Turbo Vader

[Hammertime]

Has anyone put a turbo on Vader 125 if so what turbo did you use

[ben2go]

:ohno:

[franque]

I'd look at a bigger motor, first. From what I've seen, getting a turbo that would be small enough would be almost impossible. The smallest turbo I've heard of was for a Honda CRF250R... It made about 85 HP, iirc. This motor is a completely different animal. Adding a turbo adds a lot of heat; suffice it to say, there's a reason that there are very few production turbocharged air-cooled motors.

[Hammertime]

I here you but they have one for a grom but don't need think it will bolt on so was try to piece a kit and fab my own kit just wondering if anyone has tired

[culcune]

I'd look at a bigger motor, first. From what I've seen, getting a turbo that would be small enough would be almost impossible. The smallest turbo I've heard of was for a Honda CRF250R... It made about 85 HP, iirc. This motor is a completely different animal. Adding a turbo adds a lot of heat; suffice it to say, there's a reason that there are very few production turbocharged air-cooled motors.

The 190cc is an attractive option, but 'expensive' (expensive being relative); there are smaller engines, such as the 140cc option. I do believe that most of the larger crate engines are not electric start, but don't quote me.

[JerryHawk250]

I here you but they have one for a grom but don't need think it will bolt on so was try to piece a kit and fab my own kit just wondering if anyone has tired Those Grom kits go for about $1700. and would probably bolt right up. That's a lot of money for only 15-16 hp. But you can build you own kit for way less money. Turbo alone are under $200. The trick is sizing the turbo right and fabricating all the piping. Sizing the turbine side for a 125 cc engine will be the hardest part because it doesn't flow a lot of air. I've built a few turbo systems over the years for cars and trucks. The thought has crossed my mine on building one for my Hawk. The only concern I have is being able to adjust timing. On stock timing you will be limited to how much boost you will be able to push. There are programable DCI's but don't know how much you will be able to adjust the timing.

[wlfpck]

Your ZS190 is about $760 to $850.

Turbo on a Vader is doable considering the simplicity of a turbo and how they work. Issue is going to be tuning. You don't have fuel injection so you'll have to figure out the jetting.

ZS190 is a LOT more durable than the 125cc (stock) and for the cost of a 140, 150, etc... just hold out and save a bit more.

As franque mentioned before... Turbos generate a LOT of heat. You're going to increase the temp of engine with no real way to increase the cooling.

Assuming you can weld, fabricating the piping wouldn't be too bad... but you still have to figure out mounting location and everything else.

If you NEED more power than the ZS190 can push out...

Do the ZS190 swap. Use the Daytona 4V head. Get the bore kit to make it 212cc. Run a bigger carb.

Whole point of the ZS190 is that you get a bigger engine and you get a 5-speed instead of 4 speed.

[JerryHawk250]

Your ZS190 is about $760 to $850.

Turbo on a Vader is doable considering the simplicity of a turbo and how they work. Issue is going to be tuning. You don't have fuel injection so you'll have to figure out the jetting.

ZS190 is a LOT more durable than the 125cc (stock) and for the cost of a 140, 150, etc... just hold out and save a bit more.

As franque mentioned before... Turbos generate a LOT of heat. You're going to increase the temp of engine with no real way to increase the cooling.

Assuming you can weld, fabricating the piping wouldn't be too bad... but you still have to figure out mounting location and everything else.

If you NEED more power than the ZS190 can push out...

Do the ZS190 swap. Use the Daytona 4V head. Get the bore kit to make it 212cc. Run a bigger carb.

Whole point of the ZS190 is that you get a bigger engine and you get a 5-speed instead of 4 speed.
^^ I agree with this guy. :tup: ^^

[wlfpck]

Just as a follow up as well...

In the ZS190 Swap Shop facebook group, there is a guy selling the 212cc bore kits. So it's not like you would even need to figure out custom parts. I think the only thing you need to do is either find a machinist to bore it out or do it yourself.

[Weldangrind]

I love silly thread like this. :D If you could figure out how to run a pulley, you could boost a little motor with a smog pump. More a blower than a turbo, and it wouldn't generate as much heat. Packaging is the problem.

[RedCrowRides]

I'm just not convinced that a Turbo on a Vader or Grom even assuming it could be tuned would result in more HP gain than a straight 190 swap, which also does not entail the heat issues you'd get with the Turbo. A 125cc motor just isn't going to make but so many HP no matter what you do and I fear that high enough boost to outpower the 190 swap would strain the engine so badly it would just be a time bomb ticking ,waiting on a chance to "asplode".
There is an old adage in Racing circles that says " There is no replacement for displacement" and I think that holds true here . You aren't compromising durability or reliability with the 190 swap ,you are gaining a 5th gear ,none of which can be said about the Turbo.

If you just HAVE to have a Turbo 125 Vader then fine ,by all means build it but personally I think it equates to ice skating uphill , at great expense.

[Medicbobs]

Your ZS190 is about $760 to $850.

Turbo on a Vader is doable considering the simplicity of a turbo and how they work. Issue is going to be tuning. You don't have fuel injection so you'll have to figure out the jetting.

ZS190 is a LOT more durable than the 125cc (stock) and for the cost of a 140, 150, etc... just hold out and save a bit more.

As franque mentioned before... Turbos generate a LOT of heat. You're going to increase the temp of engine with no real way to increase the cooling.

Assuming you can weld, fabricating the piping wouldn't be too bad... but you still have to figure out mounting location and everything else.

If you NEED more power than the ZS190 can push out...

Do the ZS190 swap. Use the Daytona 4V head. Get the bore kit to make it 212cc. Run a bigger carb.

Whole point of the ZS190 is that you get a bigger engine and you get a 5-speed instead of 4 speed.


Is getting that 1200-1300 Bored out ZS190 engine worth it over the regular? What carb do you suggest with that one?

[Deckard_Cain]

Is getting that 1200-1300 Bored out ZS190 engine worth it over the regular? What carb do you suggest with that one?

Debatable and probably subjective. I'd personally just get the $850 190cc engine, put a better exhaust on it and a good carburator, probably a PE30 or similar. Then see what you think.

A 190 with exhaust and tuned carb will take a grom clone bike well up to 80 or 90mph. Probably faster and scarier than your wheels and tires are comfortable with as it is.

Getting the 212cc BBK on top of that might be overkill for a lot of people. But it's something that's easily added on later if you feel a worked over 190 still isn't enough.

[Darryl]

" there is no replacement for displacement " - until you turn on the nitrous bottle! I wouldn't expect a long engine life though..

[bogieboy]

" there is no replacement for displacement " - until you turn on the nitrous bottle! I wouldn't expect a long engine life though..

boost and nitrous do the same thing when you get down to it.... boost crams more air fuel mix to increase cylinder pressure, nitrous uses catalyst and fuel to do the same... one is easier on the engine, one is an instant hit that very easily breaks parts by the instantaneous stressors of it....LOL

that said, i have never considered nitrous for my bike... i may or may not have a VERY SMALL turbo sitting in my basement for a rainy day....LOL

[Rangerscott]

Theres a guy on FB that can get you a zs190 with accessories for under $700

The compression on these horizontal engines are too high to get any real power from a turbo. The zs190 has a 11.0:1 ratio. Plus theyre air cooled. The engine isnt going to last.

[Darryl]

boost and nitrous do the same thing when you get down to it.... boost crams more air fuel mix to increase cylinder pressure, nitrous uses catalyst and fuel to do the same... one is easier on the engine, one is an instant hit that very easily breaks parts by the instantaneous stressors of it....LOL

that said, i have never considered nitrous for my bike... i may or may not have a VERY SMALL turbo sitting in my basement for a rainy day....LOL
It is all about the oxygen and fuel. Nitrous might work out better if you go light on it. Don't shoot for a 150 hp shot, settle for 1.5 hp. Methanol injection might work, although that works better for forced induction.

Turbos suck on bikes. There's nothing like being halfway through a turn, accelerating out of it when the turbo spools up and the non linear power kicks the back end out.

[bogieboy]

It is all about the oxygen and fuel. Nitrous might work out better if you go light on it. Don't shoot for a 150 hp shot, settle for 1.5 hp. Methanol injection might work, although that works better for forced induction.

Turbos suck on bikes. There's nothing like being halfway through a turn, accelerating out of it when the turbo spools up and the non linear power kicks the back end out.

if its sized correctly theres no (or Very little) "spool"... the turbo i have probably wouldnt spool at all coming around a corner.... LOL it would take at least a 3rd gear pull to get it huffing good....LOL :hehe:

[Darryl]

A buddy had an XN85 which he had just broken in. Nice bike, but it topped out at 128 mph. I know this as he disappeared in my VFR750's rear view mirrors starting at that speed. I had troubles not cracking 125 mph on that bike - it only took a few seconds to get there and it went so much faster. That Suzuki could not come close to keeping up on corners either as the turbo made it twitchy. I got to 47 mph on my Vader over the weekend - it was a far more intense experience than the VFR at 125. You guys trying to crack 60mph are nuts!

[Big Bird]

A buddy had an XN85 which he had just broken in. Nice bike, but it topped out at 128 mph. I know this as he disappeared in my VFR750's rear view mirrors starting at that speed. I had troubles not cracking 125 mph on that bike - it only took a few seconds to get there and it went so much faster. That Suzuki could not come close to keeping up on corners either as the turbo made it twitchy. I got to 47 mph on my Vader over the weekend - it was a far more intense experience than the VFR at 125. You guys trying to crack 60mph are nuts!
Weird 47 is cruising speed on my vader. That's kinda the happy zone for these things.

[Darryl]

Weird 47 is cruising speed on my vader. That's kinda the happy zone for these things.

I felt the same way about 125 on the VFR, only more relaxed. The Vader does 47 ok, it's just done with more tension. It's like 55 mph in an MG midget felt fast, while in a corvette it feels like you are parked.