Just hit 800 miles on my vader! [Archive]

PhildoScaggins

07-07-2017, 07:23 AM

Currently it is my only ride as my WRX is out of commission. The soft break in has helped. It has been sputtering at around 6k when at cruising speed. Last night I was taking it on a ride, it sounded badass... well it wasn't.
http://i.imgur.com/Nf2tiIIh.jpg
Exhaust just snapped right off.>:(
so it looks like I'll be walking the 40 miles to work.

lildew

07-07-2017, 08:13 AM

post some pictures of this happened to a buddy last weekend when we rode on his Vader curious to see if its in the same spot or not.

Not So Mild

07-07-2017, 08:37 AM

Hmm... what are the chances your exhaust looks something like this?
10320

10321

10322

Or did your exhaust tear off from the opposite end?

And just a short PSA: be careful trying to stunt too hard on these bad boys.

PhildoScaggins

07-07-2017, 09:03 AM

Hmm... what are the chances your exhaust looks something like this?

Or did your exhaust tear off from the opposite end?

Did the picture not show up in my post? I can see it when I look at it on my end. But yeah it looks almost exactly like that.

Not So Mild

07-07-2017, 09:11 AM

I'm just getting the "The image you are requesting does not exist or is no longer available" box from imgur. Even when opening in a new tab. Not sure if you have the picture set to private or something (I typically don't upload to imgur so I'm no help there).

Out of curiosity, what were you doing when yours broke? I'm not sure exactly when mine broke, but I had been trying to do some rolling stoppies for hours prior to checking it out in the garage. I had also laid the bike down on the opposite side that the exhaust runs immediately before calling it quits for the night. I don't believe laying down the bike snapped the exhaust, it was pretty slow and I lowered it down. I think mine snapped due to the force of all the stoppies. Guess I'll have to transition from the front wheel to the back.

Did the picture not show up in my post? I can see it when I look at it on my end. But yeah it looks almost exactly like that.

PhildoScaggins

07-07-2017, 09:12 AM

Also I plan on riding it home from work today. hopefully its not too big of a deal. I have another exhaust at home but I'm gonna have to heat it up with a torch and bend it. The angle of the grom exhaust is a lil different

PhildoScaggins

07-07-2017, 12:41 PM

I'm just getting the "The image you are requesting does not exist or is no longer available" box from imgur.

Out of curiosity, what were you doing when yours broke?

Yeah the imgur app is kinda garbage. I was just going for a cruise. About 3 miles of my daily commute is dirt roads though. It broke exactly like yours, except the front weld just came unbolted.

MOTOXtreme

07-07-2017, 01:06 PM

Interesting. Makes me a little nervous actually. I'm debating a vader myself. The rest of the frame / welds seem pretty good?

Not So Mild

07-07-2017, 01:24 PM

Yeah, I understand your concern. After seeing my exhaust fall off, and having to deal with all the other nuances of a Chinese bike, I ask myself quite often if it's worth it and tbh I don't regret my purchase. From the glimpses of my bike I keep posting, I'm sure you can tell I have about $900 wrapped up in aftermarket mods, and yet my bike is still way cheaper than a used Grom. Once you get the bike figured out, it becomes extremely easy to find fixes to future breakdowns.

To answer your question: yes, from what I've seen all the other welds look pretty good. I honestly think mine broke from all the force from stoppies I've been doing. I blame myself for the exhaust breaking. This is the first case we've seen of a weld failing on the bike, but most people on these forums are running low mount exhaust so they are using different points on the bike to mount theirs.

I think the cause of the exhaust breaking is that one of the welds is bad, and the 2nd one broke because it had all the extra weight on it.

@PhildoScaggins, you mentioned one of your bolts came out, I'm guessing you mean that the farthest rear bolt came loose, and your exhaust weld ripped off on the can like mine did (2nd picture I posted). If that's the case, an aftermarket exhaust, or reinforcing the weld (if possible) would be a fairly easy fix to anybody who's concerned about this problem.

Interesting. Makes me a little nervous actually. I'm debating a vader myself. The rest of the frame / welds seem pretty good?

MOTOXtreme

07-07-2017, 01:34 PM

Good to know. Supposedly the newest batch of Vaders arriving to wholsellers is going to be modeled after the 2017 grom so the exhaust may be mounted differently. We'll see. Thanks for the reply.

PhildoScaggins

07-07-2017, 01:45 PM

@PhildoScaggins, you mentioned one of your bolts came out, I'm guessing you mean that the farthest rear bolt came loose, and your exhaust weld ripped off on the can like mine did (2nd picture I posted). If that's the case, an aftermarket exhaust, or reinforcing the weld (if possible) would be a fairly easy fix to anybody who's concerned about this problem.

It was actually the front tab that lost the bolt and the rear tab broke like yours. the weld were the pipe meets the muffler broke too. I bought one of these
(http://www.msx125accessories.com/exhausts/honda-grom-msx125-mad-exhaust-shorty-low-mount) that I need to bend the pipe a lil bit. crossing my fingers.

culcune

07-09-2017, 04:47 AM

Good to know. Supposedly the newest batch of Vaders arriving to wholsellers is going to be modeled after the 2017 grom so the exhaust may be mounted differently. We'll see. Thanks for the reply.

Vader also puts out a bike that looks like the SSR Razkull and the Ice Bear Mini Monster. I wonder if everything is identical to the Vader, or had they improved things?

https://www.venommotorsportscanada.com/collections/super-pocket-bikes/products/2017-venom-x21-motorcycle-125cc

Kronik calls by its proper brand name: Boom http://www.kronikracing.com/Boom-Lil-Duc_p_398.html

PhildoScaggins

07-09-2017, 07:49 AM

Vader also puts out a bike that looks like the SSR Razkull and the Ice Bear Mini Monster. I wonder if everything is identical to the Vader, or had they improved things?l[/url]

I think the mini monster has tires that are an inch bigger? other than that I'm pretty sure they're the same motor wise.

PhildoScaggins

07-09-2017, 07:53 AM

So I pretty much ruined the exhaust I bought to get it on my bike, looks like crap.
http://i.imgur.com/mkTm1S7h.jpg
I needed something, just had to hack it on so I could get to work the next day. I was thinking about buying one of these (http://www.msx125accessories.com/exhausts/honda-grom-msx125-shorty-low-mount-exhaust-s1?sort=p.price&order=ASC) but I remember maxipad said he had to modify his kickstand. They dont look like you'd need to. Anyone else have experience with one of these exhausts?

NnuttHowz3

07-09-2017, 11:57 PM

Vader also puts out a bike that looks like the SSR Razkull and the Ice Bear Mini Monster. I wonder if everything is identical to the Vader, or had they improved things?

Check out my post here about the Venom x21 (http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=19490) aka Boom BD-125-8. They are pretty much the same bike

So I pretty much ruined the exhaust I bought to get it on my bike, looks like crap.
http://i.imgur.com/mkTm1S7h.jpg
I needed something, just had to hack it on so I could get to work the next day. I was thinking about buying one of these (http://www.msx125accessories.com/exhausts/honda-grom-msx125-shorty-low-mount-exhaust-s1?sort=p.price&order=ASC) but I remember maxipad said he had to modify his kickstand. They dont look like you'd need to. Anyone else have experience with one of these exhausts?

That is the exhaust I have on my bike. I didn't attempt to mount it on the kick stand side but it does want to go that way. We heated mine up and bent it to go the other way and changed the bend a little to match these bikes

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t86/bmxphotoman/Venom%20X21/IMG_20170628_210917_zpsqlljmwje.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/bmxphotoman/media/Venom%20X21/IMG_20170628_210917_zpsqlljmwje.jpg.html)

PhildoScaggins

07-10-2017, 06:48 AM

That is the exhaust I have on my bike. I didn't attempt to mount it on the kick stand side but it does want to go that way. We heated mine up and bent it to go the other way and changed the bend a little to match these bikes

Thanks nutt! How hard was it to bend once heated? I tried bending mine with a vice after I heated it and didn't have much luck. It seems much easier than relocating the kickstand though!

Not So Mild

07-11-2017, 02:14 PM

We ended up welding my factory exhaust back together and to the frame of the bike. I went a little easier on the bike this weekend, but definitely tested the limits. I would say that if you are worried about this happening and you are able to, just reinforce the welds a little bit. I ended up ordering a new can for my exhaust (similar to prismways). Anyways should be in this week. I needed a shorter can for my bike so figured this was a good excuse to buy one.

prismways

07-12-2017, 02:15 PM

I don't think you will be disappointed with the new exhaust.

We ended up welding my factory exhaust back together and to the frame of the bike. I went a little easier on the bike this weekend, but definitely tested the limits. I would say that if you are worried about this happening and you are able to, just reinforce the welds a little bit. I ended up ordering a new can for my exhaust (similar to prismways). Anyways should be in this week. I needed a shorter can for my bike so figured this was a good excuse to buy one.

Skin Mechanic

07-13-2017, 01:53 PM

I've been thinking about doing a underbelly exhaust on mine. You wanna sell it?

So I pretty much ruined the exhaust I bought to get it on my bike, looks like crap.
http://i.imgur.com/mkTm1S7h.jpg

PhildoScaggins

07-14-2017, 10:16 AM

I've been thinking about doing a underbelly exhaust on mine. You wanna sell it?

Want to trade? It would need a bit of adjustment to fit your bike probably. It's kinda loud, but deff lets the bike breathe better than the stock. Also do you have a link to a good set of engine bolts? I went through my second set after about 500mi.

Skin Mechanic

07-19-2017, 05:53 PM

Want to trade? It would need a bit of adjustment to fit your bike probably. It's kinda loud, but deff lets the bike breathe better than the stock. Also do you have a link to a good set of engine bolts? I went through my second set after about 500mi.

If my exhaust was still stock I would, but I hacked it apart and gutted it. The guys I ride with say my bike sounds like a chainsaw. I couldn't in clear conscience pawn that cobbled together POS on you. As for the motor mount bolts, I ended up using these;

https://www.mcmaster.com/#91257a118/=18kj7a2

I had ordered some 8mm Allen head screws but the threads didn't clear the edge of the motor mounts. IIRC, a 13mm wrench will work on a 5/16" bolt. I packed the bolt holes with marine grease before bolting everything together. I've put almost 1000 miles on the bike since the last repair without incident, but I'm having issues with chain tension now.

martim

07-19-2017, 11:20 PM

Hi Guys,

New to the site...any recs on exhaust, carburator and airfilter for these bikes?

Mine is identical to the white one in the photos below.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks,

NnuttHowz3

07-21-2017, 04:19 PM

Hi Guys,

New to the site...any recs on exhaust, carburator and airfilter for these bikes?

Mine is identical to the white one in the photos below.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks,

Hey Martim,

Just helped you on Amazon. Make a new thread here post some pictures of your new ride and post your questions there.it will be much easier for answers vs all the posts you have made in these threads!

NnuttHowz3

07-21-2017, 04:30 PM

Thanks nutt! How hard was it to bend once heated? I tried bending mine with a vice after I heated it and didn't have much luck. It seems much easier than relocating the kickstand though!

Sorry missed this earlier did you get it?

We used a vice and a metal punch inserted into the exhaust and bent it, slowly.

PhildoScaggins

07-23-2017, 06:47 AM

Skin Mechanic

07-23-2017, 08:33 AM

>:(
So over the course of two days I broke a lot. This happened at about 1400 miles
http://i.imgur.com/WOMoMgIl.jpg

So I decided to put my original exhaust back on as a straight pipe (remember that broke too). About 40 miles later I hear some exhaust noise and this happened
http://i.imgur.com/0xjLQqpl.jpg
Oh boy.

So I figured since my bike was gonna be out of commission till I get that broken bolt removed I figured I'd take on the carb in the meantime. I took off the emissions junk and what do I find?

http://i.imgur.com/08vwQWHl.jpg

So I guess I've got my work cut out for me.

Damn dood! you've got worse luck than me! Why is your engine eat up with rust? Don't use an easy out extractor to remove the studs, and don't use a helicoil for the repair. Drill out the studs with a silicon carbide bit and use a threaded insert like Acme, Keensert, keysert, etc.

PhildoScaggins

07-23-2017, 09:43 AM

Damn dood! you've got worse luck than me! Why is your engine eat up with rust? Don't use an easy out extractor to remove the studs, and don't use a helicoil for the repair. Drill out the studs with a silicon carbide bit and use a threaded insert like Acme, Keensert, keysert, etc.

I think it looks like rust, it's covered in dirt and grime. Maybe a tiny bit of rust from riding in the rain/not washing it. Coastal salt air maybe?

So an easyout sounds like a bad idea? It's all I got at the moment.

Skin Mechanic

07-23-2017, 10:42 AM

The only thing an easy out is good for is breaking off in an engine block. Then you have the drama of trying to drill out a bit that's harder than Chinese calculus. I've had bad experiences with easy outs, especially working in confined spaces. I prefer to use a centering punch and silicon carbide drill bits.

Mudflap

07-23-2017, 11:33 AM

The most reliable way I've found to remove a broken stud is to place a nut over it and weld through the center. Has worked every time I've done it. Quick and easy.

MOTOXtreme

07-23-2017, 12:58 PM

My opinion, do NOT remove the factory threads unless ALL else fails. Id drill it out with about a 1/8 bit (quality bit, not some crap bit) and then heat up the area AROUND the stud (not applying heat to the stud directly if you can avoid it ) , spray liquid wrench on it and then you should be able to remove it with the tip of the easy out, tapping in a cheap Phillips driver or whatever.

Emerikol

07-23-2017, 10:21 PM

Skin;

That really sucks, Dude. One of my riding buddies broke off BOTH of the exhaust studs on his DR when he was doing some work a few weeks ago. We used a set like this to get the old studs out, and replaced them with heat treated grade 8.8 bolts from Fastenal.

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/hanson-25-piece-hex-head-multi-spline-extractor-set-han53227/25980786-p?c3ch=PLA&c3nid=25980786-P&c3apidt=22523718270&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIv9z-4uyg1QIVkYizCh1JVgEaEAQYAyABEgId7fD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

They also have a set of extractors that go over nuts, or exposed studs. Unfortunately it looks like your studs broke flush to the casting. I agree 110% that the first step should be drilling out the center (make sure to use a center punch so the drill bit doesn't walk on you) of the stud with a GOOD QUALITY drill bit. Give me a shout if you have any issues and I'll do my best to help out.

Skin Mechanic

07-24-2017, 06:02 AM

The most reliable way I've found to remove a broken stud is to place a nut over it and weld through the center. Has worked every time I've done it. Quick and easy.

My nephew used this trick to extract a coupla broken exhaust manifold studs in his F150.

JerryHawk250

07-24-2017, 08:04 AM

The most reliable way I've found to remove a broken stud is to place a nut over it and weld through the center. Has worked every time I've done it. Quick and easy. I used that method a few weeks ago to remove a broken exhaust bolt on my truck. Works way better than a bolt extractor and much quicker.

PhildoScaggins

11-09-2017, 01:28 PM

BlackBike

11-09-2017, 07:01 PM

Hey gang,

It's been a minute, but I'm finally fed up with not having my vader fixed/running. I know the season is pretty much over here in NE but now I have time to fix. I've decided I'm going to use helicoil inserts to fix my exhaust stud and emissions bolt (see earlier in thread). Are the stud and bolt sizes M6x1.0 for both of those? Just want to make sure before I drill and tap!

Just slot it with the dremmel and penetrating spray. It may cut into the flat portion just a wee bit on either side of the bolt but there is wncogh flange that it won't cause a problem. Wou will have it done in 10 min and go back with your grade 8 bolt like emerikol says...bota Bing bota boom.

PhildoScaggins

11-10-2017, 07:22 AM

Just slot it with the dremmel and penetrating spray. It may cut into the flat portion just a wee bit on either side of the bolt but there is wncogh flange that it won't cause a problem.

I might be able to do that with the emissions bolt but the exhaust stud is pretty far in there. I'm just not sure of the size and pitch of the bolt.

Emerikol

11-10-2017, 09:56 AM

Phildo, if the leftover bits are broken off that far down, I would say oversize the hole by one drill size, and make it whatever thread pitch you can most easily get hardware for. That way the existing hole will help center the drill as you bore through the old stud. Make sense? If you're using a heli-coil kit, that should pretty much make the sizing decisions for you. Let us know how it works out.

Jamesfl

11-16-2017, 05:00 PM

Vader also puts out a bike that looks like the SSR Razkull and the Ice Bear Mini Monster. I wonder if everything is identical to the Vader, or had they improved things?

https://www.venommotorsportscanada.com/collections/super-pocket-bikes/products/2017-venom-x21-motorcycle-125cc

Kronik calls by its proper brand name: Boom http://www.kronikracing.com/Boom-Lil-Duc_p_398.html
I actually recently acquired the Vader that looks like the SSR Razkull. Perhaps I can help answer some questions once I have owned the bike for a bit longer.

PhildoScaggins

11-20-2017, 01:43 PM

Hellcat Rider

11-20-2017, 05:16 PM

Emerikol

11-20-2017, 06:47 PM

Well, I should've listened to you guys. I fucked up. I got the bolt out of the emissions thing with an easy out. I tried the same thing with the exhaust stud and snapped the easy out off inside. I hate to say it but I think this motor is toast :( Trying to figure out where to go from here.

I'm with Hellcat - Post some pictures and let's see if we can't talk you through a solution. Easy-Outs are usually harder than most drill bits, and bigger problem is getting the bit to center into the broken off bit. Anything can be fixed if the right approach is made. Let's help you to find that approach. Pictures would be the best first step.