Zongshen timing chain

[NW1]

Hi, my orion 250 has done in its chain i think. Where can i order a replacement and is there some pdf for the zongshen 250 around 2000 ? Like a service manual.

[SpudRider]

Welcome; we are glad you joined us. :hi:

I'm unfamiliar with your motorcycle. Do you own the motard version, or the dirt bike? Where did you purchase the vehicle? Can you post some photographs of the bike, particularly the engine? Photos will help us to identify your motorcycle. ;)

[NW1]

heres a photo

[NW1]

the bike behind it is the same and should have one but maby not a hot idea to swap it over.

[FastDoc]

Weld will verify, but I bet an XR 200 cam chain would work well.

[humanbeing]

Most vertical chinese "CB" series uses 25H-98L or 100L

[Weldangrind]

A CB200, like HB says. The XR is a different length. Use Google Chrome and visit www.taobao.com. Search for CB200 and then filter motorcycle parts.

[FastDoc]

Rats.

I am glad for the double check.

I should stick to brain and spleen replacements.

[humanbeing]

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=10841457996

[SpudRider]

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=10841457996

Thanks for posting the link, HumanBeing. :)

Will you please post the link for the official Zongshen parts website at Taobao?

[humanbeing]

Thanks for posting the link, HumanBeing. :)

Will you please post the link for the official Zongshen parts website at Taobao?

Most shop is on holiday.

Some migrant worker went "home" by their bike.
http://v.gdtv.cn/html/ItemId58/2014-01-27/122368.html (Nearby province that can speak the same dialect )

[NW1]

Thanks for the usefull and comprehensive info, i should be bangin again soon.

[Weldangrind]

Rats.

I am glad for the double check.

I should stick to brain and spleen replacements.

I'll take a new brain, if you have any available. Preferably a nice used model that has been educated.

[FastDoc]

Sorry Weld, I can't improve on your excellent, and saved, noggin.

[FastDoc]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v25/maule/commander/abbn_zps42c76ac5.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/maule/media/commander/abbn_zps42c76ac5.jpg.html)

[FastDoc]

The pics is small...

It's from Mel Brook's Young Frankenstein.

"DO NOT USE THIS BRAIN! ABNORMAL!

[FastDoc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH97lImrr0Q

[NW1]

2 pronged question, which bolts will give me access to bottom of timing chain and 2 turning it over with kick starter has the top of the chain shuddering but not turning, do you think the problem is the chain ?

[NW1]

Like his noodle

[SpudRider]

Your Honda cloned engine is different from my Yamaha cloned engine. However, I suspect you need to remove the flywheel in order to replace the timing chain. To perform this task you will need a flywheel holder, and the appropriate flywheel puller.

If the kick start won't rotate the crankshaft, something is wrong. However, this problem could result from a frozen piston or crankshaft, as well as the timing chain. :hmm:

[NW1]

The kik starter is moving the piston and flywheel normally, could the chain only have derailed or something, anyway are the flywheel pullers and holder a standard size to order ?

[Weldangrind]

I'm wondering if the tensioner is causing a problem. Perhaps Spud could chime in on that, since he knows the automatic version better than I do.

[NW1]

I was rolling down a hill with the clutch in at the time, the engine was idling and went dead.
I've only had it a month so i wasnt familiar with its normal sound but the middle man that sold it to me said something was noisey.

[SpudRider]

The kik starter is moving the piston and flywheel normally, could the chain only have derailed or something, anyway are the flywheel pullers and holder a standard size to order ?

If you actually need to replace the timing chain, you will need the appropriate flywheel puller which fits that particular Honda engine. You can purchase a generic, flywheel holder on the internet. Here's a link for one such flywheel holder. :)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PIT-POSSE-FLYWHEEL-PULLEY-HOLDER-MOTORCYCLE-TOOL-/400640218925?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d4804972d&vxp=mtr

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MjI5WDMwMQ==/$(KGrHqZHJCgE-edmB9lLBPvpWtfj8g~~60_12.JPG

[SpudRider]

The kik starter is moving the piston and flywheel normally, could the chain only have derailed or something, anyway are the flywheel pullers and holder a standard size to order ?

If the timing chain had derailed, you would not be able to start your engine. ;)

[SpudRider]

You can check the automatic, cam chain tensioner (ACCT) in the following manner.

1. Rotate the engine to top dead center (TDC) on the compression stroke, as if you were getting ready to inspect the valve lash.

2. Remove the ACCT, and inspect the plunger spring and mechanism.

3. Retract the plunger, re-install the ACCT, and then release the plunger.

[SpudRider]

The cam sprocket cover is located at the top, left side of the engine. You can remove the cam sprocket cover to see if the timing chain is under tension. You can also remove and inspect the ACCT as I explained in a previous post.

If the ACCT is defective, and the cam chain is loose, you will need to get another ACCT.

I am not too familiar with your engine. However, a previous post indicated it is a clone of a Honda CB200 engine. You need to verify this is accurate. If accurate, you will need a flywheel puller which fits the Honda CB200.

[NW1]

The cause.
I've got one in my spare motor

[NW1]

So when i press the tension lever with my finger and rotate the engine with the kik starter the timing chain will turn the cam sprocket. Is the timing now out from when the flywheel has tirned and the cam sprocket hasn't ?

[NW1]

Mabey before i replace the ASST i can get tdc on the spare engine and check its cam sprocket markings and repeat them on the engine i'm fixing.

[SpudRider]

Mabey before i replace the ASST i can get tdc on the spare engine and check its cam sprocket markings and repeat them on the engine i'm fixing.

Yes, that is exactly what I recommend. :tup:

[NW1]

A CB200, like HB says. The XR is a different length. Use Google Chrome and visit www.taobao.com. Search for CB200 and then filter motorcycle parts.

The cam chain may be the same bt i dont see this engine being a CB200 clone, search google cb200 picture.

[NW1]

From the spare motor

[SpudRider]

From the spare motor

http://www.chinariders.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=672&stc=1&d=1390736367

The above image seems to indicate the flywheel in the image below is close to top dead center (TDC).

http://www.chinariders.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=700&stc=1&d=1391427081

Is there a mark on the cylinder head which shows how the hash marks on the cam sprocket should align?

http://www.chinariders.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=699&stc=1&d=1391427081

[NW1]

The marks, - , on each side of the cam sprocket allign with the bottom of the top section of the head, the top gasket, perfectly. I cant see any marks relating to the marks on the flywheel.

[NW1]

Obv with the cam sprocket dot pointing down

[SpudRider]

The marks, - , on each side of the cam sprocket allign with the bottom of the top section of the head, the top gasket, perfectly. I cant see any marks relating to the marks on the flywheel.

You need to observe the TDC mark on the flywheel through the inspection hole of the left crankcase cover.

What makes you think something is wrong with the cam chain?

[NW1]

Ok, inspection hole.

At the start of this thread i thought the cam chain had snapped bt we discovered the tensioner was faulty.
This part of the thread is only concerned with lining the flywheel cog and the cam cog on the cam chain correctly before i install my spare tensioner.
The flywheel rotates without moving the cam chain if there is no tensioner.

[SpudRider]

Have you removed the automatic, cam chain tensioner (ACCT) and inspected it as I recommended? If so, how did you inspect it?

[NW1]

The cause.
I've got one in my spare motor

This is the tensioner, im now installing one from my spare motor

[NW1]

Photo in post #28

[SpudRider]

Okay, looking at the photograph in post #28, it seems the old ACCT is broken. It is well you have a spare ACCT.

Before I describe how to fix your problem, I need to know how much you understand regarding camshaft timing. Do you know how to inspect and adjust the valve clearances for your motorcycle?

[NW1]

No

[NW1]

Well ive done them on my huang shen 49cc.

The valves were good before how can the temsioner spring snapping alter them ?

[SpudRider]

Well ive done them on my huang shen 49cc.

The valves were good before how can the temsioner spring snapping alter them ?

That's exactly my point. ;) A damaged cam chain tensioner probably will not alter the cam chain timing, unless the cam chain skipped a tooth on the cam sprocket. However, you won't know for sure whether things are well unless you know how to check the valve clearances.

I suggest you read the following threads to learn the procedure for checking the valve lash/clearances.

http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=977
http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=4539

After you are familiar with that procedure, you need to correctly install your spare ACCT. After the ACCT is correctly installed, check the valve clearances. If everything checks out properly, you are in good shape, and you can ride your motorcycle.

[NW1]

When installing the automatic cam chain tensioner what pressure should i initially set it at ?

[SpudRider]

When installing the automatic cam chain tensioner what pressure should i initially set it at ?

You must fully retract the plunger of the ACCT before you install it. You should be able to remove the end cap, and insert a screwdriver inside the ACCT. Turning the screwdriver clockwise will retract the plunger. While keeping the plunger retracted, install the ACCT. Tighten the mounting bolts, and only then release the plunger. Finally, you can re-install the endcap on the ACCT. Technically, the engine should be at TDC when you install the ACCT.

After you properly install the ACCT, you should check the valve clearances. Do you have a manual for your bike? Do you know where the alignment mark for the cam sprocket is located on the cylinder head? Please post some closeup photographs of the cam sprocket and the cylinder head.

[Weldangrind]

Spud has given you excellent guidance, as usual.

I'll add that the hash marks on the cam gear line up with the valve cover to head line, as you suspected. With the tensioner in place and properly adjusted, the hash markes should be in line with the valve cover gasket, and the T line should be visible through the inspection hole.

It is possible that the cam chain jumped a tooth when the tensioner went south, so it should be carefully checked.

[NW1]

Everythings re-installed with new tensioner spring, piston at TDC, cam sprocket dot alligning with V notch on head (as pictured), flywheel mark visible through window (also pictured) and engine rotates with kik starter.

I now have to readup on checking the valve clearances. I dont have a torque wrench to get into the head for this so it may be a little while till my next post.

Thanks for the help so far.

[SpudRider]

You don't need a torque wrench to adjust the valve lash. Follow the procedure in the threads I listed, and you will do well. :)

[NW1]

PS the pitbike frame has year 2000 so this zongshen 250cc engine is probably 2000.