Hawk CDI

[Red Hawk]

I picked up a spare AC CDI from VMC to fill my OCD spare parts list.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chinese-AC-CDI-6-Pin-GY6-50cc-125cc-150cc-250cc-ATV-Scooter-Go-Kart-Moped/232391264992?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

It's a little smaller but it works.. Except the tac doesn't move at all. It's advertised as compatable to the Hawk spec and a few others. If I plug in the old CDI the tac works againe. Weird right? Any ideas ?

Next part to find is a voltage regulator.

[JerryHawk250]

You want to look for one that is tuned for the CG250 and not the GY6. https://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-CDI-Box-CG125-CG150-CG200-CG250-Honda-Chinese-ATV-Motorcycle-Go-Kart-UTV/352315572422?hash=item5207a500c6:m:mxyrF_FhiomoEFa ADTqoISw:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true

[Red Hawk]

Thanks JerryHawk250 will do !

[NzBrakelathes]

You bought a $1.50 unit from China markets (sane thing)
I actually bought a $20 unit from my Chinese factory who custom make high quality CDI
Even the guys here in China spend about $5 locally to get a half decent one
The price tag says it all

[NzBrakelathes]

You want to look for one that is tuned for the CG250 and not the GY6. https://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-CDI-Box-CG125-CG150-CG200-CG250-Honda-Chinese-ATV-Motorcycle-Go-Kart-UTV/352315572422?hash=item5207a500c6:m:mxyrF_FhiomoEFa ADTqoISw:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true

That’s an AC square plug connector
He bought the DC roundish plug connector
Kinda different there
Also all the GY6 CB CG have the same bump on the flywheel and length so timing and curve is all the same, better off with no rev limit or a decent quality and I don’t suggest altering timing as things can go wrong quick unless you really know that you’re doing

[Plump Kibbles]

Hey guys - newly assembled KTM orange X-Pro DLX version here! Not sure - but I'm almost positive this is a Hawk 250 (229cc LOL) with a little less weight and came off the truck about 90% assembled. No liquid cooling; all air cooled.

So - on the topic of the CDI boxes.. I got one of the blue ones that you can grab on Amazon for a little bit of nothing; and it works! AC CDI - the 'racing' bit I'm sure does absolutely nothing. Pretty sure I smelled burnt rice afterwards (HA!)..

Anyway.. LOVE the bike, tons of fun already. Just waiting to get into the DMV to get my bike registered. From VA btw - small little town just outside of WV; spare the jokes, I know them all.

@NzBrakelathes: You were the only person I saw online upon Googling the CDI boxes - and noticed you stated that all the GY, CB, and CG engines are the 'same' in terms of timing and such. So, does that mean (obvioulsy vertical or horizontal) that, let's say my bike is AC, and I grab another 'unlocked' CDI like I have (lets say the orange one) - is the 'mapping' the same across the board for horizontal and vertical engines for these 'performance' boxes?

I will have to note: upon a cold start, she don't wanna run.. takes a few good cranks to get the bike going, but after it warms up she's good. Maybe the 'racing' CDI is a little much for it? Can't see how though; just a simple circuit. . .

I'm going to play with the carb tomorrow and get my mix down; didn't adjust like an idiot after changing carb and new high-flow filter. Already replaced the PZ30 with a Mikuni, changed 'break in' oil before even cranking the engine, and removed the SAI air system and popped a blocker on the exhaust port.

Just an FYI to anyone reading this wondering about the CDI's... on the smaller plug, there will be two wires if AC, one if DC. And some oddballs here and there will have rounded plugs for AC / DC style connectors - but that's a pretty specific situation.

[Bruces]

Did you adjust your valves ? That will help with the cold starting .
Megadan did a few tests with different cdi’s ,not sure where it is but it’s on this site somewhere .

[Plump Kibbles]

I haven't done anything to the valves just yet. Re-tuned the mix and it seems to be running much better; no backfire on down-rev.

Although - I'm not exactly sure if I have a cat converter or not. At the first bend of the header pipe, just after, there's what appears to me to be a resonator? But, I don't have welding equipment or the know-how to weld so I may replace with a decatted exhaust sometime. I also did not receive any spark arrest screens on my muffler; and not only that, the muffler looks like something from a Ninja or Jigster lol.. Love the sound with the db silencer out, though. Much deeper! I removed the evap valve crap too; just in the way.

Back to the valves - I may or may not... I'm not sure if the valves are the problem more than the mix being out-of-whack after changing carbs and intake filters. Pretty neat trick to adjusting the mix too - raise the idler, then move the mixing screw in until it bogs - then slowly back it out and listen for the highest rpm through the adjustment. Too far either way and the bike may stall or sputter. Also picked up an iridium plug - 12k rpm - before I was topping out at maybe around 10k before the limiter kicks in. Got up to 70 just a little bit ago... man I wish I could just add a 6th gear instead of swapping the engine.

Would the valves also have something to do with (before I adjusted mix) after getting it to start, maybe 5 times or so, on a cold start mind you, 3/4 throttle is okay; the bike kicks nice and solid. But, if I hit WOT - it bogs out and stalls from idle ~1500rpm. I'm done with my adjustments and after taking it for a ride, I noticed I was popping up the front tire! I don't have, or haven't yet, changed the sprockets or chain. My X-Pro seems to be maybe a little 'higher class' than the Hawk? I didn't have the front sprocket out of alignment like I've seen online.. or maybe it was just a bad batch from the factory.

Filter I got was from Amazon, like most everything comes from now-a-days:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WGS8CQT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

CDI that I'm using: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H6WSJ2Z/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

^^^^ MUCH, MUCH better low end torque

And here's some 10 dollar brush guards as well. Actually not bad at all! cheap, flimsy plastic; but does the job! And if they break off - meh, 10 bucks lol
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073P3JH7F/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I'm getting back into the dual-sport adventures - I was living in Las Vegas NV before the pandemic and had a GS650 BMW. This X-Pro is WAY BETTER than that BMW; by miles. Way cheaper as well! I just have to adjust to having a 250cc, well 229cc but she goes! That GS650 was about 500lbs filled up.. and then, rolling over some logs, stupid me kept going, dumped the bike, then it bounced off my leg crushing my ankle between some rocks - but didn't break -_-

Thanks for the info and reply! I'll have to take a look at the valves one day. Although, I noticed there was some head sealant around where it separates. Most of what I have researched about the valves is on the Hawk, and I do have a Zongshen as well. But, there doesn't seem to be any sealant on the Hawk engines.. or maybe I'm just wrong and don't know. I'll report some results soon!

[franque]

It depends on if it's a pushrod or ohc. If it's ohc, there are two caps that unscrew, rather than the entire cover if it's pushrod. What looks like it's a cover (if ohc) is an integral part of the head, if you remove it, the head needs to be retorqued, and you won't be able to adjust the valves anyway, as the rocker arms are in that part of the head.

[Plump Kibbles]

It depends on if it's a pushrod or ohc. If it's ohc, there are two caps that unscrew, rather than the entire cover if it's pushrod. What looks like it's a cover (if ohc) is an integral part of the head, if you remove it, the head needs to be retorqued, and you won't be able to adjust the valves anyway, as the rocker arms are in that part of the head.

Kind of 100% positive it isn't the push rods or cam.. new engine - apart from the break-in. And I haven't even taken it off road that much yet due to the spark arrestor not being there.

I did just have it out for a bit - went to a field and rod some hills; not bad. No apparent issues that I can tell. The filter I posted a link to may not be the best filter though. I tried it compared to the filter that came with my Mikuni and everything works well, but WOT with the other cone or pod filter seemed to leave the engine gasping for some air.

Back to why I originally posted: I'm going to swap out for the stock CDI and see if there's any difference in starting from cold. If so - may return, may keep, idk. Does anyone happen to know if the stock CDI's are limited?

[franque]

I was talking about valve adjustment, not providing a diagnosis.

Additionally, these bikes aren't shipping with an intake port that can outflow the filter, the filter isn't your problem.

You could be actually having too much flow, so that the intake velocity drops off to nil when you crack the throttle wide open. You could try taping off the filter bit by bit to see if it improves.

It isn't an issue of the CDI being limited.

My guess is that the jetting still needs to be adjusted, but also, more importantly, the valves need to be checked and adjusted. Every Chinese bike needs this, both on initial assembly, and during/after break in. It needs to cool off overnight first though. It doesn't matter if you paid for an assembly service, even then, they never do that. Just check the valves, adjust the air idle mixture screw, and report back.

[Plump Kibbles]

May be true for most - but my case is as such:

Pod filter restricts the flow - foamie filter (Uni) that came with the Mikuni = no issues.

Air flow is key. The pod may do fine at lower RPMs but not at higher; which with mine, it's restricting the flow. For 6 bucks, couldn't have expected more but thought I'd give it a whirl anyway. I remember playing that game tuning my car and having to manually scale my MAF for the tune. BIG pain in the @$$.. Also have seen people bash their heads against the wall because their MAF o-ring was throwing CEL's. The smallest leak - who knew..


Valves will be taken a look at when I get a solid spec sheet on my engine. It IS a Zongshen 250cc but one of the 2020 models. I'm sure that has no effect to assembly and 'quality control'; or if anything is different. Like I said before - I haven't seen any reviews or anything on the X-Pro model. Obviously loads for the Hawk. The engine does look a little different than the Hawks - example: I don't have an oil filter, just a screen! And the fact that the book it came with doesn't list the model I have in the book... all the ones in my manual have liquid cooling and doesn't even have spark plug torque spec (10ftlbs). I don't have any bangs or clatter that would suggest any valve issues - but again never looked at them. Xmotos brand btw...

I'll grab what I can from the ol' internet on my engine if I can find anything on it. First Chinese bike - so I'm sure I'll find some things out of whack.

Not saying anyone is wrong, franque - and if I came off callus, apologies :tup:

My jets should be fine though - really picked up the power after changing the PZ30 out. Did not install any jets in the Mikuni - pre-installed. Main jet is 100 or 105, slow jet is 40 I believe.. if I remember correctly - the slow is 38 (PZ30) and it's a hair bigger on the Mikuni, I believe a 40. I almost immediately swapped out carbs due to being stuck running on half-choke.. One thing is certain - after the carb, filter, mix adjust, and 'racing' CDI, I can reach 70mph (eventually, jeez) and I'm starting to pop the front tire up going into second.. Think I'm getting close for now until the valves get some eyeball time.

I'll get back on tomorrow with more detail and pics of the engine and setup.

:thanks:

[franque]

You don't need the most up-to-date specs. It's 99%+ probable that it's a 165 or 166fmm, which would mean between .002-.004" clearance for the valves, a.k.a. .05-.1 mm. The Hawks don't strictly have a filter either. Technically, all of the Honda clones do have an oil slinger attached to the oil pump, but it's not strictly a filter per se. The mesh filter piece at the bottom of the engine is standard Honda/Honda clone.

[Bruces]

You mentioned the valves have no banging or clattering ,everybodies experience on the China valves have been they were too tight not too loose therefore no noise .Check your valves ,they are one of your problems .

[OneLeggedRider]

Check the #@%& valves! I can't believe you're even attempting to tune it without adjusting them first. Every China bike comes with them screwed down tight. 0.002" intake and 0.003" exhaust. Or for added piece of mind, 0.003" intake and 0.004" exhaust.

[Plump Kibbles]

Haven't had time today to do anything - plus the garage door opener broke last night, family member having surgery - not that important to have a pissing contest over the keyboard :lmao:

I'll let everyone know about the valves in a few days..

[Plump Kibbles]

Here's some shots of the bike.

https://ibb.co/xGt2XvP

https://ibb.co/GPKpTxR

https://ibb.co/yBYqRyh


That should clarify some things - I don't have to remove the tank, or the top to expose the valve adjustments. I do, however, need to know what torque to apply to the caps upon re-installation. Looks to be some Black RTV sealant around the seams; as well as the torque for the valve adjustment locks. But, not too sure if a socket / torque wrench will fit. Apart from having the three bolts holding the top on, there are a few other, larger bolts that I don't know what they connect to underneath - so there's the reason for not immediately thinking valves need to be looked into and, not f*****g anything up in the process. Because I'm not able to find much on this version of Zongshen 250cc......... So, fire away. Hold steady, down range.

This video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq2ntPQbeLw - was the only one I was able to find.. but no mention of torque specs for what you're locking...

[Bruces]

Your bike pictures show an ohc engine ,not sure about your “three bolts holding the top on “you don’t need to touch anything on the engine other than those two larger caps ,which are the covers for the valve adjusters .I am living off grid at my camp ,so I can’t watch your movie ,but the picture looks correct for your engine .You don’t need a torque wrench ,just remember how snug the locknuts are when you loosen them up and tighten them the same .

[Bruces]

Pretty sure Jerryhawks new streetbike has the same engine in it and he probably has a thread with all the numbers and specs you need to get out into the wilds of your garage and get it taken care of .

[Plump Kibbles]

“three bolts holding the top on “

Per one of Motocheez's valve adjustment videos (pushrod) - 'only 3 bolts holding the top on, that's weird' I believe is what was said..

I was pretty certain it was OHC - thanks for clearing that up!

No worries on the vid - just basically shows what everything else does, but just through the caps.

To the wilds of my garage!

:thanks:

[franque]

You don't need any silicone, and there's no crazy torque setting for the valve inspection caps. There's an o-ring in each cap, you just get them snug and it's enough with a normal 24 mm (if I remember correctly, possibly 22) wrench. It's strange that there isn't any mount holding the head in place, it almost looks like it's missing.

[JerryHawk250]

Your engine is a clone of the Honda CRF230f and SL230 engine. The video you posted is for your engine. The one Motcheez posted is for the CG engine. Here's a link the the Honda CRF230F to use as a guideline for the engine. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.dropbox.com/s/gxu4xf2i3v1ln0g/CRF230F_ServiceManual_2003-2013.pdf?dl%3D0&sa=D&ust=1599742150381000&usg=AOvVaw09otjUk0A8cFsAbWFh6oAz

[Deckard_Cain]

The 110-125cc pitbike motors like you'll find in TaoTao kids' ATVs uses this style of adjustment as well, being they too are OHC.

I just did my kids' New Cheetah 125 (actually a 120cc if you look at the engine!).

It was cake, easier than the Hawk, which was stupid simple. Plus, it made an amazing difference in how it started and ran. Engine has 24 hours of runtime.

[Plump Kibbles]

Alright!

Got the valves 'felt' for the space as OneLeggedRider had suggested .002 intake - .003 exhaust.

No kidding, this is the first I've experienced the valves tighter than a virgin! S#!T!

TDC was pretty easy on the X-Pro - there's ONLY the TDC line indicator..

Thanks for the insight on that, everyone! With my tuning background for cars, the valves sounded fine from what I could tell with the stethoscope method. BUT, none of the ROMs I've tuned had Chinese engines :crazy:

DECKARD CAIN! :lmao: Fellow Diablo fan; hells yeah! I'm not staying a while to listen though - I'm makin' ruts, son!

Also, first 3ft air jump today! Yep, I was running my GoPro whilst jumping.. Yeah - this is WAY lighter than that monster 650GS I was used to! ;)

Except, had to rip off (not actually rip..) the carb to set the mix (1.5 turns for now) due to SPACE.. jeez this thing has almost 0 tolerance for making adjustments...

Yep - valve caps had O-rings, were barely hanging on :wtf: and pretty odd as well; I used a 13/16 knuckle buster. Perfect fit.

How many miles before the next valve adjustments? I don't go by hours.. sitting on 101mi as of today after my test run. Also read oil change is about like a car, or seems like; 3k miles? maybe 2k?

Tomorrow will be moving my residency back to VA from NV - and hopefully titling the bike.. Have seen where multiple states have denied the Hawks..... So, we'll see!

Thanks again all!

Wubba lubba dub dub!!

[aaw611]

I would do the valves again in a few hundred miles, after you feel like its mostly broken in. I don't know much about your engine, but I would do the oil much more often. Its so cheap...why not?

[Plump Kibbles]

Gotcha - thanks aaw611!

Happily enough, my Zongshen took a whole 1 quart of oil on the change; and have another quart for next time.

[OneLeggedRider]

Check the valves and change the oil again at 500, then again at 1000 miles, and after that every 1000 miles. Maybe every 2000 if you're the type to rack up alot of miles.

[Plump Kibbles]

Awesome - I'm sure I'll be cracking miles off as soon as I get registered.. DMV trip was fun - nothing more than changing my residency this time but requested for multiple services! BS!!

Got my bike on insurance, going back today at 3PM to (hopefully) at least get going with registration.. I swear DMV's are a work of satan -_-