National Helmet Law

[FastDoc]

Looks like the US is close to a National Helmet Law.

http://rideapart.com/2013/11/watson-cdc-proposal-mandatory-helmet-laws-across-u-s/

http://rideapart.com/2013/11/federal-government-working-on-national-helmet-law/

So much for states rights and the 10th Ammendment... Why not, the 1st and 2nd Ammendments have been beat to $%$t by the current administration, but I digress.

In any event, I figure this may make an interesting discussion, and of the motorcycles forums I've visited, I think this is the only one mature enough to discuss this calmly and intelligently:-)

I'm a (nearly) ATGATT kind of guy, but I still people have a right to risk their owns lives as they see fit. I don't want to outlaw smoking, rockclimbing, kayaking, flying, spelunking, scuba diving, sky diving or anythting else.

Someday some government offical may decide my private airplane is too dangerous, or my sports car, or our motorcycles, helmet or not.

Benjamin Franklin said, and I agree, that those who sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither.

As far as Canada goes, I think all providences require helmets already, but I'm not sure.

[Wild_Alaskan]

I agree fully with you

[SpudRider]

I couldn't agree with you more completely, Doc. It's not the government's job to protect us from ourselves by infringing upon our freedoms. :tdown: I always wear a helmet, and I strongly encourage everyone else to do the same. :) However, I am adamantly opposed to mandatory helmet laws. :wtf:

[Weldangrind]

I believe that every Province has a helmet law. The only exception I'm aware of is for those who wear a turban.

[GlennR]

I'd don't have a problem wearing a helmet. I wouldn't feel safe at 80 mph without one. ;)


Laws and rights are sort of strange.
It usually depends on who's paying the politicians the most to screw the public out of whatever, or to give it back. I'd assume the insurance co.'s pushed for helmets. Crippled & braindead quadriplegics are expensive to keep up.

I'm not sure who's paid em' for gay marriage and legal pot. But, I'd need to be more than stoned to want to marry a dude!! I guess those are considered separate issues.

It's amazing how much power the NRA has. Hard to believe assault rifles are still legal to buy, considering the nutjobs using them for mass shooting sprees lately.

It seems that the extremists call the shots in the US. Extreme left or right, are both extremists. Moderates aren't heard, I guess because they aren't crazy enough to be interesting, or intimidating.

I'm still trying to figure out why gambling and prostitution aren't legal. Would Vegas crumble?

There sure are a lot of "Freedoms" that we don't have in this country of the "Free".

[Weldangrind]

I'm not sure who's paid em' for gay marriage and legal pot. But, I'd need to be more than stoned to want to marry a dude!! I guess those are considered separate issues.

That's one of the funniest lines I've ever read!

Thanks for your post; I fully appreciated it.

[FastDoc]

That's one of the funniest lines I've ever read!

Thanks for your post; I fully appreciated it.

You beat me to it! That statement was a riot!

[FastDoc]

'Hard to believe assault rifles are still legal to buy...'

My collection of assault rifles from all over the world must be peculiar in as much as they have never spontaneously broken out of my safes, loaded themselves, driven anywhere or harmed anyone.

Indeed, in a SHTF scenario, any law abiding citizen would want to be in my house.

But I digress....

A gun control discussion may also be worthwhile but that should be in a different thread :-)

[FastDoc]

'I'm still trying to figure out why gambling and prostitution aren't legal.'

We agree on this as well.

[SpudRider]

'Hard to believe assault rifles are still legal to buy...'

My collection of assault rifles from all over the world must be peculiar in as much as they have never spontaneously broken out of my safes, loaded themselves, driven anywhere or harmed anyone.

Indeed, in a SHTF scenario, any law abiding citizen would want to be in my house.

But I digress....

A gun control discussion may also be worthwhile but that should be in a different thread :-)

X2. :) If you wish, please do start a new thread on this subject, Brother Bill. I'm sure the debate would keep us occupied a good part of this unpleasant winter. :lol:

[SpudRider]

'I'm still trying to figure out why gambling and prostitution aren't legal.'

We agree on this as well.

X3. I don't approve of either gambling, or prostitution. However, it's none of the government's business to meddle in these enterprises.

In fact, the government operates gambling enterprises (lotteries, et cetera), but it wants to prevent others from doing so. :wtf: Also, if a man agrees to pay a women for sex, it's none of the government's business. At least legal prostitution offers some protection for the women, and maintains health standards.

[FastDoc]

I don't think those things are necessarly good for society or for the individual but it is not the position of government to meddle in.

[Anticitizen419]

In Croatia this law is valid (helmet law) for as far as i can remember. I don't know how was it in former yugoslavia (i was a kid back then and really don't remember seeing much bikes on roads at that time). But since we have our independence riding a motorcycle without helmet was considered a traffic law violation. Same is with the safety belt in cars. Fine is about 100 usd if you're driving without seat belt fastened

[Wild_Alaskan]

It's amazing how much power the NRA has. Hard to believe assault rifles are still legal to buy, considering the nutjobs using them for mass shooting sprees lately.


Probably should make hammers illegal as well since they are used for more murders than all long rifles.


There sure are a lot of "Freedoms" that we don't have in this country of the "Free".


So you want to take away just certain freedoms that wouldn't effect you?

[GlennR]

I don't believe I mentioned I'd be for taking away any of our rights. I just pointing out things I find curious about our society.

Speaking of hammers...I've been laying a floor over the past week and have two purple fingers to prove it! I think they actually got pinched between the boards as I was tapping (banging) them tight.

I doubt hammers have been used for many "mass murders". ;) Btw, I wonder which end of the hammer is used most often? The claw on a framing hammer is pretty wicked.


If this winter really gets brutal we could have a discussion about taxes too!


There's a "pet peeve" thread going on another forum I visit. Lot'sa good bitchin' going on there. Every year I just keep on getting to be an even "crabbier old fart"! It's nice to see that I'm not alone.

I hope we have a mild winter......

[alchemysa]

Helmets are compulsory in Australia for motorcycles and bicycles.

In Australia we also have a free national health and hospital service. This means that if some fool smashes his head open doing something stupid then we all pay for it.... and the bills could run into millions.

So, in light of the fact that we ALL pay for the cost of injuries, I think its reasonable that motorcycle and bicycle riders are forced to wear a helmet and take other precautions to reduce injuries.

If you don't want to wear a helmet, fine... as long as you don't expect other taxpayers to fund a lifetime of medical bills, rehabilitation and disability care.

[Weldangrind]

Same deal in Canada, and I agree completely.

[FastDoc]

"In Australia we also have a free national health and hospital service."

I would imagine it is NOT free but taxpayer supported....

This is of course the sort of socialized medicine the US is being forced into by our current administration.

I understand about 'public burden' and all which is one of the reasons I am opposed to socialized medicine but rather support individual responsibility and accountablity.

[FastDoc]

In a system such as your's and Canada's I think a national helmet law makes sense, although I would still be opposed, but it makes sense.

My opposition would be to the govenment run health care in the first place.

[Wild_Alaskan]

Another thing to consider is that it is possible not wearing a helmet will reduce life time health care costs of an individual. I have read a couple studies that found the total health care costs of smoking and obesity are actually lower than the people who live longer and build up medical conditions over the years until death.

perhaps the increased chance of instant death from wearing no helmet would offset the cost of vegetables?

[Wild_Alaskan]

for anyone interested

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/03/22/alcohol-obesity-and-smoking-do-not-cost-health-care-systems-money/

[FastDoc]

The best case scenario for a govenrment health care system is for a person to pay into it and finance others until he/she reaches an age when he/she may require services in return, and then die suddenly. This is the wet dream for govenment insurance planners.

A slow lingering death over perhaps decades (i.e. obesity, diabetes, heart disease) is where the real money gets spent.

Perhaps the future mandate will be for all riders over age 50 to be prohibited from wearing helmets, and they must ride 15 MPH over the posted speed limit at all times.

[alchemysa]

"In Australia we also have a free national health and hospital service."

I would imagine it is NOT free but taxpayer supported....

This is of course the sort of socialized medicine the US is being forced into by our current administration.

I understand about 'public burden' and all which is one of the reasons I am opposed to socialized medicine but rather support individual responsibility and accountablity.

Yes you are right about that of course. Its a significant drain on the tax system. So its reasonable that efforts should be made to keep costs under control.

As I understand it, its quite different from the proposed US model. There was never much opposition to it when it was introduced about 30 years ago. About half the population (such as myself) also has private health insurance over here. I think this private/free competition helps keep costs down.

[alchemysa]

I have read a couple studies that found the total health care costs of smoking and obesity are actually lower than the people who live longer and build up medical conditions over the years until death.

Yes its an inconvenient truth and the anti-smoking lobby wants it kept secret. Smokers pay far more in taxes and duties than they use up in medical costs. Anti-smokers want us to believe that smokers are a burden on the tax system but in fact its the non smokers who are a burden on the health and pension system. In Australia, smokers pay about 7 billion in taxes but use up only about 600 million in public health expenses. Smokers just tend to get sick and die.

(The figures above come from the website of the Victorian Anti-cancer foundation of all places).

[GlennR]

That's a real problem with health care in the US, the costs just keep getting higher & higher. The AMA, hospitals, insurance, pharmaceutical industry hold all the cards. It's a huge racket, and while we spend more per capita than any other country we do not achieve the best results.

Profits are more important to the health care "industry" than patients' health.... In this case Capitalism is a "conflict of interest". It's a bad situation.

[david3921]

As always, follow the money. Who benefits from helmet laws? I'm guessing insurance companies. They do not want to pay out long term care to riders that have head injuries. The problem is that I can get the exact same injury tripping while walking across the street. My head hits the pavement with the same force weither I'm walking at 2 mph or riding at 100 mph because of gavity. In fact, sitting closer to the ground on a cruiser, the force would be less because I would hit the ground sooner. I might have a few layers of skin scraped off but my head doesn't hit any harder. Yes there are other things to consider like falling off a bike, rolling, and hitting something at speed. But, that's not what I hear and read as to the reasons why we need helmet laws.

By the way, I always wear a helmet and it saved my face if not my life when I was hit by a car in '85. I do not believe they should be manditory, however.