another photograph of it. :)

Spud :)

[m0t0]

spud were you referring to pic a or b? one or two? feel like your at the doc yet? let me know. in the mean time ill soak the sprocket in some gas and see if i cant shine it up. Ill also snap some photos of where the sprocket threads onto.

Also, I have the engine torn down most of the way now but i have hit a roadblock. Anyone know of an easy way to remove the magneto, and also the clutch basket?

Thanks,
M0t0

[SpudRider]

spud were you referring to pic a or b? one or two? feel like your at the doc yet? let me know. in the mean time ill soak the sprocket in some gas and see if i cant shine it up. Ill also snap some photos of where the sprocket threads onto.

Also, I have the engine torn down most of the way now but i have hit a roadblock. Anyone know of an easy way to remove the magneto, and also the clutch basket?

Thanks,
M0t0
Please clean this side of the cam sprocket, and post a photograph. I want to see if the keyway was damaged. ;)

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/IMG_20130410_090121.jpg

Also, please post a photograph of the end of the camshaft. I want to see if the key, or the fluting on the end of the camshaft is damaged. ;)

To remove the clutch basket you need a clutch holding tool.

http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/43/-/171/989/-/18289/Tusk-Clutch-Holding-Tool?term=clutch+tool

http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/images/prod/400/t/tus_08_clu_hol_too.jpg

To remove the flywheel, you need a flywheel holder.

http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq146/spudrider/Zong%20Engine%20Rebuild%2051687%20Miles/HighlineBSBandZongrebuild095.jpg

You also need a flywheel puller.

http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq146/spudrider/Zong%20Engine%20Rebuild%2051687%20Miles/HighlineBSBandZongrebuild098.jpg

Are you planning to split the crankcase? You don't need to split the crankcase to fix a compression problem. I assume you are pulling the flywheel to replace the cam chain. ;) Why do you want to remove the outer clutch basket? :?:

Spud :)

[katoranger]

Spud, he thinks that he dropped a wristpin clip in there.

[m0t0]

Spud, he thinks that he dropped a wristpin clip in there.

Nailed it. Plus the farther i get this thing torn down the better i feel about the rebuild. More than one bolt has been loose to the touch at this point.

I have the center bolt removed from the flywheel but wasn't sure if i could use a gear puller to get it out or something else. Ill order up the clutch basket holder. Any recommendations on a flywheel puller?

Thanks,
m0t0

P.S. Spud ill post new pics later today.

Thanks again everyone for all the help. :D

[katoranger]

I recommend swinging to the nearest dirt bike shop and getting one that fits yamaha 200cc engines. They are not that expensive and usually fit many bikes. I have the one that fits most smaller hondas.

[m0t0]

I'm sorry i should have clarified. Any idea what size i need? If i'm going to order a clutch holder ill just order one of those at the same time. I have nothing against buying local, but most of the shops in town aren't very helpful or friendly. The one shop i normally do business with and trust has kept me waiting for 7 months for some fairing bolts... Apparently they are "on order"

[katoranger]

Spud will know. Whatever fits the yamaha tw200.

Allen

[SpudRider]

...I have the center bolt removed from the flywheel but wasn't sure if i could use a gear puller to get it out or something else. Ill order up the clutch basket holder. Any recommendations on a flywheel puller?

Thanks,
m0t0

P.S. Spud ill post new pics later today.

Thanks again everyone for all the help. :D
You're welcome. :) Don't use a gear puller to remove the flywheel; use the correct flywheel puller. ;) The TW200/Zong flywheel puller is not expensive; it's just an M16x1.5, R.H. thread, bolt. My flywheel puller is Motion Pro part #08-0027.

http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0027/

https://ff3d8e6495061f28a832-a7869bbdcfcea96a643a5d6aa79482f7.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.c om/enlarged/08-0027.jpg

You can buy the same flywheel puller, with a different brand name, from a variety of vendors. ;)

Spud :)

[m0t0]

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/IMG_20130417_115553.jpg (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/n3lan/media/IMG_20130417_115553.jpg.html)
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/IMG_20130417_115608.jpg (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/n3lan/media/IMG_20130417_115608.jpg.html)
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/IMG_20130417_115632.jpg (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/n3lan/media/IMG_20130417_115632.jpg.html)

[SpudRider]

Thanks for posting the photos, Moto. :) You definitely need a new cam sprocket. :( I strongly suspect you also need a new camshaft. Please post photographs of the end of the camshaft where the sprocket attached.

The good news is this; those parts are readily available for low cost from Taobao. :)

Spud :)

[m0t0]

Spud,

You must watch the forums like a hawk :D Sorry for the delay in getting those pics up. Real life got in the way. I will try to post pics of the camshaft tonight when i get home.

Thanks,
m0t0

[FastDoc]

Nasty.

[m0t0]

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/IMG_20130418_090451.jpg (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/n3lan/media/IMG_20130418_090451.jpg.html)
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/IMG_20130418_090505.jpg (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/n3lan/media/IMG_20130418_090505.jpg.html)
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/IMG_20130418_090516.jpg (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/n3lan/media/IMG_20130418_090516.jpg.html)

[SpudRider]

You definitely need a new camshaft. :(

Have you pulled off the cylinder head? I wonder if the piston hit the valves? If you choose to repair this engine you will need to remove the metal fragments which fell down the cam chain passage into the area around the flywheel. You will also need to get a slide hammer to remove the damaged camshaft. If you want to get an idea of some of the work involved, you might enjoy reading the following thread.

http://chinariders.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=14802

Spud :)

[m0t0]

New pics for all!

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/IMG_20130424_120039.jpg (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/n3lan/media/IMG_20130424_120039.jpg.html)
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/IMG_20130424_120047.jpg (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/n3lan/media/IMG_20130424_120047.jpg.html)
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/IMG_20130424_120146.jpg (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/n3lan/media/IMG_20130424_120146.jpg.html)
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/IMG_20130424_120201.jpg (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/n3lan/media/IMG_20130424_120201.jpg.html)

[m0t0]

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/IMG_20130424_120224.jpg (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/n3lan/media/IMG_20130424_120224.jpg.html)
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/IMG_20130424_120322.jpg (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/n3lan/media/IMG_20130424_120322.jpg.html)

correct me if i'm wrong, but it looks like i need a new head?

[katoranger]

Would it be possible to use a complete yamaha top end? Cylinder, piston, head?

[SpudRider]

Wow! 8O That's more damage than I expected! :?

Fortunately, you might not need a new cylinder head. As long as the inside diameter of the camshaft bearing has not been damaged, you can smooth out the damaged area of the outside diameter of the bearing. You can also smooth out the damaged area of the cyclinder head, since the camshaft only turns on the inside diameter of this bearing. If the inside diameter of the bearing is damaged, you can purchase a new bearing along with a new camshaft.

Weldangrind is familiar with a modification performed on TW200 cylinder heads, which should also work on your cylinder head. For this modification, you would once again smooth out the damaged area of the cylinder head which supports the camshaft bearing. Then you would install a sealed, ball bearing which has the same diameter for the inner race as the diameter of the camshaft. Once again, since the camshaft turns only on the inner race of the bearing, the damaged, outside diameter of the cylinder head is irrelevant.

However, it's important to keep a tight fit between the camshaft bearing and the cylinder head, so the camshaft won't wobble. If you don't want to perform either the repair I mentioned, or the modification, you will need to purchase a new, ZS250GS cylinder head. I don't think any Yamaha cylinder heads will work for your ZS250GS, since the Zongshen cylinder bore is larger than the XT225 cylinder. :?

Spud :)

[m0t0]

Any recommendations on an easy way to smooth that out? Maybe just sandpaper?

Thanks
m0t0

Oh, and on a side note that cam bearing it seized solid so it looks like ill be getting another one.

[SpudRider]

I would use a Dremel tool with a cutting wheel, and a magnifying glass. If you don't feel comfortable doing the job, I suggest you take the cylinder head to a machinist. I'm sure he will do the job properly for a modest cost. ;)

Spud :)

[SpudRider]

Any recommendations on an easy way to smooth that out? Maybe just sandpaper?

Thanks
m0t0

Oh, and on a side note that cam bearing it seized solid so it looks like ill be getting another one.
The cam bearing doesn't cost much, especially if you get it from Taobao. Order the cam bearing along with a new camshaft, cam sprocket, and cam chain.

Did you check the valves and the piston head? Did the piston strike the valves and bend them? Is the piston head damaged?

Spud :)

[FastDoc]

The other interesting thing is that as bad as this damage is, I don't think it would have kept the motor from starting.

[m0t0]

The head of the piston looks fine but i will post some pics hopefully tomorrow. The valves also seem to be fine. I poured some gas in behind them and no leaks. I haven't pulled the valves out yet. Is this something i should do while I'm at it?

Thanks,
m0t0

[m0t0]

Oh, and on a side note i finally got in touch with someone in the Florida office at Zongshen America. Prices are very reasonable. I'm still waiting to hear back on a few prices, but it looks like i may be able to do the complete repair for around $200.

[SpudRider]

Have you removed the cylinder head? How many miles has the odometer recorded? How old is the bike?

Personally, I would remove the valves and inspect them for bent valve stems. I would also lap the valves, and replace the valve stem seals. However, if you are uncomfortable performing these tasks, and the bike is low mileage, I can understand why you might prefer to leave things as they are, especially if the valves are passing the "solvent test." ;)

Spud :)

[Weldangrind]

If the cylinder head is reasonably priced, I'd just replace it.

[Corvairkid]

ok i'm working on my gs250 and i got a new cdi new spark plug new coil but still no spark the kill switch tested good so i figured I'd check the stator 1 question is it a wet or dry stator?? i got lots of oil under the cover i mean quarts of it.....

[SpudRider]

ok i'm working on my gs250 and i got a new cdi new spark plug new coil but still no spark the kill switch tested good so i figured I'd check the stator 1 question is it a wet or dry stator?? i got lots of oil under the cover i mean quarts of it.....
The stator is bathed in oil. Your motorcycle uses 1 quart of motor oil.

Spud :)

[Corvairkid]

i got 3 quarts of oil out of the bike =( might have been a good thing since it sat out side for 2 years =)

[Weldangrind]

Are you saying that someone intentionally overfilled it, to control corrosion during storage?

[Corvairkid]

vary possible but the guy that gave me the bike and title is not that smart he tried to take the turn signals and use them to make the head light brighter......... as well as the tail light and break light...... i fixed that with leds i used a high out put 1157 led break light and got a set of nice fo-carbon fiber red turn signals for the back and a aftermarket chines head light with leds built in for the front



http://www.ebay.com/itm/180867488335?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2648


http://www.ebay.com/itm/321088635117?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


http://www.ebay.com/itm/190823354782?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

[m0t0]

Sorry for no posts in forever. I keep trying to get ahold of nestor @ Zongshen America in Florida but my emails keep going unanswered. A couple of emails a week sent out and no reply in weeks. Anyone have any suggestions. I'm at my whits end.

Thanks,
m0t0

[Corvairkid]

have you tried taking the head to a machine shop that specializes in heads and having them re-cut the valve sets on both the valve and head?
i've done it before on old cars

[FastDoc]

Sorry to hear about your issues.

This is the only CB I have owned that did not work out for me...

I see no reason to not bring the head to a machine shop that does bikes and see what they say.

[Corvairkid]

look what i found on taobao.com http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.0.105.y1Avah&scm=1007.77.0.0&id=17326220184&pvid=29aa0d86-7740-480c-8d24-a5b5f0d1be24&ad_id=&am_id=&cm_id=&pm_id=

[SpudRider]

I don't think Moto needs a new cylinder head, nor does he need to cut the valves seats, Kid. ;)

Moto, you only need to clean up the support surface for the camshaft bushing. You can do it yourself, but you can also take the cylinder head to a machinist. He can inspect the cylinder head, and do any necessary work. I doubt he would charge very much. :)

You also need to buy a new camshaft and camshaft bearing. You can get these items from Zongshen America, or Taobao. Zonshen America is notorious for poor customer service. :ohno: If you wish to get the parts from ZA, I suggest you make repeated telephone calls to them, instead of relying on emails. ;)

You will probably get better prices, and have fewer headaches by ordering the parts from Taobao, using an agent such as TBTrends. ;)

http://www.tbtrends.com/

[Corvairkid]

well here is a gasket for the head i assume you'll remove it for inspection and youll need a new gasket to reseal it i also found the cam shaft for ya ;)

[URL]http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3.w17-6941574491.26.SRIUyp&id=8168087630&[\URL]

[URL]http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3.w17-6941574491.46.mYnTwW&id=5769572658&[\URL]

[Weldangrind]

well here is a gasket for the head i assume you'll remove it for inspection and youll need a new gasket to reseal it i also found the cam shaft for ya ;)

[URL]http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3.w17-6941574491.26.SRIUyp&id=8168087630&[\URL]

[URL]http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3.w17-6941574491.46.mYnTwW&id=5769572658&[\URL]

That's really cool, Corvairkid. Thanks for helping a fellow member.

[Corvairkid]

not a problem i know how hard this is to do some thing being an importer of LEDs from china i still don't read Chinese nor can i speak it well enough to hold a conversation thank god for Google translator

[SpudRider]

that's really cool, corvairkid. Thanks for helping a fellow member.
x2! :)

[m0t0]

You will probably get better prices, and have fewer headaches by ordering the parts from Taobao, using an agent such as TBTrends. ;)http://www.tbtrends.com/

I'm guessing supd probably has ordered from taobao but how reliable is tbtrends? I hesitate using a third party company like that to buy merchandise from China. However with as helpful as zong america is ill likely be taking the plunge.

Corvairkid, thanks for finding replacement parts. Weld and Spud are right! I really appreicate it



BTW anyone who uses google chrome, it does a fantastic job converting from chineese to english. The link below seems to go to the zong shop if this helps anyone else. Just select your model on the left hand side.

http://shop57884342.taobao.com/

[SpudRider]

Forum member Pliskin paved the way with the first order from TBTrends. I next placed an order with this Taobao agent. Since then, others have followed suit. Weldangrind has placed several orders with TBTrends. We have all had positive experiences with this Taobao agent.

Thanks for providing the link to the Zongshen group on Taobao! :) If you can order all your parts directly from Zongshen you might minimize the language problems. However, check to make sure the total cost of the parts, including shipping, is not more than the total cost at TBTrends.

If you decide to order parts from China, please do start a new thread on this subject and document your experience. :) I am especially interested to learn if you decided to order directly from the Zongshen group on Taobao. ;)

[Weldangrind]

I've received two shipments from Taobao (via TBTrends), and the process has been very smooth. TBTrends has my trust.

The Google Chrome translator is ok, but not great. I was looking at seat covers, and they translate to foreskin. That kind of error could be most unfortunate. :crazy:

[SpudRider]

You just "circumcised" a saddle, didn't you, Weld? :lol:

[humanbeing]

Oral chinese don't follow ANY rules learned from school.
坐 sit + 包 sack/ bag (Also means cover, so there's that :lmao:) + 皮 skin

Cantonese & official written form prefers this:
http://www.nciku.com/search/zh/detail/%E5%9E%AB/1303258

[Corvairkid]

i'm 2 weeks in to an order on TB trends and so far its been slow to get a response via email but have been assured the items are on the way to the agent and will be sent off to the ISC talk about snail mail i think there was a vacation over there like spring break or something and thats part of my delay but i'm not vary patience with shipping stuff as it is i'm email spoiled and download raised

[Weldangrind]

...i'm email spoiled and download raised

That hadn't occurred to me; very good point. Even though I've been using email, etc. for a number of years, there's still a certain novelty to it. Not so if you're raised with it.

[m0t0]

Long time no post. Several years or something like that... better yet...

A long time ago in a forum far far away!

I'm finally getting back to this project that i started so long ago. I managed to crack the case today and figured i would post some pictures. Best I can tell no piston clip in either side.


http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/th_20150208_163517.jpg (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/n3lan/media/20150208_163517.jpg.html)

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/th_20150208_163509.jpg (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/n3lan/media/20150208_163509.jpg.html)

[Weldangrind]

I had to read this thread from the beginning to recall what we spoke about. Funny that you haven't found the clip. Maybe take the time to use a small magnet over all of the surfaces inside the case, and see if the clip appears.

I made the pics a bit bigger for you.

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/20150208_163509.jpg (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/n3lan/media/20150208_163509.jpg.html)


http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/20150208_163517.jpg (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/n3lan/media/20150208_163517.jpg.html)

[Weldangrind]

I'd look closely between the crank counterweights. It might be hiding in there.

[m0t0]

look what i found...
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/20150216_182526.jpg (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/n3lan/media/20150216_182526.jpg.html)

and here's about where i found it
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa451/n3lan/eac45db8-bc0b-406a-85e7-efbdce12a336.jpg (http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/n3lan/media/eac45db8-bc0b-406a-85e7-efbdce12a336.jpg.html)

Now hopefully moving on with the rebuild. This is as far as i have had something like this torn down, and i'm looking for some guidance at this point. Is there anything else i should be checking at this point? Is my next step to clean up and remove the old seal from both sides? If so with just a razor blade? Then just put everything back in and apply new seal to both sides and reseal? If so any recommendations on on a product for that? Saw somewhere something like yamabond maybe? Your thoughts and guidance are appreciated.

Thanks,
m0t0

[Weldangrind]

Glad you found the clip.

Which seals do you mean? The shifter and countershaft seals?

[m0t0]

Thanks for the reply weld. Let me apologize in advance just in case i sound like a noob. I should have clarified. I was actually asking about the two halves of the crankcase. Are there other seals i should be worried about before i slap the two halves back together?

[Weldangrind]

No, you can change the countershaft seal and shifter seal after the engine is installed, if necessary.

Yamabond, Three Bond or Loctite flange sealant, like 518 would work well for the case halves.

[m0t0]

Is there a preference of the three? And as for what seems to be left of existing seal on the two halves, just take a razor blade to them or something else?

[Weldangrind]

Be careful with a razor, as it could easily gouge the aluminum. I use the back edge of a razor, since it is stiff without being too sharp. With nitrile gloves, you could also try a small stainless brush and some acetone. Beware of fumes.

[Weldangrind]

I don't have a preference between the three flange sealing products. Whichever is cheaper.

[humanbeing]

...try a small stainless brush and some acetone. Beware of fumes.
In good 'o days those aerosol gasket remover contains loads of DCM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichloromethane) which is very efficient :clap:

[m0t0]

Alright, finally got the two halves of the crank case cleaned up and put back together. I'm getting ready to order parts and need some input. A while back i picked up a complete top end. Cylinder, head, valves, cam, sprocket, the whole nine yards. Basically should I use my original cylinder and just order the parts i need, or should i just order a bottom seal and a set of piston rings for the complete top end. The original low compression has me a little worries that i'm going to get this thing put back together and still have low compression. Thanks for your help and advice.

m0t0

[Weldangrind]

I can't believe I missed your last post; if you're still watching this, please clarify what you mean.

Are you asking if you should reuse your old cylinder? If you have a new one, I'd just use that. Before installing the new cylinder head, I'd set it upside down on the bench, and fill the chamber with acetone, paint thinner or whatever. Let it sit overnight, and see if any leaked past the valve seats. If not, you have a winner. :D