Jialing 200cc Engine Damage

[TommyD]

I finally got the engine pulled. The damage is much more severe than I had expected. Here are some photos. If anyone has any recommendations on how I should proceed comments/opinions are very welcome.

[rjmorel]

Ouchy-ka-bootles, theres got to be an interesting story behind this? How old is bike, how many miles on it? What were circumstances that led to this engine failure? rj

[Megadan]

Wow. With the damage that extensive you will be doing a full tear down and case split. At least that is what I would do. Those metal shavings and chunks will get into the unsealed bearings inside the motor and lodged into gear mechanisms etc. You could easily get all of the parts you need to rebuild it, but at this point you would likely be replacing a majority of the internals. If we assume the transmission side can be cleaned up and saved, then a new crank and rod, piston, cylinder, and probably the head if that piston hit the valves, which I am assuming it did given the pushrods, then you will be looking at a minimum of $250-300 in parts.

If you order the parts through this site you might get that total down, but I would tear into that motor and see just how bad the damage is. Price out the parts you will need, and see what kind of total you are looking at.

Either that or keep an eye out for a parts bike with a good engine on it, or maybe a used motor on ebay. Otherwise you are looking at around $600-700 for a complete new engine. If you are going to go that route, might as well upgrade to a CG250 and gain a little extra grunt in the process.

[Megadan]

Ouchy-ka-bootles, theres got to be an interesting story behind this? How old is bike, how many miles on it? What were circumstances that led to this engine failure? rj

If I had to hazard a guess, I would say a severe over-rev, likely on a downshift (or the bike had a CDI with no rev limiter). That is the most common cause of piston failures at the wrist pin or wrist pin failures.

[TommyD]

Megadan - I have a parts bike with another 163FML. Supposedly it runs good (according to the seller). When you mentioned I can order parts through "this site" what are you referring to?

[TommyD]

rjmorel - The guy I bought the bike from told me he allowed a friend to borrow it and it came back broke. A mechanic that he took it to for repair thought it just had thrown a push rod. I was hoping I was just in for some top-end work, but obviously this will need a complete rebuild or replacement engine.

If I could find the parts I would certainly prefer to rebuild it. Just not sure where to start.

[rjmorel]

Megadan " If you are going to go that route, might as well upgrade to a CG250 and gain a little extra grunt in the process. "

Will the CG250 be a direct bolt in? That would be cool.

TommyD, I'm in the same boat as you. Mine runs but is blowing blue smoke like a 2 stroke engine. I Need to tare into mine also. Not sure how to do it without messing up valve timing or how to put it back together making sure the valve train is all in sync where it is suppose to be. rj

[Cravin01]

Ouch! I think I would look to a motor upgrade too. The bent rod sealed it for me and since you haven't heard it run there may be some unseen problems.

[TommyD]

Added Note: If you look closely at the pic of the cylinder, what you are seeing is melted steel (or whatever) sitting on the cylinder wall. It doesn't feel like anything dug into the wall.

I didn't photograph the valve area, but the valves have an even coat of carbon sitting on them and appear to be undisturbed.

A top-end kit is cheap for these on Ebay. Obviously the question is how quickly did this engine seize and how much metal actually circulated and to what extend further damage is done. Regardless, the entire engine will need disassembled and thoroughly cleaned and inspected.

I did a quick ebay search but didn't find a connecting rod and bearing. By the way, the rotating assembly moves freely with no noise.

Has anyone here attempted to straighten a bent connecting rod? I see it being done on YouTube on larger vehicles, but nothing on motorcycles.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Added Note: If you look closely at the pic of the cylinder, what you are seeing is melted steel (or whatever) sitting on the cylinder wall. It doesn't feel like anything dug into the wall.

I didn't photograph the valve area, but the valves have an even coat of carbon sitting on them and appear to be undisturbed.

A top-end kit is cheap for these on Ebay. Obviously the question is how quickly did this engine seize and how much metal actually circulated and to what extend further damage is done. Regardless, the entire engine will need disassembled and thoroughly cleaned and inspected.

I did a quick ebay search but didn't find a connecting rod and bearing. By the way, the rotating assembly moves freely with no noise.

Has anyone here attempted to straighten a bent connecting rod? I see it being done on YouTube on larger vehicles, but nothing on motorcycles.I would not risk a straightened connecting rod on a motorcycle, especially one used off-road, even part of the time. ...ARH

[Megadan]

Megadan - I have a parts bike with another 163FML. Supposedly it runs good (according to the seller). When you mentioned I can order parts through "this site" what are you referring to?

oops, forgot the link. http://www.motopartsmax.com/index.php/main_page/index/cPath/21/tID/2

As far as the CG250 bolting up in place of the 200. As long as it is the same type, counterbalanced or non-counterbalanced, then it should bolt right in.

[Megadan]

I would not risk a straightened connecting rod on a motorcycle, especially one used off-road, even part of the time. ...ARH

I agree with that 100%.

I also think that even though some parts may look or feel fine, they should be replaced during a rebuild anyway. At a minimum I would have the crankshaft checked to make sure it is still straight and the bearing surface is not marred up from metal pieces.

Plus a new crank and rod isn't that expensive anyway.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

I agree with that 100%.

I also think that even though some parts may look or feel fine, they should be replaced during a rebuild anyway. At a minimum I would have the crankshaft checked to make sure it is still straight and the bearing surface is not marred up from metal pieces.

Plus a new crank and rod isn't that expensive anyway.Yes, I know a new crank and rod assembly, with main bearings, is not that expensive. But I didn't want to dilute the basic message. A rod that is bent like this one is, was stressed (weakened) by the bend. Metal is stretched on one side, and slightly compressed on the other...ARH

[Megadan]

Yes, I know a new crank and rod assembly, with main bearings, is not that expensive. But I didn't want to dilute the basic message. A rod that is bent like this one is, was stressed (weakened) by the bend. Metal is stretched on one side, and slightly compressed on the other...ARH

The part about the crank was not directed your way.:tup:

[TommyD]

Megadan and ARH - Thanks, guys. I am simply discussing options right now.

Megadan - thanks for that link. These prices are very reasonable. Their cranks show they come with the connecting rod for a very reasonable price. The entire upper-end kits are extremely reasonable too. I just need to verify the dimensions.

I'll most likely go ahead and install the Loncin 200cc from my parts bike. It's missing the kick starter but I was able to, with some force, creatively kick it by hand and it seems to have good compression. No bottom end noise, seems to easily shift through the gears etc. Supposedly, it only went to the mechanic for non-engine related issues. I'll give it a good look-over this week before I swap the engines. If something bad is found I might rebuild (or repair) one of them or buy a new engine off ebay.

I'll keep posting as this journey continues...:thanks:

[Megadan]

Megadan and ARH - Thanks, guys. I am simply discussing options right now.

Megadan - thanks for that link. These prices are very reasonable. Their cranks show they come with the connecting rod for a very reasonable price. The entire upper-end kits are extremely reasonable too. I just need to verify the dimensions.

I'll most likely go ahead and install the Loncin 200cc from my parts bike. It's missing the kick starter but I was able to, with some force, creatively kick it by hand and it seems to have good compression. No bottom end noise, seems to easily shift through the gears etc. Supposedly, it only went to the mechanic for non-engine related issues. I'll give it a good look-over this week before I swap the engines. If something bad is found I might rebuild (or repair) one of them or buy a new engine off ebay.

I'll keep posting as this journey continues...:thanks:
The parts bike motor sounds like a winner. You can always rebuild this one on the side.

[pistolclass]

The part about the crank was not directed your way.:tup:

Crank... ARH.... Te he... I get it.

Love ya ARH , just poking fun. In all truthfulness, you forgot more about motorcycles then I have yet to learn.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

The part about the crank was not directed your way.:tup:Ha-ha. Funny man...ARH:p

[TommyD]

I took some readings with my digital calipers as follows:

Cylinder and Piston - Due to damage I got slightly varied readings but basically close to 63mm like 63.2 or so.

Piston Height - 45.9

Piston Pin - 15mm x 47.8mm

I found a cylinder on ebay that seems to match with a 63mm bore, 3" height plus the cylinder sleeve portion at 1.07"

Strangely, I don't see much with these dimensions on Ebay (other than cylinder) or the site Megadan linked other than possibly the crank/Connecting rod where the connecting rod hole for the piston pin measured 14mm. I may have just not searched properly.

I measured my push rods but must have written them down wrong so I'll re-measure them tomorrow. If I tear this down I might as well replace the head/valve assembly and rockers arms (complete top end) as well as the lower rocker arms.

I guess figuring out the gasket set will be just as much fun!

[Megadan]

Crank and rod combo with 15mm (.588 inches) small end for a 200cc.
http://www.motopartsmax.com/index.php/main_page/product_info/products_id/712/tID/2/cPath/21_136/eID/7

The piston should be a 63.5mm bore, which i pretty standard for the 200's/ Likely the missing .5mm is the material you found stuck to the cylinder wall.

This cylinder, pistons, rings, pin, and gasket setup should work, but I would contact them before ordering to verify the wrist pin diameter since they don't list it. http://www.motopartsmax.com/index.php/main_page/product_info/products_id/15189/tID/2/cPath/21_85/eID/7

[humanbeing]

http://www.jhpiston.com/about_can/ - From 1 of the big industry player that covers the details of most chinese made engine

[Weldangrind]

Good Heavens! I'll bet all of the horsepower leaked out when that piston parted company. There is probably a resulting flat spot on the rear tire from when the rear wheel locked up.


This'll be a good opportunity to split the case and see how the bottom end goes together. If you decide to rebuild, you might consider a different transmission while it is apart. I'm guessing that the XR200 six speed is a drop-in deal, and an extra gear in the middle would be helpful with a 200. You can also inspect the blind bearings in the case for shrapnel; case halves immersed in a large pot of boiling water will allow you to extract the bearings if necessary.

[TommyD]

Thanks Megadan for the links. I'm checking them out. I have private messaged you with a question.

Weldandgrind - boiling water...interesting. Does the boiling water cause the shrapnel to float to the surface?

[franque]

No, it's just for removing the crankshaft bearings. If you decide you don't want to mess around with the junk motor, if be interested in the bottom end!

[TommyD]

No, it's just for removing the crankshaft bearings. If you decide you don't want to mess around with the junk motor, if be interested in the bottom end!

Well...I've not determined it's "junk" just yet and so far the parts list to repair it seem pretty reasonable - not to mention the fun learning and doing it.

I bought the Jialing as a project bike and a couple weeks later found the parts bike which is also a 163FML. Thanks to the helpful people on this forum I am sure I'll see this project through, even if it means purchasing a new engine.

When the project is finished I may have at least one engine available for sale and if I do I'll certainly post it here first.

Thank you for the inquiry.

[TommyD]

An update for those that have followed my threads:

First off, I apologize. I mentioned that I was going to video the process of taking this 2008 Jialing (HiSun) dual sport through a build to make it a tracker/scrambler type bike. So far, I've only taken a few photos.

I have spent countless hours following other peoples builds and getting design ideas. I have also digitized the bike to scale in Autocad and moved it from there to photoshop where I've been playing with various frame modifications, gas tanks and seat ideas.

I spend a great deal of time looking at parts on Ebay, Amazon, and my local Craigslist ads. The two most readily available gas tanks are the CG125/250 and Honda Rebel tanks. The CG125 tank has been used a lot. The Rebel tank is more of a chopper style and I don't like it for this build. I tend to like the Honda CB and Suzuki GS style of tanks but they vary in look over the years and depending on their size, may or may not look good on this bike. In other words, I am still researching.

Thanks to having done a fair amount of custom upholstery over the years, and having an industrial sewing machine, I plan on building the seat myself. My wife does not want the thin flat style of seat your see on flat trackers or cafe racers but she wants it to look cool!

It'll have a retro look to it but she still wants it to look tough!

We've put budget constraints on this (including possibility of new engine) so I'll be painting the frame vs. powder coating. It will get all new lighting and turn signals, speedometer etc. Shortened front forks, slightly lowered rear stance (3" front, 2" rear), new exhaust and muffler. Pretty much everything will be changed or modified in one way or another.

So far I am into this project extremely cheap. I have a titled and registered 200cc motorcycle that is a blank slate. I am having fun and my wife is excited to get her customized motorcycle.

Megadan has been instrumental in helping me source the parts for the Jialing engine. As a backup, I have a Loncin engine I may use. If both of those options fail, I'll buy a Lifan for it.

As I mentioned I'm working on designs. When they get closer to completed I'll post them for feedback. Please remember, this is a ladies bike with a very subtle WonderWoman/Breast Cancer Survivor theme. The attached Logo will be added to both sides of the tank but at only about 3" wide and more of a fuchsia color than light pink on black background,

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Thanks Megadan for the links. I'm checking them out. I have private messaged you with a question.

Weldandgrind - boiling water...interesting. Does the boiling water cause the shrapnel to float to the surface?No, the boiling water is for the crankcase to expand and release the bearings so that they come out of the cases easily. I've never done it that way, myself. I used a propane torch to heat up the cases (one at a time) and the bearings came out quite easily...ARH

[TommyD]

Thanks, ARH. I appreciate all of the good advice! I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions when I start disassembly of the lower end.

[Weldangrind]

Love the logo! I'm quite interested to see what you show us next, Tommy.