Rear brake issue

[BigDukeSix]

I am having an issue with my rear brakes. When I press the brake pedal, it feels like nothing happens. If I stand on it, I get a little bit of engagement but not much at all. However, if I pump the brakes 2 to 3 times, it works as it should.

My brakes were working just fine until I removed my rear wheel and put it back on after changing the tire. It looks like I put everything back where it belongs – I can’t visually see what the issue is, but I can’t ignore the timing of this issue presenting itself right after I took the wheel off and put it back on again.

I already tried adjusting the brake at the lever – didn’t help anything.
Any thoughts here? It might be something easy – I am new to wrenching on bikes. Any guidance you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

[JerryHawk250]

Have you tried bleeding the brake system?

[BigDukeSix]

Have you tried bleeding the brake system?

No. I hadn't thought to do it as the bike only has 400 miles on it - was working fine and I noticed no leaks or anything like that. Not sure what would have happened to need a bleed at this point, but I suppose it's worth a try.

[calvarez]

That's the first step when hydraulic brakes won't engage. Is there any chance you got grease/oil on the pads? And...I've actually seen this done, so don't think I'm being an a-hole, but...are you sure you have the pads the right way? I've seen someone put the metal side towards the rotor, and yeah, it had little braking power. Aside from that, most brakes have an "inside" and "outside" pad. I haven't done the rear on this bike yet, so don't know if it does, but very likely. Check that they are in the right place.

[BigDukeSix]

That's the first step when hydraulic brakes won't engage. Is there any chance you got grease/oil on the pads? And...I've actually seen this done, so don't think I'm being an a-hole, but...are you sure you have the pads the right way? I've seen someone put the metal side towards the rotor, and yeah, it had little braking power. Aside from that, most brakes have an "inside" and "outside" pad. I haven't done the rear on this bike yet, so don't know if it does, but very likely. Check that they are in the right place.


I'm thinking it's not grease or oil on the pads since pumping the brakes temporarily corrects the problem.
I assume the pads are on correctly as per your suggestion because I never took them off and they used to function well. This part of the equation didn't change. When I took the rear wheel off, the caliper kind of dropped (it seems to need the wheel to hold it in place). But when I put the wheel back on, I put the caliper right back where it was. I am pretty sure I got this part right.
I will try bleeding the system here in a few minutes - gotta finish up some work first. Will report back what happens.

[calvarez]

Pumping the brakes and then having them work is a common symptom of air. It all sounds pretty strange, so we're going to shoot out some stuff that might not make sense, because the whole problem makes no sense. When it's figured out, we'll slap our foreheads and wonder why we didn't all think of that first.

Humor me and look in there and make sure you actually see both pads and that they look to be in the correct place.

[NzBrakelathes]

Sounds like caliper or pads missalignd or not fitting together and twisting
Photos plz

[rjmorel]

If all you did was take rear tire assembly off and did nothing to the brakes then there may not be anything wrong with the brake. Try pumping the brake pedal a bunch of times as far as it will go with your hand with every thing assembled back together.
Sometimes the brake pads get forced open the maximum travel away from the rotor when trying to put them back on the rotor. The brake fluid is forced up into the reservoir and it takes several pumps to get the pads moved out to where they are touching the rotor. Once they are forced out against the rotor they should work and not need the pumping. Unless somehow air got in the system. Which doesn't sound like in your case happened. rj

[BigDukeSix]

I wound up working pretty late tonight and didn't get a chance to look at the bike. Will check it out tomorrow afternoon and look at the things you guys mentioned.

[fjmartin]

Just make darn sure that the front portion of the brake bracket which has a chunk of square metal is slid into the rail on the swingarm. If not slid in there then things can move and twist. I've seen a guy with a bike who had done this and things went very badly for his bike....destroyed rotor and pads!

[pete]

if they work after pumping them a few time = Air in the system...

the only other possabiliy that would need pumping is pads returning to far
but i can't think of any reason that would / could happen...

so back to air in the system...

Bleed them..... If by chance that dose not work... master cylinder maybe..

I may only have 400 miles on it... But remember..
it's a chinese bike put togeather on a assembly line in china by chinese..




.

[BigDukeSix]

Well I made things worse.
When I tried taking the top off of the master cylinder to bleed the brakes, I discovered that the screws holding it on are made out of the softest metal on earth – or maybe cheese. I’m not sure. I got one off then stripped the other – have never seen a screw this soft before. So I ran down to the store and bought some drill bit that is supposed to bite into a stripped screw and pull it out but that wound up just boring a nice dish shaped indentation into the screw and now the top of it is nice and smooth and shiny :doh:. Interestingly, both of my next door neighbors are named Bob. One of them used to be some sort of mechanic so when he gets home I’m going to have to see if he can fix what I have apparently broken.
This is why I have two bikes…:wtf:

[calvarez]

Yeah, some of the screws on this thing are soft. I guess that does prevent the aluminum hard bits from being the sacrificial part.

[rjmorel]

Any update BDsix on brake? rj

[sqwert]

Rotor bent during tire change?

[BigDukeSix]

No update yet. I live in Montana so as this isn't prime riding season here. I have just kind of let this project sit as I'm frustrated by it and can't ride the bike right now anyway. Will probably pick it up again in the next week or two. Will post again when I make some progress.

[Bruces]

Just a very very minor correction for you ,the screws and bolts are not made out of cheese ,they are however made out of margarine of the “I can’t believe it’s not butter “variety .There is no milk harmed in the making of those screws and bolts ,just a little plastic .

[NzBrakelathes]

No update yet. I live in Montana so as this isn't prime riding season here. I have just kind of let this project sit as I'm frustrated by it and can't ride the bike right now anyway. Will probably pick it up again in the next week or two. Will post again when I make some progress.

I was in Montana a couple few months back - light snow that morning and YEAH I wouldn't call that riding season either lol.

[dannybiker]

I'm having a recurring issue with the back brake on my bike. It keeps jamming on.
It happened first about a year ago luckily on a short ride near home. The bike started to feel more and more gutless and finally I twigged it wasn't the engine but the brake. When I stopped the rear disc was so hot it had changed colour and was smoking. I could feel the heat radiating from it through my pants.

I immediately checked the pedal and master cylinder both seemed to be solid. I unbolted the master cylinder and checked all the linkages and the problem had disappeared. The bike went great for a couple of months then mid ride the bike started to slow and I immediately stopped to check the brake. Once again the rear disc was steaming. I unbolted the master cylinder and the brake released. Everything was fine for another couple of month riding then a month ago it happened again mid ride. I had noticed the pedal was really hard at the start of the ride and so pushed it really hard a couple of times and suddenly it seemed to unstick and the brake released and everything was fine.

When I got home I took a close look at the master cylinder and under the rubber cover where the pedal pushes the piston the cylinder walls had a coating of rust. The piston had jammed in the rusty cylinder jamming the brakes on.

Lots of CRC later the piston was moving freely again. Could this be the problem? Rust seizing the piston until a few good jabs of the pedal free things up for a while.

I'm going to strip the whole set up this weekend as I'm a bit nervous going on long rides until I'm sure its 100%.

[NzBrakelathes]

I'm having a recurring issue with the back brake on my bike. It keeps jamming on.
It happened first about a year ago luckily on a short ride near home. The bike started to feel more and more gutless and finally I twigged it wasn't the engine but the brake. When I stopped the rear disc was so hot it had changed colour and was smoking. I could feel the heat radiating from it through my pants.

I immediately checked the pedal and master cylinder both seemed to be solid. I unbolted the master cylinder and checked all the linkages and the problem had disappeared. The bike went great for a couple of months then mid ride the bike started to slow and I immediately stopped to check the brake. Once again the rear disc was steaming. I unbolted the master cylinder and the brake released. Everything was fine for another couple of month riding then a month ago it happened again mid ride. I had noticed the pedal was really hard at the start of the ride and so pushed it really hard a couple of times and suddenly it seemed to unstick and the brake released and everything was fine.

When I got home I took a close look at the master cylinder and under the rubber cover where the pedal pushes the piston the cylinder walls had a coating of rust. The piston had jammed in the rusty cylinder jamming the brakes on.

Lots of CRC later the piston was moving freely again. Could this be the problem? Rust seizing the piston until a few good jabs of the pedal free things up for a while.

I'm going to strip the whole set up this weekend as I'm a bit nervous going on long rides until I'm sure its 100%.

It might pay worst case to replace the master cylinder if you can't 100% repair it - I can supply if needed or CSC

[calvarez]

You definitely should replace the master cylinder. It's probably pretty cheap.

[BigDukeSix]

You definitely should replace the master cylinder. It's probably pretty cheap.

Yeah, it's like $58. Not terribly cheap, but not the end of the world either. Been focusing my efforts on putting a batwing and lowers on my other bike - will get back to this eventually before riding season...

[fjmartin]

This issue can occur if the pedal adjustment is too tight. This means that the brake can drag, building heat and then the fluid will expand. As it expands it rubs even more and creates more heat and expands more....until it can seize Eventually it will boil the fluid, glaze the rotor and crack up the pads. You need to check the recommended minimum pedal throw before engagement of the plunger into the master cylinder. If you open the fluid reservoir, check that it's still clear-ish. It can turn black when it gets overly hot.

[NzBrakelathes]

Yeah, it's like $58. Not terribly cheap, but not the end of the world either. Been focusing my efforts on putting a batwing and lowers on my other bike - will get back to this eventually before riding season...

I can supply a master to your door $39.50 via postage from china
Just saying etc

[dannybiker]

The latest update, I took the rear caliper off on Friday to discover 1. the pads were almost worn out and 2. one of the two posts which guide the pads and keep them aligned was totally seized in the caliper body. It took a hammer and a cold chisel to free it and some quite serious de-gumming and sanding to free everything up again. Definitely calls for some copperslip or similar when it all goes together again.

The jammed shaft explains the progressive drag issue, as soon as the pads heated up the solid shaft made everything worse instead of letting the pads move out they were held against the disk gradually getting hotter and hotter.

Good news, the local Honda agent was able to order me new pads without any hassles. evidently the same calipers are used on a whole range of their bikes.
More info when it's all back together and working properly.

[Azhule]

Don't know where you are at in the world, but if you have brake caliper pin/guide and lube issues, AGS Sil Glyde is another good option... in my area, the AGS brand is one of the few brands the Honda Dealerships trust to use on these kinds of brake jobs

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7651351

[NzBrakelathes]

That front pin the bolt one seizes easily
Found that on a few bikes
Pads are not expensive genuine and I can buy some cheap crap for under $3 but wouldn’t try or sell that - waste of time etc

[pete]

The first think you need to do is.....

if you have to pump it to get peddle pressure....
there a 99% chance there is air in the system..

get rid of the air before you spend money on parts you most lightly don't need..


..

[BigDukeSix]

The first think you need to do is.....

if you have to pump it to get peddle pressure....
there a 99% chance there is air in the system..

get rid of the air before you spend money on parts you most lightly don't need..


..

Yeah, this is what my plan was when I stripped out the screw on the master cylinder. Still haven't dealt with this yet, but it's -4 outside right now in the middle of the day and I think this is about the warmest it's going to be for the next week - so I figure I've got some more time to straighten it out :doh:.

[dannybiker]

That front pin the bolt one seizes easily
Found that on a few bikes
Pads are not expensive genuine and I can buy some cheap crap for under $3 but wouldn’t try or sell that - waste of time etc

As soon as I get my real estate licence and start selling houses I'm planning a serious order of parts from you.

Total career change at 50 might not be everyone's idea of fun but I decided now or never. Things are going well but cash is a bit scarce!

"Back" to the brakes, I reassembled them yesterday afternoon, and taking super care got the two screws out of the master cylinder and have bled the system. The brake fluid in the sight glass looked a little suspect so I pumped a lot of new clean fluid through before sealing it all up again. My little hint is get a small disposable syringe for filling the master cylinder. It is tiny, and at an angle which makes pouring in fluid impossible.

Now with the whole set up lubricated with silicon goop and all the threads and bushes shiny clean I've just got to wait for the rain to stop so I can go for a ride :clap:

[sqwert]

Yeah, this is what my plan was when I stripped out the screw on the master cylinder. Still haven't dealt with this yet, but it's -4 outside right now in the middle of the day and I think this is about the warmest it's going to be for the next week - so I figure I've got some more time to straighten it out :doh:.

When I lived in a Freezerville I kept my motorcycles in the living room. That's what real riders do.

[BigDukeSix]

When I lived in a Freezerville I kept my motorcycles in the living room. That's what real riders do.

I actually have my bikes in a heated garage. There's plenty of space and warmth to work on them. I just can't ride them.

It was -13 when I got up this morning, and they don't plow or salt the streets here so in addition to the cold temperatures, there's a nice sheet of ice and snow that has built up on all of the roads. They will put down some sand at the intersections, but otherwise we're on our own out here. Apparently for four months out of the year, this isn't a motorcycle friendly place. The rest of the year though it's great.

[sqwert]

I actually have my bikes in a heated garage. There's plenty of space and warmth to work on them. I just can't ride them.

It was -13 when I got up this morning, and they don't plow or salt the streets here so in addition to the cold temperatures, there's a nice sheet of ice and snow that has built up on all of the roads. They will put down some sand at the intersections, but otherwise we're on our own out here. Apparently for four months out of the year, this isn't a motorcycle friendly place. The rest of the year though it's great.

Mercy on you. I've lived in places where 4 months of tire chains were the norm. Most folks just rain studded tires. One or the other was required since the only paved road was the runway, and the planes had skis. You could get there by dog sled, too.

[dannybiker]

Surprise! The master cylinder is toast, rusted solid. I suppose this wasn't that much of a surprise but sadly not as easy to fix as the rusted caliper.
It's no real shock that I'll need to get a new one. Ali express does free shipping, so its just a 20 day wait away.
I have resolved to systematically work my way through the bike, stripping, cleaning and lubricating to try to head off any more moisture related woes.
BTW the ignition switch was stripped by a local auto electrician and is now functioning properly again.
I wonder what's next? I really need a garage! none of this would have happened if the bike didn't have to stay in a damp, leaky wood shed.

[BigDukeSix]

Back in business!

So the weather finally cleared up – it’s starting to get nice around here, and most of the snow has melted off of the roads. My son and I put the new master cylinder on today and bled the system. I went out for a ride and all is well with the RX3 again. I’m not sure how air got introduced into the system, but it seems to be gone now. I’m excited to have my bike back – am planning a trip tomorrow to celebrate.

Also – wanted to note. I wound up buying the master cylinder from Tako (NzBrakelathes). Shipping took a little while as expected (hey, it’s ground shipping from China), but Tako’s price was significantly cheaper than CSC’s. He was also great to work with – he handled his side of the transaction quickly and communicated well at key points including sending me a video of my parts before he boxed them up and shipped them out. I gotta say – normally, I would be leery about sending $$ via paypal to some guy in China I met on the Internet, but Tako is legit. I would trust him for future transactions no problem.

[NzBrakelathes]

Back in business!

So the weather finally cleared up – it’s starting to get nice around here, and most of the snow has melted off of the roads. My son and I put the new master cylinder on today and bled the system. I went out for a ride and all is well with the RX3 again. I’m not sure how air got introduced into the system, but it seems to be gone now. I’m excited to have my bike back – am planning a trip tomorrow to celebrate.

Also – wanted to note. I wound up buying the master cylinder from Tako (NzBrakelathes). Shipping took a little while as expected (hey, it’s ground shipping from China), but Tako’s price was significantly cheaper than CSC’s. He was also great to work with – he handled his side of the transaction quickly and communicated well at key points including sending me a video of my parts before he boxed them up and shipped them out. I gotta say – normally, I would be leery about sending $$ via paypal to some guy in China I met on the Internet, but Tako is legit. I would trust him for future transactions no problem.

I think your package got caught up in the USA - delay maybe due to snow?
Typically it is 2 weeks up to 3 weeks give or take a day.
Best was 8 day worst was 25 days but average has been 15 days.

DHL is about 5-7 days but small cheaper stuff that are not urgent is an over kill

Europe is 6-10 days that in fact is the fastest locations I have sent too, Germany was just 6 days!

[BigDukeSix]

I think your package got caught up in the USA - delay maybe due to snow?
Typically it is 2 weeks up to 3 weeks give or take a day.


Yeah, well the same weather that slowed down any shipments also kept me off the road so it all worked out in the end. Honestly, even up to yesterday there was too much slush on the roads to safely ride around. I am pretty sure the package got here a week ago - I was thinking it showed up within the window you told me it would. I appreciate your help.

[sqwert]

Also – wanted to note. I wound up buying the master cylinder from Tako (NzBrakelathes). Shipping took a little while as expected (hey, it’s ground shipping from China), but Tako’s price was significantly cheaper than CSC’s. He was also great to work with – he handled his side of the transaction quickly and communicated well at key points including sending me a video of my parts before he boxed them up and shipped them out. I gotta say – normally, I would be leery about sending $$ via paypal to some guy in China I met on the Internet, but Tako is legit. I would trust him for future transactions no problem.

Yes, Tako is legit. Always strives to please, at significant savings. I've bought from Tako several times and always a great online shopping experience, something I usually avoid. As far as RX3 needs, Tako is my first choice. That good.