So the choices that are decent seem to be......

[Border411]

So upon my quasi-hijacking of another thread, and my ridiculous amount of research thus far, here are the street-legal(ish) bikes that are out there in 250cc form. Now, I know that there are some questions regarding if some of these can be plated for road use (especially in VA), but I wanted to throw them out there. I looked at a ton of pages on these forums, and I didnt see an all inclusive thread, hence this one.

Still on the fence if I want to have a dual-sport bike, or one that is made for offroad use, but might be able to be converted. If anyone has any of these, please let me know your mods, if any, and the positives/negatives that you have found. Parts availability information would also be helpful. Thanks for helping out a complete rookie in this area!

If I missed any, please let me know as well. I am asking you all your opinions since I am new to the "Chinese Bike" scene, and have been out of dirt biking for some time now. Not in the market quit yet, but want to get your opinions, and if the price difference of some of them is worth it. Prices listed are SHIPPED prices:

ROAD LEGAL AS IS:
1)Hawk 250 $1300
2)CSC TT250 $2200
3)SSR XF250 $2800
NEW)Bashan Enforcer 250 $1500

QUESTIONABLE IF CAN BE MADE ROAD LEGAL:
4)Apollo 250 $1600
5)SSR SR250S $3700
6)Pitster Pro XTR T4 250LC $2800
7)Pitster Pro LXR 250F $4000
8)???????

[Ariel Red Hunter]

So upon my quasi-hijacking of another thread, and my ridiculous amount of research thus far, here are the street-legal(ish) bikes that are out there in 250cc form. Now, I know that there are some questions regarding if some of these can be plated for road use (especially in VA), but I wanted to throw them out there. I looked at a ton of pages on these forums, and I didnt see an all inclusive thread, hence this one.

Still on the fence if I want to have a dual-sport bike, or one that is made for offroad use, but might be able to be converted. If anyone has any of these, please let me know your mods, if any, and the positives/negatives that you have found. Parts availability information would also be helpful. Thanks for helping out a complete rookie in this area!

If I missed any, please let me know as well. I am asking you all your opinions since I am new to the "Chinese Bike" scene, and have been out of dirt biking for some time now. Not in the market quit yet, but want to get your opinions, and if the price difference of some of them is worth it. Prices listed are SHIPPED prices:

ROAD LEGAL AS IS:
1)Hawk 250 $1300
2)CSC TT250 $2200
3)SSR XF250 $2800

QUESTIONABLE IF CAN BE MADE ROAD LEGAL:
4)Apollo 250 $1600
5)SSR SR250S $3700
6)Pitster Pro XTR T4 250LC $2800
7)Pitster Pro LXR 250F $4000
8)???????With the Hawk, make sure that the MCO/MSO says motorcycle on it and not dirt bike. Two missing from the street legal group is the CSC TT250, about $2200.00, and the no 49 state problem Enforcer 250 - $1300.00. ...ARH

[Border411]

With the Hawk, make sure that the MCO/MSO says motorcycle on it and not dirt bike. Two missing from the street legal group is the CSC TT250, about $2200.00, and the no 49 state problem Enforcer 250 - $1300.00. ...ARH

The TT250 was on the list. I also added the Enforcer 250.

[Wigwam Jones]

So upon my quasi-hijacking of another thread, and my ridiculous amount of research thus far, here are the street-legal(ish) bikes that are out there in 250cc form. Now, I know that there are some questions regarding if some of these can be plated for road use (especially in VA), but I wanted to throw them out there. I looked at a ton of pages on these forums, and I didnt see an all inclusive thread, hence this one.

Still on the fence if I want to have a dual-sport bike, or one that is made for offroad use, but might be able to be converted. If anyone has any of these, please let me know your mods, if any, and the positives/negatives that you have found. Parts availability information would also be helpful. Thanks for helping out a complete rookie in this area!

If I missed any, please let me know as well. I am asking you all your opinions since I am new to the "Chinese Bike" scene, and have been out of dirt biking for some time now. Not in the market quit yet, but want to get your opinions, and if the price difference of some of them is worth it. Prices listed are SHIPPED prices:

ROAD LEGAL AS IS:
1)Hawk 250 $1300
2)CSC TT250 $2200
3)SSR XF250 $2800
NEW)Bashan Enforcer 250 $1500

QUESTIONABLE IF CAN BE MADE ROAD LEGAL:
4)Apollo 250 $1600
5)SSR SR250S $3700
6)Pitster Pro XTR T4 250LC $2800
7)Pitster Pro LXR 250F $4000
8)???????

I'm still a little unclear on whether or not the Hawk/Magician enduros are genuinely street legal. Reports seem to vary. I have seen at least one listing on Craigslist from someone in NJ who was selling his having purchased and been unable to register/title it there. Others have said they did OK. So I think it's 'mostly' OK but not really rock-solid that it's OK. I'd hate to advise someone to buy a Hawk and insist that they would not have problems with registration/title where they live and then see them run into issues.

From my studying online, it appears that the Bashan dual sports have EPA/DOT certification, and that matters when it comes to registration, I believe. I've seen a few shady dealers advertise Hawks with 'DOT certified' and then "tires" in the fine print. Yes, the tires are DOT certified, not the bike.

As I continue to investigate, it appears that the first wave of dual sport bikes that arrived from China prior to the 2008 economic meltdown in the USA were often DOT/EPA, such as bikes by Qlink and others. They were mostly 200cc and they appear to be not around now, or they sell completely different bikes, not dual sports.

I passed on a Qlink XF200 the other day - kind of wish I had not. Had the much-vaunted Suzuki motor in it and it was already registered and titles in Michigan. Ah well, the finances still are not quite right.

Anyway, it does appear to me that the best indicator of genuine 'no problems' registration/title is that DOT/EPA cert in 49 of the 50 states. CARB is what California wants, am I right?

[MOTOXtreme]

Dont forget the Brozz. Am I partial because its what I chose? Yep, But I also thing its the best out of the crate bike short of the CSC TT250

[Border411]

Dont forget the Brozz. Am I partial because its what I chose? Yep, But I also thing its the best out of the crate bike short of the CSC TT250

Not take big fan of about thing with wheels smaller than 21/18.

[Sullybiker]

Hawk's ease of registration is entirely down to whoever you talk to at the DMV, or tag notary if you go that route.

You can consider the Hawk and TT250 as almost the same bike, but the premium on the TT250 is all about the unbox'n'go and support.

[Emerikol]

Border, I would put the Hawk at the top of the list as far as bang for your buck goes, but the highest hurdle you'll have to clear with it is the ability to register the bike. I would go (don't call, go stand in front of someone) down to the local DMV or Tag Office and tell them what you're doing. Make sure that the bike appears on an 'acceptable for street use' list. The extra money for the CSC is well spent if you don't get into any headaches when it comes time to put the bike on the road. There were some insane hoops I had to jump through to get a plate for my Hawk, and the hassle was more than I would wish on anyone. Here's a link to my ordeal, the misadventures start at post 12. http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=17627&page=9

[Megadan]

Border, I would put the Hawk at the top of the list as far as bang for your buck goes, but the highest hurdle you'll have to clear with it is the ability to register the bike. I would go (don't call, go stand in front of someone) down to the local DMV or Tag Office and tell them what you're doing. Make sure that the bike appears on an 'acceptable for street use' list. The extra money for the CSC is well spent if you don't get into any headaches when it comes time to put the bike on the road. There were some insane hoops I had to jump through to get a plate for my Hawk, and the hassle was more than I would wish on anyone. Here's a link to my ordeal, the misadventures start at post 12. http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=17627&page=9
I agree with all of this. Obviously the Hawk requires a bit more fiddling, but a majority of the issues are known and have fixes that have been covered by members over the years.

One thing I would say that also gives the tt250 an edge on the hawk for its price is better suspension out of the box and better support from the dealer. I love my Hawk, but a small part of me wishes I would have tried to pick up a tt250. If I do get another enduro CB, then it will most likely be the lxr 250f. The upgrades on that bike across the board make it worth the extra cost.

[sshevie]

Wigwam from what I understand from registering my Bashan shark here in Michigan as long as it has lights mirrors and turn signals you can put it on the road. Now my insurance company was a bit more picky in needed it to have motorcycle on the mso and the words dirt bike no where to be seen.

[Wigwam Jones]

Wigwam from what I understand from registering my Bashan shark here in Michigan as long as it has lights mirrors and turn signals you can put it on the road. Now my insurance company was a bit more picky in needed it to have motorcycle on the mso and the words dirt bike no where to be seen.

Thanks, that is helpful! I have seen at least one other person who stated (in September 2016, I believe) that they had successfully registered a Hawk in MI.

If I seem overly cautious, it is because I have seen some other things around here that give me pause. At least one fellow was selling a Hawk on CL in Northern MI and it did not have plates on it. I asked him if he had a title and he said "I'm told you can get one." Since he had had the bike for a couple years...it makes me think he tried and could not register it and was trying to sell it on. Another fellow I have been trying to reach is not replying to my emails or phone call voice mail message - he's selling a Hawk and it also has no plate on it in the listing and I was asking him the same thing - have a title? No reply. Makes me worry, you know?

I'm too old to buy an expensive paperweight, and I do not have a farm where I can go buzzing around offroad without plates. For me, no title means no plates which means no ride, which means I would be quite upset. And yeah, I know about Vermont, etc, etc. Like I said, I'm old and I'm not in the mood to play games. If I can't stroll into SOS and get a title, I'm not playing. Let the young guys take those kinds of risks! :)

[Merlin]

Thanks, that is helpful! I have seen at least one other person who stated (in September 2016, I believe) that they had successfully registered a Hawk in MI.

If I seem overly cautious, it is because I have seen some other things around here that give me pause. At least one fellow was selling a Hawk on CL in Northern MI and it did not have plates on it. I asked him if he had a title and he said "I'm told you can get one." Since he had had the bike for a couple years...it makes me think he tried and could not register it and was trying to sell it on. Another fellow I have been trying to reach is not replying to my emails or phone call voice mail message - he's selling a Hawk and it also has no plate on it in the listing and I was asking him the same thing - have a title? No reply. Makes me worry, you know?

I'm too old to buy an expensive paperweight, and I do not have a farm where I can go buzzing around offroad without plates. For me, no title means no plates which means no ride, which means I would be quite upset. And yeah, I know about Vermont, etc, etc. Like I said, I'm old and I'm not in the mood to play games. If I can't stroll into SOS and get a title, I'm not playing. Let the young guys take those kinds of risks! :)

Stick with Bashan and you'll have no problems.

[Wigwam Jones]

Stick with Bashan and you'll have no problems.

Agreed! Now the problem is finding a Bashan dealer that doesn't have an "F" rating with the BBB! Yes, I know that most people don't have issues with the F-rated BBB dealers. But it's a risk, even if a small one.

That's kind of why I've been looking locally for a Bashan bike in the used listings, and one that's already got a title in hand as well. Let someone else take the risk of getting a twisted pile of metal and rubber in a crate and having an F-rated dealer ignore their emails forever afterwards. Not me! ;)

I'm also still saving my pennies, so not quite ready to buy yet anyway. Just getting ready and trying to figure out the best approach for a risk-averse guy like me.

[Azhule]

I have had just as many problems with B and A rated companies... lots of ways to get around the BBB ratings :ohno:

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Thanks, that is helpful! I have seen at least one other person who stated (in September 2016, I believe) that they had successfully registered a Hawk in MI.

If I seem overly cautious, it is because I have seen some other things around here that give me pause. At least one fellow was selling a Hawk on CL in Northern MI and it did not have plates on it. I asked him if he had a title and he said "I'm told you can get one." Since he had had the bike for a couple years...it makes me think he tried and could not register it and was trying to sell it on. Another fellow I have been trying to reach is not replying to my emails or phone call voice mail message - he's selling a Hawk and it also has no plate on it in the listing and I was asking him the same thing - have a title? No reply. Makes me worry, you know?

I'm too old to buy an expensive paperweight, and I do not have a farm where I can go buzzing around offroad without plates. For me, no title means no plates which means no ride, which means I would be quite upset. And yeah, I know about Vermont, etc, etc. Like I said, I'm old and I'm not in the mood to play games. If I can't stroll into SOS and get a title, I'm not playing. Let the young guys take those kinds of risks! :)If you're that worried about risk, my recommendation is buy one of the name brands. Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzy-Q, KTM, and etc. ....ARH

[pistolclass]

hey Wigwam I think a csc tt250 is what you need. Good luck on your quest.

[goat67]

Wigwam

I went thru the same thing that you are going thru when I researched buying a bike.

The only difference was the CSC TT250 was out of stock.

If it was in stock I may have went for it.

In the end I went with Superior Power Sports and Paid with a Credit Card.
I had pretty good luck I needed a part replaced due to shipping damages.
I also had to hound them on getting the MCO but I did get it before I had the bike assembled.

I did do a tear down and mods so it was a bit of time.

If you want zero risk buy nothing or buy from a local dealer.
If you want minimal risk pay for the CSC
If you can accept the risk and are capable of assembling and tweaking a bike
take you pick from the list of known sellers pay with a credit card and you will have some protection.

It is a crapshoot you are taking your chances. I had good luck with SPS others have not.

But I think the odds of getting a bike and it working are pretty good.
If it comes in one piece with no damages.

If it needs parts that is where it gets iffy.

Good luck in your search

[sshevie]

I I had a decent experience with powerspotsmax, enough so that I would purchase from them again.also Culcune is friends with the gentlemen that owns Excalibur motorsports sounds like they are a top notch dealer

[culcune]

Excalibur does business with Kandi USA; they are practically neighbors in the industrial parks where they are in So. Cal. The problem is Kandi only bought a couple containers of the Shark and Brozz--another, seemingly flaky at times company, deals with the Storm and Enforcer (I believe that is ASPCUSA's name for the bike, not the 'actual' name; probably same with the Storm). They (Kandi) ran out of the bikes. Excalibur won't deal with the other distributor because they feel they are flaky and Alan made the point of getting parts and whatnot if there is a warranty issue, something he did not have issues with dealing with Kandi. That being said--Alan can get the Hawk as he made contacts with Adam Renkleff when he was the rep, and has gotten to know the guy who took over for Adam.

[Border411]

What's the webpage for Excaliber? There seems to be a few. If it is atv4you or something like that the "contact" link doesn't work.

[culcune]

What's the webpage for Excaliber? There seems to be a few. If it is atv4you or something like that the "contact" link doesn't work.

That is it--their website is geared towards wholesale and is also out of date. They are licensed as a retailer, but they are geared towards wholesale, and even more specific, their TGB Scooters is their mainline. But he is able to get hold of products if he knows the distributor--Taotao is one of his favorite to deal with, but they are predominantly scooters and ATV's, not dual sports, unfortunately. Alan Tang is the general manager, and pretty much answers the phone all the time. It would serve you best to call him up and ask about what bike you want. As of right now, however, the Hawk 250 or Magician would be the bikes he can get for you since he won't deal with the distributor for the Enforcer. Alan's philosophy is that he likes to deal with distributors he knows because he will have few to none issues if it comes to warranty items. He is leery of the distributor of the Enforcer.

Excalibur 909-591-8800

[Border411]

Other than the USD forks (and different plastics), what's the difference between the Enforcer and the Stallion? I'm tall, so I need a taller seat height, so is it true that the Stallion had a 29" seat height?

[MOTOXtreme]

Other than the USD forks (and different plastics), what's the difference between the Enforcer and the Stallion? I'm tall, so I need a taller seat height, so is it true that the Stallion had a 29" seat height?

Responded to you on Youtube. Thats actually another reason i sold the Brozz. I'm not tall at 5-6 &(1/2").....Damn right, I'm counting that .5 inch!! Brozz was a bit tall for me on low speed maneuvers. Cruising it was fine though.

[Duggo]

Stick with Bashan and you'll have no problems.
Please tell me more Merlin. I'm old too and I don't want a headache for 500 bucks difference, especially if that 500 comes with upgrades.

I live in Colorado as well. The DMV lady told me, "I cant find that exact manufacturer but I see similar bikes and it should be fine."

Umm, no. I just want to walk in, pay $100 for a plate and be on my way. No hassles.

[Merlin]

Please tell me more Merlin. I'm old too and I don't want a headache for 500 bucks difference, especially if that 500 comes with upgrades.

I live in Colorado as well. The DMV lady told me, "I cant find that exact manufacturer but I see similar bikes and it should be fine."

Umm, no. I just want to walk in, pay $100 for a plate and be on my way. No hassles.

I had 0 problems getting my Bashan Blaze Registered in Colorado, it was in there computer system. You will have no problem getting any Bashan bike registered in CO but they will want an inspection of the bike. :tup:

[david3921]

Just an FYI, if you have the chance again, don't let a Qlink get away. Especially the XP200. 2LZ will vouch that the 200cc Suzuki based bike exceeds any of the sub 250cc ones.

[DualSport]

I know of a guy locally who got a TT250 and put a counter-balanced six-speed CG 250 clone on it and takes it a few exits on the interstate most days of the week for work. If I knew about the engine early on I would of went that route.. That engine with the CSC head and some other mods..

https://www.yoycart.com/Product/40634641602/

I have a fleet of modded RPS bikes now though and have no plans of further investment.. They depreciate at least 1/2 the second you order them.

[Megadan]

Someone recently in this forum section linked to a count-balanced six-speed CG 250 clone engine; it may have had liquid cooling too. I can't find the thread and don't know what it goes on. TT250 is counter-balanced five-speed and seems to have the best QA and head.


Fairly sure you are thinking of the Loncin RE250 engine. Gear driven counter balancer and 6spd transmission. Not a CG clone since it is OHC, but it would bolt in place of a cg with maybe a custom set of front mount brackets at most.

[ChipToothy]

I agree with all of this. Obviously the Hawk requires a bit more fiddling, but a majority of the issues are known and have fixes that have been covered by members over the years.

One thing I would say that also gives the tt250 an edge on the hawk for its price is better suspension out of the box and better support from the dealer. I love my Hawk, but a small part of me wishes I would have tried to pick up a tt250. If I do get another enduro CB, then it will most likely be the lxr 250f. The upgrades on that bike across the board make it worth the extra cost.


For $600 more than the lxr250 you could get the 2019 BMW GS X 310. ;)

[dh]

The Qlink was my first chinabike and the quality really impressed me. The SSR has the same quality as the Qlink plus a little extra power. 20,000 miles and much of that has been rides from the Mojave Desert into LA, that's an hour and a half of mountains, traffic, and extended stretches of WOT @ 70mph plus with luggage and it does this "out of the box" or dealership. I use it frequently as a courier in Downtown LA as well and it handles the abuse very well. It's no adventure bike, but if you want to occasionally carry a passenger, luggage, or do some highway miles I would recommend the SSR.

[2LZ]

The Qlink was my first chinabike and the quality really impressed me. The SSR has the same quality as the Qlink plus a little extra power. 20,000 miles and much of that has been rides from the Mojave Desert into LA, that's an hour and a half of mountains, traffic, and extended stretches of WOT @ 70mph plus with luggage and it does this "out of the box" or dealership. I use it frequently as a courier in Downtown LA as well and it handles the abuse very well. It's no adventure bike, but if you want to occasionally carry a passenger, luggage, or do some highway miles I would recommend the SSR.

I couldn't agree more, dh. The Qingqi product (Qlink, Konker, SSR) are excellent bikes. I truly hope they get their marketing and support s__t together someday. If you see what an archaic bike like the Suzuki DR200 costs, these are a smokin' deal. Someone needs to step up to the plate like CSC did with Zongshen.

[Wild Dog]

If you see what an archaic bike like the Suzuki DR200 costs, these are a smokin' deal. Someone needs to step up to the plate like CSC did with Zongshen.

What you said is something i been preaching lately.. That DR200 has a msrp of almost 4600 dollars yet they are still using drum brake for the rear
In my eyes, the only small displacement on/off japanese brand motorcycle that's worth the price is the KLX250 2019. EFI, disc brakes in both wheels.

[wheel spinner]

Ok... Not sure why the Hawk is always a first choice for purchase... But I own a 2006 Roketa 200cc DB-07 Dual Sport which is street legal.. I have a title... I really never had a problem with it other than fixing problems the the previous owner didn't fix or broke on it... Parts are available easily .. except the throttle cable but found one in china... for 5 bucks... runs great... came from the factory with 46 rear and 17 front sprockets... she will do 65mph without problems... Of course I weigh in at 140lbs. ... I really enjoy mine and it only took me a week to decide what I wanted... paid 650 for bike and helmet... I ride mine on my 20 acre property... the wife won't let me tag it... I always keep it stored in my new shed... stays clean... so search around for Roketas... I believe that Weld had one... check them out on you tube... :D



https://www.amazon.com/Roketa-Dirt-Bike-08-250-LHJ/dp/B015QID5XO

[Merlin]

If Iam not mistaken Roketa is another name for Bashan.

[wheel spinner]

If I am not mistaken Roketa is another name for Bashan.


Not sure... but if it is this will give me another source for parts when I need them.... lol at least compare prices.... :thanks:

[culcune]

If Iam not mistaken Roketa is another name for Bashan.
Roketa used to be considered a mfg. until the owner was arrested and served time in prison for falsifying VIN #s several years ago. They regrouped and buy motorsports from all over. They show them on their site as 'Roketa...' but the bikes/quads/etc. are from any number of mfgs and will be reflected as such in the paperwork. Bashan is but one brand. The Amazon link above is indeed a Bashan Storm, for example.

[culcune]

Please tell me more Merlin. I'm old too and I don't want a headache for 500 bucks difference, especially if that 500 comes with upgrades.

I live in Colorado as well. The DMV lady told me, "I cant find that exact manufacturer but I see similar bikes and it should be fine."

Umm, no. I just want to walk in, pay $100 for a plate and be on my way. No hassles.

The problem is that Chinese manufacturers have long, drawn out names. Bashan is our shortened name, but their real name might be Bashan Astronautic Motorcycle etc etc. (not sure of name). However, they are 49 state EPA/DOT certified, and their real, complete name will be on the Mfg. Certificate of Origin. A few Bashans are on the streets of Colorado as evidenced by Merlin and member Azhule, so the proper Bashan name is in the system already for any more Bashans needing to be registered there.

[wheel spinner]

Like I said .. I do own the 2006 Roketa dual sport and on my title it does say Roketa 06... I never registered it but the previous owners did... so I guess the VIN's are not a problem on mine... I never had to add any updates on my bike.... only the bulbs to have brighter bulbs... but never had to do any upgrades.... so while others are paying for upgrades... I am out riding my bike... lol... having a good time...

[ChipToothy]

Roketa used to be considered a mfg. until the owner was arrested and served time in prison for falsifying VIN #s several years ago. They regrouped and buy motorsports from all over. They show them on their site as 'Roketa...' but the bikes/quads/etc. are from any number of mfgs and will be reflected as such in the paperwork. Bashan is but one brand. The Amazon link above is indeed a Bashan Storm, for example.


Yep my Bashan Storm came from that exact Amazon link. The Hawk, Apollo and other various smaller cc China bikes are on there too.


Wish more sellers would get on the Amazon bandwagon. Amazon has a customer financing service, credit card and the best shipping in the world. The seller gets paid in full the day of the transaction and the customer just pays Amazon by the month. Too easy! 1 day service is the new we’ll call you in 10 business days.

[DualSport]

For $600 more than the lxr250 you could get the 2019 BMW GS X 310. ;)

Or basically any low-mile with maintenance records jap dual-sport, and be able to sale it later.. My original Magician I stopped just short on investment on what I paid for my XR 650L that was two years old and garage kept at the time, and I spent a fraction on parts of what most people here have..

I'm pretty sure there are people on these forums who have spent a 2019 701 Supermoto on Shenzhen dual-sports... lol

[dh]

Or basically any low-mile with maintenance records jap dual-sport, and be able to sale it later.. My original Magician I stopped just short on investment on what I paid for my XR 650L that was two years old and garage kept at the time, and I spent a fraction on parts of what most people here have..

I'm pretty sure there are people on these forums who have spent a 2019 701 Supermoto on Shenzhen dual-sports... lol

Congrats on finding a 2 year old XR 650L for the price of a Magician ($1,400) but this means the XR 650L lost 80% of its value in two years? Yikes. I wish I could find one of these low-mile maintenance record unicorn Jap bikes in my area but in California there is high demand for dual sports. Out here, Magician money might get you a nice 1980's XL600 but the parts will not be cheap.

[2LZ]

Congrats on finding a 2 year old XR 650L for the price of a Magician ($1,400) but this means the XR 650L lost 80% of its value in two years? Yikes. I wish I could find one of these low-mile maintenance record unicorn Jap bikes in my area but in California there is high demand for dual sports. Out here, Magician money might get you a nice 1980's XL600 but the parts will not be cheap.

I couldn't agree more. I searched CL and local papers for almost a year before I finally pulled the trigger on a pair of Hensim's. Everything I found (that didn't immediately vanish) was 10 year old, sun-baked junk for a ton of $$$.

[Wild Dog]

I couldn't agree more. I searched CL and local papers for almost a year before I finally pulled the trigger on a pair of Hensim's. Everything I found (that didn't immediately vanish) was 10 year old, sun-baked junk for a ton of $$$.

Indeed, if i could get a mint 2016 XR 650L for 1400, i would get a few of them... But some people seems to be lucky and get unreal deals on expensive vehicles.

[Azhule]

Or...

https://myclassroomlibrary.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/pinocchio.jpg

:hehe:

Just kidding, I'm also one of those unlucky folk who check the "For Sale Ads" all the damn time... I was lucky to get my old 1999 KLR 650 for the price you got a "new" XR650 for

[Megadan]

Indeed, if i could get a mint 2016 XR 650L for 1400, i would get a few of them... But some people seems to be lucky and get unreal deals on expensive vehicles.

That's because the exception to the rule becomes the rule when the person in question has a heavy bias against the thing he is comparing it to.

Case in point, the $600 price difference on the bike I mentioned vs. the ones being compared to. Oversimplified bench racing rubbish taken out of context on a post I made 18 months ago. Back then you could pick up an LXR250F for $3900 quite easily, thus making the price difference more than $1000.

Then we can ignore everything that the LXR 250F comes with, because it's convenient when having a negative bias. We will just act like it is a typical cheap clone like the Hawks/Bashans/etc. We can ignore the many hardware upgrades it comes with.

I am not saying you couldn't go get a decent used comparable bike like a Honda CRF250 (and then add a headlight/tail light/gauges/stator/reg-rec/ switches, and turn signals to make it have everything the lxr came with to make it road "legal") but as has already been pointed out, most of them have been run hard and put up wet. Almost every used Japanese dual sport in my area comes at a premium price and requires a lot of repairs and maintenance to get it up to spec. I look quite often to try and catch a good deal, but they are few and far between, so I stick to the status quo - aka reality.

[DualSport]

Congrats on finding a 2 year old XR 650L for the price of a Magician ($1,400) but this means the XR 650L lost 80% of its value in two years? Yikes. I wish I could find one of these low-mile maintenance record unicorn Jap bikes in my area but in California there is high demand for dual sports. Out here, Magician money might get you a nice 1980's XL600 but the parts will not be cheap.

"I stopped just short on investment".............

EDIT: Let's see... Where can you buy a 2019 XR 650L($6,999) bought new a week ago for $4,037 since it's my(<-notice the italics) understanding that is wrong?

[Megadan]

"I stopped just short on investment"..............


By all means show us where a Hawk with $2,500 invested in modding is getting more than $1,000 on the used market.. First thing the public is going to do is Google "RPS Magician" or "RPS Hawk" and offer you less than 1/2 what Google Shopping or TX or Q9 is listing..

The last big listing even on this forum was a Hawk with close to $3,000 invested in mint condition selling for $950.00 OBO...

2500 invested in modding or with the price of the bike included?

I have one of the most modified Hawks on here and I haven't even broken $1000 in mods. Not even close to it.

Maybe if I upgraded to some better rims I would reach that point, but as it sits? Maybe $2000 including the cost of the bike. Would I get more than a grand for it if I try to sell it, probably not, but I also don't plan on selling it.

Even going to town and doing full bolt on upgrades would be hard pressed to spend more than about $600. Obviously that will change depending on the parts purchased - you can buy 3 ebay exhausts for one FMF system for example.

Anybody with some basic common sense should know that these bikes have little to no resale value second hand. I went into buying one absolutely knowing this to be true.

[DualSport]

Hour from my house(I was nice and didn't do a deep search for even newer).. Dealership work 300 miles ago with 800 miles.. 3 years old.. $4,800 OBO https://fayetteville.craigslist.org/mpo/d/spring-lake-2016-honda-xr650l/6827422424.html. In 2030 you'll get at least $2,000 for it..

By the way I paid $3,200 for my XR it was a 2015 in 2017 with 680 miles and an account at a Honda dealership.. A 2019 right now is $6,999 at any dealership.. Not sure what is with all the bull "unicorn" and liar posts by people who haven't even listed an RPS bike to have a clue what I'm even talking about.. I can buy a $2,200 six-month old Hawk from a member of this forum right now for $800.00....

Again..... show me ANYWHERE a Hawk or Magician is going for even 50% even a day after it is assembled or fully modded mint.. I sold my XL 500 for 45% of what a 2019 XR 650L is 37 years later eight days after putting in on a local CL listing, and it was covered in scratches STOCK...

P.S. Two of the Hawks I have were bought from members of this forum for under $700.00 and they put almost everything you could buy on them.. I can easily prove they immediately depreciate way disproportionately than Japanese till the cows come home.. You'll have to censor the internet to get that horse poo to pass..

[2LZ]

I've done very well selling my China Bikes. The most I've lost, after years of riding them, has averaged about 20%. On the other hand, good, used Japanese dual sports are very hard to find here and very expensive. No unicorn, just my experience.

[DualSport]

I've done very well selling my China Bikes. The most I've lost, after years of riding them, has averaged about 20%. On the other hand, good, used Japanese dual sports are very hard to find here and very expensive. No unicorn, just my experience.

You don't even have to leave this forum to get one with at least $300.00 worth of parts and low miles for less than $800.00.. I got two of them from actual members of this forum sitting out back right now and paid less than $1,400.. They threw it toolkits and other stuff too..

"unicorn" and lying posts won't fly when you can just click over to another section and see proof.. If you go to Facebook Marketplace they are going for $400.00... I plan on bringing this up on a regular bases too especially when people want to know what they are buying.. I plan on being a major PITA to RPS, TX, and Q9 and all the bullcrappers.. I want a fully modded Hawk selling for $300.00 even in a focused market like the classified section here by August.. When Megadan eventually has to sale his I'll be there waiting..

[ChopperCharles]

I've done very well selling my China Bikes. The most I've lost, after years of riding them, has averaged about 20%. On the other hand, good, used Japanese dual sports are very hard to find here and very expensive. No unicorn, just my experience.

Either very expensive, or completely thrashed and worn out. Sometimes both.

Charles.

[Megadan]

I planned on riding my last Hawk into the Earth. Same plan with this one. Why would I "have" to sell something I already stated I knew I went into buying that would have no real return on resale? A fact I have never argued against btw.

Oh wait, I didn't type my arguments in bold so maybe you missed them. :ohno:

You do seem to love to forget that markets are different in different areas though. You seem to live in an area heavier with dual sports on the market than some of us. A deal like that XR650 here IS a bit of a unicorn. The last XR650 for sale here was a 2002 for $2800, and it needed a lot of love. (I actually went and checked it out because I wanted to buy it). That was 3 months ago.

I was never really arguing against you in the first place in any case. You do make some good points grounded in reality. Now if you could learn to make them without being rude, negative, and condescending is an entirely different subject matter.

[JerryHawk250]

I plan on bringing this up on a regular bases too especially when people want to know what they are buying.. I plan on being a major PITA to RPS, TX, and Q9 and all the bull******..
It's unfortunate you had issues with RPS, TX, and Q9 But this is not the place for this. Take up those issues with them personally.

[Wild Dog]

Again..... show me ANYWHERE a Hawk or Magician is going for even 50% even a day after it is assembled or fully modded mint.. I sold my XL 500 for 45% of what a 2019 XR 650L is 37 years later eight days after putting in on a local CL listing, and it was covered in scratches STOCK...


Who said that a Chinese bike retains resale value???
You think that people mod their chinese motorcycle (or even buy one) to be able to resell it for a profit?? :lmao::lmao::lmao:



First you said:

Or basically any low-mile with maintenance records jap dual-sport, and be able to sale it later.. My original Magician I stopped just short on investment on what I paid for my XR 650L that was two years old and garage kept at the time, and I spent a fraction on parts of what most people here have..


The MSRP of a Magician is 1400, which means you paid 1400 for an XR 650L..
But then you said.



By the way I paid $3,200 for my XR it was a 2015 in 2017 with 680 miles and an account at a Honda dealership..


1400 ≠ 3200




P.S. Two of the Hawks I have were bought from members of this forum for under $700.00

And then you wonder why you have so many issues with those bikes..

[2LZ]

"unicorn" and lying posts won't fly [/b]

DS, I certainly hope you're not inferring that I may not be telling the truth. I simply relayed to the forum my personal experience with my 10+ year history of being a China Rider. I've had good luck with them and they've been a good value for my wife and myself.
In the meantime, this thread really has gone adrift.

[Megadan]

Now, HERE is a bike I would buy over a Hawk IF I were looking to buy something right this moment. https://omaha.craigslist.org/mcy/d/louisville-2009-yamaha-250-xt/6879834969.html

Nice condition, and seemingly well cared for with fairly low miles. The problem is, this kind of posting is rare around here. That is why we call them unicorns. Nobody has ever argued that they don't exist, but that they don't exist in quantities that make them easy to pick up whenever I desire to.

In the end I ended up with something similar for about the same money. Yes, that Yamaha will always hold it's value. Heck you could probably buy it, ride it a couple of years, and sell it for about what you paid for it. while I would be lucky to get half of what I have into my Hawk back. Again, that doesn't really matter to me since I went into it planning to ride the bike into the ground. Sound financial decision? That depends on how you measure it really. If you change your bikes like you change your underwear, then no it isn't.

[Wild Dog]

Nice condition, and seemingly well cared for with fairly low miles. The problem is, this kind of posting is rare around here. That is why we call them unicorns. Nobody has ever argued that they don't exist, but that they don't exist in quantities that make them easy to pick up whenever I desire to.

The great thing about true japanese motorcycles (not those made somewhere else and stamped with the brand) is that you are going to find parts anywhere and the depreciation is not really huge... The problem is finding one that has a good price and is not beaten to death.. Even rare is to find a Japanese 650 Dual Sport from 3 years ago for the price of chinese motorcycle.....


that doesn't really matter to me since I went into it planning to ride the bike into the ground. Sound financial decision?

I think these is the same mindset of most of the people that buy chinese motorcycles. Buy it, use it till it becomes dust...
But hey in every single hobby there is the guy that cares way too much about resell value......

[dh]

.....The MSRP of a Magician is 1400, which means you paid 1400 for an XR 650L..
But then you said.


1400 ≠ 3200



DS this is how I interpreted your post as well. No offense intended, I said "Unicorn" because a 2 year old XR650 for the near the price of a new Magician is a deal I will never be lucky enough to find. Again, the demand for these bikes changes from area to area.

I agree with the idea that resale value on a chinabike doesn't need to be a huge concern because the cost to purchase/operate/maintain one is incredibly low. For similar reasons, I doubt many people are worried about resale value when they go out and buy a new Mitsubishi Mirage or Chevy Spark.

[Merlin]

2500 invested in modding or with the price of the bike included?

I have one of the most modified Hawks on here and I haven't even broken $1000 in mods. Not even close to it.

Maybe if I upgraded to some better rims I would reach that point, but as it sits? Maybe $2000 including the cost of the bike. Would I get more than a grand for it if I try to sell it, probably not, but I also don't plan on selling it.

Even going to town and doing full bolt on upgrades would be hard pressed to spend more than about $600. Obviously that will change depending on the parts purchased - you can buy 3 ebay exhausts for one FMF system for example.

Anybody with some basic common sense should know that these bikes have little to no resale value second hand. I went into buying one absolutely knowing this to be true.

My china bike has alloy rims and lots of other upgrades and I have not hit the $2000 mark not even close.

[Megadan]

My china bike has alloy rims and lots of other upgrades and I have not hit the $2000 mark not even close.

That's pretty awesome. I honestly haven't added everything up on the bike, but I am probably right at 2k in large part due to the rear shock and YSS Fork valves, which together added up to about $230. They were worth every single penny though, I have to say. Alloy rims are a definite upgrade for me in the future. I am just holding out to find a good deal on a used set if I can.

[OneLeggedRider]

Murky waters here, but I'm glad to see folks are so passionate about their hobby lol. Me personally I'm biding my time till I find a DRZ 400 at a decent price, but I'm happy with the Hawk till then. ��

[Merlin]

That's pretty awesome. I honestly haven't added everything up on the bike, but I am probably right at 2k in large part due to the rear shock and YSS Fork valves, which together added up to about $230. They were worth every single penny though, I have to say. Alloy rims are a definite upgrade for me in the future. I am just holding out to find a good deal on a used set if I can.

I ended up buying new front and rear complete wheel sets with alloy rims and heavy gauge spokes. My stock wheels where pulling spokes because Bashan thought it would be a good way to save a few pennies by using thin spokes. I bought the wheels from TaoBao for about what a top end set of spokes here in the US would cost.

[Megadan]

I ended up buying new front and rear complete wheel sets with alloy rims and heavy gauge spokes. My stock wheels where pulling spokes because Bashan thought it would be a good way to save a few pennies by using thin spokes. I bought the wheels from TaoBao for about what a top end set of spokes here in the US would cost.

I was looking at something similar on Taobao for a bike that uses the same hubs as mine. I think they were about 97 for the pair plus whatever freight would cost.