Tourfella fit and finish

[DanKearney]

Howdy all,

Rec'd my Tourfella kit this afternoon. Boxes look well built and have a good finish. Rack fabrication, not so much.

I've got them mounted, but the left-side rack is canted inwards and the left-hand turn signal actually touches the side of the case. Also, the left-hand rack is about an inch to inch-and-a-half forward of the right-hand case. I had to add a nylon spacer and use a longer bolt at the top forward left-hand mount point to force the rack to cant at least far enough outward so the turn signal doesn't hit it.

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/KearneyDan/RX-3%20Cyclone/PICT0029.jpg

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/KearneyDan/RX-3%20Cyclone/PICT0021.jpg

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/KearneyDan/RX-3%20Cyclone/PICT0023copy.jpg

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/KearneyDan/RX-3%20Cyclone/PICT0024%20copy_1.jpg

My only guess is that whomever welded the left-side rack had a hangover, or doesn't use a jig.

Really disappointed. I will contact CSC tomorrow morning. Looks like I'm gonna have to re-mount the OEM rack and boxes for my trip this weekend.

I'm bummed.

Cheers,

Dan K.

[dave92029]

It's too bad that the bags did fit the first time, but they do look very good. It looks like it would be easy to strap a tent and sleeping bag on top of the new bags.

How heavy are the bags compared to the oem plastic bags?

[detours]

They're good looking boxes! I've seen other reports of the racks not fitting quite right and needing spacers. It's too bad they won't be ready for your campout.

[SpudRider]

Thanks for posting the honest review, and including the excellent photographs. :)

[AZRider]

Is it possible that the rack got "racked" during shipping from China? When you weld using a jig, a misalignment should be nigh on impossible.

[Weldangrind]

Quite out of context, I love seeing the Ural hack wheel in the background. I formally request threads on your other rides. Pretty please.

[Eco Mouse]

Some of the better pannier systems re-route your turn signals to brackets that make them more conspicuous, as well as tuck the actual boxes in closer to the bike.

[DanKearney]

Spoke with CSC this afternoon. They're going to ship out a new left-side rack for me. Hopefully that'll be the fix.

Cheers,

Dan K.

[SpudRider]

:tup:

[DanKearney]

Rec'd a replacement left-side rack from CSC the other day. Finally got round to trying it today. Sadly, it is exactly the same as the original. I can only guess at this point that this is how these things are manufactured.

I'd like to hear the opinion of some other folks who have the Tourfellas mounted. Are yours like this?

I originally inserted 1 then 2 nylon spacers in between the rack and the frame to spread it apart. That worked OK. Today I visited the hardware store and purchased a longer bolt and a couple of nuts and now I've got it so that at least the bag doesn't tilt inwards against the turn signal anymore. There's nothing I can do about the left-side bag being nearly two inches forward of the right-side bag however.

If there were a second aftermarket pannier set available, I'd send these back to CSC for a refund. As they're the only game in town, I guess I'll live with it. I really like the boxes, they're good quality and much more practical than the OEM bags.

Here's my solution:

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/KearneyDan/RX-3%20Cyclone/IMG_0171.jpg

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/KearneyDan/RX-3%20Cyclone/IMG_0170.jpg

So the mounting went from this:

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/KearneyDan/RX-3%20Cyclone/PICT0025.jpg

to this:

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/KearneyDan/RX-3%20Cyclone/IMG_0172.jpg

Cheers,

Dan K.

[SpudRider]

That is an ingenious, China Rider's solution. :tup: Thanks for posting the update, and your honest review. ;)

[detours]

Nice solution! At least the boxes are working out.

[Weldangrind]

That looks much better.

The plated bolts will be ok for awhile, but you might choose to install SS bolts in the future, so they don't rust.

[detours]

I like those big block tires. Definitely going with those when my 804/805s wear out.

[SpudRider]

X2; the Kenda Big Block, rear tire looks great. :tup:

[DanKearney]

I just got the new front 19" with Kenda Big Block installed a few days ago (Had to wait for a new brake disc) so I only have a few miles with both tires mounted. Leaving for a ~700 mile ride tormorrow morning that includes a bunch of Forest Service roads. I'm expecting much better dirt handling with these on, but only experience will tell.

Cheers,

Dan K.

[detours]

You're going to really like that big wheel up front. Sounds like an epic trip. Where are you going?

[SpudRider]

Please take lots of photographs, and post a ride report. :tup:

[DanKearney]

Headed down to Sipapu Ski area SW of Taos for the annual BMW rally. Great riding area.

Cheers,

Dan K.

[keithmaine]

Are there anymore owners who have these bags that could add to this review, Or Dan could you follow up after having used both sets of luggage, and give your impressions of both.
Thanks

Of course we know they cannot hold as much gear as a Ural hack can.

[detours]

I'm also curious how the spacers are holding up and how those big boxes affected handling and power on your trip to Taos.

[DanKearney]

KeithMaine,

My last round of email with CSC they offered to send me an entire replacement pannier frame set. I think we had a mis-communication with my response to that offer, and there's been no movement on that front for over a month.

My procrastination and "good enough is good enough" attitude kinda means this issue is closed. I've accepted the situation and moved on.

The Tourfellas themselves are well made and much more practical for traveling than the OEM ones. An added plus is they don't leak like the OEM ones.

Detours,

The bolt and nuts I used to force/space out the rack have held up just fine. I did purchase a grade 8.8 bolt to replace the softer one I installed, but for now it is just sitting in the bottom of one of the panniers waiting for the original to break.

I haven't taken a fall on the panniers or rack (yet. . .) so they haven't been tested to failure, but it looks like it's a reasonable solution.

As for handling, I perceive no difference in handling of the bike as compared to when the OEM panniers were on.

Cheers,

Dan K.

[keithmaine]

Dan

thanks for the quick response, I will be ordering a bike for spring and I'm looking for all the info to make an informed decision as to what I want and need on this bike. Knowing you from your post on Soviet Steeds and your blog I have come to appreciate your input. I am sure all on this forum do as well.

[Riceburner]

DanKearney, thanks for the up date, I'm sure your going to enjoy your trip... :hi: (in this case, that's a Bye-Bye, see you later)...

[keithmaine]

I have received my Tourfella pannier set and will add to Dan's review

I find fit and finish good, thickness of aluminum is reasonable, latches are very nice, and locks look good (all keyed alike 4 keys provided). Here are a few shots of the luggage prior to install. There are no instructions provided just a bag of hardware. But there is a CSC blog link here that shows photos
http://californiascooterco.com/blog/?p=17316

Packaging was excellent plenty of bubble wrap and peanuts.

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/hogmaine/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135019_zpsv8uon6r9.jpg (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/hogmaine/media/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135019_zpsv8uon6r9.jpg.html)

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/hogmaine/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135705_zpsfkpy3cdt.jpg (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/hogmaine/media/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135705_zpsfkpy3cdt.jpg.html)
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/hogmaine/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135725_zpsiuyamob2.jpg (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/hogmaine/media/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135725_zpsiuyamob2.jpg.html)

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/hogmaine/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135924_zpsia4doco4.jpg (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/hogmaine/media/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135924_zpsia4doco4.jpg.html)

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/hogmaine/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135938_zpsyo2al2zh.jpg (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/hogmaine/media/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135938_zpsyo2al2zh.jpg.html)

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/hogmaine/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135953_zpsfcit4k3r.jpg (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/hogmaine/media/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135953_zpsfcit4k3r.jpg.html)

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/hogmaine/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135407_zpsw9n2wyt6.jpg (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/hogmaine/media/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135407_zpsw9n2wyt6.jpg.html)

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/hogmaine/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135329_zpsh9czjxqu.jpg (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/hogmaine/media/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135329_zpsh9czjxqu.jpg.html)

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/hogmaine/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135320_zpspwy6butc.jpg (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/hogmaine/media/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135320_zpspwy6butc.jpg.html)

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/hogmaine/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135309_zpsyha0lvos.jpg (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/hogmaine/media/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135309_zpsyha0lvos.jpg.html)

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/hogmaine/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135303_zpset8i8j4g.jpg (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/hogmaine/media/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135303_zpset8i8j4g.jpg.html)

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/hogmaine/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135118_zps5x8yyzal.jpg (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/hogmaine/media/CSC%20RX3/20151205_135118_zps5x8yyzal.jpg.html)

[keithmaine]

I also found this link

https://youtu.be/Vb-eL02LAq0

[rjmorel]

Excellente' report and pics Keithmaine. I like those, rj

[keithmaine]

Excellente' report and pics Keithmaine. I like those, rj

I will post photos of the Tourfella install as well as stock luggage removal.
As soon as it actually happens :lmao: no really I will try to get to it this week

[SpudRider]

I also found this link

https://youtu.be/Vb-eL02LAq0

Thanks for posting your initial impressions, along with the excellent photos. :tup:

Here is the embedded link, Keith. :) Indeed, the Tourfella cases are rugged and well manufactured, as befits a Zongshen motorcycle. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb-eL02LAq0

[keithmaine]

Spud,
thanks for embedding that video

[SpudRider]

You're welcome. We eagerly await further updates on your Tourfella luggage system. :)

[DanKearney]

I will post photos of the Tourfella install as well as stock luggage removal.
As soon as it actually happens :lmao: no really I will try to get to it this week

I am quite interested to see if you have the same fitment problem I did. Looking forward to your follow-up.

Cheers,

Dan K.

[RedHawk47]

My Tourfellas were factory installed, but I have a hint to pass on.
The curved bar across the back looked a bit wonky on my bike. With some thought, I realized that because the right rack is out further than the left, to clear the muffler, the curve in the bar is off center. But the bar was installed reversed on my bike, which made it look strange. I flipped it around and it looks better now.
Dan

[keithmaine]

My Tourfellas were factory installed, but I have a hint to pass on.
The curved bar across the back looked a bit wonky on my bike. With some thought, I realized that because the right rack is out further than the left, to clear the muffler, the curve in the bar is off center. But the bar was installed reversed on my bike, which made it look strange. I flipped it around and it looks better now.
Dan

Thanks I will watch out for this

[DanKearney]

My Tourfellas were factory installed. . . Dan

RedHawk,

Did your pannier setup exhibit any of the mis-alignment issues that I posted at the beginning of this thread?

Cheers,

Dan K.

[RedHawk47]

RedHawk,

Did your pannier setup exhibit any of the mis-alignment issues that I posted at the beginning of this thread?

Cheers,

Dan K.

My left rack has a 3/16" spacer and the bag clears the turn light. It has a small lean in but I figure the first tip-over will fix that. I haven't notice the front/back alignment - I'll check it tomorrow.

[keithmaine]

I found these Tourfella accessories

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Base-Plate-for-Tourfella-accessories-available-for-panniers-Patent-product/1836128_1717938885.html

http://img.en.easthardware.net/upload/t/t3/tourfella/picture/2015/08/25/48548046-bd35-4091-8d54-ad9433a9774e_5.jpg

http://g02.s.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1JQgrIXXXXXb2XpXXq6xXFXXXa/Tourfella-Motorcycle-carrier-box-40L-or-28L.jpg

http://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/167/729/082/1082729167_523.jpg

[Weldangrind]

Those accessories make the Tourfella system even more versatile. I like the idea of being able to strap a sleeping bag to the top of the trunk, and attaching manual canisters full of fuel or tools to the back of the panniers.

[SpudRider]

I found these Tourfella accessories

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Base-Plate-for-Tourfella-accessories-available-for-panniers-Patent-product/1836128_1717938885.html



Thanks for sharing the good information, Keith. :)

[keithmaine]

I cannot see why these could not be used with almost any pannier system.

The way I am going makes me really glad the setup started out with a $3500 bike and not $20,000 BMW. :lmao:

[keithmaine]

Mounting the Tourfella system was not bad until I started installing the left side brackets, more on this later. The attachment of the top/rear rack is simple remove stock boxes which is a very nice sturdy setup. I mostly left the stock system together just removing bolts necessary to take the rack off the bike. The Tourfella system mounts in the same fashion as the stock system the new top rack mounts in place of the stock top plate, one bolt and spacer on top and where the grab rails were. The side racks mount under seat in same location and to the top rack. There is a support bar that goes under the tail light and around to each side bracket (please see photos). Two struts one on each side ( note the left strut support is marked "L" ) that come off the back of the passenger pegs and attach to tabs on the frames, the setup is pretty sturdy.

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/hogmaine/CSC%20RX3/20151211_144327_zps9uibg117.jpg (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/hogmaine/media/CSC%20RX3/20151211_144327_zps9uibg117.jpg.html)
Top plate mount

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/hogmaine/CSC%20RX3/20151211_144340_zpshgeoea2f.jpg (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/hogmaine/media/CSC%20RX3/20151211_144340_zpshgeoea2f.jpg.html)
Top plate spacer

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/hogmaine/CSC%20RX3/4e1ea77e-e50d-4324-badc-9194bb9f30fa_zpskyv5tdom.jpg (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/hogmaine/media/CSC%20RX3/4e1ea77e-e50d-4324-badc-9194bb9f30fa_zpskyv5tdom.jpg.html)
The two vertical struts in the photo join together under the seat, you will note that the right is longer by about an inch. If you look at the top of the frame you will see another attachment point circled in red this attaches where the grab handles bolts attached this I believe where the major flaw lies the attachment for the left side should be like the right side with a bend to move the rail away from the directional lights.

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/hogmaine/CSC%20RX3/20151211_144847_zpsnkprmclk.jpg (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/hogmaine/media/CSC%20RX3/20151211_144847_zpsnkprmclk.jpg.html)
Rear bracket ties the side plates together note the longer right side, these attach to the tabs on the vertical tabs far left and far right side of frames on the previous photo.

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/hogmaine/CSC%20RX3/20151211_154502_zpsafbpn206.jpg (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/hogmaine/media/CSC%20RX3/20151211_154502_zpsafbpn206.jpg.html)
The 2x4 in the photo was needed for persuasion with mounting the side bracket to the top rack this is the location others have had the same issue. The welded tab needs to be redesigned to move the frame away from the left directional light. I used a cap screw with two nuts for adjustability but will make a spacer the proper size and replace the cap screw.

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/hogmaine/CSC%20RX3/20151211_154436_zpsgqug63fk.jpg (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/hogmaine/media/CSC%20RX3/20151211_154436_zpsgqug63fk.jpg.html)

If you look in this photo it better shows how much of a spacer is needed so the box does not hit the directional light. Also you can see the bung on the back of the passenger peg as I have yet to install the strut that comes from the rear of the peg to the side frame tab. At the position I have it in currently my left box has about 1/4" clearance.

The boxes mount very snug and take some persuasion to attach to the frames, secured by 2 big knobs which are very easy to use. (Note there is a little acorn nut on the end of the tightening bolt that locks the knobs from coming loose) these knobs are inside the boxes. The top box drops into 4 keyholes and then slid back to lock in place, held by one knob inside the box that spins down to secure the box from moving out of the keyholes. When the boxes are locked the boxes cannot be removed. The locks work well and the lids clamp down water tight. All and all a nice system well worth the price paid. The one exception as stated above is a correction of the top mounting tab design.

Please if anyone has question feel free to fire away.

[Weldangrind]

Thanks for the excellent pics and write-up, Keith. A few minutes with a MIG welder, and I could correct that left side mount for you.

You indicated that you removed the original setup as a whole; do you have pics of that?

[keithmaine]

Thanks for the excellent pics and write-up, Keith. A few minutes with a MIG welder, and I could correct that left side mount for you.

You indicated that you removed the original setup as a whole; do you have pics of that?


I thought of moving the tab as well, but then I would have had to repaint the brackets and I wanted to ride instead. :lol:

I will take some for you and post them here this evening :doh: I should have taken more pics of stock stuff coming off.

[SpudRider]

Thanks for posting the update with the excellent photos, Keith. :)

[Weldangrind]

I thought of moving the tab as well, but then I would have had to repaint the brackets and I wanted to ride instead. :lol:

I will take some for you and post them here this evening :doh: I should have taken more pics of stock stuff coming off.

I'm with you; riding is more fun than painting.

No rush on the pics.

[DanKearney]

OK, seems clear to me based on my experience and Keith's that the problem with the Tourfella mounts is on the factory end. I'm going to send an email to CSC asking that they try to correct this issue with the factory.

Cheers,

Dan K.

[RedHawk47]

Two ideas for an entrepreneur - I may do them myself, but not soon.
1. A plate that mounts to the left Tourfella rack for mounting one or two tool tubes in the open space between the rack and the wheel.
2. A toolbox that mounts in that space - like this one:
http://www.advdesigns.com/rurelotoforb1.html
I have sent this idea to Tourfella via aliexpress.

[keithmaine]

Two ideas for an entrepreneur - I may do them myself, but not soon.
1. A plate that mounts to the left Tourfella rack for mounting one or two tool tubes in the open space between the rack and the wheel.
2. A toolbox that mounts in that space - like this one:
http://www.advdesigns.com/rurelotoforb1.html
I have sent this idea to Tourfella via aliexpress.

The toolbox behind the rack will not work with the Tourfella mounts, well not that close to the frame. The Tourfella clips inside the frame about 1/2" deep. But tool tubes could be done.

[MattyBoy1976]

Bumping this back up...I'm considering ordering the Tourfella luggage, and would like to hear from those of you who have used it for awhile. Other than the issues mentioned in this thread, have any of you had any other problems?
Would you buy this set again, or try something else?

[DanKearney]

Mine have performed as expected. Sturdy and waterproof. I remember now that I had to tighten down the lock mechanisms in all three boxes as they loosened from vibration over time. No danger of them falling out if the latch is closed as the latch prevents them from falling out.

I would purchase them again, even knowing the small mounting issue already discussed.

Cheers,

Dan K.

[Juanca]

Bumping this back up again, I got my RX3 with these panniers, but wondering how easy are they to remove?
I mean, if I will not use them during my daily commute, can I easily remove them and attach them again?

[Working_ZS]

Bumping this back up again, I got my RX3 with these panniers, but wondering how easy are they to remove?
I mean, if I will not use them during my daily commute, can I easily remove them and attach them again?

Yes, with a qualification. On the top box, the knob for the locking lug is down at the bottom of the case, which depending on how much stuff you carry may make it hard to access in order to release the case. Similary for the side cases, if they are really full, you may have trouble getting to the knobs that loosen the lugs in order to release the cases. There is a member here who lives in China and has access to a lot of RX3 accessories, one of which is TourFella case bags that fit inside and allow you to easily lift out your things. This lets you leave them on the bike or in your case, easily remove them without having to remove a bunch of stuff. His user name is NzBrakelathes and there is a thread about them here:

http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=22368

[Juanca]

Thanks a lot Working ZS

[calvarez]

The sides are easy once you get used to doing it. Mine were a bit sticky when I bought the bike at two years old. I sprayed the mount tabs and the rack with Honda polish, which made them slippery and easy. Also note that you should loosen the translucent white plastic nuts, then turn the gray knobs. My pea brain tried to just turn the knobs at first, thinking the nuts just held the mounts to the knobs. They are actually a lock nut.

My top case had broken mounts, and I replaced them with aluminum mounts from NzBrakelathes (forum member, standup guy, great parts source). Those are very tight, but the upside is that the case is more solidly mounted than with the stock plastic ones. It's a mild annoyance to deal with. I haven't yet tried filing a chamfer on them, but it's just not a terrible thing to deal with.

[NzBrakelathes]

Several nice accessories available for these boxes etc, here's some shameless marketing lol.

I am looking into opening an online store to take advantage of the cheap shipping from China - I can't get good prices as a local directly at the post office.

[sqwert]

Any news on your online store? Seems like a wonderful solution to the shipping costs with which you struggle.

[NzBrakelathes]

Any news on your online store? Seems like a wonderful solution to the shipping costs with which you struggle.

My wife as a local can and me as a FOREINER can't. We are going to set up a shop on a website that we must agree and sign a contract for so I can get easy listings credit card payments and escrow and acsess to cheap shipping which we cannot do without it.
Getting their and it will be a way that people can use that portal to buy the smaller things (under 2Kg and ship in around 14-20 some days)

Aliexpress we must be a company and their fee costs USD$1700 a year but I am not at that level now - maybe later etc.
Bigger items with DHL I have a good source for sending and even sending engines seems possible and at a total price to your door competitive compared to the USA importers and I will have more options or higher HP motors (Air cooled) for simular money as in the USA

[NzBrakelathes]

Any news on your online store? Seems like a wonderful solution to the shipping costs with which you struggle.

My wife as a local can and me as a FOREIGNER can't. We are going to set up a shop on a website that we must agree and sign a contract for so I can get easy listings credit card payments and escrow and access to cheap shipping which we cannot do without it.
Getting their and it will be a way that people can use that portal to buy the smaller things (under 2Kg and ship in around 14-20 some days)

Aliexpress we must be a company and their fee costs USD$1700 a year but I am not at that level now - maybe later etc.
Bigger items with DHL I have a good source for sending and even sending engines seems possible and at a total price to your door competitive compared to the USA importers and I will have more options or higher HP motors (Air cooled) for similar money as in the USA

[1cylinderwonder]

NzB,
You must really be side tracked by your worries. Check below this posting and you’ll see your DUPLICATE! :doh:
Good luck with your online store. It’s always a slow start up if you’re low on finances. :hmm:
Take care,
1CW

[NzBrakelathes]

NzB,
You must really be side tracked by your worries. Check below this posting and you’ll see your DUPLICATE! :doh:
Good luck with your online store. It’s always a slow start up if you’re low on finances. :hmm:
Take care,
1CW

Internet is slow n crappy and I think I push GO twice lol!

Actually the hardest part is getting other people to do their job or task right (My wife included) and yeah I was once well off but now not so yet I do not mind and I am as happy with or without it.
My success is having other people with correct stuff and no dramas for them and if I make some or lots of money either is OK, I am not a greedy man

[sqwert]

I've practiced way to much generosity and made myself broke several times. No more.

[NzBrakelathes]

I have a pair of Tourefella bags in stock $35 each/$70 a pair and shipping is $18.50 which is only $1 more then the pair I posted while in the USA

So $88.50 posted from China to the USA and expect them to take 2-4 weeks to arrive. USPS track n trace included

[calvarez]

I'll say that I haven't used the bags a lot, but need to get into the habit. The last time I did grocery shopping on the bike, I took them with me (I kept forgetting to do so until then). I was at a store where you can scan your own items as you pick them. So I scanned things, put them in the bags, and walked out of the store to just drop the two bags in. I knew exactly how much would fit (plus the top case).