Question about carbs and jets

[BARLOW]

ok, here is my question, and it is for everyone that has re-jetted the stock Keihin clone carb on a 229cc (storm 250).

did it help with the top end speed, and if so was it a lot?
today i could not get past 60mph on the speedometer (about 55mph real speed) and it seemed to be from lack of fuel. if i opened the carb any more after 60mph, it slowed down, then i back off a bit, and back up to 60. or is it just the top speed i can get on the 17t/45t sprocket setup? ... it is a sweet bike around town, but like it is now, not much chance it would even see the next town over, at only about 9 miles away

[Sport Rider]

ok, here is my question, and it is for everyone that has re-jetted the stock Keihin clone carb on a 229cc (storm 250).

did it help with the top end speed, and if so was it a lot?
today i could not get past 60mph on the speedometer (about 55mph real speed) and it seemed to be from lack of fuel. if i opened the carb any more after 60mph, it slowed down, then i back off a bit, and back up to 60. or is it just the top speed i can get on the 17t/45t sprocket setup? ... it is a sweet bike around town, but like it is now, not much chance it would even see the next town over, at only about 9 miles away

my hawk was doing the same thing. are you still running the stock pilot and main? I believe that issue is from running too lean. I went to a 30 pilot and a 115 main. I turned the pilot screw 1.5 turns out. really makes a world of difference. with that setup, I was getting up to 55 mph. keep in mind that I was running the stock hawk sprockets which are taller than yours. Currently I have a 17/50 setup and I'm getting between 55 and 60 depending on wind conditions (on flat stretch of road).

I went to a 117.5 main jet and it felt like it was just a little better on the top end, but it was only perhaps 1 or 2 mph. mostly it was just seat of the pants that it felt a bit better.

[BARLOW]

my hawk was doing the same thing. are you still running the stock pilot and main? I believe that issue is from running too lean. I went to a 30 pilot and a 115 main. I turned the pilot screw 1.5 turns out. really makes a world of difference. with that setup, I was getting up to 55 mph. keep in mind that I was running the stock hawk sprockets which are taller than yours. Currently I have a 17/50 setup and I'm getting between 55 and 60 depending on wind conditions (on flat stretch of road).

I went to a 117.5 main jet and it felt like it was just a little better on the top end, but it was only perhaps 1 or 2 mph. mostly it was just seat of the pants that it felt a bit better.

yes, it is bone stock, and i have no clue what jets are in it ... it sounds like if you are getting a top speed of 55-60, i may just be at the top of the speed range, and that saddens me, and makes me wish i would have gotten a used bike because now i will not even get close to what i paid for it ... oh well, guess i need to go pick up my 1980 gs850g and get started on it

[Sport Rider]

yes, it is bone stock, and i have no clue what jets are in it ... it sounds like if you are getting a top speed of 55-60, i may just be at the top of the speed range, and that saddens me, and makes me wish i would have gotten a used bike because now i will not even get close to what i paid for it ... oh well, guess i need to go pick up my 1980 gs850g and get started on it

you should be able to get 60 out of it, but I do hear what you are saying. I was hoping my hawk would run 60 comfortably in order to do some on/off day rides. what I've resigned myself to is it's a darn fine bike for trails, back roads or anything where 45 to 55 is max. Above that, I'll probably go to a KLR650 or something comparable. I did see a suzuki DR-Z 400 which would have enough motor for 60 mph. it might be better as it's a bit lighter. However, part of my goal is to do trail riding with my grandson who will soon be on a 110, so I will certainly keep the hawk for that.

[BARLOW]

well, i expected to be able to cruse at 55-60, seeing as how the place i bought my bike from said top speed of 80mph, but they were supper far off on that, unless they ment in the back of a truck ... lol

[Sport Rider]

well, i expected to be able to cruse at 55-60, seeing as how the place i bought my bike from said top speed of 80mph, but they were supper far off on that, unless they ment in the back of a truck ... lol

See....there's your problem....80 KPH

:cry::doh:>:(

Oh wait....reverse the sprockets....45 front and 17 rear should be about right. :D

[BlackBike]

well, i expected to be able to cruse at 55-60, seeing as how the place i bought my bike from said top speed of 80mph, but they were supper far off on that, unless they ment in the back of a truck ... lol

Hey Barlow before you throw our bikes in the garbage here's a picture of the black cowl painted in black

PS my bone stock gets 61 miles an hour on the Garmin GPS before it hits the ceiling . It seems to be breaking in and cruising a little faster every time I try I will give you another reading report one of these days I have about 300 miles on mine. 230 pound rider on the straight and flat
4858

4859

4860

[2LZ]

yes, it is bone stock, and i have no clue what jets are in it ... it sounds like if you are getting a top speed of 55-60, i may just be at the top of the speed range, and that saddens me, and makes me wish i would have gotten a used bike because now i will not even get close to what i paid for it ... oh well, guess i need to go pick up my 1980 gs850g and get started on it

All of these Hondoids are set up very lean and very trail geared. You probably have a 100 main and 20 pilot, like most. This is barlely enough to keep them running but they pass emmisions and must be sold as such. Most have catalytic converters and an air pump. The air pump won't hamper your performance, as all it does is throw fresh air on your hot cat to burn HC's and CO's when your throttle hand is into it.

These bikes are all about gearing and jetting. Do what everyone else does. Bash your cat out, block off the pump, spend the 30.00 on a Mikuni and a pod filter. Put a 115 main and a 30 pilot in it and grow a tooth on the countershaft sprocket and you'll be amazed.
Believe me, here in CA, if your bike was legal, I'd make you an offer............ I'd love to have a Storm on my twisties.

[BARLOW]

well, my bone stock storm will not get over about 55mph (60 by speedometer) then it slows down ... i just do not understand how it can pull so well to that point, then just fall on its face ... i want to locate another head, and take a little off of it to up the compression ... i wonder if there is a big bore kit or a stroker kit for the counter balanced 229cc motor ... i just need it to cruse at 55-60 so i can use it on the highway and a smaller rear sprocket is not going to help, or at least i dont think it will

[SeerAtlas]

ok, now i think the tt250 has the same motor as your storm. Joe said with his side of beef on it and the change in gearing CSC has done {and probably adding in the larger 21/18 combo) Joe says he has personally done i think he said 74mph. and thats on a carb certified bike.

soooo, the speed is in there somewhere,
now i am around 250, at elevation around 800 to 1k feet, and tho my hawk is not yet broken in, sustained 55mph right now is NO Problem w the 16/45 setup i settled on. got LOads of throttle left too. oh and thats 55 real mph, not as indicated. The hawk motor is Not a balanced one.

The other thing is for you high rev guys, someone pointed out that he thought there is a builtin rev limiter in the stock cdi. The csc mechanic would know if theirs one on the balancer motor placed there by zong.

[2LZ]

well, my bone stock storm will not get over about 55mph (60 by speedometer) then it slows down ... i just do not understand how it can pull so well to that point, then just fall on its face ... i want to locate another head, and take a little off of it to up the compression ... i wonder if there is a big bore kit or a stroker kit for the counter balanced 229cc motor ... i just need it to cruse at 55-60 so i can use it on the highway and a smaller rear sprocket is not going to help, or at least i dont think it will

No need for head work or a Big Bore kit...nor will you probably find any for this CG motor. Just do the normal mods and with your stock gearing on the Storm, you should be fine. You should hit an easy 65 or so, depending on your weight. Again, maybe jump a tooth on the countershaft. All this stuff is cheap to do.

Also, have you adjusted the valves (ice cold engine) and changed the stock oil out? No need for sadness. Just do what everyone else here does that's well-documented and you'll be happy. That 229cc CG motor is a good one and can perform very well, for a very long time, under the right circumstances, for very little money. Also, there is a break-in period you're supposed ot adhere to.... It's painful and somewhat long but you're not suupposed to go over 5000 rpm for the first 500 miles....general rule. There's hot spots that need to mate like cam and pushrods, etc...

[nonone]

well, my bone stock storm will not get over about 55mph (60 by speedometer) then it slows down ... i just do not understand how it can pull so well to that point, then just fall on its face ... i want to locate another head, and take a little off of it to up the compression ... i wonder if there is a big bore kit or a stroker kit for the counter balanced 229cc motor ... i just need it to cruse at 55-60 so i can use it on the highway and a smaller rear sprocket is not going to help, or at least i dont think it will

Here's to bad ideas.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Big-bore-kit-change-250CC-ATV-parts-Quad-parts-to-300CC/746771916.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/70MM-16MM-82MM-Cylinder-kit-Loncin-ZongShen-250CC-170MM-Engine-Kaya-Xmotos-Apollo-Tmax-Pit-Dirt/752847946.html

I'm guessing it's what they used to for these
http://www.roketa.com/product/product_support.jsp?cateID=2628&sonCateID=0&proID=2656\ (http://www.roketa.com/product/product_support.jsp?cateID=2628&sonCateID=0&proID=2656)
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/XRE-300-MOTORCYCLE-FOR-HONDA2014-hot_1560316415.html
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/2015-New-300CC-water-cooled-dirt_60317546443.html

[BARLOW]

2lz, yes i have done the valves, and it did make a slight difference on my takeoff ... it just pulls so good up to speed that it seems like it should do a lot better at top end ... it may just be that i am not getting up in the rpms the way i think i am in the lower gears, i think i will get the carb and jets ordered next week sense i will have a little more ot on my check, and maybe my new tach will be in by then ... going to rain every day for the next week or so anyway

[2LZ]

2lz, yes i have done the valves, and it did make a slight difference on my takeoff ... it just pulls so good up to speed that it seems like it should do a lot better at top end ... it may just be that i am not getting up in the rpms the way i think i am in the lower gears, i think i will get the carb and jets ordered next week sense i will have a little more ot on my check, and maybe my new tach will be in by then ... going to rain every day for the next week or so anyway

That's great news Barlow! The carb and jetting will make a noticable difference. There are many 200 pound guys like me who scoot right along on these same CG engines that you have in your Storm. You're not getting the top speed and are running out of power on the top end due to the factory lean mixture that comes with these. Bottom line is the engine runs out of food when it's most hungry. It's normal the way they come set up. They are not "right" out of crate for how we want them to perform because of EPA standards....but with just a little help, they can run great...and don't forget, you have a lot of folks here who are here to help, who have been down this same path regularly.
Going to be raining here for the foreseeable future also. Time to go and tinker in the garage!

[BARLOW]

ok, if i get this carb, does anyone know for sure what type of jets i will need to get for it
http://www.ebay.com/itm/301820210819?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
i have to try something ... i really like this bike, if i could just get it to cruse at 55 or so that way i can take it out on the road past town

edit: i will be ordering this stuff next week on wednesday, so any help before then would be supper ... thank you

[BlackBike]

You're taking the lead on this carb bashan project afaik. Most posts seem to be for hawks. Good luck, I will be taking notes:tup: I'm sure it's somewhere on this site :shrug:

[Sport Rider]

ok, if i get this carb, does anyone know for sure what type of jets i will need to get for it
http://www.ebay.com/itm/301820210819?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
i have to try something ... i really like this bike, if i could just get it to cruse at 55 or so that way i can take it out on the road past town

edit: i will be ordering this stuff next week on wednesday, so any help before then would be supper ... thank you

look up my thread on the hawk tuning. This carb is the same as the one I got. I posted ebay links to pilot and main jets that will fit the carb you found. The jetting WILL make a difference for you. Hopefully enough for you to get comfortable with it.

[BARLOW]

look up my thread on the hawk tuning. This carb is the same as the one I got. I posted ebay links to pilot and main jets that will fit the carb you found. The jetting WILL make a difference for you. Hopefully enough for you to get comfortable with it.
i looked in your post, i did not see any link in it for your jets

[nonone]

i looked in your post, i did not see any link in it for your jets
Here is a good place to start for a VM-26
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161772202331
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151755556738

These may be useful as well
http://www.pjmotorsports.com/vm-spigotmount-exp-view.html
https://www.jetsrus.com/carburetor/carb_mikuni_VM_spigot_mount_carb_exploded_view_par ts.html

Also very useful
http://www.4strokes.com/technical/carb-jetting/

[Sport Rider]

i looked in your post, i did not see any link in it for your jets

if you are in more of a hurry, I expect most motorcycle shops would have these jets in stock. just tell them it's for a mikuni VM26.

[BARLOW]

Here is a good place to start for a VM-26
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161772202331
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151755556738

These may be useful as well
http://www.pjmotorsports.com/vm-spigotmount-exp-view.html
https://www.jetsrus.com/carburetor/carb_mikuni_VM_spigot_mount_carb_exploded_view_par ts.html

Also very useful
http://www.4strokes.com/technical/carb-jetting/

this does help, i was not sure if i needed large, small, round or hex ... thank you

[BARLOW]

if you are in more of a hurry, I expect most motorcycle shops would have these jets in stock. just tell them it's for a mikuni VM26.
not in a big hurry, just need to know what ones to get, so i can order everything at the same time ... thanks for helping me out

[nonone]

this does help, i was not sure if i needed large, small, round or hex ... thank you
If you ever get parts over the counter make sure they are not for a VM-26-808 as they use different jets an a few other parts.

[BARLOW]

ok, i guess it is time for me to eat some crow with a red face ... today i took the bike out again, and it felt like wot in fifth gear was holding speed, even though i can see that the speedometer is dropping. however i watched the speedometer in other gears as well today at wot, and in every gear as the motor starts to vibrate near the top of the gear, the speedometer drops way off, then pulls back up way faster than i am accelerating until it catches back up ... i know the bike has more to give, and i am still getting the carb and jets ... my new question (ill try here before i start a new thread) is what would cause this to happen? the cable seems to be seated at the wheel just fine and i have not taken the cluster off yet, but i am guessing it is an old style steel wheel/magnet type speedometer ... any help would be put to good use, thank you

[Adjuster]

Lube your speedo cable and lube the drive gear at the wheel. Your speedo cable should slide out of the sheathing. Pull it out and as you run it back in drag it through some grease on your hand.

I love this stuff but any type of lube will work.


http://www.harborfreight.com/85-gram-super-lube-grease-cartridge-93744.html


http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-21030-Synthetic-Grease/dp/B000XBH9HI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1457904804&sr=8-1&keywords=super+lube


Interesting I also just learned this is a dielectric grease.


/

[Adjuster]

By the way a good test for the cable is to get your front wheel off the ground and hold the cable while you spin the wheel. You will easily be able to feel any binding or other issues with the speedo system.


/

[BARLOW]

Lube your speedo cable and lube the drive gear at the wheel. Your speedo cable should slide out of the sheathing. Pull it out and as you run it back in drag it through some grease on your hand.

I love this stuff but any type of lube will work.


http://www.harborfreight.com/85-gram-super-lube-grease-cartridge-93744.html


http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-21030-Synthetic-Grease/dp/B000XBH9HI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1457904804&sr=8-1&keywords=super+lube
/
if it were a cable bind or lack of lube, how would that make it only do it at the top of each gear, and not at a set speed or at every speed, and unless the top of the cable is small, it will not come out, but i will go try and check that out ... thank you

[Adjuster]

If the cable has any kind of 'catch' or 'grindyness' to it it will make the speedo erratic and constantly compensating and trying to catch up. Also place your hand on the speedo box as you spin the wheel to see if you feel any clicking or catching inside the box. You will be amazed how much better the speedo works with a lubed cable.


/

[BARLOW]

If the cable has any kind of 'catch' or 'grindyness' to it it will make the speedo erratic and constantly compensating and trying to catch up. Also place your hand on the speedo box as you spin the wheel to see if you feel any clicking or catching inside the box. You will be amazed how much better the speedo works with a lubed cable./
well, it felt free spinning the cable by hand, but i put some grease on the cable anyway

[BARLOW]

well, today i took my drill out to the bike, and hooked it up to the speedo cable, went all the way to the top end with no trouble, so i still have no clue where the trouble is ... too much rain to go test it on the road, but maybe tomorrow i will have a chance, and report back

[BARLOW]

got a nice day for a ride, and no change ... as the engine starts to vibrate, the speedometer starts to drop ... if i pull in the clutch, it goes back up ... any clue what could cause this or how to fix the problem?

[BARLOW]

well, i am feeling more stupid by the day ... the gps on the phone (and it is dead on with the speedo in my car that i know is correct from radar in construction zones) shows a max speed of 71mph with a strong tail wind and a slight down hill ... i hope it will get even better with a new carb and jets ... maybe 75 flat ground, no wind ... then 55 should be no trouble for it on a long haul ... then if my tach ever gets here, i can see where i am in the rpm range, and if high enough, i will get a 40t rear and pick up a 13t or 15t front and keep with the bike for when i need to get off road

[2LZ]

So you were going faster than you thought? Sitting up higher on these dual sports than in a car or a lowered street bike does mask speed.

[BARLOW]

Here is a good place to start for a VM-26
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161772202331
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151755556738

These may be useful as well
http://www.pjmotorsports.com/vm-spigotmount-exp-view.html
https://www.jetsrus.com/carburetor/carb_mikuni_VM_spigot_mount_carb_exploded_view_par ts.html

Also very useful
http://www.4strokes.com/technical/carb-jetting/

just encase anyone else is reading this and not looking to waste money on jets ... neither of the jets listed here are the right ones for the vm26 ... i will post the correct ones at the bottom of the thread, along with the carb

[BARLOW]

i got my carb today, opened it up to check the jet size and found out the ones listed above were the wrong ones ... i measured the jets in the carb with my caliper and this is what i found to be the correct ones for the vm26 30mm mikuni

the carb ... http://www.ebay.com/itm/301820210819?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

the main jet ... http://www.ebay.com/itm/161059326262?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

the pilot jet ... http://www.ebay.com/itm/390524413318?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[BARLOW]

well, got the pilot jet today and it is in, one more and i can swap carbs ... also got my phone mount, so i can use the gps speedo and still waiting on the tach ... wish i would have gotten one from us seller

[nonone]

just encase anyone else is reading this and not looking to waste money on jets ... neither of the jets listed here are the right ones for the vm26 ... i will post the correct ones at the bottom of the thread, along with the carb
Sorry, about that I'm always getting the jets mixed up from vm26's and vm26-606's. I guess the last time I ordered jet's was for a 606 not a 8074 or what ever it's called the one with out the choke knob. I've gone to the store and done the same thing I guess I should write it down or take a picture of something. I don't know why there not better referenced. It should be like vm26a and vm26b or something.

[BARLOW]

So you were going faster than you thought? Sitting up higher on these dual sports than in a car or a lowered street bike does mask speed.
it does have more speed than i thought, but it still will not get much over 55 top speed unless there is no wind and it is on a down slope ... about 50 is the best it will cruise at in real world conditions ... i just need that extra 5 mph for the highway ... the tach will help me see where i need to go from here ... i think i will try messing with the pipe a little as well, as quiet as it is, it must be quite restrictive, but if that rowboat from china ever gets here with my tach, ill know more of what i need to do

[2LZ]

it does have more speed than i thought, but it still will not get much over 55 top speed unless there is no wind and it is on a down slope ... about 50 is the best it will cruise at in real world conditions ... i just need that extra 5 mph for the highway ... the tach will help me see where i need to go from here ... i think i will try messing with the pipe a little as well, as quiet as it is, it must be quite restrictive, but if that rowboat from china ever gets here with my tach, ill know more of what i need to do

Once you get it jetted correctly and tap all of its potential, then it will have more umph to play with taller gearing. I had to do that with all my CB's, including Q. It can hit a good 70 now and I can cruise at 60, no problems. These things so come geared for climbing trees.

[BARLOW]

Once you get it jetted correctly and tap all of its potential, then it will have more umph to play with taller gearing. I had to do that with all my CB's, including Q. It can hit a good 70 now and I can cruise at 60, no problems. These things so come geared for climbing trees.

what gears are you using ... factory mine came with 17/45 ... may go with a 40 or 43 if the tach says i am up in the right range ... also what size jets, i now have 40/115 but have not pulled the plug to see how it looks, maybe i will lift the needle one notch in a day or two to see if i need more jet

[mq1991]

what gears are you using ... factory mine came with 17/45 ... may go with a 40 or 43 if the tach says i am up in the right range ... also what size jets, i now have 40/115 but have not pulled the plug to see how it looks, maybe i will lift the needle one notch in a day or two to see if i need more jet

(Im on a hawk btw, with 17/50 gears) Im also in illinois, and right now im jetted 120 on the main. It still feels like its missing at the very top looking for more fuel. Im gonna try a 125 tonight and let you know how it goes. It has been kinda cool out though, so things may improve once it heats up a bit.

My bike on gps tops out around 61 mph on a flat road. Hopefully i can bring that up a little bit.

[2LZ]

what gears are you using ... factory mine came with 17/45 ... may go with a 40 or 43 if the tach says i am up in the right range ... also what size jets, i now have 40/115 but have not pulled the plug to see how it looks, maybe i will lift the needle one notch in a day or two to see if i need more jet

I don't have a Hawk or Storm but gearing is gearing. It's been years so let me check Q tonight and I'll let you know. The OHC Suzuki-type motor in Q is hungrier than the pushrod CG Hondoid and uses bigger jets and also, revs higher, more comfortably. This may make a difference on top speed.

Your Storm may push a 40 rear sprocket after you jet it. Plus, if you're running the stock exhaust with cat in it, that's going to hamper things. At least take the stock muffler off and bang that cat out of there to free it up some.....or get an FMF Turbine Core 2 Universal Spark Arrestor muffler. Kinda loud but inexpensive. I run them on everything.

[mq1991]

I don't have a Hawk or Storm but gearing is gearing. It's been years so let me check Q tonight and I'll let you know. The OHC Suzuki-type motor in Q is hungrier than the pushrod CG Hondoid and uses bigger jets and also, revs higher, more comfortably. This may make a difference on top speed.

Your Storm may push a 40 rear sprocket after you jet it. Plus, if you're running the stock exhaust with cat in it, that's going to hamper things. At least take the stock muffler off and bang that cat out of there to free it up some.....or get an FMF Turbine Core 2 Universal Spark Arrestor muffler. Kinda loud but inexpensive. I run them on everything.

Ive seen a few people mention removing the cat, how exactly do you do it?

Thanks!

[2LZ]

Ive seen a few people mention removing the cat, how exactly do you do it?

Thanks!

It's not a happy job. Pull the muffler and flip it over so you're looking in the small (header pipe) end. If you see a honey comb type of blockage, that's the cat. Take a long chisel and a big hammer and start beating the tar out of it. It will eventually succumb to many pieces.

[Entropy]

I don't have a Hawk or Storm but gearing is gearing. It's been years so let me check Q tonight and I'll let you know. The OHC Suzuki-type motor in Q is hungrier than the pushrod CG Hondoid and uses bigger jets and also, revs higher, more comfortably. This may make a difference on top speed.

Your Storm may push a 40 rear sprocket after you jet it. Plus, if you're running the stock exhaust with cat in it, that's going to hamper things. At least take the stock muffler off and bang that cat out of there to free it up some.....or get an FMF Turbine Core 2 Universal Spark Arrestor muffler. Kinda loud but inexpensive. I run them on everything.

How much does the FMF free up the air flow vs banging the cat out? What does the FMF look like inside?

[BARLOW]

I don't have a Hawk or Storm but gearing is gearing. It's been years so let me check Q tonight and I'll let you know. The OHC Suzuki-type motor in Q is hungrier than the pushrod CG Hondoid and uses bigger jets and also, revs higher, more comfortably. This may make a difference on top speed.

Your Storm may push a 40 rear sprocket after you jet it. Plus, if you're running the stock exhaust with cat in it, that's going to hamper things. At least take the stock muffler off and bang that cat out of there to free it up some.....or get an FMF Turbine Core 2 Universal Spark Arrestor muffler. Kinda loud but inexpensive. I run them on everything.

i was looking at the t.core 2, but i wasnt seeing how it would mount parallel to the rear of the frame like the factory one does (where the side plastic is made for it) without the need to bend some pipe, and i do not have a bender ... the pipe side of the factory muffler turns down so it is an odd angle

[Entropy]

Has anyone installed the FMF on a Hawk yet?

[2LZ]

The TC2 comes with a nice stainless pipe with a bend in it that can be twisted around to match most header pipes (proper diameter) if it's even remotely pointing in the right direction. I had to bend some pipe on my X-Moto but that was the exception.

Found the old thread of the install on the X-moto. Now THIS was one messed up pipe! I can't imagine any of your guys pipes is even close to this mangled from the factory.... It was a mess, inside and out.

http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6954

Do you guys have a pic of your header pipes where they meet the muffler?

[BlackBike]

Hell, that' my 2015, yet you say the cat was in the muffler. It's in the head now as you know.

Thanks for the memories of 2010. Great team effort.

Barlow, you need some smooth wall stainless steel for a quick trick flow.

[BlackBike]

2LZ...

Barlow really seems to be the motivated cat on this little pump. Can you or have you heard of head port polishing with the valves. Would it be enough of a significant difference in power flow. It is such a short space in the head I wonder if it would be of any benifent, wouldn't hurt.

Seem like I saw something like this on that cafe racer show with the limey bikes on tv.

[BARLOW]

2LZ...

Barlow really seems to be the motivated cat on this little pump. Can you or have you heard of head port polishing with the valves. Would it be enough of a significant difference in power flow. It is such a short space in the head I wonder if it would be of any benifent, wouldn't hurt.

Seem like I saw something like this on that cafe racer show with the limey bikes on tv.
i am not thinking that polishing is going to be the big ticket here, unless i can come up with a way to fab up or at least clean up the currant intake ... i may have found a guy that will cut open my cat and factory muffler and weld it back up for me, not sure if i want the baffle fully removed or leave about 10" of the pipe in the end yet, as i am not sure how it works yet ... as far down as i can see inside the muffler it is just a small smooth pipe inside a big pipe, so whatever it is doing, it is doing down at the bend and i cant see down there ... i think i am going to get some new stones for my dremel and port match the head at the very least ... i really need to locate a cheap used head i can play around with and still ride my bike ... i also heard rumor that there was a better cam out there that will fit, but i have had no luck locating one yet ... i would love to build this 230 up to where i can run 60 or so at like 3/4 throttle ... i know it can be done, if i could just find the right parts and someone willing to mill a head down a few hundred microns, or if i knew of a piston that the wrist pin set down a few hundred microns ... just not sure it will make much more power with only 8.7:1 compression ... hell, i was getting as much horsepower out of a 5hp brigs on stock parts as this is making stock, with just a twist of the cam and a little off the head, of course it was running alcohol

[2LZ]

2LZ...

Barlow really seems to be the motivated cat on this little pump. Can you or have you heard of head port polishing with the valves. Would it be enough of a significant difference in power flow. It is such a short space in the head I wonder if it would be of any benifent, wouldn't hurt.

Seem like I saw something like this on that cafe racer show with the limey bikes on tv.

I've ported and polished a ton of bikes over the years, both 2 and 4 stroke. On the 4 strokes, I only bothered to do it if I was totally building the motor maxed out. Intakes, cams, carb, exhaust, ignition, etc.... It would make virtually no difference on these. These little motors are set up for torque and longevity. You can open the holes all you want, it will only feed so much.

[BlackBike]

I figured as much. Still, it's fun to watch.:D

[BARLOW]

I've ported and polished a ton of bikes over the years, both 2 and 4 stroke. On the 4 strokes, I only bothered to do it if I was totally building the motor maxed out. Intakes, cams, carb, exhaust, ignition, etc.... It would make virtually no difference on these. These little motors are set up for torque and longevity. You can open the holes all you want, it will only feed so much.
so you think these are pulling at the max right now? is there any way to be sure? what about a degree or two on the timing? i just need to find a way to get 3 or 4 more hp from it ... it almost has to be there somewhere ... i really need another head to play with ... dont want to spend $150 on a slip on pipe just to find out it just makes it sound better and i think the carb is about as good as it is going to get, although i may try one size jet bigger (at 115 right now) ... i just cant see any reason that 230cc cant make 20hp, but i have been wrong once before, yep, just that one time :lmao:

[BlackBike]

Remember mad max? You need "a blower man, a blower" !:lmao:

[2LZ]

so you think these are pulling at the max right now? is there any way to be sure? what about a degree or two on the timing? i just need to find a way to get 3 or 4 more hp from it ... it almost has to be there somewhere ... i really need another head to play with ... dont want to spend $150 on a slip on pipe just to find out it just makes it sound better and i think the carb is about as good as it is going to get, although i may try one size jet bigger (at 115 right now) ... i just cant see any reason that 230cc cant make 20hp, but i have been wrong once before, yep, just that one time :lmao:
Oh! believe me! I understand the need to find something to play with and mod. My Rhino has been the recent recipient of my OCD.

All I can advise if this. Engine mods need to balance all the way through to perform properly. It makes (almost) no difference if you change just a couple of the components along that path, if you're wanting max output. Start at the breather and work your way through to the tail pipe. If you open, change or modify the carb, the exhaust (and cat removal) need to be done, as well or it won't allow the mod upstream to perform to its maximum. Just picture sucking on a drinking straw. If the straw will only allow so much air through it, it doesn't matter if the straw had a garden hose hooked up to it upstream. The straw will only allow so much volume regardless of how hard you suck. Also, I've never had to adjust timing on any CB I've had. After I checked the first couple and found they werre on, I left them alone.

As an example: On Q (200cc), It's rated at 15+ hp stock. The air box is a wonderful piece of free breathing work so there was no need to change, I just drilled a bunch of holes in the top of it. The carb is a real Mikuni CV out of the factory so it just needed proper jetting. The only real mod that needed to balance the system was the slip on pipe to free up the exhaust, since the cat was in the muffler. My header pipe is free and clear.

There was a member here who did these mods (back when Q's were the hot item) and had a dyno. He dyno'd his QLink XF 200 at 20hp after these mods.....so on an OHC motor, that extra 5 hp you're searching for is achievable, without porting, with just the basic, balanced mods. On the pushrod Hondoid motor, we have no actual dyno numbers.....but I can tell you this, my X-moto 200 (163FML) runs GREAT and has much more power with just a breather, properly jetted stock PZ carb and a cat-free exhaust with a TC2.

[SeerAtlas]

one other thing, some chat went round that the cdi used on the hawk hondoid might have a rev limiter built in. wonder if all the mfg's are doing this to save the motors. when you max out is it rather sudden or progressive?

[2LZ]

one other thing, some chat went round that the cdi used on the hawk hondoid might have a rev limiter built in. wonder if all the mfg's are doing this to save the motors. when you max out is it rather sudden or progressive?

I have yet to hit the rev limiter on my X-moto pushrod Hondoid. They're more of a torque, mid-range type of setup, it seems. Maybe I just ride mellow????