Calling on the ChinaRiders Think Tank (what chain?)

[Cravin01]

I just got in new JT front and rear sprockets and I plan on applying a good chain to it when I figure out what I'll stick with. I'll reveal the ratio and sprocket sizes and why I chose this path in the next video.

I also plan on including the RPS Hawk stock and preferred upgraded ratios to cover all the new "Hawksters" that follow our forums now and in the future, So all you Vet Hawk owners (Moderators included) please post what setup and why and I'll be sure and add a nod to you and your valuable experience to the Video!

I'm gonna need about a 130 link chain with possibly o-rings or a high tensile strength to last a good while. I'm sticking with the 428 but could go to 520 much later after I see how a good 428 set up lasts.

Price can go between $25 to $75 depending if it's worth the jump in price. I'd prefer everyone to kinda come to a unanimous agreement on a all-a-round GTG chain at a fair price for any bike. I really don't feel like guessing and lay my trust in the awesome members here at ChinaRiders!

[ChipToothy]

I just got in new JT front and rear sprockets and I plan on applying a good chain to it when I figure out what I'll stick with. I'll reveal the ratio and sprocket sizes and why I chose this path in the next video.

I also plan on including the RPS Hawk stock and preferred upgraded ratios to cover all the new "Hawksters" that follow our forums now and in the future, So all you Vet Hawk owners (Moderators included) please post what setup and why and I'll be sure and add a nod to you and your valuable experience to the Video!

I'm gonna need about a 130 link chain with possibly o-rings or a high tensile strength to last a good while. I'm sticking with the 428 but could go to 520 much later after I see how a good 428 set up lasts.

Price can go between $25 to $75 depending if it's worth the jump in price. I'd prefer everyone to kinda come to a unanimous agreement on a all-a-round GTG chain at a fair price for any bike. I really don't feel like guessing and lay my trust in the awesome members here at ChinaRiders!



I ordered the JT 428 heavy duty 128 links for $19 with shipping, have logged over 3,000 miles on the stock chain with no ill signs so I'm waiting awhile to put the JT on until I do all my performance mods in February. Did 2 hours of dirt today, it's a good quality stock chain on the Storms.

[Cravin01]

Thanks ChipToothy, it's noted. O-ring or non O-ring? I really want a general consensus on these chains or if it really even matters much.

[Mudflap]

DID Oring chain if you want one that will last a very long time.

[Cravin01]

I actually have that chain saved but wasn't wanting to say. Thank you Mudflap it is noted, I was hoping that one would make the list.

[ChipToothy]

Thanks ChipToothy, it's noted. O-ring or non O-ring? I really want a general consensus on these chains or if it really even matters much.


I'm not sure anyone makes an ORing in 428?, I didn't see any in my shopping around. My JT is the Black Steel HDR2, it's a very well made looking gizmo. Not trying to sell anyone on it or anything, just noting the build quality.

[timcosby]

got 3k on the oem chain and still have plenty of adjustment left. may change it at 10k just for shits and giggles.

[culcune]

Dig through one of member ARH's threads about his age-old chain treatment he does with any and all chains.

[Cravin01]

I figured it was covered, I'll see what i can find. Thank you for your input Timcosby & culcune.

[Megadan]

I just got in new JT front and rear sprockets and I plan on applying a good chain to it when I figure out what I'll stick with. I'll reveal the ratio and sprocket sizes and why I chose this path in the next video.

I also plan on including the RPS Hawk stock and preferred upgraded ratios to cover all the new "Hawksters" that follow our forums now and in the future, So all you Vet Hawk owners (Moderators included) please post what setup and why and I'll be sure and add a nod to you and your valuable experience to the Video!

I'm gonna need about a 130 link chain with possibly o-rings or a high tensile strength to last a good while. I'm sticking with the 428 but could go to 520 much later after I see how a good 428 set up lasts.

Price can go between $25 to $75 depending if it's worth the jump in price. I'd prefer everyone to kinda come to a unanimous agreement on a all-a-round GTG chain at a fair price for any bike. I really don't feel like guessing and lay my trust in the awesome members here at ChinaRiders!

There is a lot to cover here, so I will throw in my 2 cents on each subject (very big 2 cents).

Gearing/Ratios: To start, one thing needs to be considered with gearing changes and the various types of bikes out there. The rear tire diameter changes the effective overall ratio of the bike as it goes down the road.

Example. A Hawk with the ubiquitous 17/45 combination on a stock 110/100-18 tire. To match the exact same effective gearing on a Storm with it's smaller diameter 110/90-17 rear tire would require 3 less teeth on the rear sprocket or a 17/42 combination. In fact, for the Storm and most of the other 17 inch wheel bikes a fairly consistent rule of thumb to compare gear ratios is to take off 3 teeth from the rear sprocket count of a Hawk.

What I consider ideal? That really comes down to use of the bike - trail or street, weight of the rider and equipment, terrain (lots of big hills etc).

If purely off road grunt is desired, the stock 15/50 of the Hawk is hard to beat.

I have found the best 50/50 ratios to be around 17/47 give or take a tooth out back.

The 17/45 is so popular because it makes the Hawk an effective road and off-road bike, but at this point it definitely favors the road just a bit more.

My personal favorite for road and highway use is the 17/43. This gets the revs down in 5th gear, allowing the bike to cruise at 60mph with ease though it can struggle with bigger hills and strong head winds. Any lower than this is not likely a good idea for bigger guys or people that pack their bikes with lots of gear. You also lose a lot of the pep in the lower gears, making it not very good for trail use beyond your basic dirt path or back road.

One trick myself and Jerry have both kind of taken to doing is finding a rear sprocket ratio paired with the largest front sprocket best suited for road use, and then if needed/desired swapping out the front sprocket to a lower count. Ex: I ran a 17/43 around town most of the time, but if I decided to go run a trail or have a bit of fun I would swap out the front for a 15 tooth, which gave me the same effective ratio as a 17/49. Front sprocket swaps are much easier to do compared to the rear, usually only taking about 10 minutes tops.

I repeated this same trick with my 520 conversion, opting for a 13/35 (same as a 17/45), and I have a 12 tooth front sprocket, which when installed gives roughly the same basic ratio as said 17/49.

Thanks ChipToothy, it's noted. O-ring or non O-ring? I really want a general consensus on these chains or if it really even matters much.

That's a tall order as no two people really agree on any given point, especially with chains.

O-Ring vs. Non O-ring. I prefer O-rings. I have found them to generally survive longer than their counter parts in equal conditions. Others have found the opposite to be true. Are they worth the price difference? That is a matter of opinion. I think the key here is to not cheap out on your chain in either case.

My top 3 brands = EK, RK, and DID. In either O ring or non.
For a 428 chain setup 128 or 130 links.
For a 520 chain setup, 100-104 links.

If you shop around and look for good deals you can get a great O ring chain for about $60-70. Also sometimes deals in unlikely ways. Example; My 520 chain is a DID VX2 (X-ring chain) that I purchased for a mere $62. The catch was that I bought a 120 link chain, which because of supply and demand reasons was actually 15 dollars cheaper than the length I actually needed. All I had to do was shorten it.

On my last Hawk, I ran an EK SROZ (O ring) 428 chain for about 3000 miles before I decided to convert it to a 520 chain. I ran that chain from day 1 mile 0, and it was still in perfect shape, and the sprockets were also barely showing signs of wear.

Now, I should also issue a disclaimer. I am obsessive about maintenance, and this is no different with chains. I kept a 500 mile cleaning and lube schedule for road use, and I also would give my chain a quick spray of lubricant after riding in the wet the previous ride. If I used the bike off road, I would generally clean it at the end of that day. In the end, no matter what type of chain you use it comes down to how you care for it that can really determine how long it will last. A well cared for standard chain should last thousands of miles. O-ring chains are definitely much more forgiving to chain care negligence, which is likely one big reasons they are standard on most OEM bikes these days.

As for the 520 chain swap...there is nothing inherently wrong with a 428 chain in these applications (Storms, Hawks, etc). It is my own opinion, and of a couple others, that the 428 chain is borderline on the weak side given the weight and intended use of these bikes. Look no further than the CRF230F, which isn't that much more powerful and close to the same weight, which comes from the factory with a 520 chain. Think of it like going from just strong enough to slightly overkill.

Ok, I am done for now even though I could say more. My 2 cents turned into 2 bits. ;)

[Cravin01]

I was hoping you would chime in and I got plenty... Well Dan you should know that most of what you said has been well thought through and I have came to the same conclusion. To me a a good strong chain should allow a quick switch of a front sprocket to allow a good commuter set up to something to tear up the trails while accounting for clearance for the front sprocket and chain. I set the chain price to cover a o-ring and venture in to a x-ring and see where it led too. You have satisfied my curiosity to the fact that i'm on the right track. Thank you once again!

[Megadan]

I was hoping you would chime in and I got plenty... Well Dan you should know that most of what you said has been well thought through and I have came to the same conclusion. To me a a good strong chain should allow a quick switch of a front sprocket to allow a good commuter set up to something to tear up the trails while accounting for clearance for the front sprocket and chain. I set the chain price to cover a o-ring and venture in to a x-ring and see where it led too. You have satisfied my curiosity to the fact that i'm on the right track. Thank you once again!

A fun little tidbit, at least from my own experience, when it comes to front sprocket fitmet/clearances. My 13 tooth 520 sprocket and chain actually clear a little better than the 17 tooth 428 setup. It's just slightly smaller in diameter, even with the bigger chain, and cleared with nary a fuss. That said, a 14 tooth 520 sprocket/chain will likely not fit, at least not without serious work to clear it, hence why I stuck with a 13.

Honestly, if you add up the price difference between the sprockets and the chains, assuming you were changing both front and rear sprockets, you can upgrade to a 520 setup for just about the same price. Lets look at the 17/45 428 combination vs 13/35 520 both in O-ring. All prices currently on Amazon.

13/35:
Front Sprocket JTF328.13 - $12
Rear Sprocket JTR279.35 - $20
DID 520 VX2 Chain - $70 (nice round number).
Total: $102

17/45:
Front Sprocket JTF259.17 - $11
Rear Sprocket JTR269.45 - $25
DID 428 VX2 Chain - $70 (literally the same price).
Total: $106

Just food for thought if you are going to go to town and do both sprockets and a chain. ;)

[Cravin01]

Thanks Dan and no thank you because I already have 428 sprockets, :doh: I guess I can go down the 428 road for now and save the 520 conversation for the future. I still need a really good go too chain that can handle a front sprocket switch with little stretch for a acceptable amount of time at a fair price! This has been very helpful.

Looks like the DID chains are a favorite in any ring type.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Thanks ChipToothy, it's noted. O-ring or non O-ring? I really want a general consensus on these chains or if it really even matters much.
I don't think I've gone on a chain rant for a year or more. The chain that comes with the bike is an unknown quantity. It is either a junk quality chain on its way to the dumpster from the first day you go for a ride, or it's a so-so quality chain hampered by low quality lubrication. So two low cost solutions. The cheapest way to go is to clean the old lubricant out of the old chain with kerosene or gasoline, then, after it is dry, cook it in some kind of sticky grease, like CV joint grease, or in a bath of Gulf Canning Wax laced wit a healthy dose of colloidial graphite. That's what I've used for the last 50 years - wax with graphite. Another solution is to buy a higher quality chain, like Unibear 428 H chain, or similar from JV or others, and run it for a while. Then give it the same treatment...ARH P.S. Don't do this in the garage! Do the cooking and chain lubing away from the house and/or garage!!

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Thanks Dan and no thank you because I already have 428 sprockets, :doh: I guess I can go down the 428 road for now and save the 520 conversation for the future. I still need a really good go too chain that can handle a front sprocket switch with little stretch for a acceptable amount of time at a fair price! This has been very helpful.

Looks like the DID chains are a favorite in any ring type.Another chain that people on here have been happy with is Uni-Bear 428 H.

[Cravin01]

Thank you ARH, noted and as always thank you for your insight,I will look at that chain also as it has not caught my attention. I am leaning toward a new chain upgrade and not looking to prolong this "so-so chain" but plan to size and carry it as a backup should anything go south while out and about.

I know most this information is old hat for a lot of you Vets who have traveled this road but for a lot of us it's a new journey and you guys have paved a nice road for us to follow in sharing. thanks.

[JerryHawk250]

I got an oring chain due to I go through a good bit of mud, sand and water when I go off road .much easier to clean and maintain. This is the one I bought. It's a 136 link chain. Just cut it to the length you need. https://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-TTR225-TTR225R-1999-2004-GOLD-O-RING-DRIVE-CHAIN-428-128/123508730352?hash=item1cc1b1a9f0:g:RUsAAOSwnH1WY7m G:rk:6:pf:0

[Megadan]

I got an oring chain due to I go through a good bit of mud, sand and water when I go off road .much easier to clean and maintain. This is the one I bought. It's a 136 link chain. Just cut it to the length you need. http://www.ebay.com/itm/113213761584

That is simply the predecessor to the VX and VX2 chains. Standard O-ring. Nothing at all wrong with that. The EK SROZ chain I had is exactly that, a standard O ring, and almost double the price. This must be somebody selling over stock or old stock at a heavy discount. I noticed the seller also has 520V chains, 120 links, for about 10 bucks more. Great way to get a good chain at a cheap price.

[Mudflap]

The trick with Oring/Xring chains is not to oil them. Oil attracts abrasive dust and dirt that wear the chain and sprockets. Every month or so I put a tiny bit of oil on the Orings themselves but try to keep it off the rollers. No messy chain oil.

I have DID Oring chains on both my bikes and a DID Xring chain on my quad. Never have to adjust chain tension, even after 20,000 miles on the 200 and 420 hours on the quad.

DID and other companies do make Oring and Xring chains in the 428 size and they are plenty strong enough for any of the CG powered bikes. I use 428 on all my bikes.

[Cravin01]

I'll save that one to Jerry. At that price it might be the best bet at this point,Thanks for the link. I have found some professionals prefer to use straight Kerosine on ring chains as you had mentioned ARH so that goes on the list also.

[JerryHawk250]

I'll save that one to Jerry. At that price it might be the best bet at this point,Thanks for the link. I have found some professionals prefer to use straight Kerosine on ring chains as you had mentioned ARH so that goes on the list also.
When I bought my chain a few months ago it was only $29.99. The chain has held up well. Like Mudflap stated you don't want it all oily. Use a good dry lubricant chain wax like Dupont Chain Saver or PDL so dust, sand and dirt don't stick to it. I usually spray my chain after every ride., that way it is dry and ready to ride the next time. On a non-o ring chain ARH's paraffin wax method is the best way to go.

[Megadan]

This is my new favorite. Goes on and dries up very nicely. Chain stays a lot cleaner than it did with my old favorite Dupont Chain Saver.
https://www.amazon.com/Honda-Chain-Lube-White-Graphite/dp/B007XHPUW6

[2LZ]

Another chain that people on here have been happy with is Uni-Bear 428 H.

Indeed. I have Unibears on all my CB's. Great chains, especially for the cost.

[JerryHawk250]

This is my new favorite. Goes on and dries up very nicely. Chain stays a lot cleaner than it did with my old favorite Dupont Chain Saver.
https://www.amazon.com/Honda-Chain-Lube-White-Graphite/dp/B007XHPUW6
Good stuff :tup: I've used it before.

[NzBrakelathes]

My personal choice for air cooled stuff is a decent Chinese made 520 O ring chain, Uni Bear or Choho (which is on the RX3 stock)

The RX3 or bigger Hp bikes a foreign made 520 chain, I had an AFAM onmy last bike and great where the Choho didn't last or perform all that well.

But yes I feel 520 chain on all is best

Hawk as well as the Magician all can run a 520 chain and sprockets and if needed I can supply

[Cravin01]

Well it looks like there are plenty of acceptable chains out there. I'll see which chain I can get for a good price between the Uni Bear, DID and the one Jerry linked.

I blindly picked Dupont Chain Saver to use on my bike, That seemed to be a good choice after all. I'll give the Honda stuff a run after this bottle goes empty


Thank you everyone I'll post what I buy soon.

[Megadan]

Well it looks like there are plenty of acceptable chains out there. I'll see which chain I can get for a good price between the Uni Bear, DID and the one Jerry linked.

I blindly picked Dupont Chain Saver to use on my bike, That seemed to be a good choice after all. I'll give the Honda stuff a run after this bottle goes empty


Thank you everyone I'll post what I buy soon.

Nothing at all wrong with the Dupont stuff. It works really well. I used it for quite a while.

[pete]

just buy a O-ring chain from a named manfacturer...

RK / DID / Tubaski and so on...


..

[humanbeing]

...clean the old lubricant out of the old chain with kerosene or gasoline...
Honda shop manual said w/ non-flammable or high flash point solvent. Gasoline is a low flash point solvent. Modern diesel fuel is good enough for that job if kero/ proper stuff isn't available.

[Emerikol]

Short and sweet for me. I used an RK 428 SO O-Ring Chain I got off Amazon for $60 and some change. I'm running a JT 17T front and a JT 39T rear at $9.46 and $17.68, respectively. I use the Hawk almost exclusively on-road, and that gear setup lets me just barely make it to 65mph on a good day, when the planets align, and with a significant tail wind. Generally, I cruise around 55'ish mph and the bike is happy. That's it!

[Cravin01]

Thanks Pete, Humanbeing and Emerikol. Now that I'm older and having access to information due to the internet, It's nice to be able to share knowledge as opposed to being young.. no internet and whatever oil I could find in my dads garage. Although that young part was pretty cool!

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Thank you ARH, noted and as always thank you for your insight,I will look at that chain also as it has not caught my attention. I am leaning toward a new chain upgrade and not looking to prolong this "so-so chain" but plan to size and carry it as a backup should anything go south while out and about.

I know most this information is old hat for a lot of you Vets who have traveled this road but for a lot of us it's a new journey and you guys have paved a nice road for us to follow in sharing. thanks.UniBear 420 H chain has worked real well for those who've used it. I checked it on Amazon yesterday - 135 links plus connecter for $20.00. DID is good chain as well, just more expensive. A quality chain has better rollers, better pins, much better riviting, better sideplates. It is also pre-stretched, which really means broken in under controlled conditions in cleansed oil at the factory. Because I don't know how good the factory oil is, I recommend cleaning it in kerosene or gasoline (away from the house, PULEEZE), warm the grease or wax, peferably in a double boiler, and cook the chain for 3 or 4 hours. Stir it around every half hour or so. Then hook one end of it and let it drip back into the pan. I used a straightened out wire coat hanger for this. I used canning wax with graphite added myself...ARH :)

[Cravin01]

Well, I decided to give it the best chance of lasting. this has great tensile strength and supposedly reduced stretching.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DID-428-x-130-Links-VX-Series-Xring-Sealed-Natural-Drive-Chain/321792359288?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Technical Specifications:


Brand: DID
Made In: Japan
Chain Pitch: 428
Chain Length (Links): 130
Master Link(s) Included with chain: Clip
Chain Color: Natural
Chain Type: Sealed
Chain Model: VX
Seal Type (if applicable): Xring
Seal Model (if applicable): X
Max Engine cc (Street): 350
Max Engine cc (Offroad): 250
Tensile Strength (lbs): 7420
Wear Index (if available): 2700
Chain Weight (if available): 2.66

Greater rigidity (7% higher than previous VM)
Higher rigidity creates smoother handling, reducedpower loss and quicker response
Highest value in all D.I.D series
D.I.D X-Ring has half the friction compared to O-Ring chain
Superior longer life than previous VM series
Replaces the Professional O-Ring V Series and the Premium X-Ring VM Series
Chains - Pitch

[JerryHawk250]

That will defiantly out last the stock chain.:tup:

[Cravin01]

I had a little over $20 in my paypal acct so I figured this might be a good place to put a little more into the bike and that extra $20 took the sting out. I'm also trying to avoid having to go to a 520 upgrade in the near future!

I make knife strops and sell them on Ebay, That helps fund my bike projects and knife addiction.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Leather-STROP-Straight-razor-Knife-Sharpening-Compound-Good-Ole-Strop/223282055686

[Sochin]

I don't have an o or x ring chain on my Hawk. But I've used this for years and tens of thousands of miles on my ZRX1100. It is simply one of the best anti corrosion and lubricators I've ever used........mean for the aerospace and airframe industry to prevent corrosion.

https://www.amazon.com/ACF-50-Anti-Corrosion-Lubricant-Compound-Aerosol/dp/B000P1C8UO

[ChipToothy]

Well, I decided to give it the best chance of lasting. this has great tensile strength and supposedly reduced stretching.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DID-428-x-130-Links-VX-Series-Xring-Sealed-Natural-Drive-Chain/321792359288?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Technical Specifications:


Brand: DID
Made In: Japan
Chain Pitch: 428
Chain Length (Links): 130
Master Link(s) Included with chain: Clip
Chain Color: Natural
Chain Type: Sealed
Chain Model: VX
Seal Type (if applicable): Xring
Seal Model (if applicable): X
Max Engine cc (Street): 350
Max Engine cc (Offroad): 250
Tensile Strength (lbs): 7420
Wear Index (if available): 2700
Chain Weight (if available): 2.66

Greater rigidity (7% higher than previous VM)
Higher rigidity creates smoother handling, reducedpower loss and quicker response
Highest value in all D.I.D series
D.I.D X-Ring has half the friction compared to O-Ring chain
Superior longer life than previous VM series
Replaces the Professional O-Ring V Series and the Premium X-Ring VM Series
Chains - Pitch


Nice find!