Why Would A Manufacturer Put A Carb On Their Bike Like The Hawk's Carb?

[Cheapo_ChiRi]

OK, I am just super curious about something regarding the Hawk 250's carburetor that I just cannot help but ask because it is totally mind-boggling!

Why... for the love of all that is good... would the Hawk designers (or anyone bike manufacturer for that matter) choose a carb for their bikes which do not allow the buyer to remove the float bowl to replace the stock jetting?? Unless the bike was meant to be sold in one small specific area of the world, wouldnt the manufacturer be aware that jetting varies in different areas requiring access to carb jets??

It is well known to almost everyone here on the forums that the Hawk 250 carb comes jetted dangerously LEAN from the factory. So we owners must change the jetting to prevent catastrophic engine damage. But the carbs on these bikes are meant to PREVENT us from changing the jetting unless we get creative (and brave for newbies) and grind slots in to the carb with a power tool! Yes its not very difficult for the mechanically incline, but its the principle! PLUS many newbies without power-tool/grinding expertise or mechanical abilities will buy these bikes!

Why did the Hawk 250 manufacture choose to put carbs on these bikes which prevent us from fixing a dangerously lean state of tune? This is like selling a bike with a stick of dynamite in the engine which is certainly set to go off in the near future.

Why?? Can anyone help me understand why Haosen would choose these carbs for their Hawk 250? :hmm::hmm:

Thanks.

[JerryHawk250]

It's not just the HAWK but all manufacturer. One word. EPA

[Megadan]

Yep, its for EPA compliance/regulations more than anything else. You can still uncrew the bowl, but you have to slot them to use a flat head.

[culcune]

The manufacturers and importers are cheap bassards, so they will specify the lowest cost per unit carb; ironically, RPS is an actual subsidiary of Hensim/Hoasen(sp?) who make the Hawk, so I imagine they could have spent the extra couple dollars to put a better carb on the beast?! Ironically, the Hawk is still NOT highway certified and is still considered an 'off-road dirt bike' according to the EPA.

[BlackBike]

https://media.giphy.com/media/x88e1awUi05by/giphy.gif

Just like they sealed up weed eater and power blowers carbs back in the 90's, to set the emissions at permanent levels and not allowing it to be tampered with.

[Megadan]

The manufacturers and importers are cheap bassards, so they will specify the lowest cost per unit carb; ironically, RPS is an actual subsidiary of Hensim/Hoasen(sp?) who make the Hawk, so I imagine they could have spent the extra couple dollars to put a better carb on the beast?! Ironically, the Hawk is still NOT highway certified and is still considered an 'off-road dirt bike' according to the EPA.

Yep, but in many states that epa legality for off road is all it takes to allow on road registration. One advantage of living in a flyover state.

[HILL]

Speaking of the stock Hawk carb, where is the "throttle speed screw" mentioned in the little owner manual?
I have one odd screw right side of carb that seems not to do anything screwed in or out so it can't be the "throttle speed screw", right?

[Megadan]

Speaking of the stock Hawk carb, where is the "throttle speed screw" mentioned in the little owner manual?
I have one odd screw right side of carb that seems not to do anything screwed in or out so it can't be the "throttle speed screw", right?

Idle speed adjustment screw is the knob looking screw on the right side. If it isnt doing anything then it may be too far out and needs to be turned in a bit more so the little finger on the end of the screw contacts the throttle barrel slide.

[HILL]

Idle speed adjustment screw is the knob looking screw on the right side. If it isnt doing anything then it may be too far out and needs to be turned in a bit more so the little finger on the end of the screw contacts the throttle barrel slide.

Yep! Who'da thunk that the screw was barely installed? It took six turns before starting to raise idle. I'd been afraid of turning it so much as I figured it to be a needle valve type adjustment.
Thanks much Dan!

[Megadan]

Yep! Who'da thunk that the screw was barely installed? It took six turns before starting to raise idle. I'd been afraid of turning it so much as I figured it to be a needle valve type adjustment.
Thanks much Dan!

Not a problem. I noticed mine wasn't screwed in all the way when I removed it to install the Minkuni while first assembling my bike. Glad to help.:tup:

[Cheapo_ChiRi]

Thanks guys for your replies! The Hawk 250 is a great value and so I can understand, and live with some imperfections but I was just super curious about knowing the answer on this topic.

Moving forward, I bought a Mikuni VM26 carb which was a super CHEAP fix and will solve the issue but I am a curious person and just had to ask about this.

You guys are the best, thanks!

[RogerWFarrier]

I have to say that the Keima carb that comes on the TT is actually a pretty decent carb. It uses standard Kehin jets and has given me no issues at all.

[Megadan]

I have to say that the Keima carb that comes on the TT is actually a pretty decent carb. It uses standard Kehin jets and has given me no issues at all.

The part I don't get is... That Keima carb probably cost only a few more bucks than the Shengway the Hawk's come with. I would have paid $5 more for a better stock carburetor. Even the Bashan bikes come with a better carburetor.

[RogerWFarrier]

The part I don't get is... That Keima carb probably cost only a few more bucks than the Shengway the Hawk's come with. I would have paid $5 more for a better stock carburetor. Even the Bashan bikes come with a better carburetor.
I can only attribute it to this is what happens when you let accountants make the business decisions instead of the engineers.....lol.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

I can only attribute it to this is what happens when you let accountants make the business decisions instead of the engineers.....lol.The Sheng wey carb was specified for two very good reasons. (1) More difficult to modify from EPA compliant status, and (2) less cost at manufacturers level. Number 2 I did not really understand until 2 friends of mine, who worked at GM (in Detroit) engineering tech, came off work seeking solace in the hands of Bacchus. They were frothing at the mouth over a decision by upper management at GM to use four rear tail lights on the new Corvair instead of Indium-Bronze main and rod bearings. For the same cost with Indium-Bronze bearings they could only afford two tail lights. Now that is the way the real world of engineering actually works....ARH

[pistolclass]

Think of it as a good place holder for a decent $30 Fakuni. It is just like Glocks, great gun, the sights are more like placeholders for real sights.

[BlackBike]

The Sheng wey carb was specified for two very good reasons. (1) More difficult to modify from EPA compliant status, and (2) less cost at manufacturers level. Number 2 I did not really understand until 2 friends of mine, who worked at GM (in Detroit) engineering tech, came off work seeking solace in the hands of Bacchus. They were frothing at the mouth over a decision by upper management at GM to use four rear tail lights on the new Corvair instead of Indium-Bronze main and rod bearings. For the same cost with Indium-Bronze bearings they could only afford two tail lights. Now that is the way the real world of engineering actually works....ARH

Interesting...cause if it doesnt sell, nothing else matters

This was my dad's first new car when he returned from the oil patch in Sumatra.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Interesting...cause if it doesnt sell, nothing else matters

This was my dad's first new car when he returned from the oil patch in Sumatra.By the time I was talking about, the Corvair already had a niche market. The two big dogs in that segment of the market were the Studebaker Lark and the Ford Falcon, neither of which could compete with the Corvair as a semi sports car. As time went on, the Corvair became sportier and sportier, and did very well. Until Ralph Nader came along....ARH

[pistolclass]

Nader.... Another CT embarrassment.:tdown:

[timcosby]

The Sheng wey carb was specified for two very good reasons. (1) More difficult to modify from EPA compliant status, and (2) less cost at manufacturers level. Number 2 I did not really understand until 2 friends of mine, who worked at GM (in Detroit) engineering tech, came off work seeking solace in the hands of Bacchus. They were frothing at the mouth over a decision by upper management at GM to use four rear tail lights on the new Corvair instead of Indium-Bronze main and rod bearings. For the same cost with Indium-Bronze bearings they could only afford two tail lights. Now that is the way the real world of engineering actually works....ARH

i had heard the the big auto makers deliberate over 10 cents difference in parts cost. all those dimes add up over millions of cars.

[RogerWFarrier]

i had heard the the big auto makers deliberate over 10 cents difference in parts cost. all those dimes add up over millions of cars.
I saw a documentary about Wal-Mart and there was a guy that worked for a major company that was a vendor of theirs and he said that he had seen Wal-Mart purchasing agents get up and walk away from the table over 1/2 of a cent per unit cost because they were talking about buying millions of the item and the overall cost was more than they wanted to pay. So what seems like a trivial amount can actually add up to millions of dollars and the bean counters are only concerned with the bottom line.

[lostforawhile]

my scooter came with a sheng whey, it was already destroyed by ethanol soit became junk and I went with a Keihin, carbs need adjustment to function properly , even summer to winter, these are not electronic self adjusting ones ,atmospheric conditions are different, and temps are different

[RogerWFarrier]

my scooter came with a sheng whey, it was already destroyed by ethanol soit became junk and I went with a Keihin, carbs need adjustment to function properly , even summer to winter, these are not electronic self adjusting ones ,atmospheric conditions are different, and temps are different

The only thing that I've noticed with the Keima here in Florida is during this recent cold snap is that in the colder air it idles a little higher but not enough to even bother with and one morning I did actually have to use the choke but generally I find it's easier to just give it a little gas while starting and keep the revs up for about a minute than it is trying to find the choke since it's pretty hard to reach. Even at 28 degrees after about a minute it settled into a decent idle on it's own.

[Mudflap]

What part of the carb was destroyed by ethanol? I keep hearing of carbs destroyed by ethanol but I've never seen one.


my scooter came with a sheng whey, it was already destroyed by ethanol soit became junk and I went with a Keihin, carbs need adjustment to function properly , even summer to winter, these are not electronic self adjusting ones ,atmospheric conditions are different, and temps are different

[Azhule]

What part of the carb was destroyed by ethanol? I keep hearing of carbs destroyed by ethanol but I've never seen one.

O-rings and gaskets dry out and get brittle, brass parts turn green and start to "pit out", and any other part that doesn't like "water absorbed fuel" or "alcohol drying gas"... lots of ways "ethanol fuel" can destroy a carb IME :hehe:

[BlackBike]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRx099vrK-ZQFvProh33fIzwWC6F43VPBpVOIM3Yheb1ngzF9o

2 Hydrogen and oxygen and we are makin water . It just happened in my moms x300 john deer. May have been due to cold temps down here.:shrug: had to dump the tank and clear the lines :ohno:

[RogerWFarrier]

My carb wasn't affected but I had my stock fuel line swell up on the inside to where it wouldn't allow any fuel to flow. In fact when I took it off to replace it you couldn't even blow air through it. Now I just run ethanol free gas when I can get it.