Am I Asking For Too Much?

[kirbo7106]

Here’s my story...

About 7 months ago, the reality of turning 50 years old set in. What would make a GREAT 50th birthday present? How about a Grom clone?!? I looked around the internet and decided on a Hellcat from Family Go Karts. They have a 6 month lay-a-way plan and I would have it paid off in time for my birthday.

I work in an Operating Room in a small hospital in Florida. I rearranged my work schedule so I could have the 8th through 11th off from work. I ended up working 18 days straight before my vacation and then 11 days after my vacation!

Fast forward 6 months, I’ve paid off the Hellcat and it’s been shipped to the Tampa terminal of Saia Freight. I called the terminal and they confirm that my Hellcat is there! The terminal has pick up hours from 5am -10am Tuesday through Friday and 5pm - 10pm Monday through Friday.

I arrived at the terminal around 9pm on March 8th. They can’t find my Hellcat! I was told that I will have to call back on Monday and see if they found my bike. Really?!? WTF?!? How do you loose a piece of freight? I explained to John, the night supervisor, that this was my only opportunity to pick up my bike.

Every time I called the Tampa terminal I get some call center off site. I explained to them what happened. They put me on hold and talked to someone at the terminal. Yeah, the bike is sitting in front of the office!

On March 19th, after only a few hours of sleep, I get up at 4am and drive an hour to Tampa. After they load the bike on my trailer, I noticed a hole in the side of the shipping box, like maybe a forklift had hit it.
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It’s been raining on and off, so the forklift operator notes the hole on the bill of lading and I start on my hour drive home.

After I got home, I looked at the bike and found a box of ceramic tiles inside the shipping box!
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Apparently, a forklift didn’t hit the bike, a box of high speed, flying tile did!

Yesterday, March 23rd, I got my first opportunity to look the bike over. I can’t decide if the tractor trailer was involved in a crash or nothing was secured in the trailer! Along with a lot of cosmetic damage, the front wheel and swing arm were damaged and are unusable.
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Now, instead of getting a Hellcat, I have an unwanted Hellcat project! Happy birthday, right!?!?

[Whisky]

I would be pissed but I also wouldn't have left shipping Company until I inspected my bike. If there was any damage I wouldn't have accepted it. Hope all turns out good for you.

[Bruces]

I think a family go karts guy was on this site ,you might want to get in touch with him .

[Its_not_a_honda]

I mean "really!!". Why do so many have trouble with the shipping companies?!?!? We all want cheap shipping. I get it. At what point is it not worth it? China Bikes are not the only things being shipped. These companies are destroying other things too. How do they stay in business paying all the claims? My guess is they pay the people actually doing the "real work" hardly nothing. The higher-ups are soaking in the money and making enough in profits to offset the losses. They make their money and move on somewhere else before anyone realizes what happened to their company.

Pay the people doing the "real work" real money. This will get the quality that is needed. People will care more because they make more. If you loose a low paying job - so what? If you loose a high paying job - oh shit!


I hate your bike got destroyed. I know it is a bad feeling. Getting something new and finding it this way is not good. Go as high up the ladder as you can to get this fixed. Shipping company and wherever you bought it. This is the only way this kinda thing may get the attention it needs.

[JerryHawk250]

That is a shame that after you waited all this time and when you finally get the bike it's all busted up. I would request a new bike and enough tile to do the entire bath room. Lol I hope they care of it and get you another bike or at least all the replacement parts.

[scoot newb]

I would be pissed but I also wouldn't have left shipping Company until I inspected my bike. If there was any damage I wouldn't have accepted it. Hope all turns out good for you.


Famillygokarts, the woman I spoke with prior to taking delivery of mine told me to accept delivery no matter what. Which contradicts their liability form you have to initial and send back.

I hope you get it fixed @kirbo7106. Familygokarts has been horrible when it comes to resolving customer issues regarding damaged and defective merchandise.

[Bruces]

I really hate to say it ,but googling family gokarts gives you a very scary picture of a business who seems very dirty .Many horrible reviews .Any chance you used a credit card to make those payments ?

[scoot newb]

True. I looked at the BBB reports last night. They were all bad. The few positive ones were obviously fakes.

B.W. Incorporated (familygokarts)

https://www.bbb.org/us/mn/browns-valley/profile/gokarts/bw-incorporated-backer-wencel-inc-0704-14001779

If you get stuck with it there is a bright side. The way the front rim is damaged looks like it won't affect riding it. The spacer goes between that side and the fork if I'm not mistaken.

A new swingarm is $56 https://partskit.com/#/product/602757 (but partskit is known for bad service too)

A real Grom swingarm or one of these is just around $100 http://www.msx125accessories.com/honda-grom-msx125-swingarm

[Whisky]

I bought my bike at Venom Motorsports and they told me
to inspect bike before signing receipt otherwise
they would not cover any damage claims, I personally had very good experience buying through them.

[scoot newb]

I bought my bike at Venom Motorsports and they told me
to inspect bike before signing receipt otherwise
they would not cover any damage claims, I personally had very good experience buying through them.

I would think that's impossible. The delivery person would have to be willing to wait around until you unboxed it, disassembled the cage, unwired the front rim and other parts connected to cage and inspect every thing. Then if something was wrong, wait around to re-assemble the cage and box it back up.

I get it though, you could check for signs of damage to the box. For me the condition of the box was fine. It was only after getting everything out of the cage I started to find problems here and there.

[kirbo7106]

I really hate to say it ,but googling family gokarts gives you a very scary picture of a business who seems very dirty .Many horrible reviews .Any chance you used a credit card to make those payments ?

All of the payments were on my credit card. I will get in touch with them tomorrow.

[Whisky]

I would think that's impossible. The delivery person would have to be willing to wait around until you unboxed it, disassembled the cage, unwired the front rim and other parts connected to cage and inspect every thing. Then if something was wrong, wait around to re-assemble the cage and box it back up.

I get it though, you could check for signs of damage to the box. For me the condition of the box was fine. It was only after getting everything out of the cage I started to find problems here and there.

Everything was assembled , is all I had to do was put the handle bars on and I made the delivery guy wait while I un-boxed and inspected.
Sure I didn't look at everything but I did look at the most important things such as wheels, tires, engine, cosmetics. I paid for it so it better be what I paid for period.

[scoot newb]

All of the payments were on my credit card. I will get in touch with them tomorrow.

Make sure to 'print to PDF' your trouble ticket history with them and let your CC company look at it. So they can see fgk does nothing to address any problems except give the run around.

[kirbo7106]

True. I looked at the BBB reports last night. They were all bad. The few positive ones were obviously fakes.

B.W. Incorporated (familygokarts)

https://www.bbb.org/us/mn/browns-valley/profile/gokarts/bw-incorporated-backer-wencel-inc-0704-14001779

If you get stuck with it there is a bright side. The way the front rim is damaged looks like it won't affect riding it. The spacer goes between that side and the fork if I'm not mistaken.

A new swingarm is $56 https://partskit.com/#/product/602757 (but partskit is known for bad service too)

A real Grom swingarm or one of these is just around $100 http://www.msx125accessories.com/honda-grom-msx125-swingarm

The spacer goes on the disc side and the speedometer sensor goes on the damaged side. I will have to get a new wheel.

Before I would buy another clone swing arm, I would buy an aluminum one. Thanks for the link.

As for the BBB, I should have checked it out better. The Hellcat was probably fine until Saia got hold of it. The box of ceramic tiles, traveling at a high rate of speed, is what damaged the bike.

[scoot newb]

The spacer goes on the disc side and the speedometer sensor goes on the damaged side. I will have to get a new wheel.

Before I would buy another clone swing arm, I would buy an aluminum one. Thanks for the link.

As for the BBB, I should have checked it out better. The Hellcat was probably fine until Saia got hold of it. The box of ceramic tiles, traveling at a high rate of speed, is what damaged the bike.

You're right about the spacer. I wasn't thinking.

I made the same mistake as you - ordering from them. Neither of us were planning on a project bike but we got one. I planned on doing a z190 swap but after riding it for a bit, getting a better swing arm and shock has become a priority. There is a lot of slop with the stock one. So in a way if you were planning on doing upgrades, it's not too bad since that may be one of the first things you'd want to replace. At least that's how I'm trying to justify it. Cause it doesn't look like I'm getting anywhere with fgk.

Have you tried to start it yet or is it still in the cage? I wonder if the carb and speedo on yours is defective too.

Oh, also i was reading around about the aluminum swingarms, some are hollow others are solid.

[kirbo7106]

I bought my bike at Venom Motorsports and they told me
to inspect bike before signing receipt otherwise
they would not cover any damage claims, I personally had very good experience buying through them.

Yeah, I should have gone with Venom Motorsports! I really like the Hellcat, but not that much!

[kirbo7106]

Have you tried to start it yet or is it still in the cage? I wonder if the carb and speedo on yours is defective too.

Oh, also i was reading around about the aluminum swingarms, some are hollow others are solid.

My Hellcat is still in the cage. If I can’t get any help from Family Go Karts, Saia or my Credit card company, it will probably be put in my storage unit until the fall. I have a lot of “crazy” going on in my life right now and I don’t have the energy or money for another problem.

By any chance, did you ask Family Go Karts about their “60 Day Money Back Guarantee”? I would do that in a heartbeat!

[scoot newb]

My Hellcat is still in the cage. If I can’t get any help from Family Go Karts, Saia or my Credit card company, it will probably be put in my storage unit until the fall. I have a lot of “crazy” going on in my life right now and I don’t have the energy or money for another problem.

By any chance, did you ask Family Go Karts about their “60 Day Money Back Guarantee”? I would do that in a heartbeat!

I haven't. I believe there is a restocking fee involved and you pay for part of the return shipping. This would have left me with an even smaller budget to get cheap transportation ASAP.

Replacing the carb, chain tensioners and drivers side mirror got me riding 'safely' for around $45 out of pocket. But I still want them to come correct regarding the unresolved cosmetic and or non critical related defects/damage.

So your swing arm is actually broken?

[kirbo7106]

So your swing arm is actually broken?

When you start unboxing the bike, the front tire is wired between the crate and the rear swing arm of the bike. Whatever happened during shipping caused the front wheel to impact the swing arm right at the chain tensioner. It bent the threaded rod and collapsed the square tubing.

I could probably rig it to get by, but I would definitely replace it ASAP!

[scoot newb]

...collapsed the square tubing.

Crap

[Whisky]

The spacer goes on the disc side and the speedometer sensor goes on the damaged side. I will have to get a new wheel.

Before I would buy another clone swing arm, I would buy an aluminum one. Thanks for the link.

As for the BBB, I should have checked it out better. The Hellcat was probably fine until Saia got hold of it. The box of ceramic tiles, traveling at a high rate of speed, is what damaged the bike.


Partskit.com has front wheels. (Grom replicas) on sale for 35.bucks right now

[kirbo7106]

Partskit.com has front wheels. (Grom replicas) on sale for 35.bucks right now

Thanks!

[kirbo7106]

Who’s in my wallet? Capital One! And they are disputing the charges for my Hellcat!

I just got off the phone with Capital One and they are taking care of my problem! It might take a while.

I’ll keep you posted!

[Bruces]

Who’s in my wallet? Capital One! And they are disputing the charges for my Hellcat!

I just got off the phone with Capital One and they are taking care of my problem! It might take a while.

I’ll keep you posted!

I think that is the only way to purchase an internet bike ,unless it’s a local dealer ,use a credit card to protect yourself .

[culcune]

I hope you have good photographic evidence of all the damages.

[kirbo7106]

I hope you have good photographic evidence of all the damages.

I took pictures of all the damage and sent it to Family Go Karts. I have saved all my emails to them also.

[neltron]

Really bummed to hear customer service not being awesome for Family Go Karts... they've been super nice on the phone and easy to work with. I'm waiting on my Hellcat but it worries me if I have issues I'll foot the bill since they're giving you the run around.

[scoot newb]

I hope you get one without any damage.

[kirbo7106]

Really bummed to hear customer service not being awesome for Family Go Karts... they've been super nice on the phone and easy to work with. I'm waiting on my Hellcat but it worries me if I have issues I'll foot the bill since they're giving you the run around.

I hope you get a good one! What color did you go with? Keep us posted!

Enjoy the Ride!

[2LZ]

This sucks to hear about your issues and also, family go carts. They're "Local-ish" here in Vallejo and I was hoping for better service. The last thing we China Riders needs is another Manny.

[Douglass]

They're "Local-ish" here in Vallejo

Not to get off topic too much, but where abouts in Vallejo are they? I have been to GoKartsUSA in Benicia.

[2LZ]

Not to get off topic too much, but where abouts in Vallejo are they? I have been to GoKartsUSA in Benicia.

Whoops. My error. You're correct. GoKartsUSA in benicia.

[neltron]

I hope you get a good one! What color did you go with? Keep us posted!

Enjoy the Ride!

I got a blue one, I wanted white but they only had one at their store front fully assembled and wanted more money for it. I figured with the extra money I'd spend I could just buy new grom plastics for close to the same price. Hopefully it goes without a hitch but we will see.

[kirbo7106]

The last thing we China Riders needs is another Manny.

I thought the same thing! As soon as it started going sideways, I felt like it was Txpowersports all over again!
:doh:

[FamilyGoKarts]

Hey guys, Brad here from FamilyGoKarts.com. I usually try to follow up when our name comes up in the forum. I'm sorry I haven't responded sooner, but I didn't get a notice and just found this discussion today.

I'm really sorry to hear about all the problems you've experienced. The biggest problem we have in this industry, besides Chinese quality control issues, is shipping damage, and that is by far the number one issue we constantly deal with.

We recently switched from UPS Freight to Saia because of these problems, and we've been carefully monitoring them to see how it goes. For the most part, it has been much better, but there are still the occasional hiccups. So let me first thank you for reporting your experience in detail. I understand it takes a lot of extra effort to have to deal with a problem that never should have happened in the first place. Your report makes it easier for us to work on improvements both internally and in the industry as a whole. I definitely will be referring our Saia rep to this thread.

Secondly, please know that we really do try to make it right when things like this happen. However, we're generally at the mercy of the vendor/distributor and shipper when it comes to replacement parts, warranty concerns and shipping claims. Now, that's not to say we aren't sometimes to blame. I'll be the first to admit that we occasionally screw up support tickets and let a customer down. Sometimes we just get too busy with 'business', and an issue falls through the cracks. Other times, issues aren't cut and dried or easily resolved. And still other times, even though we solve the problem, we can't solve it as fast as the customer would like.

Nevertheless, this is not to try to offer excuses. A problem is a problem, and problems should be resolved. Customers expect to receive rideable products, not 'projects' as someone here has perhaps accurately called it. We get it. We want every order to go smoothly and every customer to be totally satisfied, and it's in that spirit that we try our best to fix every problem that comes up.

I wish I could say we always get it right... but we don't. So to you scoot newb and kirbo7106 and any others that we may have failed, I offer our sincerest apologies.

If you continue to have problems, and need to reach out, feel free to reply here and I will personally relay any input directly to the top or to the vendor or shipper. I'll do what I can to help.

Having said that, if you'll indulge me for a moment, I'd like to speak to the topic of FamilyGoKart's reputation that has been brought up in this discussion.

Competition in this industry is stiff (and sometimes even cutthroat), and margins are tight. Pile on quality control problems, crazy high shipping costs, delayed or damaged deliveries, and slow or uncooperative vendors and the challenges can be mush greater than most customers realize.

It's easy for businesses, especially online businesses, to seem impersonal and distant, but we do care very much about every customer and every order that comes through. We're a very real, albeit relatively small, family-owned business with around 20 super dedicated, hard-working employees that pour their hearts and souls into their jobs. We couldn't ask for a better group of people. Most of us are located in the tiny little town of Browns Valley, MN, but some are distributed across the US from California to Arkansas. And even though we may sell Chinese imports for the most part, every order placed with us helps to support real US workers and put food on the table for real families, adding to local economies from coast to coast.

We're a conservative, family-centric, God-fearing, US-loving bunch of folks, and we work hard to personify that culture to our customers. We understand that may not sit well with some people given the current political and social landscape, but it's who we are.

However, even though we're small, we are the largest online retailer for most import distributors with whom we have a relationship. Other dealers don't even come close. Our employees have served well in excess of 50,000 customers over the years and the vast majority have been satisfied. The last time we ran the numbers, we were in the 99.997% satisfaction range. So I take slight issue when people point out negative reviews they've found online.

Of course, we've certainly had our share of unhappy customers. And those customers are always the most vocal, seeking out any and every platform to air their grievances; even platforms of highly questionable business practices, of which we consider the BBB.

Most people think the Better Business Bureau is some kind of altruistic, non-profit organization that looks out for consumers' interests. In reality, the BBB is anything but fair and impartial, and it most certainly is not non-profit, although it does little to dispel that myth. The BBB is just another business, plain and simple, and it makes it's money by collecting passive reviews and then forcing real businesses to pay exorbitant fees and invest man hours in dealing with their paperwork all because a customer thought it was a good idea to file a complaint. We have a mighty low opinion of the BBB and consider it to have highly questionable business practices that border on extortion and do little if nothing to help businesses actually improve customer relations.

If you'd like to know more about some of our misfortunes with the BBB, check out this article on our blog:

https://www.familygokarts.com/blog/whos-afraid-of-the-bbb

It's a little dated by now, but the experience taught us a valuable lesson about dealing with the BBB.

The same is true of the myriad other so-called "online complaint sites" that only collect passive reviews. If you don't believe me, just spend a little time Googling some of them from a business perspective. They have literally destroyed businesses and ruined the lives of the people who owned them. They are shady, unethical sites that prey on consumers beset by the emotions of a deal gone bad and then use the content they milk from these people to blackmail businesses to pay huge fees to repair their reputation.

We do continue to respond to BBB complaints, but we do so only as a courtesy for customers that don't understand how the BBB is taking advantage of them. Basically, we place a higher value on trying to make customers happy than we do on stiffing the BBB. However, we much prefer to deal with customers via a valid, third-party, active review service or even an unbiased online forum like this one. There are plenty of reputable ratings platforms and legitimate review services out there to get to know a business's reputation. Google Business Reviews is one example. We use a third-party review system called Shopper Approved that lets customers rate our company and review the service we provide. And unlike online complaint sites, only verified customers are allowed to submit a review, and we see every review that comes through... and we respond when necessary to resolve any bad ratings.

For reviews from real customers, check out this page:

https://www.shopperapproved.com/reviews/FamilyGoKarts.com

There's also more information on that page about the difference between Passive and Active reviews.

Now, I said all that to say this; we really do care and we really do try. We never leave fake reviews anywhere. And we never leave a customer unhappy when they have a valid complaint. We don't have a magic wand that can fix every issue that arises, but we will do whatever we can do within reason to compensate a customer if a problem occurs. These machines are very expensive to ship, and everybody loses if one is returned and shipped twice. So we do our best to help customers correct any problems they might experience.

All we ask is that our customers also do what they can to help.

If you've read this far, I commend you! For those of you that have ordered from us, thank you for trusting us with your purchase, and thank you for supporting the families that make our company what it is. We genuinely appreciate your business!

And scoot newb and kirbo7106, please do follow up here if I can help with your issues in any way.

Sincerely,
Brad Holland
CIO - Director of IT
Backer Wencel, Incorporated

[scoot newb]

Yes, you have a disclaimer on your site about the BBB. The positive reviews are obviously fake. I urge anyone reading this to see for yourself. The negative reviews are spot on and match the lack of service I've been receiving.

It's been 2 weeks since I've taken delivery of the Hellcat and nobody there has done anything to get the bike up to Dot or State inspection standards. If I hadn't spent money and time it wouldn't even be running yet.

What are you going to do about this? How much longer should I wait before these problems are resolved?

Jeff should be able to fill you in on the problems. I can PM you the trouble ticket number if you'd like.

I mean really the weekly reply from Jeff always has some excuse about him 'not being in the office', so he is the only person assigned to handle problems? It is beyond ridiculous.

[psychprof]

Brad’s response was nice and detailed...but what matters are results. The time spent writing that post could/should have been spent resolving his (and other’s) problems with their orders.

[scoot newb]

Brad’s response was nice and detailed...but what matters are results. The time spent writing that post could/should have been spent resolving his (and other’s) problems with their orders.

Exactly.

[JerryHawk250]

Guys, let's not turn this into a bash familygokart thread. Brad is posting in good faith. Hopefully he see that every one gets there issues resolved.

[scoot newb]

Fair enough. Let's see what happens.

[kirbo7106]

It was a sad day. I took my hellcat, and shipping crate, put it on furniture dollies and pushed it to the back of my shed. My shed has an air-conditioner set at 80, so should be OK as far as rust. I put a sheet over it to keep the dust off.

Monday starts the first day of 12 days straight at work. April is not a good month for me, I only get 4 Days off in April. Before you ask, I work 40 hours a week +40 hours on call. Not much free time to work on the hellcat.

I’ll have the first weekend in May off though. Hopefully I’ll know something about my hellcat and it’s replacement parts.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend!

[scoot newb]

Dang. Did you try PM-ing Brett to see find out where you stand with familygokarts?

How long has it been since you first notified them of the damaged merchandise? Did you get any response?

[kirbo7106]

It’s been about 11 days. I haven’t heard from Brett.

[scoot newb]

You gotta get it running by May 25th cause...

http://49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/24537/scoot-week-who-when-where

[kirbo7106]

Here’s the event I want to go to:

https://mysmokymountainguide.com/blog/events/smoky-mountain-crawl/

RedCrowRides turned me on to this one!

[scoot newb]

Wow check this out.

So the day after Brett from familygokarts posted here and I PM-ed him my ticket number... a couple of things happened and I wrote to Brad about it. I refrained from posting it here because I thought they were actually going to try to resolve this.

Hello Brad,

Jeff called yesterday and offered some advice for the noisy front wheel. Oil, I wouldn't have thought of that. I assumed the damaged hub on the front rim was mostly to blame.

After that advice he went into 'the bashing' of familygokarts on forums'. He said a moderator contacted you about the posts here. He said that I was calling familygokarts 'scum'. His words not mine. I tried explaining there was no name calling but he cut me off and suggested I say something nice about familygokarts. :shrug:

I tried moving the conversation forward by discussing the unaddressed problems with the bike. I was cut off again and told that had to be done through the website. A few moments after getting off the phone the ticket was updated.


Jeff literally spent more time addressing these posts than problems with the bike.





we try our best to fix every problem that comes up.



https://imgur.com/b3xleTc.jpg

SMH. Does that look like someone trying their best?

Are the three parts in my post prior to his reply being sent? What about the other parts? Why isn't there a summary of what is being sent, how and when?


Update from today.

So American Express sided with me in the dispute with familygokarts. I am on the phone with them right now because the charge re-appeared. According to American Express, this is a second charge from familygokarts. The representative went on to say familygokarts used the original authorization to make ANOTHER charge after finding out they lost the dispute. I'm still trying to get to the bottom of this with help from an Amex representative.

Update:

So Amex is making a separate dispute for that. The dispute for receiving damaged merchandise is already settled. They found in favor of me. This is considered a new and different type of dispute which is handled as if the merchant (familygokarts) is making bogus charges from pre-existing auths.

My word, it would seem this place is pretty bad and seems to be utilizing all the bad business practices people have been complaining about with the Better Business Bureau .



Hey Bret, any comment?

[Bruces]

Sounds like you haven’t learned a darn thing ,and I am sure Kirbo’s chances of any help have now diminished as well since you chose to bash family gokarts on his thread .

[scoot newb]

Sounds like you haven’t learned a darn thing ,and I am sure Kirbo’s chances of any help have now diminished as well since you chose to bash family gokarts on his thread .


I can't tell if you're serious. People should know about their antics. It sounds like familygokarts hasn't learned a thing.

[goat67]

Wow check this out.

So the day after Brett from familygokarts posted here and I PM-ed him my ticket number... a couple of things happened and I wrote to Brad about it. I refrained from posting it here because I thought they were actually going to try to resolve this.




Update from today.

So American Express sided with me in the dispute with familygokarts. I am on the phone with them right now because the charge re-appeared. According to American Express, this is a second charge from familygokarts. The representative went on to say familygokarts used the original authorization to make ANOTHER charge after finding out they lost the dispute. I'm still trying to get to the bottom of this with help from an Amex representative.

Update:

So Amex is making a separate dispute for that. The dispute for receiving damaged merchandise is already settled. They found in favor of me. This is considered a new and different type of dispute which is handled as if the merchant (familygokarts) is making bogus charges from pre-existing auths.

My word, it would seem this place is pretty bad and seems to be utilizing all the bad business practices people have been complaining about with the Better Business Bureau .



Hey Bret, any comment?

So they sent you parts to fix the problems?

It seems they are working with you at least from my perspective. The shippers cause a lot of issues. When you received the bike did you note on the document that you signed that there was shipping damages?

So you are halting payment on the whole bike?

[Bruces]

I am definitely serious ,your problems are being handled by your credit card according to what you posted ,Kirby has not enlightened us as to what is happening with his battle ,do you really think they are going to help him now ? I agree people need to know ,but you were asked to refrain from bashing in this thread by a moderator ,yet you chose to jump right in and do it again .When it’s all said and done ,no problem ,as far as we know ,Kirbos fight is still not done .You should of waited until it’s all said and done .

[scoot newb]

So they sent you parts to fix the problems?

It seems they are working with you at least from my perspective. The shippers cause a lot of issues. When you received the bike did you note on the document that you signed that there was shipping damages?

So you are halting payment on the whole bike?


They haven't sent anything.

There wasn't any shipping damage. Most of the problems are with the electronics, carb, and front end. There would be no way to inspect say the problem with the lock position on the ignition switch without unboxing, removing all the bolts, disassembling the cage removing the bolt securing the front end to the cage, then putting on the front tire.

[scoot newb]

I am definitely serious ,your problems are being handled by your credit card according to what you posted ,Kirby has not enlightened us as to what is happening with his battle ,do you really think they are going to help him now ? I agree people need to know ,but you were asked to refrain from bashing in this thread by a moderator ,yet you chose to jump right in and do it again .When it’s all said and done ,no problem ,as far as we know ,Kirbos fight is still not done .You should of waited until it’s all said and done .



It isn't like familygokarts would do anything productive anyway. The negative BBB reports are true. I waited patiently for over a week before I posted anything negative. In fact my first post about this in the other sub, I left out the vendors name until I was asked where I got it from. You were the one who told me you would have reported it to the credit card company 'yesterday' meaning before I even considered it.

I reported the problems to familygokarts the same day I took delivery of it. I never got a coherent reply or even a confirmation familygokarts acknowledged the problems or if they were taking any plan of action to correct it. Bret came here did some damage control and bailed. That only resulted in a phone call where Jeff thought putting oil between the plastic and metal would solve the problem of the damaged front hub and of course his 'friendly warning' to say something good about familygokarts.

Kirby's problem is not related to mine and what I say or post shouldn't have any effect on his outcome. If it does that further enforces what kind of business familygokarts runs.

There isn't anyway to work this out with the vendor because I get unclear replies with misspellings every few days through their trouble ticket system. Any attempt to contact them by phone, they point me back to the ticket system.

[goat67]

They haven't sent anything.

There wasn't any shipping damage. Most of the problems are with the electronics, carb, and front end. There would be no way to inspect say the problem with the lock position on the ignition switch without unboxing, removing all the bolts, disassembling the cage removing the bolt securing the front end to the cage, then putting on the front tire.

So what parts did you black out in the message from them? It sounded like they were asking if these parts fixed the issue?

[scoot newb]

So what parts did you black out in the message from them? It sounded like they were asking if these parts fixed the issue?

Unfortunately no replacement parts have been sent. Jeffs mention of three parts was a response to me sending the SKU numbers of the damaged plastic pieces.


The blacked out portions, the top is my username on the ticketing system and the lower is my name and address.

[wlfpck]

Maybe I'm more of an old school forum user... can we keep things separate? This is Kirbo's thread.

Any other conversations that go into other topics at lengths should really be a separate topic. If someone were to come in here and read about Kirbo's issues, they'd get through some pages and then it becomes 3 different topics aside from his original topic.

Idk... maybe it's the OCD in me.

[RedCrowRides]

As a sidenote to wlfpcks comments, we have an entire separate section of the Forums for Dealer and Distributor discussions, which is where this thread looks like it should be , the Street forum is primarily asking questions , looking for parts compatability, looking for tuning advice, not chronicling issues with Dealer / Supplier.



No one ever wants to, or should expect to, receive a damaged item but it's not a secret these are Chinese bikes with little to no Dealership support like a Honda or Harley and other than the most basic of issues , who you bought it from ( unless CSC or Venom ) is just not likely to be a huge amount of help ,especially if their name is Manny .

[ck.mecha]

I also ordered a Hellcat from Family Go Karts, last October. Mine was shipped by SAIA as well and arrived with damage. I fortunately had it shipped to my work and our shipping manager marked the BOL as the packing was damaged.


The outside of the crate was mangled and punctured. When opened the bike was tilted in the shipping frame. Luckily the damaged was contained to the same area around the speedo on the front wheel and the back tire was sliced from the support brace. Also after getting it together I could not get the dash to go into MPH from KMH.


So this is where my story turns from yours. Family Go Karts sent me a new wheel for the front, a new tire for the back, and a new dash. They also let me keep the old stuff (I tossed everything except the damaged wheel).

11/7 - I sent them notification there was damage
11/8 - received my first response from FGK
11/19 - Replacement parts shipped
11/21 - replacement parts arrived


I understand thats 2 weeks, but I also understand there are multiple parties involved. Im overall happy with my experience and at the time they were the absolute cheapest vendor I could find (that may have changed now).


I also understand this is my first post so take it with a grain of salt. Im not new to motorcycles and I have no affiliation with FGK as this community will see from my future posts. Was browsing for an exhaust solution and saw this post so wanted to chime in.

[scoot newb]

I find that hard to believe.

Join Date
04-22-2019
Total Posts
1

Who were you dealing with to get the replacement parts? I was going 4 to 5 days between responses. The responses were filled with typos and written in a hurry. I had to repeat more than once the problems I had. It's like that slob Jeff was too lazy to scroll up, drunk or high and or just didn't care.

[ck.mecha]

I find that hard to believe.

Join Date
04-22-2019
Total Posts
1

Who were you dealing with to get the replacement parts? I was going 4 to 5 days between responses. The responses were filled with typos and written in a hurry. I had to repeat more than once the problems I had. It's like that slob Jeff was too lazy to scroll up, drunk or high and or just didn't care.


I do understand my friend, I am an internet nobody and you can believe or ignore my experience. My conversations were with a "Mike Folk". Heres a screen capture from part of the conversation. Maybe I got lucky, or maybe you just got unlucky. Either way one of us is the exception.


And also while where at it a pic of me and one of my other bikes this weekend. Anyone can find me in real life, WERA #47.

[scoot newb]

Cool. I'm glad it worked out.

[RedCrowRides]

Not to hijack the thread to an off topic ,but I'd like to shout out to a fellow WERA racer , I raced WERA back in 84-86 on a Kawasaki GPz 750, unfortunately this was exactly the time when Honda released the first VF750F Interceptors with newer technologies so Kawasakis previous lock down of several years of the 750 class was over .


Still, it was some of the most fun I have ever had in my life and was an experience i have carried with me all my life , it was great getting to meet and ride with and against some of the Worlds top riders Team Hammer, Team CowBoy, Reno Leoni / Jimmy Adamo ensemble of builder - n rider and many many others.

[kirbo7106]

I received this the other day:



It looks very generic! It’s not “Hi Danny”, it’s “Hello”. It doesn’t mention anything pertaining to my claim. I think it’s a pre-written response. Needless to say, I haven’t received any farther responses.

ch.meha-you ARE the exception!

[kirbo7106]

I was trying to insert these pictures:

16663

16664

[wlfpck]

Starting to see some issues popping up with the hellcats...

If you get your money back, I'd go for an SSR Razkull.

The engine is bolted in with the 3 bolt design of the Honda Grom. If you want to sawp the zs190, you just need the Grom adapter plate. This will help with vibration issues.

SSR has dealerships around the country and can actually get parts in. Plus, they seem to be a LOT bigger than the other companies (in the US anyways).

You'll pay a bit more... but when the Razkull came out, it wasn't a "knock-off" or a clone. And then other companies started copying the SSR Razkull with the Boom Lil Duc.

Also, benefit of the SSR Razkull is that the SSR brand is a pretty well known brand. Like it shows up on RumbleOn and other sites that sell/buy motorcycles.

With the clones... you get a lot of "What is it?" "is that road legal?" etc. etc.

I have a Grom clone myself so it's not like I'm biased towards the SSR Razkull. Just food for thought.

[Whisky]

SSR is I must say very protective with there products and what they sale, which is a good thing. It's almost like they don't want to be in the same category as the other clones, "which they are in fact a step or two above in the quality department. I had to jump through several hoops just to get them to sale me a gas tank. As said above they do run around $2000.but you won't have the quality issues.

[sirmaxwell]

SSR is I must say very protective with there products and what they sale, which is a good thing. It's almost like they don't want to be in the same category as the other clones, "which they are in fact a step or two above in the quality department. I had to jump through several hoops just to get them to sale me a gas tank. As said above they do run around $2000.but you won't have the quality issues.

The only dealer within 30 miles of me and one of only two SSR dealers in my state (CT) wanted something like $2400 or $2500 for the Razkull--although I think that included taxes and cant quite remember if that included title and plates-

Maybe not quite 2 times the price if that quote included plates/title which I can't remember if it did--Still it was A lot more and from a visual inspection and the test ride of the Razkull vs riding the Vader after I received it I didn't notice much of a difference which is why I personally chose to go with the Vader. Maybe the Razkull is even a little better but I failed to see anything that was very significantly different in how they ride. I probably would have gotten a better stock carb with the Razkull or at least one jetted better from the local dealer Im guessing. Only time will tell if I made the right decision for reliability going with the Vader but I dont see myself putting a real lot of miles on it before I sell it to someone else who is learning to ride or doesnt want to go very fast

[wlfpck]

Your resale value is going to be a lot better for a SSR.

For instance, the dealerships here won't even take a Boom Vader, Ice Bear Fuerza, Taotao Hellcat, Boom Lil duc, Ice Bear Little Monster, etc. in a trade in.

They will take a SSR Razkull.

That and the fact that NADA and KBB list the SSR Razkull but none of the others is also a big part.

Yes, it costs more... but the other thing to consider to is that to get parts, you have to either go through a partskit.com site or a dealer. There are a LOT more SSR dealers than Boom Vader or what not. Plus... where I'm at, we have dealerships that carry kawasaki and SSR products. That makes it a lot easier.

[sirmaxwell]

Your resale value is going to be a lot better for a SSR.

For instance, the dealerships here won't even take a Boom Vader, Ice Bear Fuerza, Taotao Hellcat, Boom Lil duc, Ice Bear Little Monster, etc. in a trade in.

They will take a SSR Razkull.

That and the fact that NADA and KBB list the SSR Razkull but none of the others is also a big part.

Yes, it costs more... but the other thing to consider to is that to get parts, you have to either go through a partskit.com site or a dealer. There are a LOT more SSR dealers than Boom Vader or what not. Plus... where I'm at, we have dealerships that carry kawasaki and SSR products. That makes it a lot easier.

I agree you can almost always get a better trade in value, a better Return On Investment on SSR--At least thru the dealership. That being said I have already had one offer from a third party person to buy my Vader this fall after I ride it all Summer of $1000 which isnt too bad since I paid $1200 for it and I might consider selling it then depending on my situation, if I feel I want a bigger bike at that time or if I end up moving I might just sell.

As far as getting parts--yes also SSR and bigger brands you can more easily find OEM and probably aftermarket parts specifically marked for SSR..BUT I haven't had any trouble fitting those bigger name brand parts on the Vader because they are essentially the exact same bike with a little different quality hardware, fit and finish here and there.
Yes you will get a bit better quality and way better trade in MAYBE better selling to third party on craig list or Facebook marketplace MAYBE and definitley on like RumbleOn...for me it is a bit of a gamble to go with the more unknown Vader that might require more wrenching and only time will tell me if the quality of this Vader is good enough for what I need it for. So far, very early on in my experience I am happy with my decision without any second thoughts. I just wish I had a second person for assembly to put on the wheel and rear shock but even without skills tools or smarts on that I figured it out with a couple hours and some redneckish ingenuity to make a rope tourniquet type lift for the front wheel and brute strength on the rear shock attachment. If I had an extra $Grand$ laying around sure maybe I would've gone SSR and initially that's what I looked at pretty much because it's a bigger name with better hardware maybe slighlty better stock performance that can be mostly made up for with a carb change and with a sprocket change both for a total of $50-$75 the Vader might be faster or have higher top speed than the stock SSR. Time will tell if I stay happy with it or not-- I can only hope for the best and stay solid with my fellow China Riders sharing information to help get the best possible ride experience out of my Vader!

P.S. Both the SSR Razkull and Vader in stock form DO SHARE MANY PARTS including the cheap yet workhorse carb in the PZ20!!

[sirmaxwell]

I was trying to insert these pictures:

16663

16664


So does it look like the shipping company will be reimbursing you? I would hope they are! And if they refuse I really hope your Card company supports you by, at least in the end, doing a chargeback no takebacks!
I feel like this total loss disaster you have been dealing with could have easily happened to me or anyone else who has a bike shipped to them since my shipping metal frame around the Vader I recieved, which went coast to coast in the USA after coming via boat to Riverside, California from China, had a huge dent on one of the metal members which left it right up against my exhaust but I was very lucky it was only touching the exhaust with zero damage. There was also a little L shaped bracket that I think is welded on the bottom at a corner of the frame was bent and came off in transit. Also my cardboard shipping box had multiple mpunctures and a big tear, and the metal frame dent was even so visible with the box on top of it that the freight driver told me to get on the truck to inspect my package before he took it off because he though there was a good chance i would refuse it for damage and he didn't want to have to take it off the truck only to have delivery refused and be forced to reload it! Luckily I cut the straps and the only damage I had was a front blinker hanging by a thread of ripped rubber spacer--I wanted flush mounts anyways because the stock ones that protrude are easily caught on anything and broken...so no big or expensive loss there--in fact I didnt bother reporting it.

I wish you the best and hope to hear a positive update soon!