Venom Vader and Hellcat the same?

[scoot newb]

I was looking at the Hellcat but after looking more...

Venom x21R 125cc vs x20 125cc Vader vs Hellcat. Are they all the same? Same interchangeable parts? Does one perform better than the other? Do they all need bolts lock-tited and tightened? Are the parts interchangeable?

Thanks.

[imapdog]

I was looking at the Hellcat but after looking more...

Venom x21R 125cc vs x20 125cc Vader vs Hellcat. Are they all the same? Same interchangeable parts? Does one perform better than the other? Do they all need bolts lock-tited and tightened? Are the parts interchangeable?

Thanks.

i think they are different in more ways than people think. maybe the common parts are more similar...my engine on the vader II engine stamped 127cc, and i think someone here mentioned the hellcat engine has it stamped 124cc.
would like to know this. i can only verify vader II is 127cc stamp....

[RedCrowRides]

They are all about the same performance wise ,and they all will need the loctite attention, changing the shipping oil out to "real" oil before you start it ,and greasing things that need to be greased. Most people end up putting aftermarket body parts and other accessories that are made for the Honda Grom on them, so if you plan to do that ,stay with a Clone that has the Grom style bodywork, there is a "Ducati Monster" style Clone that Grom plastics just wont fit on .
No Grom engine parts will fit a China Bike ,but a lot of the chassis, body, and suspension parts will .Most all China bike engine parts interchange ,as in Vader parts will fit a Hellcat and vice versa ,the carb kit we all use for example fits all of them no matter what make or model.

Basically it comes down to which one looks best to you, where you can get the best price ,and if the Dealer offers any real support if that matters to you. I personally own a Gen2 Vader and love it , I got it from Venom and would buy from them again and I know Imapdog has had a lot of them , but we also have a lot of happy Hellcat owners/ riders here so it's up to you really.

[kirbo7106]

RedCrowRides is spot on! I choose a Hellcat because it was a couple hundred dollars cheaper, I like the dealership and I like the wheels better. The wheels look more like actual Grom wheels. Ok, I think those wheels will be easier to clean. I priced the wheels from the Hellcat for $70 each. I like the lower fairing on the Vader, but it’s not offered on the Hellcat. I can buy the lower fairing for about $70. Another item I liked was the black engine with the polished aluminum covers. So what it all comes down to is, what makes you go: “Wow! I gotta have one of those!”

Let us know what you decide!

[scoot newb]

Thanks for the replies. I liked the look of the Venom but not worth the $400 difference. Looks like Hellcat it is!

[kirbo7106]

Thanks for the replies. I liked the look of the Venom but not worth the $400 difference. Looks like Hellcat it is!

What color are you going with? Post some pictures when you get it!

Enjoy the Ride!

[scoot newb]

Well, I am going with red but I like the white one better. See, I'm thinking I can just slap the 'moped' sticker from the red ATM-1 50 on the Hellcat and nobody will notice.

[scoot newb]

I did it! I was speaking with Jeff from FamilyGoKarts on the phone about warranty coverage and what would happen if say like the bottom end of the engine was damaged etc etc... He was nice enough to take the order over the phone. I got a white one. I hope I do not get a lemon.

I guess I'll just legit register it. I just liked how easy the moped registration here is. $40 no questions, no inspection, no insurance.

[kirbo7106]

I liked the red one also, but the white won out! I live in Florida and red turns into pink. The sun in Florida is brutal! I don’t think you’ll get a lemon, just be sure to go through all the checks mentioned on this forum.

Keep us posted on your New Hellcat!

[Hellkitty]

I think you'll be happy with your Hellcat, I really like mine. One good thing about the Hellcat is that all the parts are available through Parkskit.com. I just ordered the plastic trim piece that goes under the seat. I ordered the left side and they sent me the right side.....twice. Each time I notified them that it was the wrong side they promptly sent me out another one no questions asked. The third one came today, i had it shipped to my moms house so I'm hoping this time its the right one......well actually the left one. Ill find out tomorrow. The parts are cheap but they charge a lot for shipping.

They finally sent me the correct one!:tup:

[scoot newb]

Wow. That is a completely different experience from what I had with partskit.com. Glad you did not experience problems or at least they are attempting to rectify the problems. There is even a warning on r/TaoTao in regard to ordering from them. So many people had problems.
EDITED


Ordering parts for my ATM 50 was a complete disaster. I'd received wrong and/or damaged parts. When returning the damaged or wrong part i was sent another part that was damaged and wrong. Just trying to get a battery cover was a nightmare. I ordered some bolts for the body parts and was sent some random screws in a zip lock baggie. Luckily they do not respond to anything including the charge back from the Amex.

https://imgur.com/RppdAOB.jpg

https://imgur.com/6oinjw8.jpg


https://imgur.com/2FnpoQw.jpg

[scoot newb]

I am wondering if this will pass inspection with the modded carb and exhaust. I am so tempted to register it as a moped.
Thanks all for the advice and supportive comments.

[RedCrowRides]

I own a Vader ,but honestly if I could have ordered a Hellcat at the time and saved $400, that's what I would have done ,because parts for these bikes whether OEM or aftermarket are cheap, and for me modding a bike to make it how i want it is half the fun and you can do a lot of modding for $400 if you shop carefully .That amount will easily cover a VM22 Mikuni Carb swap kit ,a new pipe ,bars ,levers,grips and mirrors with cash left over.,and even cheap Chinese EBay aftermarket parts will be better than the factory bits. There just isn't enough difference between a Vader and a Hellcat to offset paying $200 to $400 more for one over the other in my opinion, especially if your plan is to modify it . ,because anything you feel is deficient can easily be taken care of.

[Chinabike]

I am wondering if this will pass inspection with the modded carb and exhaust. I am so tempted to register it as a moped.
Thanks all for the advice and supportive comments.

Get it registered as a motorcycle before you mod it. I don't think you can reg. legally as a scoot anyways.

[scoot newb]

True.

Time to fess up.

I canceled the order early this morning. I am going to wait until I can get one AND the zs190 motor.

I was literally up all night watching videos on Grom clones, reading different forum threads and getting stoked... I had a real Mikuni, a spinner and the 17t sprocket in various online carts. Then I stumbled on to the Bang Bang Scooter Gang videos and for whatever reason, after watching a few of those videos I didn't want a Grom clone anymore.

[Lucastheking]

Make sure your state needs inspection, here in ct we dont need inspection for newer bikes, since the bikes come as 2018 it doesnt need inspection, at least it says on the dmv site. I havent registered mines, i ride without plates so im not really sure how that works

[scoot newb]

Here it needs inspection according to the DMV site. I also currently ride without a plate. Just a moped sticker.

[Chinabike]

True.

Time to fess up.

I canceled the order early this morning. I am going to wait until I can get one AND the zs190 motor.

I was literally up all night watching videos on Grom clones, reading different forum threads and getting stoked... I had a real Mikuni, a spinner and the 17t sprocket in various online carts. Then I stumbled on to the Bang Bang Scooter Gang videos and for whatever reason, after watching a few of those videos I didn't want a Grom clone anymore.

You watched there videos now you don't want to get its? why?

[RedCrowRides]

BangBangScooterGang are okay but they really are kinda squiddy sometimes, I much prefer Fooligans Grom Videos, Blockheads Grom Vids, and PhotoGromers. Gromiebear is also okay altho he tends to just ride a bit much and stunt too little for my tastes.


Bizmoto has Grom clone Vids and a Zs190 swapped Vader as well , AttentionDeficit also is another good Grom stunt YouTuber . The Zs190 is an awesome swap but it

could be a little hairy to start out with that I think ,these bikes are small and handle differently than full size bikes so some experience riding the stock one might be advisable but thats just my opinion.That said i have the Zs190 swap on my radar for the future, hopefully this Spring or Summer .

[kirbo7106]

I saw that there will be more tariffs coming soon. If it goes like they say, add 25% to the cost. Which comes out to $275-$325. In Chinese mod parts,that’s a lot of cool bling! Like RedCrowRides said, starting out on a ZS 190 might be a little hairy! AND also like RedCrowRides, I have a ZS190 on the wishlist!

I know what you’re thinking! Why doesn’t RedCrowRides make videos!!! That would be AWESOME! :clap:

Enjoy the Ride!

[RedCrowRides]

RedCrowrides has a GoPro Hero3 , old and out of date but it works.Or, at least it would if RedCrowRides would read the book, and then figure out how to upload to YouTube, lol.


Seriously, I finally got my mic adapter and mic in, and got mounts centered up on all 3 of my helmets so "hopefully" I can make some Videos soon .On a side note, I don't know why the fork brace won't fit for you guys if you ordered off my link, it fits mine perfectly I didn't have any trouble at all ., as my pictures here on this site show .I don't have any dial calipers but i'll see about getting a pair .

[Hellkitty]

Since most parts made for a Grom fit on the Hellcat and Redcrow was able to fit it on his Vader, I just assumed the fork brace would fit the Hellcat.....Wrong! The Hellcat fork tubes are about 43mm dia.

[scoot newb]

You watched there videos now you don't want to get its? why?

Those videos to me, made it look like a complete POS. I am not saying it is, and I am not saying there is anything wrong with their videos. It is just the way it came across to me.

With that being said, I am so done with tweaking this BBK-ed scooter I may place an order again.

[wlfpck]

May just be how they modified theirs. Haven't watched any of their videos.

Try some Grom moto vloggers. The grom plastics all swap. Most body parts will swap.

The big difference between a Grom and grom clone is that the engine is mounted with 3 bolts for the Grom (and SSR Razkull) and for the Grom clones... it's 2 bolts following the CRF50 engine mounting style.

The exhaust port on the grom clones are at an angle (see Honda Dax) which is the CRF50 style engine head. As such, that's why for the exhausts, people use the Honda Dax/Monkey/z50/etc. style exhaust.

Then the last thing being that the clones are carbed and the Grom is EFI. There are EFI kits available that a couple of people have installed on their bikes. Kits are pretty cheap and the handful of people that have installed it said it was pretty simple and that the "ECU" auto-tunes.

That being said... I believe the Venom 1st gen grom clone is the same bike as the Boom Vader. When you register it, it will be listed as Baodaio (or however it is spelled).

The Hellcat is made by Taotao. Different company, but still a clone.

[Chinabike]

Heard a few Grom loyalist now wanting clones for the ease of the zs190 swap.

[scoot newb]

i heard that too. The z190 swap would be the only mod I do... perhaps exhaust too.

[Chinabike]

Ya i'm glad i got one, so cheap for a bike that you can mod and just have fun with, and not worry about messing it up. I'm thinking about doing the swap next year. Then you thinking about the getting a Grom and keeping it stock.

[culcune]

Kronik Racing in Simi Valley, Calif. is a good source for parts for the ZS190 swap. I have spoken to the owner several times, and he is a straight up guy. Apparently, they are the largest Baodiao/Boom dealer in the country, but not necessarily mail-order meaning many locals are buying the Baodiaos to mess with, probably as guilt-free project bikes. Even a $3XXX Grom would be best left alone for resale purposes, IMO, while beating up a clone. He has his opinions on the Hellcat being inferior to the Baodiao bikes, which is why he doesn't carry them, but I would still buy a Hellcat over a Baodiao. He said they will also carry the Lifan KPmini 150, or at least he said that a few months ago, but I don't think they have updated their site to reflect this. When they carried the full-size SSR XF250, member dh bought his there and had a good purchasing experience, approximately 2 or more years ago.

[scoot newb]

Then you thinking about the getting a Grom and keeping it stock.

Definitely not thinking about a Grom but I have reconsidered ordering the Hellcat and a Z190 motor.

[wlfpck]

I'm a big fan of the Icebear Fuerza. When I was doing research on it, they had really good success with the Icebear Maddog (honda ruckus clone and ruckus clone with a 150cc).

This was from what I saw the most popular ruckus clone.

From there, when looking at dealerships... it seemed like Icebear had a lot more than the others. That's why I went with the Icebear. Plus, the dealership I bought it from included a Mikuni VM22 and bigger front sprocket with the purchase.

The only thing different is the headlight on the Icebear. To swap to the grom headlight, you just need the bracket for the headlight and speedo. Saw these go for $15 on eBay the other day. But I like the "dirtbike" style headlight with integrated turn signals so I don't plan on swapping it. :P

[EDuran]

Does anybody knows where to get new plastics for a BOOM VADER 125CC, I've been looking everywhere online and can not find a dealer to get then from.

[culcune]

Does anybody knows where to get new plastics for a BOOM VADER 125CC, I've been looking everywhere online and can not find a dealer to get then from.

Contact Pete at Kronik Racing...he is at Boom/Baodiao's So. Cal. warehouse a few times a week.
www.kronikracing.com