I think there's a problem with my clutch

[Riley W]

I recently bought a new Lifan 200cc engine with hopes of swapping it for my old engine on a homemade go kart. So far, I've been very successful and I'm almost ready to drive it. The only problem left is the shifting/clutch. I built a shifter kart-style shifter on the kart and I bought a normal clutch cable, that works fine. The problem comes when I start the engine and put it in any other gear beside neutral, the driveshaft starts to spin at idle and when revving (obviously) My first thought was that the clutch was engaged, but when I looked at the clutch lever, and played with it, nothing happened. The clutch lever is loose and it doesn't feel like it's doing anything. I did buy pennsoil 10-30 4 stroke oil, which I think could be the problem. I just ordered some of this oil, which should be for a wet clutch http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00DJ4FGMQ/ref=s9_simh_hm_awbw_d0_g263_i3?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0D ER&pf_rd_s=mobile-hybrid-11&pf_rd_r=0G7798Y97DAR2DE86BVA&pf_rd_t=30901&pf_rd_p=8f081f76-1d88-576c-bbdf-d6fc0e58427d&pf_rd_i=15719391

I can send a video of the kart and how the engine is acting if needed.

[Adjuster]

Your talking about with the kart in the air and the tires off the ground correct? I don't think that's so unusual for the tires to spin a little. But there should be no resistance if you grab a hold of the tire and stop it from spinning or apply a little brake pressure.



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[Riley W]

Yea that was the first thing I tried, but there's a lot of resistance, I applied enough brake pressure that the engine died.

[Riley W]

http://youtu.be/LSneJ54Q2go

[Adjuster]

Yeh that has to be in gear. Are you able to shift the gears? Are you able to put it in neutral?


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[Riley W]

Yes I am able to shift through all the gears.

[SpudRider]

Oils which are labeled "energy conserving" are bad for any vehicle with a wet clutch, meaning most motorcycles. Essentially all 0w-20, 5w-30, and 10w-30 oils are energy conserving, and should not be used in your bike.

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuYO0oZr47w

[Riley W]

Thanks, I just wanted to make sure that was the only problem, I ordered valvoline 10w-40 motorcycle oil, which should be perfect right?

[SpudRider]

The 10W/40 motor oil will work with the wet clutch in your engine. However, it might take a little while for the 'energy conserving oil' to be displaced by the new oil. ;)

[Riley W]

Today, the oil came in the mail and I exchanged it for the old oil, the first thing I did was let it run for a while, about 20 minutes at idle. Is there anything else I could do to help get the clutch free?

[SpudRider]

If you can operate the cart for a few miles, the new oil will gradually replace the old oil. If the clutch won't work, you can remove the clutch plates and soak them overnight in the new engine oil before replacing them. ;)

[humanbeing]

...If the clutch won't work, you can remove the clutch plates and soak them overnight in the new engine oil before replacing them. ;)
http://youtu.be/LnPktdVsIyU

[Riley W]

I've been running the kart for about 1hour each day for the past 2 days. I haven't seen any results, no matter what gear I'm in (besides neutral) the driveshaft is spinning, when I try to brake the engine either dies, or nothing happens when I brake. Same problems even though I switched out the oil. do I have to open up the engine and do any work with the clutch? Or will the engine need more time running with the new oil? Opening up the engine is a problem for me as of right now. So I would prefer not dismantling the clutch to replace it or soak it. Thanks.

[Riley W]

Bump

[Bruce's]

I just looked at your. video ,it shows you easily moving the clutch lever on top of the transmision with your fingers ,you should not be able to do that .I would take the right side engine cover off and see what's going on inside .I have the same engine in a dirt bike ,I just went out and tried moving it with my fingers and there is no way you should be flipping it around like that ,it takes a lot of effort just to get it to move the tiniest little bit .

[Riley W]

so ill drain the oil again and take the side cover off, but do i need a specific torque to each bolt? and if i do, how do i find out what torque? I can send a picture of clutch but i have absoulutely no idea what im looking for so hopefully you can help, thanks.

[Bruce's]

Pull the cover and we can go from there .I am fairly certain ,you are going to find something that's either disconnected or broken .

[Riley W]

I'm going to be in costa rica for about a week and a half, so I'll open up the cover once I get back.

[BARLOW]

it looked to me like the cable was just not adjusted correctly, my storm will do the exact same thing if the cable comes lose ... i just do not think you have enough slack out of the clutch arm ... take a large adjustable wrench, put it on the clutch lever (at the motor) and see if you cant just move the lever past the free play ... do not force it, but i bet it will move with a "springy" feeling and work just fine ... this is exactly what my bike does, i mean it moves just like that (it vibrated loose last week while riding)

[Riley W]

As soon as I get back I'll try that, thanks

[Riley W]

Ok so I got back and tried moving the clutch lever with a wrench, and it worked, i was able to move the clutch arm more and it had a lot of tension on it. Although i'm still facing the problem that i cant brake, once i start the engine, the drive shaft is constantly moving, and theirs no way to stop it with out the engine dying, or it being in neutral. i have a video already posted showing the drive shaft moving the entire time, if you need a better video or more info just ask. As of now, i cant drive it or else i would be constantly moving and there would be no way to brake without the engine dying. pls help thanks

[Riley W]

bump

[BARLOW]

so did you try the brakes while using the wrench to work the clutch, it still sounds like the cable is to loose

[Riley W]

yea i did, the engine just died.

[Riley W]

even if that did work i dont want to pull the clutch in every time i brake.

[BARLOW]

even if that did work i dont want to pull the clutch in every time i brake.
then you need an auto (cvt, or semi auto) not one with a clutch, when working correctly, you need the clutch to stop (or it must be in neutral) if just slowing and not shifting down, you would not need the clutch

[Riley W]

I took a video explaining things better and showing the problems. In the video I wasn't able to actually engage the clutch because I needed two hands. But I have and nothing happened. http://youtu.be/Zuo7rTNFBFM

[Riley W]

I didn't notice I had to pull in the clutch when I brake, I'm totally ok with that, for my setup what do you suggest I do.

[BARLOW]

from the video it is working as it should ... unless you have held the clutch lever and hit the brakes at the same time and it still dies ... when you do not have the clutch lever moved to the front, it should die when the axle stops ... get a wire or small rope, move the lever as far to the front as you can and tie it off so it holds it there, while it is forward as far as it can go, then stop the axle and it should stay running

[Riley W]

Thanks I'll tell you what happens in a bit

[BARLOW]

I didn't notice I had to pull in the clutch when I brake, I'm totally ok with that, for my setup what do you suggest I do.
if this was my cart, i would put a clutch lever on the shifter, so you squeeze the clutch as you shift, but others put them on the steering wheel, like a paddle shifter

[BARLOW]

Thanks I'll tell you what happens in a bit
ok man, good luck

[Riley W]

Unfortunately I got no result from engaging the clutch. When I pulled the clutch in really hard and braked, the engine died

[Riley W]

Should I get my clutch replaced?

[BARLOW]

Should I get my clutch replaced?
no, it is not clutch plates or disks ... there is still something out of adjustment ... you may even be missing something ... can you locate a friend that knows about clutches, i cant do much from here to help

[Riley W]

yea ill take it to a motorcycle shop, thanks so much for all the help :)

[BARLOW]

Should I get my clutch replaced?
no, the plates and disks seem to be working, you may be missing something, or something still needs adjusted inside ... try to locate someone that knows clutches and can help you open it up ... is it new, it may be under warranty

[Riley W]

I actually can't take it too someone but it seems pretty simple if you can guide me through diagnosing the clutch, I took a video of the inside of the crankcase. This is my first real engine I've ever worked on and I'm 15 so I can't really understand what's wrong with it because I haven't ever seen one before. http://youtu.be/wsjd1ZfagiU

[Riley W]

bump.

[Riley W]

Bump

[Riley W]

i know how to clutch works in my engine but i dont know whats wrong with it, pls help.

[Riley W]

Bump

[Riley W]

Bump
Bump

[Bruce's]

Your clutch basket is definately too loose ,can't see enough from your video to tell what else might be going on .You need to figure out a way to hold the clutch while you remove the nuts ,a strap wrench ,a chain wrench ,a large set of channelock pliers ,putting it in gear with the wheel on the ground to keep it from moving ,etc ,you are a pretty smart guy with what you have figured out so far ,this should be easy for you .
Is this engine brand new ?is there any warranty ?you might wish to send it back and let them deal with it if it's above your pay grade ,but learning is definately more fun .

[Riley W]

yea i dont really want to send the engine back, i think its best for me to learn about problems and fix them, i have dreams of restoring a 69 camaro and i want to learn as much as i can before a get the car so im not completely clueless. I already took the four bolts off and springs with a electric torque wrench, but i ran into a problem with that other thing next to the clutch (I don't know what its called) its overlapping the clutch disks and plate, i cant remove it without removing the thing next to it. I already tried removing the thing next to it but after i took out the screws with the torque wrench, there wasn't a clear way of removing the rest, and i gave up right there because i had other things to deal with, I've been just cleaning up the frame for now, what should i do regarding the clutch and the thing next to it? I can send another video today showing the point that i got to until i gave up for the day. Should I?

Thanks again Bruce, nowadays you cant really get education about automobiles and engines and this website is great for just that.:):):):):):):):):)

[BARLOW]

yea i dont really want to send the engine back, i think its best for me to learn about problems and fix them, i have dreams of restoring a 69 camaro and i want to learn as much as i can before a get the car so im not completely clueless. I already took the four bolts off and springs with a electric torque wrench, but i ran into a problem with that other thing next to the clutch (I don't know what its called) its overlapping the clutch disks and plate, i cant remove it without removing the thing next to it. I already tried removing the thing next to it but after i took out the screws with the torque wrench, there wasn't a clear way of removing the rest, and i gave up right there because i had other things to deal with, I've been just cleaning up the frame for now, what should i do regarding the clutch and the thing next to it? I can send another video today showing the point that i got to until i gave up for the day. Should I?

Thanks again Bruce, nowadays you cant really get education about automobiles and engines and this website is great for just that.:):):):):):):):):)
i have tried 3 times to reply to this thread, ill give it 1 more try ... if you could get some pics of everything you took off, and everything still on it ti would maybe help us see what the trouble is

[SpudRider]

Thanks for your persistent desire to help. :) The third time was the charm. ;)

[BARLOW]

Thanks for your persistent desire to help. :) The third time was the charm. ;)yep, not sure what was going on, but i had tried to post many replys after he asked about a new clutch :shrug:

[SpudRider]

Whatever the problem, it's fixed now. :tup:

[Bruce's]

A few pictures will help us for sure .

[Riley W]

Heres a video of the clutch with the four springs and bolts off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdgC2QSY_2M

[Riley W]

bump

[Bruce's]

My old eyes can't see exactly how to get the piece on the end of the crank off ( I Beleive you called it a thing ) ,but once you get it off ,if you look at the shaft coming through the clutch ,there is a ring around the shaft with two small holes in it called a snap ring (I Beleive you had called it a thing ) ,there are special pliers called "thing "pliers.....sorry that's not quite right ,snap ring pliers that make it easy to remove the snap ring then pull the clutch off the shaft .There are other ways to remove the snap ring but they all will have you saying words your little sister should not hear and you could hurt your fingers a little .The pliers should be pretty inexpensive at harbour freight or northern tool ,etc.If you only buy one pair of pliers ,the one needed for your snap ring are of the external type ,there are also internal snap rings and pliers ,as well as sets of pliers that can be set up to do both kinds of snap rings .If you are enjoying playing in the garage ,buy a dedicated pair of pliers ,the convertible ones are often not so good .
It might be possible to remove the clutch by sneaking it around the piece on the end of the crank ,but from the angle of the video I don't think it's possible in this case .

[Bruce's]

http://t.harborfreight.com/11-piece-snap-ring-pliers-set-92374.html?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.c a%2F

Looks like a dandy little set for little money

[SpudRider]

http://t.harborfreight.com/11-piece-snap-ring-pliers-set-92374.html?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.c a%2F

Looks like a dandy little set for little money

I own that set of snap ring pliers. Given the low price, it's a pretty good set. ;)

[humanbeing]

https://josemaco.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/storm-english-62ktjam5.pdf
Edu prog for rural population by http://www.crdenet.net.cn/about.htm
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[Riley W]

i think the only problem i have left is how to take off the "thing"' (i would like to know what its called) next to the clutch off after i get the 3 screws off, ill show a picture today, but in the video it also shows it, but it doesnt really explain how to take it off.

[Bruce's]

I can't see enough of the thing to figure out exactly what it is ,although I do have a zongshen 250 cc bike here ,I have not done anything to the engine besides oil changes and some carb swapping .Hopefully it's the blower or an internal turbo !

[Riley W]

that would awesome if it was a turbo, but i gurantee it isnt, theres no turbines or anything similar to that, it could be a oil filter or something, regardless i cant get it off the crankshaft, ill show a picture in a bit.

[BlackBike]

I can't see enough of the thing to figure out exactly what it is ,although I do have a zongshen 250 cc bike here ,I have not done anything to the engine besides oil changes and some carb swapping .Hopefully it's the blower or an internal turbo !

:lmao:

[Riley W]

ok so i tried loosening the bolt and i found a huge crack in the teeth of the gears on the outer part of the clutch, really unfortunate, but im looking into getting the engine replaced, or a refund. I cant believe this eBay seller would send something as damaged as this, hopefully i can get a full refund or a new engine. I might need more help in the future with new projects, or even this one. For now, this thread will be closed. Thanks for all the help.:thanks:

[BlackBike]

ok so i tried loosening the bolt and i found a huge crack in the teeth of the gears on the outer part of the clutch, really unfortunate, but im looking into getting the engine replaced, or a refund. I cant believe this ebay seller would send something as damaged as this, hopefully i can get a full refund or a new engine. I might need more help in the future with new projects, or even this one. For now, this thread will be closed. Thanks for all the help.:thanks:

go get em.....charge !

[Bruce's]

I am sorry to see you stop ,but honestly it's probably best at this point ,there is no reason you should be fixing something you bought as a new or undamaged item .Do you mind taking a few better pictures of the turbo ?I am interested in seeing what they have going on there .
Bruce.

[Riley W]

I dont thinks its a turbo, but i might be wrong. I cant take a picture for a bit. but i will when i get the chance.

[Riley W]

FINALLY FINISHED! i went to a repair shop and somehow the clutch plates were badly worn. I have no idea how, since i haven't truly used the engine yet. Huge thanks to all the people who helped me along the build. Anyways, heres the video. :thanks::thanks::thanks::thanks:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdc3E7RI9og Theres a really nice blue flame when i barely hit the redline, definitely turned me on when i saw it on video