Zongshen RX3 : Unexpected Dead Engine in a deep forest tour

[vickytulla]

Hola; fella riders, I hope you guys are doing great,

I jut finished up reading few threads by spud for trouble shooting RX3 as I just came back from a exhaustive long tour, nevertheless it went excellent but I had to manage a serious problem which occurred in My RX3 along whole tour in order to complete it and come back home on it...

BACKGROUND # The bike creates a "bzzzzzzz" sound when you "ON" the engine cutoff on right side handle grip... for a while when the needles are moving on speedo meter as well.. and then bike EFI red Icon shows up in order to indicate that bike is ready to fire up the engine.. MY bike does the same every time I urn on that button before starting it as well..

PROBLEM# BUT on 3rd day of tour on a fine morning I turned on same button and noticed that sound did not occurred I ignored and continued to load the camp and sleeping bang and fill up the trunk.. finally I hope on to seet and pressed self start butting.. bike did cranked like trying to start up but nothing happened..

I switched on/off the ignition button again but no sound came again... I asked for push start to fellow rider we pushed it but no success..

then I hopped off checked all electric jacks and wires to fine any losing but every thing was firm and fine, i tried ignition switch on/off several times again.. no success..

then we removed the seat got access to EFI component and checked its jacks they were firm as well.. then we tried more on/Off

then I tried 3 cycles on/Off to get any DTC code but no code appeared... indicating EFI is fine.. after half an hour we were sitting and trying to release that the Chinese bike is dead... the bike out of no where created that "BZZZZ" of fuel pump... (no one was fiddling with the bike and bike was assembled and tried to fire up... with no success) the only thing was that bike was switch on and left after hope less attempts...

after we noticed the BZZZZ I went and pushed the start button and it started..

for next 3 days I faced the same behavior ... it will die here ever it likes... now I am home but I have no idea what is wrong with it..

I do plan to dissemble its whole tank and all wires and clean all jacks and wire it up again , check fuel filter, as no error codes are shown till now... so I am pretty sure some things lose in wiring... lets see how much success I get after this exercise..

My question to fellows here is that did this happened to any one else... ?

If feul pump do not BUZZZZ 'z'z'zzzz on start up check what does that indicates ?

[Sullybiker]

Check your ground wire?

[willy dog]

my zong would crank but not fire with dirty battery cable also check purple connector under seat

[Biker_Andy]

I'd check to see if power is present at the fuel pump when it won't start. Bad connectons can cause strange failures but a connection doesn't usually fix itself while knowone is touching it. I suspect the fuel pump was trying to turn but for whatever reason had difficulty and then overcame this resistance eventually making the buzzing. No fault codes will appear from a bad fuel pump either.

[Adjuster]

Yep simple check for power at the pump. Got power but pump not running equals bad pump. No power at the pump start tracing the wiring backwards from the pump until you find the problem.



/

[vickytulla]

I am trying to recreate the problem as it happneed in forest, right now while standing in workshop it "BXZZZZ" every time the mechnic on/off the ignition button...

even though we today cleaned all jacks of wires with WD40 and tried to trace any lose wire but every wire and jack was firm and tight already and each time we on/off ignotin it will buzz... so we assembled it back and just about to leave shop i turned it on and there was not more BzzzZZZ .... :hmm: >:(

but then after few self start atttempts it did started but not able to ide unless i keep a little throtle pushed... I was already late to work so i came back..

so the problem persists... :ohno:

[vickytulla]

yes we need to do it this way... but we need to first able to recreate it every time to trouble shoot it ...

Yep simple check for power at the pump. Got power but pump not running equals bad pump. No power at the pump start tracing the wiring backwards from the pump until you find the problem.



/

[Sullybiker]

Can you run a meter across the fuel pump electrical connections?

[rjmorel]

Could the ignition switch be bad and not connecting all the circuits repeatedly?
rj

[Biker_Andy]

Could the ignition switch be bad and not connecting all the circuits repeatedly?
rj

No if the ignition switch was bad nothing would work. The ignition will be a single + wire running multiple places.

Check for power at the pump if possible, the RX3 uses a fuel pump relay as seen in picture.

[pete]

As said... I would look at the fuel pump relay first...

the buzz when you turn it on is the fuel pump priming the injector/ bringing it
up to pressure so it is ready to go when it is triggered
once you hit the start button..
(well is on a yamaha.. most bikes work the same way)



.

[vickytulla]

I am just sad my bike now do not start any more and self starts just died the batter too... :( its summer and every body is out there..

i have dismantled the whole tank i noticed while draining fuel there was water contamination as well about a hole glass of water blackish and slimeeeee..

i serviced the fuel pump now i am trying to find professional help.. no idea..

this is 3rd world country almost no efi bikes or technician here..

I have to talk to some car mechanic and make him agree to look into this.. i order odb scanner on aliexpreess i dont know if it will help..

i am getting night mares these days... no sleep..

Could the ignition switch be bad and not connecting all the circuits repeatedly?
rj

Can you run a meter across the fuel pump electrical connections?

[vickytulla]

on ignition ON the relay does "tick" sound which emans it does engage on switching on.. but no sound on pump.. i think i should take the pump to some EFI car echnics and ask them to chk if the pump has some signs of life in it or not they might now at least some thing..

or should i first just change they relay first and test.. i think i should try changin relay first to see..

No if the ignition switch was bad nothing would work. The ignition will be a single + wire running multiple places.

Check for power at the pump if possible, the RX3 uses a fuel pump relay as seen in picture.

[vickytulla]

ok... I am going to change the relay first now for sure... will post again after checking..


As said... I would look at the fuel pump relay first...

the buzz when you turn it on is the fuel pump priming the injector/ bringing it
up to pressure so it is ready to go when it is triggered
once you hit the start button..
(well is on a yamaha.. most bikes work the same way)



.

[Jay In Milpitas]

i have dismantled the whole tank i noticed while draining fuel there was water contamination as well about a hole glass of water blackish and slimeeeee..

i serviced the fuel pump now i am trying to find professional help.. no idea..

this is 3rd world country almost no efi bikes or technician here..

I have to talk to some car mechanic and make him agree to look into this.. i order odb scanner on aliexpreess i dont know if it will help..

i am getting night mares these days... no sleep..

To begin, You are now the RX3 technician in Pakistan. Hold head up high and start, one step at a time.

The water and slime in the tank, very bad for the pump and the injector if it goes past the filter. It is possible that it made the pump stick or even killed the pump. First test only the pump with wires going to a charged battery.
Pump runs? Pump is good.

Next, electricity getting to the pump from the connector? Use meter or test light. Electricity is good? Problem is not there.

One thought. You said in the shop the pump worked many times, then moved out of shop, pump stopped. Were the handlebars moved in the shop when testing? You said you moved your handlebars higher. It is possible that the wires to the engine Stop switch got damaged or pulled. First look close at the wires before you use a meter to test.

You can use a car battery for testing if you use thin wires for connection, but be very careful and be ready to disconnect quickly.

Good luck.

[vickytulla]

thanks man, yes I am on it.. spent a weekend trouble shooting, one of a car EFI technician helped out a lot, I also met a Honda/Yamaha Super bikes service center who do service for sports bikes they were least bothered to help out ..

any ways this car mechanic new and I gave suggestions which i read here by all you people.. and he totally agreed...

1 - [DONE] we replaced the relay any ways just to remove any doubts... (right now both relays do the "tick" "Click" on doing switch on/off ignition..

2 - then we dipped fuel pump into a bowl of petrol and wired it with battery it did not ran nor it made any BZZZ sound.. he shaked it blow air into its passages... then he said it seems like this thing is tucked.. I said how hw said it tries to move but then stop..

He had a carb cleaner he dissected the actuall motor out of the feul pump assemble and blew carb cleaner in it.. the again checked this time it produced "click" sound but did not moved or bzzzzzed...

then he again banged it against hand just like he was trying to get it moving some how.. this time when he dipped it in fuel and tested it spewed out fuel and started to rattle and bz..zzzzz....

on several further tests it was noticed that some times it will get stucked again and some times it will work.. when it gets stcuked if banged or shaked it will start working..

so final diagnoses is that feul pump has gone bad... any one nows if this pump is changeable/swap able from some other bike or car ? or do I have to get exactly the same ?

any guidance will be really really appreciated...





To begin, You are now the RX3 technician in Pakistan. Hold head up high and start, one step at a time.
Good luck.

[vickytulla]

If you notice here the voltmeter shows 11.96volts for roughly 3 seconds when ignition is on/off where as If I direct check battery then battery shows 12.90volts.. can that be an issue ?

[vickytulla]

Pump arrived, feul is now pumped very time . there is spark in plug... but Bike wont start :ohno:

help me guys... the Batter I recharged and attached again.. the self rotates bit slower then it used to be before... but still rotates.. also I removed plug and checked if spark si comming spark is also coomming then I removed air filter so I can removed doubts that if air is not fed properly.. but nothing helped untill the batter drained again due to lots of self starts...

now I am clueless what should I do..

[rjmorel]

Charge up the battery fully before trying to start. I think a low battery is the problem now. Your "kill" switch isn't on is it? rj

[vickytulla]

thank you @rjmorel for guiding... Yes I did charged the batter two times and then got it all drained while trying to start it..

the kill witch if on "off" self do not work.. it only works when kill switch is "on" and there is a buzz from fuel pump...

today going to auto market for buying new battery, another thing which is found out is that on tour I crossed some really deep streams... and last day the mechanic who is assisting me opened a small opening at the bottom of filter it drained like good 200ml of mudd water.. this put him on high doubt and then he opened the filter completely cleaned it blow it dry... cleaned the area of throttle body was was accessible with cotton cloth in hand but it was already very late night and we drained the battery already so we called it a day...



Charge up the battery fully before trying to start. I think a low battery is the problem now. Your "kill" switch isn't on is it? rj

[artur94]

-Replace / check fuel filter if is not block
- check the full injector if is not block
- Test the pressure in the cylinder
- check exhous if is not blocked

[pete]

Disconnect the pump from the injector...
there should fuel coming out the hose when
you turn the key on then it should stop after a second or so
then push the start button while the motor is cranking over
again fuel shoud come out of the hose to the injector...

if this all works as intended... remove the injector reconnect it
to the hose and crank the motor over on the start button there
should be a mist of fuel comeing out of the injector.. (hold a peice of paper in front of it see if it gets wet)
Make sure the power wires are pluged into the injector while doing this test
the injector also may need to be earthed to the motor...

If all this works fine & there is spark at the plug the next place to look
would be the crank shaft postion sencer... it is what tells the injector
when to fire a shot of fuel.. if it is not right it could be sending the shot of
fuel at the wrong time...

[vickytulla]

-Replace / check fuel filter if is not block
- check the full injector if is not block
- Test the pressure in the cylinder
- check exhous if is not blocked

1 - Feul Filter is letting the feul pass and it was clean
2 - How can I check injector by removing it and seeing it if it sprays ?
3 - Pressure was fine I checked it as a the first thing
4 - exhust is not choked as well its fine..

I just got exhusted that day .. will debug further on comming weekend.. Damn thins EFI thing is complicated, I never worked that long to fire up a carby bike... :cry:

[vickytulla]

@pete alrght I will do exactly the same... but I do no where the RX3 crank shaft poistion sensor is...


Disconnect the pump from the injector...
there should fuel coming out the hose when
you turn the key on then it should stop after a second or so
then push the start button while the motor is cranking over
again fuel shoud come out of the hose to the injector...

if this all works as intended... remove the injector reconnect it
to the hose and crank the motor over on the start button there
should be a mist of fuel comeing out of the injector.. (hold a peice of paper in front of it see if it gets wet)
Make sure the power wires are pluged into the injector while doing this test
the injector also may need to be earthed to the motor...

If all this works fine & there is spark at the plug the next place to look
would be the crank shaft postion sencer... it is what tells the injector
when to fire a shot of fuel.. if it is not right it could be sending the shot of
fuel at the wrong time...

[vickytulla]

battery arrived today as that day battery of fitable size wasnt available this is 12AMP battery I hope it can rotate the ignition motor..
putting it on intial charging

[pete]

Is that a starting battrey ?
looks like a deep cycle....



.

[RockyDS]

Is that a starting battrey ?
looks like a deep cycle....



.

Info online ...



Technology AGM
Brand LONG
Model LONG AGM
Ref # WP12-12

[vickytulla]

Info online ...

Is that a starting battrey ?
looks like a deep cycle....
.


is deep cycle a good thing or a bad thing ? the shop owner said its the best selling he had.. its made in vietnam I guess..


tmorrow I will go back to the work shop to try starting it ... I hope I get sucess...

[pete]

is deep cycle a good thing or a bad thing ? the shop owner said its the best selling he had.. its made in vietnam I guess..


tmorrow I will go back to the work shop to try starting it ... I hope I get sucess...

A deep cycle is for running lights , wheel chairs , golf carts ,
back up power for alams etc ...They can deliver there rated out put
for a long time.. but not surply enough amps in one hit to turn a starter motor..

A starting battrey has to be able to deliver a lot of amps in one hit..
the CCA rateing "CCA = Continus Cranking Amps"
a 12AH starting battery could deliver 120amps for a very short time. (120CCA)

[vickytulla]

ok this is a really help ful info sems like I got a very good battery I hope it fires up the bike like charm...

its specs says it will deliver 180AMP for 5 seconds .. :clap:



A deep cycle is for running lights , wheel chairs , golf carts ,
back up power for alams etc ...They can deliver there rated out put
for a long time.. but not surply enough amps in one hit to turn a starter motor..

A starting battrey has to be able to deliver a lot of amps in one hit..
the CCA rateing "CCA = Continus Cranking Amps"
a 12AH starting battery could deliver 120amps for a very short time. (120CCA)

[artur94]

Check engine codes ther explained in this forum somwer how to do this.
Swich ON ignition and kill swich ON wait 1 minute and cunt the blinks of the red engine synbol on the dash.

Ther should be time gaps between blinks for example my worst one and is coming back to me is folt :

P0505

Idle Control System

Idle Speed Control Error

Wich is blinking only numbers for example 0 is 10 blinks 5 is 5 blinks 3 is 3 blinks

P0505 = xxxxxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxx

If ther is other foult the time gap is bet longer.

Have a pen and paper ready.

I am sending you the link wher all the folts explained
Good luck

http://www.cscmotorcycles.com/Articles.asp?ID=317

[vickytulla]

Yes I followed this article arthur... but bike reported no issue which was weird...

BUT I HAVE A GOOD NEWS!!! :yay:

Check engine codes ther explained in this forum somwer how to do this.
Swich ON ignition and kill swich ON wait 1 minute and cunt the blinks of the red engine synbol on the dash.

Ther should be time gaps between blinks for example my worst one and is coming back to me is folt :

P0505

Idle Control System

Idle Speed Control Error

Wich is blinking only numbers for example 0 is 10 blinks 5 is 5 blinks 3 is 3 blinks

P0505 = xxxxxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxx

If ther is other foult the time gap is bet longer.

Have a pen and paper ready.

I am sending you the link wher all the folts explained
Good luck

http://www.cscmotorcycles.com/Articles.asp?ID=317

[vickytulla]

@pete @artur94 @rjmorel @Jay In Milpitas @Biker_Andy @Sullybiker @Adjuster @willy dog

Thank you guys.... I used to read out all your messages and translate em to technician and then we both would get our heads down under the tank and trouble shoot...

Finally we successfully fired it up.. and now she is healthy and fine ready to roll!

so final Diagnosis was that not only Fuel Pump went bad (due to reason still no sure .. all we found was a slimy liquid blackish liquid inside tank and in fuel lines and pump... it was the same slime which clogged the injector as well... so probably criminal is slime so far..

break through happened when I followed @pete advice that we should plug out the injector and self start to crank up and see if mist comes out of injector while it is earthed with chasis even though I think it had two wires already.. there was now mist no spray..

so we took it to motorcar electrician he said he will get it fixed for us in few minutes he used injector cleaner spray (the spray can has a title throttle body cleaner though) he had and then blew dry it then checked it with some voltmeter and asked me to go try it as according to him its cracking and would work now for sure...

it was hard to get it out and even harder for them mechanic who was doing it all i was his wing man . sort of.. lol so tested it before assembling this time it sprayed like a a deodorant can.. and on first self bike started with huge blow of black..

http://dreamscape317.net/forum/uploads/monthly_2017_05/53202894.jpg.894d71dbf9fa8e9c60d8dcb54a11a8bb.jpg

[Jay In Milpitas]

Very good!!!!!! :clap:

It is a mystery where the slime came from and how it got in the tank. These problems are not common and why it is best to always stay with engine basics.

1. Compression.
2. Air (clean and a lot).
3. Fuel (also clean and a lot).
4. Spark.

Wishing you many kilometers of smiles.

[BlackBike]

That's a relief :yay:

Happy motoring

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/84/55/cf/8455cfc049e3b6d01169307ab70094d3--funny-advertising-vintage-ads.jpg

[rjmorel]

Wondering if the black sludge came from one of the places you bought gas from. Grudge from bottom of their tanks? rj

[vickytulla]

Very good!!!!!! :clap:

It is a mystery where the slime came from and how it got in the tank. These problems are not common and why it is best to always stay with engine basics.

1. Compression.
2. Air (clean and a lot).
3. Fuel (also clean and a lot).
4. Spark.

Wishing you many kilometers of smiles.

Wondering if the black sludge came from one of the places you bought gas from. Grudge from bottom of their tanks? rj

thanks guys...


yes thats what my team mates think as well as the "Very" last refuling station was a remote town where the petrol was only available in large barrels with hand pump and the price was 20% higher then normal ..

the hand pump hose is dipped deep down in the barrel.. and it rained heavily a day back.. in the evening before leaving i topped up from there as I new next two days there would be no feul...

and I started noticing "no bzzzz" the very next morning...


By the way I am keeping still a close eye on fuel pump "cutout"/"relay" which is under the pillion seat... I noticed it gets warm (kind of hot) in minute of a more... does not progress to complete melt down or over heat but it stays "quite" hot.... is that usual ?

Any one ever noticed that ? I still have few weeks of summer thinking to go south... but I want to make sure to come back on two wheels :lol: thats why asking... if its some thing to worry about or not..

I am talking about this thing =

[vickytulla]

went for first ever ride after the new fixes... the tour went flawless... I am glad its back...

[vickytulla]

I m not lone rx3 rider any more...

6 RX3 recently landed and joined me this weekend... :clap::clap:

[Jay In Milpitas]

So now with 6 new bikes you are Prime RX3 rider.

[fjmartin]

So glad to hear the bike is back on the road and trails and running great. Must be fun with a "pack" to ride with! Enjoy the rest of your riding season!

[vickytulla]

So glad to hear the bike is back on the road and trails and running great. Must be fun with a "pack" to ride with! Enjoy the rest of your riding season!

Yes... it was fun :tup: and now we are good number of bikes we can share exeperience with ach other and resolve problems altogther as well..


So now with 6 new bikes you are Prime RX3 rider.

ha ha ha ha Yes it was quite a fun and I was the guy telling them all the good and bad things the might have to be ready with... :D

[BlackBike]

Vickytulla...you are the pack leader :hehe:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTnOG0MWUOTWnQtdfg0_BomezDbDlilb tDHnoz1KMGWy7MVMwP0

Good times!

[Jay In Milpitas]

Change your signature! You are not Lone Rider, you are Prime Rider.

[vickytulla]

:D Changed!

Change your signature! You are not Lone Rider, you are Prime Rider.

oh yeah .... :)
Vickytulla...you are the pack leader :hehe:

Good times!