View Full Version : I am torn... help me decide.
I am new to all of this motorcycle stuff and I am wondering if I should go with a chinabike. Maybe you guys can help me.
Right now I own a moped. It's just a muck-around thing, but riding it around is dangerous because it's not able to keep up with traffic. If all I wanted to do was tool around my neighborhood this wouldn't be a problem, but I like to ride it to work and such when I can. So 200cc is going to be much better for me then my current 62cc.
Plus I like to muck around with mechanical things, doing mods and such. On cars it's much to expensive, but with motorcycles it's seems that it's usually do-able and I get to be more creative. Trouble is that I am currently pretty damn poor and it's going to be like this for a while.
Soo...
What I'd like to do is find a cheap dual sport bike and make it more streetable. I like the idea of having a 'SUV' or 'Adventure' sort of bike and not have to worry about trashing it by the occasional trail ride or dumping it in a alleyway. I also like a upright posture... I can get stuff like a honda rebel for around the same price as a Lifan or whatnot, but I don't like the idea of having my feet sticking out in front of me. I like the occasional sporty cornering also.
My idea is to take these things, change out the sprocket and make the gearing a bit taller and then make a small windscreen for it. Plus modify the seat (make it wider, better foam materal, etc) and such.
If I was to do that do you think that these 200cc's would be enough to carry me around at a extended cruising speed of 50 or so with occasional acceleration up to 65-70 (to meet traffic demands)? (country highway speeds around here are 60mph. I have no intention of taking it on anything with a faster speed limit. I am not so much worried about comfort, I just don't want to rag the engine out by overloading it.
Other concerns are that I want to have a reliable source of parts for these bikes, reliability issues, and hassles with the DMV. (I am in eastern Nebraska and it's hit or miss on how 'cool' the local DMV can be about oddness)
One other thing I am concerned about is that horrid rear suspension. I like the idea of the Yamaha R1 suspension mod that Red2003 described in
http://www.chinariders.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1315&
With the replacement scissor arrangement.
I noticed that people were complaining about engine bolts breaking and such and blaming it on cheesy bolts. But I know from other things that soft bolts can be a good thing... that when soft bolts break that they are taking the punishment.. acting as a sort of 'fusable link'. When you put very strong bolts on something like that (say grade 8) then all your going to do is cause something else to break instead, something probably much more expensive. Now it seems to me that this stress on the engine mounts could be caused by the frame flexing under constant pounding due to the very limited nature of the rear suspension. Fixing that rear suspension by making it all compliant would be the 'correct fix'.
Does this sound correct? (remember I have no experience with these bikes and I am just guessing)
Has anybody else done this mod? Or gone the simplier route and gotten rid of the linkage and gone for a direct mount of a shock on the swing arm? (how did that work out?)
So.... This is kinda my understanding of the China bike market. You have 3-4 big manufacturers and they do a lot of sharing of tech and they copy each other. Parts are fairly interchangeable.
Grey Market Lifans and Rebadged Lifans with sometimes 'unique' configurations are pretty common. I don't know if these are very attractive to me, they tend to be more expensive then other things and they lack dealer support.
American Lifans sound very attractive for me. If I buy one from a official dealer, like Motoxtreme.com or endlessjourneycycles.net and have them ship it to me does this mean that I can get support from American Lifan for parts and maybe the waranty? I don't mind the warenty, but I do like the idea of a reliable source of parts and supporting good dealers.
Then there is the Zongshen Seirra 200. I realy like the supermoto look on it. It spells out 'f-u-n'. It also seems to be a bit more of a oddball out... The Yamaha motor, in other threads people said it's smoother but less powerful then the Lifan stuff.
Now for the quality between the '07' American Lifans and Zongshen Sierra are comparable? I know that the general consensis is that the Zongshen is better then grey market Lifans, but that A-Lifan is better quality then those gray markets also. Does the Sierra suffer from that bad rear link setup?
If the Zongshen does not suffer from the bad rear suspension then that would be wonderful.
Then there is the Roteka.. I've gotten the impression that these tend to be of lower quality then the AL's. So I think I'd like to avoid them.
But with that 2007 Shineray DB-P12 is very very cheap. That's very cool.. or are they just plain cheap? How does the quality of the frame and such compared to the AL? Or are these things just a rebadged Roteka?
I want something more then just a play around bike.. I want something that is going to be dependable (as long as I remember to keep up on the maintenance, of course.)
Does the American Lifan seem a good match for what I want? Or should I get a used Jap bike?
parallax
08-10-2007, 04:13 PM
sounds like you want a china bike dual sport for sure...it would fit the bill...of inexpensive...easily modded...parts are fairly easy to find...etc..etc...
I ride my Shineray DB-P12 everyday...and i trail ride it "HARD" every weekend...nothing has failed...fallen off or broken...except the speedo cable...but i put a TT Vapor on it anyway...and the speedo cable was an easy fix...
i love the bike...nothing about it is cheap other than the price!!
You can see some of my video ride reports in the Ride Reports section.
My 2 cents...
kczukiman
08-10-2007, 04:27 PM
You know you have to wonder.Besides the price and finding a good dealer,
Is there a dimes worth of difference between most of them.You can find features on different bikes that you like more then others but it seems thats about it.
This forum is awsome for info about the different bikes thanks to the kind people who take the time to give their imput.
But then again I share the same delema because I plan to get a chinese made as well but I want mph on the speedo not kph.
good luck.
katoranger
08-10-2007, 04:27 PM
I think a china bike would be in order. Parts are not difficult to find, and they are cheaply and easily modded for your tastes. I have not had any engine problems or broken bolts, just lost some. You may be right on the soft bolt theory, but I feel better not having the vibes.
The speedee is a bargain from the reports. American Lifan have the warranty and better dealer support. And the Sierra looks nice.
My suspension is much softer now than it was 2 months ago. I also have ridden it off-road hard too with some jumps.
Allen
TeamCheap
08-10-2007, 05:18 PM
I'll comment on the bolts.
Soft stock bolts may not be the problem as I see it from BOTH bikes I have and have had to rebolt, the stock engine bolts ARE NOT sized correctly and allow movement of the engine which allows the bolts to be sheared off at the holes.
It's really a simple fix and more than anything I feel the bolts have to PROPERLY fit ALL the engine mounting holes to properly secure the engine.
We had broken stock bolts after only a few hundred miles of very easy riding on them (still breaking them in at the time) and I feel most/all of the damage was done by engine torque.
I have since pounded both bikes off roading and they have held up just fine but I know for a fact the stock bolts would have failed and left me stranded in the woods.(most likely with a frame folded in half)
I rode me bike so hard offroad last time that I heard the front forks bottom out a few times.(it is still fine)
As a final note I dont know how many atv's, motorcycles, minibikes, snowmobiles you have owned but all the ones I have owned have never EVER had loose/poorly fiiting engine mounting bolts like the ones installed on our china bikes but like I said it is an easy fix.
knothead
08-10-2007, 05:24 PM
I might be towing the line here, but I'll tell you up front how I feel about it. You can weigh everything up and decide for yourself.
I have an '07 Lifan, it's a decent bike for what it is but I'm findig myself unhappy with the bike's performance.
Here's a list of what I don't like and why:
1. it's underpowered, yes it's only a 200cc with 16hp. When I catch mself in heavy traffic I just don't have the power to manuver with the surrounding cars. The bike will max out around 70 mph, but it's slow getting there. The power is fine off road.
2. The suspension. You get the bare minimum. The ONLY adjustment you get is preload for the rear, on the road I get chatter in both front and rear in the turns, straight line at speed... the bike gets buffeted and wanders with the road conditions, it's not vey stable (again, it's a small displacement street and trail). You can tweak the suspension somewhat, but that is going to be limited without spending some change.
3. The brakes. While they are decent and I have had almost no trouble with mine, I think the quality of the components could/should be better.
4. The headlight it a total joke. I tried replacing the bulb, but it is the reflector assembly itself. IMO it's bad enough to make night riding something to be done only if you cannot avoid it.
You can buy a Chinese built bike and ride it for years... For the money you spend on one they are a good deal. BUT you do get what you pay for,they are very basic. If you want more power, a better suspension and better build quality, buy a used Japanese. For some people a Roketa, Lifan, etc... is just what they want and it suits them just fine. Me? I want more than this bike can resonable deliver without spending a fourtune on it (why spend the money jst to bring it closer to a stock jap bike?). Within the next month I will be replacing my Lifan with either a DR650 or a KLR650... possibly a DRZ400 SM.
Cliff's Notes version:
Chinese bikes are good, but vey basic. If you want a bike with power, a good suspension and quality components you'll be better off buying a used Japanese bike.
I know this post will not be popular here. But from my point of veiw it's an honest summation and not an attack on Chinese bikes. You have to look at what you're expecting the bike to do and decide if a small street and trail will suit you. In my case, it dosen't.
maf119l
08-10-2007, 05:50 PM
I'm partial to the american lifan brand.Bought mine from www.rpmrush.com so i have a dealer i can deal with if i have any problems.I've heard complaints about the headlight being dim,mine works fine.I've heard complaints about weak power.(i'm about 340 lbs and it hauls me fine)Mine is faster,has more power and more responsive than my 250cc Johnny Pag.(I still like it so i'm not giving it up either)I would gladly recommend the 200cc dual sports.My strongest recommendation to someone new to motorcycles is find a local dealer you can deal with on parts and warranty.If your mechanicly ? inclined and willing to forgo warranty and possibly delays getting parts buying one from a well rated Ebay dealer or website dealer is OK.My only complaint is the seat could use more cushion.
Savage
08-10-2007, 06:52 PM
You can come down and take mine for a spin and see if you like it.
Where are you in NE?
China bike's are good for what they're made for. Cruising around, trails, exploring. Not for long highway speeds or hardcore trail riding. I mean they'll do it, but I think you're asking for trouble if you push them too hard.
I like mine for what it is. Should be pretty easy to sell if I ever want to. They'd make great farm bikes to hop on and go check fences and animals and such.
TeamCheap
08-10-2007, 09:02 PM
KNOTHEAD I had a 91 DR650, great bike, lots and I mean lots of power but more suited to the road.I had mine up to 95MPH and it still had a little bit more(stock) but at that speed that bike is just to tall it was a bit scary.
It was very reliable and well built.Suspension was good enough for me.
The seat on the DR650 was no better, heck I think it was worse than our china bikes.
Offroad it had way to much power, was to tall and to heavy 1st & 2nd most the time 3rd if the trail opened up and you'd be going over 50mph.
Right now I'm thinking the suzuki DR-Z 400s (http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/DRZ400SK8/Default.aspx) is about the best balance of power, size and weight.(IMO)
Hrm..
Thank you for the replies. You've given me more to think about it and it sounds like you all are being very realistic, which is very nice.
The way it sounds is that these would be very good second bike. A "knock around" sort of thing. Again, thank you.
parallax
08-10-2007, 10:37 PM
I agree with the "Knock around" statement...but at the same time i knock it around only cause i paid so little...and wouldn't be that crushed if it broke down...or if i broke it from abuse...i could buy 5 for the price of 1 of the big 4...
That doesn't mean it's going to break down...in fact this is my only bike...and i'm not worried at all...it is very solid...
I would be more timid on a much more expensive bike...because of the shock to my wallet... 8O
I keep up just fine with all the hondas and suzukis i run with...or should i say...they do no better than i do...
My buddies suzuki 400cc is faster...but even though it is a dual sport...he doesn't trail ride it...
I'll go anywhere on this beotch!! :lol:
MOTOXtreme
08-10-2007, 10:48 PM
OK, Just my 2 cents here.
Yes, I am a dealer but I tend to look at everything as if I was buying the product myself.
I do not believe you could go wrong with am American Lifan at all. KNOTHEAD...I'm NOT pointing fingers here but... I find the power very impressive for a 200cc bike. Granted, I'm only 150lbs soaking wet, but impressive none the less. As for the other things I've heard about the headlight etc. This is a dual purpose bike, ment mainly for day driving anyway. If you want the best of both worlds for less than 1/2 the price of the "big 4" bikes, go with a china bike. American Lifan, -* Wink
I can say this. Replacing the fork oil is a big improvement in ride quality for both on/off road conditions.
It sure sounds like you've done your homework. Weigh the options you have and have fun with your new bike, whatever it may be.
Thanks, Brian
For a headlight mod I was thinking it would be fun to get a generic 7" headlight mount kit and go with a trailtech vapor. Those headlights would use automotive-style bulbs and are all over the place new/used and in kits.
(I like those vapors a lot and probably would end up doing to most any motorcycle)
then there are even generic fiberglass fairings and windshield kits that mount directly to those 7" headlights. Probably could find something on ebay for cheap.
knothead
08-10-2007, 11:42 PM
For a headlight mod I was thinking it would be fun to get a generic 7" headlight mount kit and go with a trailtech vapor. Those headlights would use automotive-style bulbs and are all over the place new/used and in kits.
(I like those vapors a lot and probably would end up doing to most any motorcycle)
then there are even generic fiberglass fairings and windshield kits that mount directly to those 7" headlights. Probably could find something on ebay for cheap.
The stock stator and wiring isn't up to pulling very much over the factory 35/35watt bulb. I tried a 55/60watt and it started to overheat the harness. I think you could go with a max of 45watts and be safe. I think auto bulbs are 55 watt max for the DOT approved. I've seen 120 watt bulbs but they are not legal in the US for street use.
That's good to know.
Maybe a HID conversion is in order. (seen a guy post about this previously on this board) Ebay has a crapload of cheap projector/housings from various automobiles. And a ballast/ingitor and bulbs aren't too much...
They are suppose draw 35 watts for the bulbs and 7 watts for the ballast, so that seems in-line with what the Lifan can handle. The only problem is that the amperage used at start-up is very high for the first few seconds, so the stock wiring isn't going to cut it. I suppose a heavier gage line from the battery with a relay and inline fuse is going to be needed also for something like that. That and a good quality battery.
All sorts of fun stuff is possible I suppose.
katoranger
08-11-2007, 08:44 AM
My American Lifan has met my expectations and then some. It is well worth the price paid, does fine offroad and on. I will agree with the lack of power for on-road, but it is fine below 60mph. I can cruise at 65 with no problem. I weigh about 140 though too. It handles fine up to about 65mph where its lightweight shows.
If you are looking for a bike that you can customize and have fun with and not break the bank then these are good buys.
If your plans are long road trips and hardcore offroad use then maybe not.
I have bottom out both front and rear suspensions doing things I never thought a Lifan would handle. It kept up with larger bikes in the woods too.
Allen
Cool. I am leaning more and more towards a A-L.
The only thing that still has me bugged is the rear suspension. I've been looking around on the internet for more info... I've found 2 people on this board that have done suspension modifications on the rear.. one was red2003 and the other was SamM.
Eliminating the rear link sounds like a good idea, simple is better.. but the unfortunate thing is that doing that requires a spring rate that is 2 times as stiff as linked-type suspension (generally). The only dirt bikes that use linkless type supsension seem to be KTM or Husabergs or other somewhat-more-exotic bikes. Used shocks from those sorts of folks tend to run around 150-200 dollars, which is just too expensive for these chinabikes.
Is there any Jap models that have linkless suspensions? Just because used Yamondasuki stuff is cheap...
Otherwise... It's a good thing I know how to weld. :)
katoranger
08-11-2007, 09:25 AM
I won't complain about mine, but it is somewhat hard and does not have much travel. It is working though and I am not ready to change it.
Allen
Savage
08-11-2007, 11:02 AM
My buddies suzuki 400cc is faster...but even though it is a dual sport...he doesn't trail ride it...
That's exactly the way I would be if I had a 4-7k dirt bike.
katoranger
08-11-2007, 11:30 AM
I think I would be more afraid of breaking me than the bike. That is a good reason to not have that kind of power.
I am happy with mine and I think I will get a smaller front sprocket for trail riding too.
Allen
knothead
08-11-2007, 04:22 PM
Cool. I am leaning more and more towards a A-L.
The only thing that still has me bugged is the rear suspension. I've been looking around on the internet for more info... I've found 2 people on this board that have done suspension modifications on the rear.. one was red2003 and the other was SamM.
Eliminating the rear link sounds like a good idea, simple is better.. but the unfortunate thing is that doing that requires a spring rate that is 2 times as stiff as linked-type suspension (generally). The only dirt bikes that use linkless type supsension seem to be KTM or Husabergs or other somewhat-more-exotic bikes. Used shocks from those sorts of folks tend to run around 150-200 dollars, which is just too expensive for these chinabikes.
Is there any Jap models that have linkless suspensions? Just because used Yamondasuki stuff is cheap...
Otherwise... It's a good thing I know how to weld. :)
The United Motors 200 has a linkless rear suspension.I just got back from the Kawasaki dealer and they have an '06 on the lot, oddly enough it has the counterbalanced Lifan engine (that the Lifans didn't get till '07)but with a bigger carb than my bike has.
knothead
08-11-2007, 04:41 PM
I get the feeling I need to clarify some of te things I said earlier. The Chinese bikes are not a bad buy. I know this will probably be true of the Lifans as Lifan is an ISO9001 certified company, that means the metals used and the tolerances held by the machining process MUST meet certain standards.. the same standards that BMW, Honda or any pther international company must meet.
The intent of my post was that, while they are good bike for the money, they are of a basic design. You won't get the things that make a Japanese bike so nice, like the higher grade suspension, brakes and electrical components. They have shortcomings (that's why they cost so low) and due to these shortcomings they are not going to suit everyone who rides them.
I just rode a new KLR, a DR 400, a DR650 and The Kaw 250 for kicks. The difference is like night and day. All, the Jap bikes are like Caddilacs where my Lifan would be a 1970 Beetle. The Beetle was a darn good car, but it's no Caddy, right? The point is you don't get a Caddilac for the price of a VW. And if everyone was happy with a Beetle that's all you would see on the road.
Ya, I understand what your saying. If you thought that these lifans just sucked then you'd be down at thumpertalk trolling the chinabike posts. :P
I understand that some of the engineering is lack-luster, that they are somewhat heavy and underpowered for this class of bike, and that they require somebody with some mechanical knowledge and ability to really be very useful.
But it seems like they make good, fun, and inexpensive transportation. A 2-wheeled jeep, so to say (back when Kaiser and Willys still made them, not modern Chrysler luxury SUVs)
Currently anything new from japan is _way_ out of my price range. The cheapest is going to be DR200SE at $4K. (and it's certainly not 2.5x the bike that a Lifan seems to be) I can find used bikes on Ebay for 2-3k, but when you factor shipping into it it's not going to be any cheaper then buying them new, plus who knows what problems are causing people to sell them. Locally there are some old dual sports and conversions from the 70-80's, but I have no clue about the reliability of these beasts and they aren't really any better then the Lifans...
So the A-L is high up on my list right now. I think that if I tinker with it and don't do anything that will break it then I can probably get it up to were it would be very nice compared to other bikes for my specific and modest requirements.
Barring any suprisingly good deal showing up in Craigslist or locally aviable on Ebay or a dealership I'll probably be back in here in a few weeks talking about my new Lifan. :)
TeamCheap
08-11-2007, 08:39 PM
We just got back from riding up north and once again my little china bike did just fine and the xr200 aftermarket junk pipe I put on it does do a nice job of making more useable power.
These bikes arnt to bad but box stock will leave you wanting more but getting more out of them can be done as proved by the pipe I added, it really was noticeable in the sand today.
knothead
08-11-2007, 09:43 PM
We just got back from riding up north and once again my little china bike did just fine and the xr200 aftermarket junk pipe I put on it does do a nice job of making more useable power.
These bikes arnt to bad but box stock will leave you wanting more but getting more out of them can be done as proved by the pipe I added, it really was noticeable in the sand today.
I got a good look at the United Motors 200 today, Lifan engine... it has a really nice exaust that I'm willng to bet will bolt on, plus it has a bigger carb and from the sound of it I think the cam is a bit hotter as well. I'm 95% certain that I just found a source of performance parts... the guys at the shop said the bike puts out arounf 22hp....
If that bike can output 22HP then I would be very suprised. That is more then most streetable 250's do from Japan. (Yamaha Virago 250 is 21hp, Honda Rebel 250 is 17hp, Honda Nighthawk has 20hp.)
Aren't they suppose to be like the Zongshen? Didn't other people say that those bikes have a bit less power then Lifans they've drove?
Maybe if it has a better intake and bigger carb they might be interesting, but I can find next to nothing on them on the internet. But with 22HP your looking at about a 40% increase in power.. I'd be a bit worried about the transmission. But I don't know.
knothead
08-12-2007, 02:16 AM
If that bike can output 22HP then I would be very suprised. That is more then most streetable 250's do from Japan. (Yamaha Virago 250 is 21hp, Honda Rebel 250 is 17hp, Honda Nighthawk has 20hp.)
Aren't they suppose to be like the Zongshen? Didn't other people say that those bikes have a bit less power then Lifans they've drove?
Maybe if it has a better intake and bigger carb they might be interesting, but I can find next to nothing on them on the internet. But with 22HP your looking at about a 40% increase in power.. I'd be a bit worried about the transmission. But I don't know.
I take the 22hp with a grain of salt, it was a stealership afterall! If I read the carb right I think it was a 30mm though.
I found the United Motors through the http://www.endlessjourneycycles.net/ website...
HOLY CRAP.
These are the guys that are working with Hyosung! A Korean motorcycle company with good success already in the US sports bike world. I recognized their bikes on their website!
http://www.hyosungmotorsusa.com/product/roadsport/main.asp?Product=RoadSports
http://www.cbxmanmotorcycles.com/hyosung-gt-250-comet-sport-motorcycle.aspx
http://www.umamerica.com/site/usa/motorcycles/sp/features/features1.html#usa_motosp1
If you look at the pictures closely you'll see that on the exposed bits in the UM V2S-250R and the Hyosung GT250 are identical.
It looks like UM is now selling Hyosung motorcycles.
This is very cool. UM apparently is a US-based company doing R&D out of the US and in China.
http://www.dirtrider.com/news/141_0603_hyosung_united_motors_agreement/
I don't know anything about UM, but Hyosung's 250 Comet kicks the ass of any comparable Japanese bike aviable in the U.S.
Not because their tech is out-of-this-world or whatever, but because Japanese have largely neglected small engines in the US. The Hyosung 250 is actually using fairly modern kit with dual overhead cames and 4 valves per cylinder.
The Comet was developed to share the same frame between the 250 and 650 models, but they ended up making a new frame for the 650. This means for the size of the engine the Comet is a big bike.
The only comparable bike from Japan aviable in the US is the Kawasaki EX250 Ninja, which is the fastest small displacement bike in the US. The Ninja is smaller and lighter but the Hyosung Comet is still much faster.
Now for the Hyosung 650 the naked model is actually somewhat popular in the US for being best-bang-for-the-buck in it's class. The build quality is not up to current Japanese standards, but it's cheap and it's fast.
So if Hyosung did some R&D for UM for their dirt bikes and warmed over the lifan engines then I have no doubt that they could of easily gotten 22HP. Better tuned carb, better exhaust, some port matching, a cam change, etc. I doubt it would of taken more then a month for a couple engineers and a dyno.
If they don't have that dreadfull linked rear suspension then these bikes could be pretty good rivals with the xt225 or the dr200.
I AM VERY CURIOUS! Anybody got more information on these bikes?
From UM's website:
http://www.umamerica.com/site/usa/warranty.html
We are confident about the products we build and this is why UM offers you the best Factory Limited Warranty in the industry. When you purchase a new UM product you enjoy the peace of mind of having a parts and labor, 3 year limted warranty protecting your motorcycle, scooter or ATV.
Street Legal products come standard with an 18 month, Fender to Fender warranty.
Off Road products come standard with a 12 month Fender to Fender warranty.
All products are protected by a 3 year limited powertrain warranty.
For detailed information on UM's warranty please download the file below.
This is very cool.
The old saying is true, "You get what you pay for!" The value is relevant to what you expect. These china bikes are well worth the low entry price that you can get into one for but... the used Japanese market is full of great deals everyday. You just need to look around and be ready to buy on short notice. In other words, have your cash handy and be ready to jump on a deal! My recent finds include a used 2004 Yamaha TT-R250 for $1600. I passed on it, as I already have one. This bike can easily be plated in my state. I'm plating mine now. Another recent find was a 2001 Suzuki DR200SE with 43 miles on it for $1900. This bike was beautiful in every way. It needed very little and had only one small scrape on the tank. It was a great deal. Used Yamaha XT225 dualsport motorcycles can be found at very reasonable prices everyday. I've seen these go for as little as $800 in very good condition. I also found a used DR350 for $1000 a few months ago. That bike was easily worth $1000.
If you are considering a china bike for off-road use or occasional off-road trail use, you may want to rethink that! Sure it can be done and you may have some success with that but the odds are going to be against you in the long run. The cheaper made chinese components are not up to that task. Just finding a replacement shock that will work on the bike if yours blows, is not going to be an easy thing to do. Eliminating the linkage is not as easy as it sounds. I did it with some success and could have finished that project but the return on my investment was getting expensive. My TT-R250 was a better bike and the china bike was not worth spending any more $$$ on IMHO. It wasn't going to give me much of a return on my investment, as I have a similar bike of much better quality. The TT-R will easily do serious off-road duty and street commuting, all day long! And it has a 6-speed transmission and I just added a kickstarter kit.
On the other hand, using one of these as an inexpensive replacement or alternative to a cheap scooter is very doable, as long as you use it like a scooter. Taking it up a dirt road every once in awhile will work out ok and the bike will get great mileage for you but use it like a scooter.
You may agree with these assessment and you may not agree. That's fine! The truth comes down to what you want and how much you have to spend. One thing is for sure, these china bikes will get better and better has time goes on. Someday soon, the chinese will be building bikes that all of us will want to buy!
Yep. I haven't stopped looking. I would love to get my hands on a Dr200, KLR250, or xt225. Now those newer KLX250s'? Those would be to die for. I bet they are a blast.
But these UM's show some promise... The 3 year powertrain warrentee is a good sign. Hope they honor it.
Keep in mind that my current bike is a moped. :) It's a old 2-speed puch that I've added a larger carburetor, 62cc cylinder kit, and Biturbo racing exhaust. Damn thing gets about 45mph on a flat road when it's running well. It's hilarious... when the rear wheel hits a pothole with a 'clunk' anything not tied down in my milk crate strapped to the back will shoot out like a rocket. Love it, except when I need to go up hills. When I lean around corners I need to make sure that the pedal on the side I am turning is up so that it doesn't scrape and toss me off. Pretty soon I'll be able to hit corners without slowing down.
What was even funner was when me and my brother went trail riding on some mellow ATV trails... Him in his lumbering 1982 Suzuki GS550 and me on my moped. We both weren't exactly quick about it nor was I looking to hit any jumps.
More or less I want something like my moped that I can keep up with traffic on. :)
AZ200cc
08-12-2007, 01:04 PM
I like my Chinese bike, Even though it is not an AL bike I feel it was a great buy..But I picked it up used so I got a deal. So far what I like about the bike is the Motor is very strong..And the bike itself seems solid for the price. The rear suspension will handle very basic trailriding with ease. But if You plan on Jumping it a lot buy Japanese. I have jumped mine and ran it over large rocks and took it top speed down the road..No problems at all so far mechanically. What I have noticed is that the rear bottoms out on small jumps..The rubber is rotting that holds thing like the coil to the body..The cables are subpar, The lights are junk...All things that can be fixed...But will be problems. I would never use this bike as a commuter bike though, It does not have enough power to get you out of bad situations. Great trailrider, Good beer fetcher..Lots of fun on backroads...Not a highway bike. The bikes are getting better and better though and soon enough they will be right in line with the other bikes on the market. But by that time they will all cost about the same.
I really like they Hyosun is making some of these bikes now, i wish I could ride one :D
Well I don't think that they are made by Hyosung. But Maybe they have something to do with it. I haven't a clue. I know Hyosung has had some success and it's street bikes have gotten good reviews.
They have a linkless suspsension rear suspension which while normally a either a negative or so-so thing on jap bikes it has to be a good thing compared to the very bad linked design other chinabikes.
Is there any dealer here on Chinariders.net that sells UM dual sport bikes? There isn't a dealer close by, but there is one within travel distance from me. I requested a quote, but unless I hear back from them...
Trouble is with them msrp of 2800 or so I can get a almost-new Yamaha xt225 off of ebay for only a couple hundred bucks more when you take shipping into account. I would like to know more about these bikes. :)
AZ200cc
08-12-2007, 02:41 PM
Sorry, I just noticed a Hyosung Dirtbike and added that into my post,
I don't know of any dealers on here that sell united motors..But all of this led to me finding a Hyosung I am curious about. :D
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/Hyosung/hyosung_xrx_400%2005.htm
Either way the prices keep going up....If the suspension is going to be a
hangup...I would go Jap. Have You checked out Craigslist? You can find some good deal on that site.
Have You checked out Craigslist?
How about 5 times so far today? :D
knothead
08-12-2007, 03:04 PM
Nate:
The weight difference between the GT 250 and GT 650 is only 80lbs. I have sat on both bikes and the difference in size is negligible. The difference in price is about $1000. I don't see the 250 surviving very long in the American market.
If you guys would like I can take pics of some of the UM bikes. The 200 trail bike is huge in comparison to my Lifan. It's taller and longer but lighter. And it does NOT have the linked rear suspension, the shock is directly mounted to the swinger and has a remote resivoir with compression and rebound adjustments. The welds are nicer and the frame has re-enforcements where the swinger and engine mount. Price was marked $2900 but they priced it for $2200.
Sam:
My point exactly!
Where do you live? If you're not too far away and can find a deal like that DR350 again I'd like to talk business with you. [/b]
ambassador
08-12-2007, 09:54 PM
Sam,
You couldn't be more right, they're patterned after the old Honda XR's but they won't hold up like them... Give it time though...
knothead & ambassador,
Don't misunderstand me! I really like these china bikes but... they're not quite where I want them to be yet! Someday soon, they will be and I'll part with my money again. I just bought a 1980 something Honda XL350 for $350. I need to go pick it up this week. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it yet. I may just part it out! I could keep the engine and install it in my Jialing frame or just rebuild it. We'll have to wait and see.
I live in West Virginia. There are bikes everywhere here. I friend of mine just bought a 2005 Suzuki Burgman 400 for $4200. The bike had 10 miles on it when he picked it up last week. It retails for over $6000. It was a bit pricey but a great deal. I rode it today. Lots of power and clean looks. I was very impressed with it.
I was in Guatemala for the past few weeks and everyone there rides a china bike or a small Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki bike. The Honda Storm really impressed me. Not a china bike but a nice little ride none the less. The local Policia rode a Kymco dualsport that was VERY nice. It looked to be a quality bike. They REALLY don't like you to take their picture, so I never got a chance to snap one of that bike. They carry UZI and AK machineguns, so I wasn't going to argue over a picture or take a chance getting caught taking one either. I did manage to snap the bottom picture when we were stopped at a Policia checkpoint! His back was turned as he walked up to a car he stopped. When a policeman carrying an AK says stop, you'd better stop! Sorry for the large picture. You'd never see the rifle if it was smaller!
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3753/img1769ai1.jpg
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/5008/img1690fv7.jpg
After looking through my pictures again, I found one of a civilian version of the Kymco Police dualsport motorcycle. I'm not sure what size the engine is. It may be 500cc or more. The police bikes are white but look the same.
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4869/img1551of0.jpg
knothead
08-13-2007, 12:49 AM
Sam:
I may sound harsh, but I do like my bike, honestly. But it really dosen't suit where and how I ride. Once the Chinese pick up the pace and star building more advanced hardware I'm sure they will be as good as anything out there.
That little Honda reminds me. When I was Looking at new bike, the dealer had a Daelim (SP??) 125 road bike... that thing was really nice! Disk brakes all the way around (IIRC it had dual disks up front) and really was built like a full on sport bike. It even had clip ons and the quality looked outstanding... if it had more cc's I's really be interested in one.
W. Va isn't too far. I'm in E. Tn.... couple of hours drive time depending on location. The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to buy a bike to build instead of a new one.
Nate:
If you're coming from a scooter background chances are you'll be really happy buying a Lifan. Buy one, ride the wheels off of it and save up until you find the exact bike you want.
knothead,
I'll keep my eyes peeled for a deal on a used bike. If I find one, I'll PM you. You're right, you're not that far away!
I'll probably part out this Honda XL350 to build up some capital for a new
bike. I like the new KLR650 but it is very similar to my 950 Adventure. I
have been toying with the thought of selling the KTM again. A tricked out
KLR and a Kymco Xciting 500 would serve me well. With the Yamaha TT-R
used for off-road adventures. We'll see!
SamM
pumpkin
08-13-2007, 02:33 PM
i bought my AL because at the time that's what i could afford. it is a great starter bike. pretty good on non highway roads speeds of 55mph or less. it is great for running around town. ok for trail riding. i have had it off road one time and it did ok although the trails were not that agresive. i've also taken it on a 300 mile trip through the WV hills whitch going up hill i could have used a little more pep, but i'm pushin 250 lbs. all in all it has done everything i thought it would do, but i had low expectations. if you get a china bike remember it is not a jap bike. i like mine, but it's the first on road bike i've ever owned.
Well I do appreciate all your help and all, but I think I got a good score off of craigslist.
If the the guy doesn't break our agreement then by this time tomorrow I'll be a owner of a used Kawasaki Ninja 250r. It's a 2004 model with 5k, with 'streetfighter'-style fairing. $1k. I think I'd have a hard time beating that deal.
I still want a dual sport for mild trail riding, but since I should be having a reliable motorcycle shortly it's a luxury thing and I can't justify getting one right now. Maybe next year.
But I'd just like to say thanks, this forum (and everybody in it) has a very positive attitude.
I think that in the near future, say 5 years or so, the market for small engined motorcycles are going to boom. I thinking 175cc - 400cc engines, which is a market largely neglected by Japanese in the US, besides a small number of 'starter bikes' that are essentially throw away models (as far as dealers are concerned) to help convince people to move to the midrange 600cc-ish market. (they buy the small bike, get comfortable, then buy something bigger)
I think this way because right now most people who buy bikes are enthusiast's. They are interested in looking cool in a cruiser, having fun off-road, or want the experience of having fast sports vehicle.. getting high-end performance at a fraction of a cost of a high-end automobile.
As gas prices are going up, the cost of credit increases, and the cost of automobiles increase then people are going to start looking more and more at smaller displacement, basic, motorcycles to fulfill the need for a second car or to just save money and gas. It'll be more like in other countries were two-wheeled vehicles are standard. For people that want basic and economical transportation larger bikes are entirely counter-productive.
Chinabikes may play a much larger role in that. The competition will keep the Jap and the European makers honest about prices and the Jap and European makers will keep the Chinese honest about quality.
The only disappointing thing is the lack of U.S manufacturers for motorcycles. It's very depressing.
AZ200cc
08-14-2007, 12:38 AM
Americans make money, No matter what country it is made in..And we do have a lot of bike builders..Choppers ATK and *Yuck* Harley etc..But either way...Good news on the Ninja, Make sure it was not used as a stunt bike :wink:. I am not sure which Chinese brand is going to make it's mark the most...But be sure one of them will :D ..ANd the Japanese are going to have to finally lower the prices to keep customers rolling in. :lol:
fatboy250
08-14-2007, 10:39 AM
More or less I want something like my moped that I can keep up with traffic on. :)
I've been pleased with mine for that similar purpose. Just under 10k miles since 10/06. No real complaints that aren't common to all these china bikes.
Just as a point of reference. The '07 DB-07B has no linkage for the rear shock if this interest you. It's much more comfortable than the '06 DB-07A that I have.
Jason
IronFist
08-14-2007, 05:40 PM
"They" say that in toronto people are getting older and not riding as much. I've noticed several older bike stores fold. "They" say that soon there will be lots of really good used bikes flooding the market up here. But it hasn't happened yet, and I was tired of waiting. You should see what kind of motorcycle you get up here for a 1000$. Rolling chassises. Maybe the motor for your bike, used and not working. If I could have got a ninja 250 for 1000$ I probably wouldn't be riding a china bike. Maybe $2200. At least when bike prices come down I'll have my licence, I'll know how to ride, and I should know how to wrench too by then. :D
Something to look forward to.
I've only road it once for more then a few miles (from my parents house to my own house to sit till I get licensed and it registered), but if anybody wants a smaller road bike the ninja 250 kicks serious ass.
My route was my normal moped route.. which is to use industrial areas and side roads as much as possible to avoid traffic and stop signs. A few twisty areas... riding on this thing at medium speeds is like riding a rock or something. It's hard to describe just how stable the thing feels, it's like your just along with the ride. Of course this is just coming from a moped.
My brother has his GS550 and has been riding for a couple years now, but even though this was my first time I was just walking away from him in the curves.. it took very little effort on my part. He was very surprised. It's a good starter bike and very easy to ride and even though it's just a 250 it's sooo easy to get false confidence and get way over your head way too quickly. It's almost scary.
People who buy 600cc motorcycles as 'starter bikes' are either very misguided or just out of their minds.
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