RX-3 down....

[superdude]

My buddy who confidently bought an RX-3 right after I bought mine and loved it just called me and said he is stranded on the freeway. :ohno: Was cruising along in 6th gear and bike just died. Electrics are good terminal and connections are good bike has spark but plug is a little wet with fuel (which might be from trying to start it) so I assume that would rule out fuel pump. Only thing I can think of is the CDI box went out. He only has 80 miles on the bike so far and hes gonna have to get it towed to nearest shop which is 30 minutes away..I havent heard or read of anyone else having any similar issues like this hopefully its an easy fix and hopefully CSC will take care of the costs with the shop although sounds like he'll have to foot the towing bill. Any ideas though greatly appreciated otherwise I'll post updates on status and what the results of everything are.

[rojo_grande]

Superdude,
Sounds like Andy on one of the other forums had the same issue.
http://www.rx3forums.com/forums/showthread.php/232-Ignition-problems

[superdude]

Superdude,
Sounds like Andy on one of the other forums had the same issue.
http://www.rx3forums.com/forums/showthread.php/232-Ignition-problems

thanks for the link rojo. only thing with this bike is its brand new doesnt have a spec of dirt on it or have any symptoms prior to this happening. might try the reset thing and see if that fixes it problem with that is then if that does work we'll never know what the issue is/was and be slave to it happening again.

[superdude]

The only thing hes done to it or has messed with is he took the headlight bucket off and obviously the cluster to swap out the headlight bulb for an H4 and did the cut out and water hole as wall and did the cutout for it. Could of loosened an ignition wire up there that faulted and caused the ECU to throw a code and not let it start. Is a hard reset key off and on 5 times and that will clear? Plus how to tell if or what the code is?

[Huck369]

There is a connector under the tank that might have worked loose, Chucks bike it was loose when he got it, took some search.g to determine why it wouldn't start

[MattyBoy1976]

I had an O2 sensor fail at about 1,000 miles. Mine starting running rough, and then died once, but it started right back up. I received the replacement O2 sensor this week, but haven't installed it yet.

I'm not sure how to reset fault codes, but here's how to read them (I learned this on the side of the road while talking to Gerry from CSC):

Start with the key in the off position. Turn the kill switch to the on position, and then turn the key ON, off, ON, off, ON and leave it on. If there's an error code, the engine light will begin to flash a pattern that reveals a four-digit code. The light will flash once for one, twice for two, and so on-however, 10 flashes equals zero. Mine flashed this pattern: 10, 1, 3, 2, which is code 0132, which indicates a faulty oxygen sensor. After it flashes the code, wait and see if it flashes another, or repeats the same one. The flashing sequence is supposed to pause for 4 seconds between 4-digit sequences.

If your friend's bike powers up, have him try this and see what happens.

[SpudRider]

....Plus how to tell if or what the code is?

Turn the ignition switch on/off, on/off, on, in rapid succession. Watch the engine warning light, and it will flash a diagnostic trouble code (DTC). Count the blinks. Here is a description from a Chinese service manual.

After confirming there is a fault, if open and close the key for three times switch three times, namely, open — close—open—close—open the key, the fault light will come to a flash code corresponding to the fault. And then through the fault code table identify the corresponding fault. With fault light reading fault, the rules of the flash code are as follows, for example, if the fault is the intake air pressure sensor is disconnected or the signal-side pin shorts to battery negative, after the key is opened and closed for three times the fault light will first flicker for 10 times on behalf of 0, flicker for 1 times on behalf of 1 after an interval of 1.2 seconds, flicker for 10 times again on behalf of 0 after an interval of 1.2 seconds, and after an interval of 1.2 seconds flicker for 7 times on behalf of 7 , namely, P0107.it is thus clear that other figures from 0 to 9 are expressed by the times of the flicker of the fault light except that figure 0 is expressed by flicker for 10 times. If there are other fault codes, such as fault P0201, which means there is a fault in the front cylinder injector, the fault light will continue to flicker P0201 fault code in 3.2 seconds after finishing P0107; if there is no other fault, the fault light will flicker P0107 and P0201 circularly, and then check the fault code table for related faults.

Here is a chart of the Delphi MT05 ECU fault codes, in both decimal, and hexidecimal form.

http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq146/spudrider/Zongshen%20RX3/MT05%20Error%20Codes_zpsnszhywba.jpg

If you telephone CSC, they will also help you to decipher the trouble codes.

[superdude]

Turn the ignition switch on/off, on/off, on, in rapid succession. Watch the engine warning light, and it will flash a diagnostic trouble code (DTC). Count the blinks. Here is a description from a Chinese service manual.

After confirming there is a fault, if open and close the key for three times switch three times, namely, open — close—open—close—open the key, the fault light will come to a flash code corresponding to the fault. And then through the fault code table identify the corresponding fault. With fault light reading fault, the rules of the flash code are as follows, for example, if the fault is the intake air pressure sensor is disconnected or the signal-side pin shorts to battery negative, after the key is opened and closed for three times the fault light will first flicker for 10 times on behalf of 0, flicker for 1 times on behalf of 1 after an interval of 1.2 seconds, flicker for 10 times again on behalf of 0 after an interval of 1.2 seconds, and after an interval of 1.2 seconds flicker for 7 times on behalf of 7 , namely, P0107.it is thus clear that other figures from 0 to 9 are expressed by the times of the flicker of the fault light except that figure 0 is expressed by flicker for 10 times. If there are other fault codes, such as fault P0201, which means there is a fault in the front cylinder injector, the fault light will continue to flicker P0201 fault code in 3.2 seconds after finishing P0107; if there is no other fault, the fault light will flicker P0107 and P0201 circularly, and then check the fault code table for related faults.

Here is a chart of the Delphi MT05 ECU fault codes, in both decimal, and hexidecimal form.

http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq146/spudrider/Zongshen%20RX3/MT05%20Error%20Codes_zpsnszhywba.jpg

If you telephone CSC, they will also help you to decipher the trouble codes.


This is very helpful Spud. :thanks: Bike is staying overnight at gas station tonight and grabbing it tommorrow. Definitely will do the ignition cycle to see what the fault code is thats coming up and then we'll go from there I guess. He called CSC today right after it happened but Gerry and Ryan and all knowledgeable staff were at the motorcycle show. :/ But this forum usually serves to be just as or more useful anyway. :)

[Jay In Milpitas]

It is also possible that it is just something simple, like a loose connector.

I suggest both of you review the tutorial from CSC.

http://www.cscmotorcycles.com/Articles.asp?ID=261

Good luck with it and please report back.

[rjmorel]

Or if your like me, he hit the kill switch accidentally. rj

[keithmaine]

Or if your like me, he hit the kill switch accidentally. rj

Been there done that ;)

[superdude]

Went to pick it up tonight and went through all the electrical. First thing I did was the fault code check and there was no flashing lights. Everything checked out. Everything was connected and fuses were good. Stumped. Could it be fuel pump or efi if the fuel pump is priming fine? Might be fuel issues. Not sure. He's gonna call Gerry on Monday and prob take it to a shop Tuesday

[SpudRider]

Thanks for posting the update. Good luck. :)

[2LZ]

Unless it's a hard failure of some kind from a new electronic part, I can't help but think it's something simple....like a battery connection or like others say, a connector somewhere that came apart. Also, the old rule of: "Look where the hands were last." comes into play. I'd check out all the headlight area electrical connectors closely. Disconnect and reconnect each connector. He may have bent a prong on a connector he had apart. It happens.
I had a brand new Victory die on me. 60 whole miles. Loose battery connection from the shop. If the EFI doesn't get full voltage, it shuts itself down to save itself. Hopefully it's something simple like this.

[SpudRider]

Superdude,

Do you have an update for us? Was the problem diagnosed, and resolved?

[superdude]

Hey Spud thanks for checking back. Gerry wasnt in the office until this morning hes off mondays. No resolution yet though unfortunately..Gerry offered to send a new fuel system and has been texting with my buddy having him check everything and so far its all the same no change. Lines are all good from fuel tank and plug is wet with fuel after cranking so hard to believe its a fuel issue. Next item he wanted to check was for a bent valve :/ so hes gonna check that tonight along with compression to see if its a motor issue. Can not imagine it would have a bent valve on a brand new bulletproof engine like this but crazier things have happened. Either way CSC is walking along with us (him) and helping figure out. I'll post updates on what happens next.

[SpudRider]

Thanks for checking in. :) We will await further updates. ;)

[superdude]

Further update...not good. After my buddy worked with Gerry and got to the point of checking the valves, it has been determined a new motor is needed. Gerry said it happens with every few hundred bikes where they've had cam chains jump and that change in timing ends up bending an intake valve and/or breaking the rocker arm, which is what happened with my buddies bike. Seems to afflict bikes under 200 miles that are used at higher rpms due to the tight tolerances before breaking in. Apparently the woodruff key on the crankshaft is sometimes to blame. SO lesson learned here is you really do have to break it in and not run it at too high of an rpm first couple hundred miles which is common sense but this proves it. CSC has been awesome as always, and they are picking up the bike day after thanksgiving and bringing it down and swapping out the motor, including putting on a ported/polished head before shipping it back up. So that is awful nice of them. He might see if he can get an accessory or two thrown in as well for the trouble but I gotta say that CSC and their service definitely is impressive and very little if any confidence is lost in this bike from all parties because of that fact. Will continue to post updates for my buddy I think he is trying to register too and can post more updates but either way we'll keep updating all the way till he has his new motor in his RX-3 back in his garage.

[SpudRider]

Thank you letting us know the outcome, and reporting the superb customer service from CSC. :) I have never heard of anyone, anywhere, who offers better customer service than CSC :tup:

[rtking]

Wow - replacement motor AND ported and polished head? That's awesome! CSC really knows how to take care of its customers. Plus, from what I've heard from Gerry, there's nice and noticeable gains from the ported and polished head. Sorry this had to happen, but it sounds like all will be fine in the end and your friend is actually going to be a little bit ahead with the ported and polished head. (no pun intended.)

[Darkrider]

glad to hear your buddy is coming out a head in this one...(ok...that was a bad pun..)

[SpudRider]

In this video the videographers ported and polished the intake and exhaust manifolds, as well as the exhaust header. They also do a valve job on the cylinder head. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FiPlUnvdqs

[DanKearney]

So lesson learned here is you really do have to break it in and not run it at too high of an rpm first couple hundred miles which is common sense but this proves it.

The first thing that popped into my mind when I read your initial post: "Brand new bike, less than 80 miles on the odometer, tooling down the freeway in 6th gear. . ."

Sounds like the break-in procedure was completely ignored. I'm glad your buddy is being supported by CSC so well. I wonder if a mainstream brand dealer would have done the same after hearing the details.

As time goes on and I read about other CSC owners with mechanical issues (Few and far between as they have been) I become more impressed with CSC.

Cheers,

Dan K.

[superdude]

Ha ya the only downside to this whole thing is his bike might be a little more powerful than mine when he gets it back with the ported and polished head. Might lay off the pumpkin pie today so I can work on the power to weight ratio the old fashioned way. :) don't understand why happened to his bike cause I broke in mine the same way. But minimizing any risk at all is prob smart thing to do for future rx3 owners by making sure to not drone along at a high rpm for any amount of time in first couple hundred miles. And happy thanksgiving everybody. Thankful for this awesome forum.

[DaytonaMike]

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!! Missing my Mom´s southern style homecooking and family time today. Hope you all are having a great day.

Just wanted to comment about CSC service. I was in customer service for 18 years and its awesome to hear story after story about CSC stepping up as soon as there is an issue and taking care of their business. We all are well aware of the risk buying a china bike and more than anyone I am sure CSC is aware as well. They have a tremendous amount invested in this venture. Like any product from any country and like any new product hitting the market there are always bound to be issues but its how those companies step up and handle the issues that really shows how well the future of the product will be. So far the Colombian dealer I am working with has been awesome and I hope that continues. Excellent service to quickly handle and repair any issues that arises will only help all of us in the long run. Support from guys like all of you in this forum in growing a community of like minded owners makes that community that much better. So hats off to CSC for the awesome service and hats off to all of you for the technical support and advice that is keeping us all happy and informed.

[SpudRider]

Undoubtedly, the customer service provided by CSC is unprecedented, and unparalleled in the world of Chinese motorcycles. :tup: In addition, I don't think the customer service from CSC can be surpassed by anyone in the motorcycle industry. :)

[Darkrider]

Its hearing stories like this that have me liking the idea of getting a bike from CSC more and more...Though granted it may end up being a TT Special instead of an RX3 but so be it..

[superdude]

Just wanted to update everyone: CSC picked up my buddies bike couple days ago and should have it sometime soon to get motor swapped, in addition to the port and polish. Guy/company who picked it up says this is the 4th RX3 he's picked up overall (as a company nationwide) so a couple we've already heard about and obviously sounds like theres been a couple more, although I dont know if any other ones were blown motors. I'll post more updates as they come.

[2LZ]

Glad to hear he's being taken care of. CSC's awesome service is not something CB'ers are used to!
You'd think that there would have been a whale of a noise between the knees when that cam chain jumped ship.

[superdude]

CSC began work on the ported head and new engine swap today. Gerry and all
of CSC has been awesome as promised and this is the message from Gerry to my buddy with pics of whats being put on:

http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r670/clkcrawford/IMG_1064_zpsnhxqu5lu.png


I imagine it'll get finished up today and ship out tomorrow probably getting back up here sometime early next week. I imagine my buddy will probably break his new motor in a little differently this time around, and I just consider myself lucky I didnt have any break in issues either because I rode it just like he did in beginning. Total cost for CSC to do a port and polish for anyone who brings their RX-3 in is $800. So its good to know they do it and that is the cost for someone not wanting to do it themselves, and also great of them to offer that as compensation for the troubles.

[SpudRider]

Thanks for posting the update. :)

[rtking]

Thanks for sharing, Superdude! That is a handsome polish job on the intake! Can't wait to hear how the bike responds to the ported and polished head.

[Weldangrind]

Will the exhaust side be polished as well?

[superdude]

Will the exhaust side be polished as well?

Not sure. Is that standard for both intake and exhaust sides to be polished? Its already put back together Gerry took it out for a test ride with the new motor and p/p job and said its real nice. Now on its way back up here via expedited/direct car shipper should be here in a couple days, which makes exactly 3 weeks from the time it crapped out until its back in my buddys garage. Not too shabby considering spent a few days just to diagnose and then shipping back and forth. I've seen a little bit on the blog about someone who ported and polished their 250 in one of the replica mustang bikes. Does anyone have anyone have a rough idea on what the HP increase is on a thumper thats ported and polished? 3-5 horsepower? I know for cars you can see gains of 5% but I have no clue if that applies to a single cylinder motorcycle as well.

[detours]

A 5% gain on 25 HP isn't a lot. On the other hand, every bit counts and if it adds even a little more torque, you'll feel it. But I would expect demonstrable gains in throttle response, and that would be nice.

What do they charge for the port and polish?

[SpudRider]

Perhaps my memory fails me, but I think the price for a port and polish is $800. :shrug: I think we will get a better performance increase from an EJK fuel controller, which only costs $250. ;) If you guys are interested in the EJK controller, please send an email to sales@dobekperformance.com. :)

http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=15565

[superdude]

Heres Gerrys response regarding break in procedure..might be worth adding to the maintenance and mod sticky under "break in" since doesnt get any better than from the horses mouth and pertains solely to the RX-3:

"
Shipped out your bike today
As far as break in
You should not rev the engine beyond 7 k rpm for the first 500 miles
What I mean is that no sustained rpm above 7 k
A good break in has varied rpm and throttle angles/loads. Avoid sustained rpms and over heating

I already did a oil change on the new motor after I put 50 miles on it
So don’t replace engine oil until 600 miles ( use synthetic oil 10/40w)
Also at that time you need to check / adjust valve lash .003” both in and out valves

When engines suffer damage like yours did its always due to over rev / heating during the break in period. Its easy to do because its only a 250cc. so becareful to allow for break in.

Some other advise-
When starting : turn key on and push start button ( nothing else ) allow to warm up atleast 1 bar.
Do not blip throttle during deceleration. Doing so can cause additional back fire since the computer thinks you want more fuel
Install lucas top end cyl lubricant / fuel conditioner in the fuel tank at least for the first 600 miles. I use it all the time since our fuels are lacking in lubricant. It helps keep things working properly and the engine loves it.

Don’t forget you need to check nuts and bolts for tightness at all service intervals

Also, to take full advantage of the head work you should consider power commander or similar piggy back fuel manager. A performance muffler / slip on as well. I prefer supertrapp slip on.

Enjoy the bike

Thank you

CSC service manager
Gerry Edwards"

[superdude]

Perhaps my memory fails me, but I think the price for a port and polish is $800. :shrug: I think we will get a better performance increase from an EJK fuel controller, which only costs $250. ;) If you guys are interested in the EJK controller, please send an email to sales@dobekperformance.com. :)

http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=15565

FYI Spud I tried the email address for dobek you provided and sent them an email right after you posted that and both times it got sent back to me as invalid email address. :shrug:

[SpudRider]

FYI Spud I tried the email address for dobek you provided and sent them an email right after you posted that and both times it got sent back to me as invalid email address. :shrug:

Thanks for letting me know about the bad email address. I will call Dobeck Performance, and get a good email address from them. :)

[Weldangrind]

Is that standard for both intake and exhaust sides to be polished?

Not necessarily. That said, a mirror polish is only a benefit on the exhaust side, whereas the intake side needs a little texture to promote atomization. The polishing on an intake can be like a mirror, if the injector is downstream of the intake (i.e. a dry-flow system).

It's important to not remove too much material when porting on the intake side. Knife edge the plenum wall, remove rough casting, blend any short radius, lightly polish and call it a win.

[Weldangrind]

Do not blip throttle during deceleration. Doing so can cause additional back fire since the computer thinks you want more fuel.

Two things come to mind here.

1. I always blip the throttle on deceleration, to remove excess load as I downshift.
2. Backfire is the result of a lean mixture, not excess fuel. Perhaps blipping the throttle adds more air very quickly, before the injector can respond.

I don't actually have any formal training. I'm just a goofball who reads too much.

[superdude]

Update: Bike arrived on friday back to my buddies house. they swapped out the sprockets for him as well to the 13t, and he has the brand spankin new motor with the port and polish on it. After he got it, he rode it to work and wanted to really break it in so he rode at 84 mph for 50 miles WOT and so far no issue. ha just kidding. :hehe: he did ride it to work though which should be perfect break in rides commuting downtown seattle lots of variation. CSC also took care of a paint chip he had on his tank. He said the motor feels almost exactly like the one he sent back, which is a good thing since old one was semi broken in and this new one with p/p is not. I'll post more updates on the upgraded head especially when we ride our bikes together and both are broken in and can compare apples to apples. We're also taking our rx3's to a dyno and EFI tuner sometime next couple months the owner said he really wants to have an rx3 to test in his shop so that'll be fun to see what he can squeeze out of them and what the numbers are on my buddies bike.

All in all pretty tough to beat CSC's service especially Gerry for taking care of everything they said they would do. Essentially its not 100% their fault yet they went above and beyond, and that is a great way to do business and very comforting for all other RX-3/CSC bike owners.

[SpudRider]

Thanks for posting the update. :) CSC provides unparalleled customer service. :tup:

[DanKearney]

Your buddy was told by CSC:

"As far as break in You should not rev the engine beyond 7 k rpm for the first 500 miles
What I mean is that no sustained rpm above 7 k"

and then he:

"After he got it, he rode it to work and wanted to really break it in so he rode at 84 mph for 50 miles WOT and so far no issue."

Wow. I think he's asking for more trouble.

Cheers,

Dan K.

[Danimal]

Your buddy was told by CSC:

"As far as break in You should not rev the engine beyond 7 k rpm for the first 500 miles
What I mean is that no sustained rpm above 7 k"

and then he:

"After he got it, he rode it to work and wanted to really break it in so he rode at 84 mph for 50 miles WOT and so far no issue."

Wow. I think he's asking for more trouble.

Cheers,

Dan K.
He followed that statement with j/k

[Weldangrind]

He followed that statement with j/k

He had me going until I read that part. :D

[kohburn]

"After he got it, he rode it to work and wanted to really break it in so he rode at 84 mph for 50 miles WOT and so far no issue."

the opposite of both the recommended break in and the motorman break in. extended constant high rpm

I do wonder about the break in. generally the long gentle break in is a bean counter issue. after rebuilding motors I always did a basic motoman type of break in and then drove it like normal after that.

[SpudRider]

He had me going until I read that part. :D

X2. ;) Adding an emoticon can certainly help convey the humor, and prevent misunderstanding.

:hehe:

[superdude]

X2. ;) Adding an emoticon can certainly help convey the humor, and prevent misunderstanding.

:hehe:

I went advanced and added an emoticon to it. :) ha and believe you me if I thought someone was serious and was riding like that at break in I'd be all over them too.

[DanKearney]

Lack of attention to detail. Causes embarrassment everytime!

Doh!

My bad. My brain totally missed the joke.

Cheers,

Dan K.

[SpudRider]

Lack of attention to detail. Causes embarrassment everytime!

Doh!

My bad. My brain totally missed the joke.

Cheers,

Dan K.

Don't feel bad; he had me hooked until I saw the jk. ;)

:lmao: