Lifan 150cc for Hellcat?

[Chinabike]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072MLD5J2/ref=twister_B071JTHBXT?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIFAN-140CC-ENGINE-OIL-COOLED-MOTOR-XR-CRF50-SDG-107-125CC-TDPRO-/282484522887?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

Just wondering would an engine like this fix in the TaoTao hellcat?
Or is there any 140cc 150cc engines that will? piranha?

[culcune]

The owner of Kronik Racing in Simi Valley, Cal. has sold a few ZS190 engines destined for the Vaders he also sells; I am fairly certain the engine mounts for the clones using the 125cc horizontal thumpers are universal meaning if people can exchange larger engines into Vaders, they should be able to install larger engines into the Taotao Hellcat.

[RedCrowRides]

There is definitely a 143cc engine that is a straight bolt in , that runs about $400 ,I dont recall if that includes Shipping ( i doubt it) .The 143 is referred to as a "150" , the reason it isn't as well known a swap is it still has a 4 speed gearbox and the difference between
125cc and 143cc isn't that big so it hasn't really taken off .Most people just repl. the stock motor with a stock one if it had issues or go with the Zs190 swap since thats a pretty big cc increase plus it has a 5 speed gearbox,it is a direct bolt in.



I'm pretty sure the 143cc motor was at Pitster Pro ,i " think" i bookmarked the page it was on , I'll try to find a link to it and post it.,maybe you can can match it to one of the EBay / Amazon ones.


This should be it : https://shop.pitsterpro.com/electricstart150highoutput.aspx

[Chinabike]

Thanks Guys.
I was just wondering, as I don't want the power speed of the z190.
If I ever decided /needed to get a new motor was there something better that would swap right into the Hellcat? Rather than getting a new stock motor.

[RedCrowRides]

Yeah if something catastrophic happened to your stock motor and you needed to repl the whole thing, the 150 is a little more expensive but in the area of a repl stock one, and it will go right in, and would likely be at least as durable as well as more powerful.



If I were looking at replacing a blown stock motor and didnt want to do the Zs190 jump , thats how I would go . Thats kinda a nice aspect of these China bikes, parts and engines are not that expensive and there is a LOT of interchangeability.


Anyways , if you dont "daydream" about bike mods ,somethings wrong with ya so never feel wierd about asking questions ,thats what the Forum is here for !

[Chinabike]

Anyways , if you dont "daydream" about bike mods ,somethings wrong with ya so never feel wierd about asking questions ,thats what the Forum is here for !


Nailed it! Ha

[kirbo7106]

Anyways , if you dont "daydream" about bike mods ,somethings wrong with ya so never feel wierd about asking questions ,thats what the Forum is here for !

And there lies the “problem”! I bought a Hawk 250 because of the great support on this forum and all the cool mods you can do! But with the Grom class of motorcycles there are sooo many choices!

I don’t want to “steal” this thread, so I’m going to start a new thread!:D

Enjoy the Ride!

[wlfpck]

If you get an engine without electric start, you'll need to get a new rear set that will allow you to use the kick start. The OEM one is in the way (at least it is on the ZS190).

Piranha makes a 150cc electric start 4-speed. I believe it's around $500.

Piranha also has a 140cc electric start 4-speed that is "semi-auto". No clutch lever, but you still have to shift. That's also around $500.

Best bang for your buck is still the ZS190. I believe they're revising parts to make the engine better and more reliable.

Other option is to do a bore kit on your OEM 125cc. The kits I have seen are for 146cc and cost about $300. At that point... I feel like just getting the Piranha 150cc is a better deal as it gives you a replaceable oil filter and gets rid of the oil spinner (I think) which eliminates some rotational mass.

[Chinabike]

If you get an engine without electric start, you'll need to get a new rear set that will allow you to use the kick start. The OEM one is in the way (at least it is on the ZS190).

Piranha makes a 150cc electric start 4-speed. I believe it's around $500.

Piranha also has a 140cc electric start 4-speed that is "semi-auto". No clutch lever, but you still have to shift. That's also around $500.

Best bang for your buck is still the ZS190. I believe they're revising parts to make the engine better and more reliable.

Other option is to do a bore kit on your OEM 125cc. The kits I have seen are for 146cc and cost about $300. At that point... I feel like just getting the Piranha 150cc is a better deal as it gives you a replaceable oil filter and gets rid of the oil spinner (I think) which eliminates some rotational mass.


What search term is best to find an engine?
When I search in eBay i get so many options. But a lot 3 gear and reverse or only kickstart engine? semi-auto.


Ideally, i want a 140-150cc electric start. 1-n-2-3-4 or N-1-2-3-4
That will bolt right up to the Hellcat

[culcune]

What search term is best to find an engine?
When I search in eBay i get so many options. But a lot 3 gear and reverse or only kickstart engine? semi-auto.


Ideally, i want a 140-150cc electric start. 1-n-2-3-4 or N-1-2-3-4
That will bolt right up to the Hellcat

You are going to want to go to specific sites such as Pitster Pro to look at their crate engines, or T-Bolt USA for the above mentioned Piranha engines. Since I live so close, I personally would call Kronik Racing, and I have spoken with the owner a couple times; he is very knowledgeable about mini racing bikes as his store has been open several years specializing in pit bike racing parts. He was not very nice when we were discussing Taotao's Hellcat as he feels they are inferior in quality to the Vaders which he carries. They are located in Simi Valley. We have discussed the ZS190 as they sell them (I believe they are out of them) and several customers have installed them in Vaders. I wouldn't deal with too many unknown places such as those that come up in searches, or those selling on ebay.

[Chinabike]

You are going to want to go to specific sites such as Pitster Pro to look at their crate engines, or T-Bolt USA for the above mentioned Piranha engines. Since I live so close, I personally would call Kronik Racing, and I have spoken with the owner a couple times; he is very knowledgeable about mini racing bikes as his store has been open several years specializing in pit bike racing parts. He was not very nice when we were discussing Taotao's Hellcat as he feels they are inferior in quality to the Vaders which he carries. They are located in Simi Valley. We have discussed the ZS190 as they sell them (I believe they are out of them) and several customers have installed them in Vaders. I wouldn't deal with too many unknown places such as those that come up in searches, or those selling on ebay.

Ha TaoTao hellcats must be cutting into his sells.
Ok i'll look at one of those sites first when i'm ready to buy.
I like Pitster Pro.

[Bruces]

I noticed wlfpck stated the 190 was the best bang for the buck ,I don’t know where he came up with that but that couldn’t be further from the truth .Yes the 190 has lots of power ,but they also break constantly in a real bad way ,I have had so many in my shop with the kick shaft busted right out of the block ,or the tranny broken right out of the block ,or the engine mount ears broken clear off ,that I personally feel they are the absolute worst bang for the buck .I stopped installing them ,or dealing with them long ago because of the headaches involved in telling little Johnny that his brand new engine he kickstarted twice is now just a worthless pile ,and when I last played with them they were well over $1000.00 and fragile like glass .
I can’t say enough about the piranha 140 engines ,and I have dealt with dozens of them ,they make good power ,last a very long time ,run and work properly ,and are very inexpensive ,comparing them to more standard engines like the usual Lifans everybody uses .They are like the small block Chevy of pit bike engines .I have kids that have raced the same one for 2 seasons and are still having no issues .The Pitster pro engines are also very good ,my customers with them have been happy as well ,just not as many of them that I have dealt with .

[Chinabike]

I noticed wlfpck stated the 190 was the best bang for the buck ,I don’t know where he came up with that but that couldn’t be further from the truth .Yes the 190 has lots of power ,but they also break constantly in a real bad way ,I have had so many in my shop with the kick shaft busted right out of the block ,or the tranny broken right out of the block ,or the engine mount ears broken clear off ,that I personally feel they are the absolute worst bang for the buck .I stopped installing them ,or dealing with them long ago because of the headaches involved in telling little Johnny that his brand new engine he kickstarted twice is now just a worthless pile ,and when I last played with them they were well over $1000.00 and fragile like glass .
I can’t say enough about the piranha 140 engines ,and I have dealt with dozens of them ,they make good power ,last a very long time ,run and work properly ,and are very inexpensive ,comparing them to more standard engines like the usual Lifans everybody uses .They are like the small block Chevy of pit bike engines .I have kids that have raced the same one for 2 seasons and are still having no issues .The Pitster pro engines are also very good ,my customers with them have been happy as well ,just not as many of them that I have dealt with .

Thank you for some of your knowledge Bruces.
I'm very interested in the Piranha 140, I have mostly read positive things about it.
But Bruces do they make the 140 with electric start?

Not buying this. But for info purpose is this one? Whats Semi-Auto mean?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/140CC-PIRANHA-SEMI-AUTO-Electric-start-under-engine-better-than-Lifan-125/253153657725?hash=item3af122437d:g:9icAAOSwUBlZurP J

[Bruces]

Semi auto means you don’t have a manual clutch ,but you do have to shift the bike .I have never had anybody that had a piranha electric start as I usually work on race bikes ,but I am sure they are available and there is a link or two in earlier posts for them .

[wlfpck]

I noticed wlfpck stated the 190 was the best bang for the buck ,I don’t know where he came up with that but that couldn’t be further from the truth .Yes the 190 has lots of power ,but they also break constantly in a real bad way ,I have had so many in my shop with the kick shaft busted right out of the block ,or the tranny broken right out of the block ,or the engine mount ears broken clear off ,that I personally feel they are the absolute worst bang for the buck .I stopped installing them ,or dealing with them long ago because of the headaches involved in telling little Johnny that his brand new engine he kickstarted twice is now just a worthless pile ,and when I last played with them they were well over $1000.00 and fragile like glass .
I can’t say enough about the piranha 140 engines ,and I have dealt with dozens of them ,they make good power ,last a very long time ,run and work properly ,and are very inexpensive ,comparing them to more standard engines like the usual Lifans everybody uses .They are like the small block Chevy of pit bike engines .I have kids that have raced the same one for 2 seasons and are still having no issues .The Pitster pro engines are also very good ,my customers with them have been happy as well ,just not as many of them that I have dealt with .

That's the first time that I've heard about this. There are tons of people that run them and have nothing but good things to say. And these aren't people that only have 10-20 miles on them. We're talking several hundreds and some at close to 1000 miles.

In terms of best bang for the buck... 5 speed, 190cc, electric start, oil filter, comes with oil cooler, carb, wiring. A lot of stuff for $850.

Key thing is that the idle needs to be set to 2K and the throttle shouldn't be touched when starting the bike.

From your comment on the kickstarter... no one in the facebook groups for the grom clones uses them as the kickstarter won't fit with the factory rear set. Everyone with the swap in these groups use the E-start.

Pitster Pro carries and sells them alongside the Daytona Animas... which apparently is also made by Zongshen. Opening up the ZS190cc, you'll actually see parts in which the Daytona logo is scratched out.

http://www.sport-toys.com/ZONGSHEN-ZS190-2-VALVES-ENGINE

This would be the ZS190cc engine that is being talked about...

https://pitsterpro.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=10&product_id=79

Listed here as a GPX Moto brand...

Now the same engine here on Tboltusa:

https://tboltusa.com/store/pitster-pro-190cc-2v-five-speed-electric-start-engine-p-10767.html

Listed as a pitster pro brand engine.

And here at steady garage:

https://www.steadygarage.com/store/zongshen-190cc-2-valve-engine-5-speed-electric-start

listed as a Zongshen.

But anyways... with that being said, may want to post up on the facebook groups. Maybe those guys are on the second or third revisions of the engine? Maybe the early ones were really bad and they fixed a lot of things now?

Zs190 Swap Page
ZS190 Swap Shop
Clone Army
Icebear Fuerza Owners Group

I'm am NOT calling you a liar or anything. Not trying to start an argument either... but there are groups of people that have had very good experiences. So maybe it's a revision thing.

There's even people who've changed out the heads are now running the engine but at 212cc.

Thank you for some of your knowledge Bruces.
I'm very interested in the Piranha 140, I have mostly read positive things about it.
But Bruces do they make the 140 with electric start?

Not buying this. But for info purpose is this one? Whats Semi-Auto mean?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/140CC-PIRANHA-SEMI-AUTO-Electric-start-under-engine-better-than-Lifan-125/253153657725?hash=item3af122437d:g:9icAAOSwUBlZurP J


Check here:

Piranha 140cc with electric start and semi-auto:
https://tboltusa.com/store/piranha-140cc-bottom-electric-start-semi-auto-start-engine-p-10616.html

Piranha 150cc with electric start
https://tboltusa.com/store/piranha-150-start-engine-br-fits-pit-bikes-and-other-minis-p-2477.html

These are all N-1-2-3-4 according to the site.

What search term is best to find an engine?
When I search in eBay i get so many options. But a lot 3 gear and reverse or only kickstart engine? semi-auto.


Ideally, i want a 140-150cc electric start. 1-n-2-3-4 or N-1-2-3-4
That will bolt right up to the Hellcat

The search term you're looking for is "pit bike engine". That's what I used. Can also search things like horizontal motorcycle engine. Or CRF50 engine swap.

[Chinabike]

do you have links to these groups i can't find them in a search?

Zs190 Swap Page
ZS190 Swap Shop

[RedCrowRides]

There are a lot of positive, running Zs190 swapped engine builds/reviews on Vaders, and other clones on YouTube ., Bizmoto has a beautiful bike running one as an example. None of them has reported catastrophic failure(s) and both Pitster Pro as well as TBolt USA are still offering them for sale and if they were failing at an extreme rate , I'd think they would have stopped doing so if bogged down in a sea of warranty issues and bad press in general. As wlfpck noted, no one running them in a Vader is using the kick start at all ,only the electric start .A search on YouTube for "Zs190 failure " resulted in -0- hits, same search on Google resulted in a single article about a stumble in the upper RPM band but nothing catastrophic in nature.

The very active FaceBook Zs190 group isn't posting reports of these kinds of issues either. ,the single instance I was able to find was from the UK where a race motor was using the "non stock" lightened flywheel, and due to admitted over revving of the engine , broke a crank. I'm not taking sides and I appreciate all input but at this point all my research points to a lot of favorable reviews and reports (ZongShen itself has a good reputation ,as China engine builders go ) and then your lone post reporting a lot of failures that I can 't duplicate from any other source. With that in mind I think the fairest thing to do is mark it down as race level stress and abuse I doubt I will be inflicting on my planned build bike and proceed forward.

[Bruces]

All I can say is none of the bikes I was dealing with were road bikes , none had electric start so it would be fair to say the castings would be different ,some were pre production and definitely had teething problems ,all were owned by racers so no warranty even though one blew up badly the second time it was kicked over ,and they all had lightened flywheels .These were all very early examples so hopefully they have done a better job with them by now .I still won’t be buying one anytime soon .

[wlfpck]

All I can say is none of the bikes I was dealing with were road bikes , none had electric start so it would be fair to say the castings would be different ,some were pre production and definitely had teething problems ,all were owned by racers so no warranty even though one blew up badly the second time it was kicked over ,and they all had lightened flywheels .These were all very early examples so hopefully they have done a better job with them by now .I still won’t be buying one anytime soon .

That's fair. All the ZS190's that people have raved about are used on-road only. So no clue how they would be in an off-road application. That actually makes a bit more sense then. Off-road would get a LOT more abuse than the on-road. Hope I didn't come off rude or anything. Can never tell with online stuff.

The big "failure" seen right now is the starter chain snapping, but that's a cheap part and setting the idle to 2K apparently solves that.

Hoping we don't see any failures with these ZS190s. Would be a shame if the only thing available with electric start was a 150cc.