Skyteam Cobra 50

[tecnolli]

Hi everybody,

i already showed the first few pictures in the introduction section. Yesterday i finished some minor work on the bike. Removed the rear fender, taillight, indicators and the heavy subframe. Added LED-lights, a Lithium-Ion battery and a gas filter.
Just came home from a short ride near the rhine river:

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6787/20130609184209874.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/189/20130609184209874.jpg/)

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/5136/sn850305b.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/534/sn850305b.jpg/)

[Weldangrind]

Those braided hoses are a nice touch. Just so I understand, that's a 50cc engine? If so, I'm shocked; I've never seen a vertical 50.

Also, love your avatar.

[tecnolli]

Yes, it has 50cc. It all started with the Honda XR 75 in 1973:
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/9861/hondaxr75.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/hondaxr75.jpg/)

The engine was downsized to 50cc for the Honda CB 50 in 1977:
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/7647/hondacb50.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/837/hondacb50.jpg/)

This 50cc engine was used in several Honda models, for example the XL 50:
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4488/hondaxl50.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/hondaxl50.jpg/)

Or the CY 50:
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1437/hondacy50.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/442/hondacy50.jpg/)

Or the Honda Ape:
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/9721/hondaape50.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/829/hondaape50.jpg/)

My Skyteam Cobra copies the Ape:
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/8062/25939853.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/25939853.png/)

Another copy is the Zhenhua Ape:
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/2416/zhenhuaape.JPG (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/39/zhenhuaape.JPG/)

Some say, the most beautiful 50cc-bike ever was the Honda Dream 50:
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4600/hondadream50.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/hondadream50.jpg/)

Copied as a Skyteam Ace 50:
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/8029/skyteamace50.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/507/skyteamace50.png/)

:hi:

[Weldangrind]

You're showing me bikes I've never seen. Around here, the XR50 was/is horizontal. I knew about the XR75 being vertical, but that was the smallest I had come across.

I have seen the Dream before, but that had a twin exhaust. Nice bike.

[SpudRider]

Your Skyteam Cobra 50 is a great looking motorcycle! :) I like the tasteful modifications you have made to the bike. :tup: Thanks for telling us the history of the 50cc vertical engine!

[tecnolli]

You do mean this one? http://www.bikez.com/pictures/honda/2002/20020_0_1_2_xr%2050%20r_Image%20by%20Honda.%20Publ ished%20with%20permission..jpg
Nice little thing. I need two of them, one for every foot. :D

The vertical 50cc engines were/are quite common in europe. In the late 70s/early 80s it was somehow sophisticated for a 15 or 16 year old boy to have a 50cc fourstroke honda, while everybody else was riding twostroke bikes, mostly from german manufacturers like Kreidler, Zündapp, Hercules or the Austrian Puch. Topspeed was all that matters, because the fastest guy got all the girls. Most of the Honda riders were single. :hehe:

The Dream... very nice bike. Put a 500cc engine in and i'll buy one.

[tecnolli]

@Spud, thank you. Let's see how long it stays tasteful. ;) Next thing to do is getting the footpegs a little backwards and fit the shifting pedal and brake pedal. I'm not really into self-made major modifications like welding, so i have to find the right people to help me with this. This evening the bike goes to a small garage/workshop to get the valve clearance checked. I'll ask the guy for his ideas about the footpegs.

[zingshoen]

great looking bike indeed! how fast does it go?

since the 4 stroke sounds much better than the two stroke motors, one may still be able to hope for a girl, provided the muffler is modified. :hmm:

[tecnolli]

@zingshoen, with god's help and a little tailwind it goes about 32mph, this is 50kmh, the speedometer says 60kmh. Even a rider with less weight and air drag than me could smell on every flower on his way... :)
With just about 100mls done, the engine is not completely broken in. I don't want to ride it too hard now, but anyway, i don't think that the topspeed will increase a lot.

Another thing to care about is the damping of the front end. The brake works really well (22cm disc with double piston caliper) and causes the front end to dive deep while braking. I'll try 30mm preload bushings and a more viscous oil. The girls who chose the twostroke guys 30 years ago now prefer guys with a harder front end! :lmao:

[Weldangrind]

You do mean this one? http://www.bikez.com/pictures/honda/2002/20020_0_1_2_xr%2050%20r_Image%20by%20Honda.%20Publ ished%20with%20permission..jpg
Nice little thing. I need two of them, one for every foot. :D

That's exactly what I mean. Also, that platform is what our Chinese friends have bored 'n' stroked out to 150cc (and beyond). The 125cc pit bike version is quite common in NA.

[culcune]

The Dream... very nice bike. Put a 500cc engine in and i'll buy one.

There is a 250cc version (supposed) to come out in the US "at the end of summer."

http://avavelocityworks.com/what-is-ava/

[tecnolli]

Cool bike. And a step in the right direction. Looks like they used the skyteam-frame.

[Trailbikeryder]

@tecnolli
Do the footpegs on the cobra fold up?

[tecnolli]

Yes, they do, and i like it like that. My plan is to get some folding motocross-footpegs without that thick ugly rubber welded to the small plates at the side of the frame, where the footpegs at the 125cc-model are attached.
An hour ago i got the bike back from adjusting the valve clearance. The guy said, it's not legal to shorten the brake pedal with welding, the footpegs will be no problem. I should look for a brake pedal from another bike that fits.
Or i will find a welder who doesn't know that he's welding a brake pedal... :hehe:

[tecnolli]

btw... how was Nürburgring?

[Trailbikeryder]

Nürburgring Weekend was great. Rode with the big bike. It was hard to go back to work on monday morning though..:)



http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o741/trailbikeryder/RAR%202013/IMG_20130609_094104_zps6e70cdfa.jpg (http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/trailbikeryder/media/RAR%202013/IMG_20130609_094104_zps6e70cdfa.jpg.html)

Sunday: packing the bike for the ride home. It started to rain about half way home.
http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o741/trailbikeryder/RAR%202013/IMG_20130609_094028_zps1724e60b.jpg (http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/trailbikeryder/media/RAR%202013/IMG_20130609_094028_zps1724e60b.jpg.html)

Had the bike parked right next to my tent.
http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o741/trailbikeryder/RAR%202013/IMG_20130607_161955_zps5c26bdd3.jpg (http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/trailbikeryder/media/RAR%202013/IMG_20130607_161955_zps5c26bdd3.jpg.html)

[tecnolli]

Reminds me of a crime scene, that's a good sign. :hehe:
Nice Kawa. Lots of chrome to polish after a ride in the rain. :cry:

[Weldangrind]

At leasat it wasn't raining while you were packing up the tent. That's what usually happens to me.

[tecnolli]

STRRRRIKE! Finally solved my footpeg problem.
Some of you might remember that the original footpegs are way too far in front for me. This is the bike in standard condition:
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8315/n3de.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/526/n3de.jpg/)

And this is it since today:
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1488/niws.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41/niws.jpg/)

You notice what took me so long. I had to find a solution for the shifting pedal. And i did. :yay:

Same story with the brake pedal, this is standard condition:
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/6273/h1hw.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41/h1hw.jpg/)

I found a brake pedal for the Cobra 125, and i found it in Great Britain. The shipping was higher than the cost of the pedal, but it was exactly what i needed. I shortened it for about an inch and now it fit's perfectly. A better mechanic would have achieved a better look, but it's very stable, and that's what counts for me:
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/8854/usyk.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/usyk.jpg/)

On these pictures the shifting pedal appears to be very low, but in fact the whole setting is higher and narrower than the standard setting.The new footpegs do fold up like the old ones. The only downside of this whole project is that the side stand is missing now. I'm still looking for a solution therefor. Maybe the main stand of a Honda Dax will fit, i have to check that. But not today. Today is the right time to celebrate my first bike conversion... :lmao:

[SpudRider]

:tup:

[Weldangrind]

Nice rearsets! Does the kicker interfere with the footpeg?

[tecnolli]

Sadly it does, if the footpeg is in riding position. If the footpeg is folded up, there's enough space for the kicker. I guess i will simply use a spring or something to hold the footpeg up when i use the kicker.

In 99% i use the electric starter, because i'm too lazy. It starts really well, no matter if the engine is cold or not. The best part is when i operate the kicker by hand to start the bike easily, you should see the look on people's faces... :wtf:

[Trailbikeryder]

That really looks better then the original. That original brake pedal is so long you could make a kick stand out of it.?
What does that mean to on your side panel?

Was the NGK spark plug and cable welded to ignition coil?
(German translation:war das Zündkabel fest mit der Zündspule verbunden?)
I'm asking because I wanted to put a new NGK plug and cable on my bike, but I can't get the cable off the ignition coil.

[tecnolli]

Hi Eric,
you're right, the original brake pedal was really ugly. It has enough metal to make a Harley-Davidson rear fender out of it.

The chinese sign says "Spicy duck with peanut sauce and lemon grass". Just kidding... :hehe:. It is the sign for ape. I chose it, because the Skyteam Cobra copies the Honda Ape. And btw, in chinese horoscope 1968 (when i was born) was the year of the ape :).

The ignition cable was screwed (geschraubt) to the ignition coil as well as to the plug connector, if i remember right.

[Weldangrind]

Trailbikeryder, the coil wire is usually difficult to remove from the coil, but not impossible. You should be able to peel back the rubber boot and unscrew the cable from the coil. Of all the China bikes and atv's I've worked on, I've never found one that won't come apart. I've installed a few NGK wires into China coils with good success.

[Weldangrind]

Tecnolli, do you have links to the shifter and brake pedal parts?

[zingshoen]

:tup: good you re fitting her out the way you like it.

[tecnolli]

The shifter is from a XMotos SBF31.
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/7826/yzzg.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/507/yzzg.jpg/)

I found the shifter on german ebay for 10€ brand new. I just had to prolong it for about 4-5 inches. Here's another picture:
http://imageshack.us/a/img834/6917/hwpe.jpg

I found the brake pedal at http://www.skyteamparts.com/
I also ordered the two frame plates that carry the footpegs, just to keep them stored if i once decide to change back to the original setting. The plates will take another 5-6 weeks for delivery, the british guys sent me a mail to inform me, good communication with them.

[Trailbikeryder]

@Weldandgrind
I will have a closer look at it. I was just afraid I would destroy it by just pulling on it.

@Oliver
Oh thanks! Thats a great site. I didn't know it before. They have all the exploded assembly drawings of my bike there as well.

[tecnolli]

@Eric, sorry, i forgot to mention this site earlier. Once i got my brake pedal, i was so happy that i forgot about everything else.

[Trailbikeryder]

Not a problem Oliver :) It looks like you need to turn the footpeg on the last picture a bit to the right, so the top of the peg is flat.
Maybe we can meet again and have BBQ at my house sometime in next weeks (JUL or AUG)? I will check what Weekends are best for me and let you know.

[tecnolli]

I intented to give the footpegs a little forward angle according to the angle of the foot while riding. Maybe i was a little too optimistic. ;)
I got the footpegs welded at work and i arrived there without the bike, only with the two frame plates. The angle of the welding was just try and error.
The result may seem a little strange, but it works really well, the footpegs are very grippy, almost too grippy for a quick change of foot position, especially with rough soles on my boots.

Great idea with the BBQ, just let me know. :tup:

[zingshoen]

i know what you mean, too grippy is not good i find. certain boots (soles) work on certain bikes. the m2r boots i have are great, but on the honda i can t wear them...and it s not because of the colour match. so it is the doc martens on the honda.

[tecnolli]

Yes, you need a fair amount of concentration while shifting. I'll try some other boots, maybe like this:

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4387/68lj.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/9/68lj.jpg/)

:hehe:

[Weldangrind]

The shifter is from a XMotos SBF31.
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/7826/yzzg.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/507/yzzg.jpg/)

I found the shifter on german ebay for 10€ brand new. I just had to prolong it for about 4-5 inches. Here's another picture:
http://imageshack.us/a/img834/6917/hwpe.jpg

I found the brake pedal at http://www.skyteamparts.com/
I also ordered the two frame plates that carry the footpegs, just to keep them stored if i once decide to change back to the original setting. The plates will take another 5-6 weeks for delivery, the british guys sent me a mail to inform me, good communication with them.

Thanks for the link. I looked at the Sky Team site, but I'm not sure which model you chose for the brake pedal. Also, please let me know if you have a specific link for the shifter, since I can't negotiate the German eBay site. I'm grateful for your help.

[tecnolli]

@Weld,
maybe this link will work, this is the seller that i got the shifter from.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/330712509233?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

The brake pedal is from a Skyteam Cobra, but the 125cc model. The difference between the 125cc model and my 50cc model is that the shifting shaft (is that term correct? I mean Schaltwelle, maybe trailbikerider can help) is more rearwards on the 125cc model, so they use the frame mounted footpegs in original condition. The shorter 125cc brake pedal dropped right in.

[Weldangrind]

Thanks for the link. The seller doesn't ship to Canada, but perhaps I can find something similar in NA.

[tecnolli]

Yessss, i got some work done! :yay:

One-piece aluminium rims for tubeless tires, black plastic coated, with new Michelin Bopper. I felt quite uncomfortable in wet conditions with the original china tires and i didn't wanted to accept the need of tube tires just to ride on blacktop roads.
The Michelins run very smooth when going straight, but they feel a little more nervous while entering the corners. Rubber is much softer than the china tires. I gotta keep some money back for the next set.

New taillight, also LED, but a more classic style which fits the bike well, i think.

Lower aluminium handlebar with clamps from a Honda Dax.

Speaking of Honda Dax, i got a complete footpegs/main stand/side stand-set for a Honda Dax and chopped both sides so only the main stand remains. And it fits with just a minor adjustment to get it about 1cm deeper down to give the bike a safer stand.

More to come, i'll keep you informed. ;)

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3647/2f1f.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/2f1f.jpg/)

[Weldangrind]

Well though-out mods. Nice looking bike.

[zingshoen]

all that makes a lot of sense, especially the tires. safety first. the good rear dunlop on my suzuki only lasted half as long as the cheng shin on the zong, but it does stick to the road nicely. but that is in dry weather. is the bopper for wet conditions?
here we ve had so much rain after 10 years of drought that a wet weather tire is worth a thought.

[tecnolli]

The Michelin Bopper is not especially designed for wet conditions, it is more like a soft sports tire (what does suit it for wet conditions) with less negative profile (what does NOT suit it for wet conditions).
Over all, in dry conditions the Bopper is clearly the better tire compared to the stock china tires. By now i have only done about 60mls with them, only in dry weather. I guess if my main focus was on riding in wet conditions, i should have chosen an other tire.

[matasar]

I got the honda ape or monkey or whatever its called today when i was 7 years.
It lasted rough riding for 10 years or so before it brooke.
Your project look awesome, must be a fun machine!
Really nice details.

It should be possible with correct stuff to make electric shifting.
Will google.

[tecnolli]

@matasar, i like the old Hondas a lot, no matter if it's Monkey or Dax or whatever. The downside is that they got quite looked after and expensive. Also the prices of original Honda parts for them are just a bad joke. If you find an old Honda that is not butchered, especially in good stock condition and for a reasonable price: Get it!

Thank you for your comments. You're right, it is a fun machine, and people react in a special way at a big guy on a small bike. :hehe:
I'm still thinking about a 200 or 223cc-conversion for next year, and i'm trying to get everything else done until then. We'll see.
Electric shifting is an interesting idea, but i fear the cost. In Germany we say "If a pig wears a suit, it's still a pig." :lmao:

[Trailbikeryder]

Looks good Oliver. Did you need to put lead on the rims?

[tecnolli]

Thanks Eric, no, no lead at all. But we had to do some work on the rims, they were a lot beefier than the stock two-piece-rims. We had to rework the valve holes from both sides, and we had to remove a little material from the edge of the front brake caliper to give it a little more clearance to the rim. Clearance was about 2mm, now it is about 4-5mm.

Today i get my footpegs worked over. The two stock frame plates turned out to be not as stable as i expected them to be. They bend because my feet are to heavy. :hehe:
The local metal shop will do some stainless steel plates and reweld the footpegs. I'm courius how this will work out. I'll see this evening.

[matasar]

@matasar, i like the old Hondas a lot, no matter if it's Monkey or Dax or whatever. The downside is that they got quite looked after and expensive. Also the prices of original Honda parts for them are just a bad joke. If you find an old Honda that is not butchered, especially in good stock condition and for a reasonable price: Get it!

Thank you for your comments. You're right, it is a fun machine, and people react in a special way at a big guy on a small bike. :hehe:
I'm still thinking about a 200 or 223cc-conversion for next year, and i'm trying to get everything else done until then. We'll see.
Electric shifting is an interesting idea, but i fear the cost. In Germany we say "If a pig wears a suit, it's still a pig." :lmao:

Your engine looks the same as my 167fmm engine.
So it should fit right into place with same bolting.
Its 230cc pushrod but they are also in OHC version i think.

[tecnolli]

Pushrods will do it for me, i don't want to win a GrandPrix. About 60km from my place a guy does this conversions including the engine, the work and german TÜV for about 1000€. The TÜV-engineer must be his brother-in-law or something...

[Trailbikeryder]

My foot peg plates are bent a little also. I was thinking to make some out 10mm aluminum.

The TÜV-engineer must be his brother-in-law or something...

Yeah, if you don't know someone that knows someone your're out of luck. Our car that we sold two years ago (I thank god I don't own that car anymore) only passed the inspection after the third time we were there. The guy was a friend from my father in law. I think he was blind on one eye and he forgot he his glasses that day. And it was small stuff like the seat belt didn't roll up by itself any more, or the back windshield wiper was broken. "If its there, it has to work". I was ready to cut it off and put a peace of tape over the hole. Or the drivers door didn't stay open by itself.

[tecnolli]

Well, i reached the final stage of getting new footpegs, i hope. I got the bike back yesterday evening and the guy from the metal shop did really great. He used the stock frame plates with the footpegs welded to them, and he made 3mm stainless steel plates lying behind them, they are welded to the stock plates. On the first look i thought "Did he do anything?", on the second look i thought "Wow...". It took him almost the whole day, including one heli-coil-thread on the left side. Now rather the frame will bend than the footpegs ;). 150€, not cheap, but well spent for good work, i think.
Photos would not show any difference.

I need the bike running today, so the guy gave me good advice to get the plates painted fast: I should heat up the plates with hot air (google didn't find the right term for this thing. You know, like a blow dryer, but much hotter) and heat up the cans of primer and paint in the same way. It worked out well, one hour from naked steel wired to the clothes line to painted footpegs on the bike.

As i mounted the folding footpegs back to the plates, i tried and excluced the springs that put them back down. The footpegs now fold up to vertical and stay this way, so the kicker does not interfere anymore. Putted it back on. One kilo added again... :hehe:

[Weldangrind]

I understand; the term you're looking for in English is heat gun.

[Trailbikeryder]

Sounds good about the the plates. Sometimes little things make a big difference.

[tecnolli]

heat gun
Thank you! :tup: