HAWK Wont Start at All Now..

[NickThrash]

Okay guys part of my last post:
http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?p=268994#post268994

i was having issues with the battery or starter BUT could still kick start my HAWK

yesterday i had started it and rode for a few minutes.

TODAY i was about to make a trip to the auto store and since my truck is in the shop i was going to take the HAWK and before i was going to go i disconnected the battery, the solenoid, and the ground and gave them a bit of a brushing to see if the starter will go.. and it didnt.

SO then i was going to just kick start it and be on my way, NOW I CANT get the bike to start at all. I know the kick start can be rough on the hawk but I cant even get a little bit of pop... I went through 10 times and checked if everything was connected and even looked up photos of the hawk to see if i swapped anything by accident and i cant find ANYTHING.

Did i disconnect a fail safe or something that wont let the bike start? because ive never had THIS much trouble with the kick start :ohno::ohno::ohno::ohno:

I am getting no response from my bike. the lights go on and everything has power. (Besides the starter) I just cant get the motor going...

[JerryHawk250]

Have tried jumping the selonoid?

[NickThrash]

Have tried jumping the selonoid?


i hooked the battery to a car but still got nothing. would I have to directly hook the cables to the solenoid?

[BlackBike]

I bet you popped the fuse when you were cleaning the terminals

[NickThrash]

I bet you popped the fuse when you were cleaning the terminals


Is that the fuse that is connected to the solenoid? because i saw that and checked the fuse and it looked okay but i also changed it out with a new one and got no different of results.. Unless there is another fuse somewhere idk about?

[pete]

has it still got spark...



.

[NickThrash]

has it still got spark...



.

I haven't checked with the starter but i did check the compression (I took the spark plug out and covered the hole with my thumb)

I understand that my starter or the electrical stuff to is messed up. but i dont understand why i cant even get the bike kick started at all

[Ariel Red Hunter]

I haven't checked with the starter but i did check the compression (I took the spark plug out and covered the hole with my thumb)

I understand that my starter or the electrical stuff to is messed up. but i dont understand why i cant even get the bike kick started at allI think you are going to have to do what Pete suggested. Lay the spark plug against the cylinder head, with the wire attached, and kick it over with the key on, the red switch in the run position and the kickstand up. If you have to, lean it against the garage wall. It is easier to do this at night with the lights off, then it is very obvious if it is sparking or not....ARH

[NickThrash]

I think you are going to have to do what Pete suggested. Lay the spark plug against the cylinder head, with the wire attached, and kick it over with the key on, the red switch in the run position and the kickstand up. If you have to, lean it against the garage wall. It is easier to do this at night with the lights off, then it is very obvious if it is sparking or not....ARH


The plug will still spark with the kick start? i didnt know that, i thought that trick only worked with the electric start.

Ill give that a shot though and see if I have spark it might be tricky and the bike, and myself, might end up on the floor :lmao: but its worth a shot.

I ordered a new solenoid online to try and will try to find some new wires to connect everything. hopefully its not my starter being busted

If I'm not getting spark what would I do about that? does that mean the plug wire is bad or disconnected?

[Ariel Red Hunter]

The plug will still spark with the kick start? i didnt know that, i thought that trick only worked with the electric start.

Ill give that a shot though and see if I have spark it might be tricky and the bike, and myself, might end up on the floor :lmao: but its worth a shot.

I ordered a new solenoid online to try and will try to find some new wires to connect everything. hopefully its not my starter being busted

If I'm not getting spark what would I do about that? does that mean the plug wire is bad or disconnected?You've got it backwards. Without spark it will never start, whether you crank it, kick it, run and bump it, or tow it down the road. It has magneto ignition. Totally seperate from any and all electrical issues. You have what is politely called an alternator. What you really have is a magneto plus what used to be called "lighting coils", plus a rectifier that converts the ac output of the lighting coils to dc to charge the battery, and run the starter motor. There have been reported instances, in the past, of shorted wires coming out of the "alternator". Shorted on the cases, where the wires come out by the shift lever :cry:. But you won't know any of this until YOU PROVE THAT YOU HAVE NO SPARK. :p This type of magneto is called a low tension magneto. From there it goes to a CDI (Condenser Discharge Ignition) and to a coil. Then to the plug. Thus there are two wholly separate systems. Ignition and electrical. It is NOT like what is used in your car. ...ARH

[NickThrash]

You've got it backwards. Without spark it will never start, whether you crank it, kick it, run and bump it, or tow it down the road. It has magneto ignition. Totally seperate from any and all electrical issues. You have what is politely called an alternator. What you really have is a magneto plus what used to be called "lighting coils", plus a rectifier that converts the ac output of the lighting coils to dc to charge the battery, and run the starter motor. There have been reported instances, in the past, of shorted wires coming out of the "alternator". Shorted on the cases, where the wires come out by the shift lever :cry:. But you won't know any of this until YOU PROVE THAT YOU HAVE NO SPARK. :p This type of magneto is called a low tension magneto. From there it goes to a CDI (Condenser Discharge Ignition) and to a coil. Then to the plug. Thus there are two wholly separate systems. Ignition and electrical. It is NOT like what is used in your car. ...ARH

ohh very informative!

So then its potentially an issue with the magneto? do you know what kind of job it is replacing one of those? i came across a video on youtube of someone changing theirs on their hawk but that was when i first got the bike a while ago and all i got from the video was "I hope i dont have to do that" lol

[NickThrash]

You've got it backwards. Without spark it will never start, whether you crank it, kick it, run and bump it, or tow it down the road. It has magneto ignition. Totally seperate from any and all electrical issues. You have what is politely called an alternator. What you really have is a magneto plus what used to be called "lighting coils", plus a rectifier that converts the ac output of the lighting coils to dc to charge the battery, and run the starter motor. There have been reported instances, in the past, of shorted wires coming out of the "alternator". Shorted on the cases, where the wires come out by the shift lever :cry:. But you won't know any of this until YOU PROVE THAT YOU HAVE NO SPARK. :p This type of magneto is called a low tension magneto. From there it goes to a CDI (Condenser Discharge Ignition) and to a coil. Then to the plug. Thus there are two wholly separate systems. Ignition and electrical. It is NOT like what is used in your car. ...ARH


Okay so i checked if i had spark.. no spark... BUT I do get spark with the kill switch disconnected?

UPDATE: I got the bike started but i have to have the kill switch disconnected
What does that mean? is my kill switch is bad or is it a ground that is bad??

[bogieboy]

that leaves you with a short in the kill switch wiring, and possibly the root cause of all your issues, if your bike is like mine, the starter button is in the same control as the kill switch. if the switches or wiring are shorted out, that would be your issue...

[bogieboy]

i should clarify, that leaves you with a short somewhere in the control housing for the kill switch, you can assume the wiring is fine, since the kill switch shorts the primary side of your coil to ground, path of least resistance....bla bla.... so that the secondary doesnt fire your spark plug. i would disassemble the kill switch housing and look for anything obvious, and then check the wiring from the plug to the housing for any damage...

[NickThrash]

i should clarify, that leaves you with a short somewhere in the control housing for the kill switch, you can assume the wiring is fine, since the kill switch shorts the primary side of your coil to ground, path of least resistance....bla bla.... so that the secondary doesnt fire your spark plug. i would disassemble the kill switch housing and look for anything obvious, and then check the wiring from the plug to the housing for any damage...

Okay, a bad kill switch sounds a lot better than a bad magneto. The weird thing is that when i did the spark test i got no spark. So i tried the kill switch trick and GOT spark. Then i decided to plug the kill switch back in and see if i get no spark again. BUT when i hooked it back up I still got spark and I can still get the bike started with it connected. :hmm:

Idk what happened but disconnecting and reconnecting the kill switch gave me spark again. :crazy:

My starter is still not going and the solenoid is still just clicking. BUT i just got a new solenoid in the mail today and hopefully that helps. Im just glad that i have the bike running again

:thanks:
Thanks for everyone's input and help. It's really appreciated!

Still have to figure out this damn electric start problem. :shrug:

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Okay so i checked if i had spark.. no spark... BUT I do get spark with the kill switch disconnected?

UPDATE: I got the bike started but i have to have the kill switch disconnected
What does that mean? is my kill switch is bad or is it a ground that is bad??I would suspect the kill switch, or a wire shorting to ground in the switch. In order to stop the engine, you have to ground out the magneto some where from the mag on up. Thing about it is in my day there was one mag ground wire that went to a switch like a horn button on the handlebars to ground it out. But now they've been using a bunch of ground out switches, any one of which can cause the problem. You're lucky you found it so quick. Congrats!!!...ARH

[NickThrash]

I would suspect the kill switch, or a wire shorting to ground in the switch. In order to stop the engine, you have to ground out the magneto some where from the mag on up. Thing about it is in my day there was one mag ground wire that went to a switch like a horn button on the handlebars to ground it out. But now they've been using a bunch of ground out switches, any one of which can cause the problem. You're lucky you found it so quick. Congrats!!!...ARH


Ya i was sitting in a chair in my garage looking at my bike wondering what the hell i was going to do. and I happened to be checking some videos on youtube on how/what people do when they check for spark and someone mentioned disconnecting the kill switch then testing for spark and i gave it a shot and luckily it worked!

And thanks for all your help and info!
:thanks: