What is the top speed on your China Bike?

[sirmaxwell]

I have a so far stock 2019 Boom Vader Gen 1 style that I am still breaking in--SO I don't yet know my top speed but it looks promising as I can get it up to 40 mph stock at around 6K rpms. That indicates to me with a carb/jet update and intake/exhaust mods it might be able to hit 60mph + like I have seen on an SSR Razkull with the mods I just listed including I believe a +1 front sprocket they hit 63MPH GPS with a stock speedo indicating 67MPH.

I only NEED my bike to get up to 45-55MPH so I can comfortably go on at least 45MPH MAYBE some 50MPH roads without a car up my rear too much. Top speeds and mods interest me so I can know what to expect from my stock Vader and also what to expect from mods--which would help a lot to make me decide whther or not to do the mod. I am als interested in speeds of other China Bikes as I originally had my eye on the Hawk and Magician 250's & I. may yet get a Dual Sport or Adventure bike if I have the time, money and will to do so

ANyways I am really interested to hear how fast your bike can go! Please list your top speed on flat ground, preferably with little to no winds or list the head or tailwinds if you think they significantly affected your speed post, list what make + model + year bike you have, also is it stock or modified and if modified please list any mods that would possibly affect speed.

Thanks everyone and have fun on your China Bikes and as always Ride Safe!
:thanks:

[Sport Rider]

after mods, my hawk would do 63 (gps). sprockets, intake and carb/jetting. Problem is she was wound pretty tight at that speed. she was comfortable in the 45-50 range and could hold 55 pretty well. most of my commute is in that range, so worked well for me. it was also good for mountain back-road and forest service road travels. there it's more like 20 to 35. I enjoyed being able to chug along all day enjoying the trails and scenery.

[Mudflap]

The owners manual for my old Lifan 200 says top speed 100 and that's about right.


100 kph that is. Real comfortable cruising for extended periods at 90.

[sirmaxwell]

after mods, my hawk would do 63 (gps). sprockets, intake and carb/jetting. Problem is she was wound pretty tight at that speed. she was comfortable in the 45-50 range and could hold 55 pretty well. most of my commute is in that range, so worked well for me. it was also good for mountain back-road and forest service road travels. there it's more like 20 to 35. I enjoyed being able to chug along all day enjoying the trails and scenery.

Do you think exhaust mod/new exhaust may make your Hawk feel better at higher speeds/rpm?

In my opinion 63MPH is pretty darn fast on a small displacement and fairly light bike like most of us on China Riders have. SO I would say you're doing pretty good hitting 63! I would probably chicken out on my Vader or not hold that highway speeds even if i eventually can somehow hit 60 with gearing,carb,exhaust... AND favorable wind maybe a slight downhill on really smooth pavement and speed tires would help too lol To go on the highway or at Highway speeds then I would maybe want a proper touring or sports bike with top of the line wheels, suspension and an engine that feels comfortable at 65MPH

[Azhule]

83.x miles per hour (Trail Tech Vapor Digital Dash, Subaru follow car, and Garmin GPS verified speeds) on my Bashan WILL 200 Dual Sport... bike needs some better tires and name brand Steering Head bearings before I go any faster :hehe:

Have held 70+ mph for 2 or so hours at a time going to and from my home and the mountain trails on I-25

197cc Lifan engine with: "emissions pump delete" (exhaust fresh air pump crap), airbox delete for an UNI Pod filter, Mikuni cloned carb, stock exhaust head pipe (minus a mountain weld, still has the "Cat"), FMF Turbincore 2 Muffler, Denso Iridium Spark plug (the $50 racing version), a Denso Coil on Plug (taken from a liter bike), ceramic wheel bearings, and 17t/39t sprocket combo to reach those speeds

[sirmaxwell]

The below Linked Youtube Video shows what is i believe to be a 2017 Vader with just +1 front tooth sprocket and a 26mm mikuni carb that I'm assuming is jetted properly.

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkF-BTN-4Hg

The uploader/rider/Vader owner claims it goes +12MPH over stock and I dont see the top speed listed in description or the lonely comments section BUT I did see his speedo for part of the video and what looks like the stock speedo shows 57MPH!

Note: My stock Vader speedo indicated 40MPH and my Iphone GPS said 37MPH for one run and 39MPH for the same run the opposite direction for a quite unscientific stock speedo to GPS App comparison

[RKG83]

Before the carb upgrade I topped out right at 48 (gps) with the upgraded carb i was able to hit 58. Prob do better with a smaller guy considering I’m 6’2 225

This is on a 2018 Boom

[sirmaxwell]

83.x miles per hour (Trail Tech Vapor Digital Dash, Subaru follow car, and Garmin GPS verified speeds) on my Bashan WILL 200 Dual Sport... bike needs some better tires and name brand Steering Head bearings before I go any faster :hehe:

Have held 70+ mph for 2 or so hours at a time going to and from my home and the mountain trails on I-25

197cc Lifan engine with: "emissions pump delete" (exhaust fresh air pump crap), airbox delete for an UNI Pod filter, Mikuni cloned carb, stock exhaust head pipe (minus a mountain weld, still has the "Cat"), FMF Turbincore 2 Muffler, Denso Iridium Spark plug (the $50 racing version), a Denso Coil on Plug (taken from a liter bike), ceramic wheel bearings, and 17t/39t sprocket combo to reach those speeds

dang that's pretty fast man! Also a really good sprocket combo and I'm guessing your tires are way bigger than my 12" Vader tires--which are basically scooter tires lol--But Tires basically it's like your tire size affects gearing and bigger tires can help you get a higher top speed also. Im a little surprised the Subaru kept up--just kidding kind of, i dont really like Subaru anymore though after owning 8 of them

Your mods that include removing the "exhaust fresh air pump" made me think why the heck do we even have an exhaust fresh air pump?? Do we have it so that they hook up an emissions hose to the exhaust and say oh your exhaust is half fresh air or however much (because of the air pump!) Maybe it helps as a catalyst, maybe it just helps the exhaust gasses break down faster or maybe Im just reading this early in the morning, I dont really know much about how it works but the idea we bother pumping fresh air into the exhaust which cools it down and therefore probably slows down the gas evacuation from our exhaust seems a bit ridiculous to me!

I think you may have already taken the cake for any of us on China riders for top speed already!

[upgasgas1224]

csc tt250 and 74 flat ground but more accurately 72 with gps

[2LZ]

dang that's pretty fast man!
I think you may have already taken the cake for any of us on China riders for top speed already!

LOL! I don't think Azhule mentioned he's about 105 pounds, soaking wet! That definitely helps.....

[RedCrowRides]

My 2018 Gen 2 Vader with an aftermarket exhaust , carb, filter, and CDI runs about 62-65 max , with stock gearing. I have a 17T front sprocket that would help top end but

my primary use is stunting so i need torque more than top end . I have a Sportster i use if I'm going somewhere that would require a long distance hi-speed WFO run on the Vader.


Even given a 17t front sprocket i just dont think you will see more than 65mph and that is with a lightweight rider ,carb, exhaust , etc. and that is flat out at redline on a flat surface ( or downhill lol ).


If you want to do much more than that then you are looking at a Zs190 swap in ,the 5th gear it offers plus more CC is about the only way to get there afaik .

[Azhule]

LOL! I don't think Azhule mentioned he's about 105 pounds, soaking wet! That definitely helps.....

I'm also 5 foot 9 inches tall (even with a slightly collapsed and decently snaked/curved spine), tall and skinny like a tooth pick :D

Don't remember checking my weight during the top speed runs I have pics of and mention all the time, but I do fluctuate between 105 and 120 pounds thanks to my Chrons >:

On that note, I have had a few good weeks and was able to keep a good amount of food down in my gut :hehe: I'm happy to say, I got back up to 117.4 pounds today :yay:

On a side note... even a N/A Subaru with the crappy CVT will have plenty of grunt to go over 115 mph... XT/WRX/STI turbo power plants have plenty of power to get upwards of 155 mph before aerodynamics hold them back :lmao:

[sirmaxwell]

LOL! I don't think Azhule mentioned he's about 105 pounds, soaking wet! That definitely helps.....


BAHAHA :D yeah I'm sure that helps his top speed... But It doesn't help me that Im pushing past 200lbs & riding the Vader!

Time to start my bike diet lol :shrug:

[scoot newb]

I'm not sure. This thing is such a POS. At 90km/h it feels unsafe. I haven't tried going any faster.

[sirmaxwell]

On a side note... even a N/A Subaru with the crappy CVT will have plenty of grunt to go over 115 mph... XT/WRX/STI turbo power plants have plenty of power to get upwards of 155 mph before aerodynamics hold them back :lmao:


Yeah but they all use way outdaed Boxer engine technology sure it helps keep the center of gravity low and all that..

My problem with the Subarus I owned was that, compared to good cars I have owned, the Subarus ended up having some very cheap parts and sure I have seen people ride them past 300k maybe even one to 500k miles but for me they cost a lot more to get past 120 miles than my Toyota corolla for example or even my Buick with a 3800 V6 was cheaper in maintainence. Sure the Subaru has AWD--my solution to that is don't ride at the peak of the winter storms and then I dont need AWD which is fine except in the worst blizzards or if you happen to live somewhere they dont take care of the roads. For me for the price of a Subaru the Subaru is an ok car but just kind of second rate as far as reliability and what you get for your money and Im sure tons of people hate on me and disagree and whatever. BUT after having a lemon Subaru Forester --a 2001 I think L designation that was the last straw for me. Maybe that specific Forester I got had been in a flood before i got it or God knows what but the thing was a complete nightmare--way worse than the 7 others I owned previously-- and I got it less than 5 years old with 60k miles on it so not like it was that old and it barely lived past 120k miles. Mostly I had the wagons except one of my Imprezas and a Legacy I had were sedans and I had plenty of great times in them in they were quick off the line and handled well for what they were. The Subarus in my book are ok but there is better out there for the same money is what I have experienced

[sirmaxwell]

My 2018 Gen 2 Vader with an aftermarket exhaust , carb, filter, and CDI runs about 62-65 max , with stock gearing. I have a 17T front sprocket that would help top end but

my primary use is stunting so i need torque more than top end . I have a Sportster i use if I'm going somewhere that would require a long distance hi-speed WFO run on the Vader.


Even given a 17t front sprocket i just dont think you will see more than 65mph and that is with a lightweight rider ,carb, exhaust , etc. and that is flat out at redline on a flat surface ( or downhill lol ).


If you want to do much more than that then you are looking at a Zs190 swap in ,the 5th gear it offers plus more CC is about the only way to get there afaik .


Anything near or over 60mph is probably all I would ever care to hit on my Vader with stock engine and probably would want to change out other parts too if I wanted to ride it on the highway on the regular. SO that's pretty good in my book.:tup:
My Vader in stock form seems to it 40 fast enough but that's as fast as I've tried as of yet--I think that was around 6k RPM to hit 40MPH stock on an engine with 40 miles or less and I wasn't trying to go 40 until after I shifted to 4th under 30mph I was like ehh maybe I'll open it up a little even though the speed limit was pretty low

[scoot newb]

my primary use is stunting so i need torque more than top end

How do I 'fat nooner' with a 4 stroke?

[sirmaxwell]

How do I 'fat nooner' with a 4 stroke?


4 strokes generally make significantly more torque than 2 strokes AT LEAST at low rpms and often thru most of the band so it should be easier with a 4 stroke to wheelie than with a 2 stroke -so the 4 stroke should be able to pull fat ass nooners for days in circles around the 2 strokes. :clap: :p :lmao:

if you meant how do you wheelie on a 4T vs wheelies on a 2T..

[Azhule]

"It's made by Subaru so you know it will be more reliable than the sun"

I just love seeing and working on Toyotas (along with Ford, Kia, Jaguar, Porsche, Audi, Lotus, Nissan, BMW, Jeep, Dodge, Suzuki, Mercedes, Subaru, Chevy, Lexus, etc....) with the know it all owner. Over the years I have had hundreds of Toyota owners show up with sludged up engines, mainly due to their design and possibly lack of owners maintenance or cheap oil/aftermarket parts (PCV and EGR parts also like to cake up with blow by/carbon that no one bothers to clean...)... tons of $$ was made that day :clap:

Engines looking like the one in the link below would show up all the time

https://www.justanswer.com/toyota/7qoc1-corolla-le-2004-seized-105k-miles-says-mechanic.html

Not trying to get into a pissing contest over Subaru and "Brand XYZ" is better or worse; I have owned 3 Subarus and 2 Toyotas and would buy from either brand again if the price for power/luxury is right; all I'm saying is every car can have it's issues and lemons... just be happy most of the cars sold today are good at hiding any issues from "improper use" :tup:

Fun Fact; Subaru Corporation still owns 16.48% of Toyota; Subaru Corporation/Aerospace Company also makes a few different kinds of airplanes

https://www.subaru.co.jp/en/outline/business_aero.html

Back on topic for this ASE Tech :hehe:

[scoot newb]

Hmm. IDK fam, I recently hopped on an older RM 80 and it was nooner city. This thing is lacking. Maybe my clone is really f-ed up. :)

[sirmaxwell]

"It's made by Subaru so you know it will be more reliable than the sun"



Engines looking like the one in the link below would show up all the time

https://www.justanswer.com/toyota/7qoc1-corolla-le-2004-seized-105k-miles-says-mechanic.html

Not trying to get into a pissing contest over Subaru and "Brand XYZ" is better or worse; I have owned 3 Subarus and 2 Toyotas and would buy from either brand again if the price for power/luxury is right; all I'm saying is every car can have it's issues and lemons... just be happy most of the cars sold today are good at hiding any issues from "improper use" :tup:

Fun Fact; Subaru Corporation still owns 16.48% of Toyota; Subaru Corporation/Aerospace Company also makes a few different kinds of airplanes

https://www.subaru.co.jp/en/outline/business_aero.html

Back on topic for this ASE Tech :hehe:

wait dont you meant Toyota owns over 16% of Subarus parent company Fuji Heavy Industries that would print their name all over the bad electrical components I had to switch out of countless Subarus at relatively low milage? Or do they both own that much of each other's companies?

[sirmaxwell]

I dont mean to get in an arguement over the brands either I have worked on mostly friends and families cars and spent a few years as a mechanic but really disliked the people i worked for and quit when I got my accounting degree. The one thing all the cars have in common is they all break down. I have seen many probably most people abuse their cars even if they know what they are doing because of time constraints, lack of money or they just cant be bothered to do even basic very neccesary maintainence. I cant remember how many times I have pulled off rotors with holes in them---and i dont mean cross drilled rotors I mean the regular rotors that were up against the backing plate that used to hold brake pads for sooo long that the backing plate went straight thru the rotor all the way around! I remember one time seeing a woman drive her Mercedes in when i worked at a full service Meineke--she hadn't changed her oil in between 20,000-30000 miles and it was solid in the bottom of the oil pan when we pulled it!

[sirmaxwell]

Hmm. IDK fam, I recently hopped on an older RM 80 and it was nooner city. This thing is lacking. Maybe my clone is really f-ed up. :)

I can't argue against the Rm-80. maybe gearing and other parts that came factory on the Rm are just better.
On a side note I've heard many people saying 2-strokes will be dead before long I guess mostly due to emissions--even the top of the line direct injection clean ones its like they have already pretty much done all they can to clean up emissions on those so as the new CARB and Euro emissions keep getting tougher plus many, not all but many companies have been getting away from making them partially or sompletely andaren't investing in new 2T tech. I don't think we will see them too much longer.
I used to love my 2 stroke mopeds and an old dirtbike my brother had and my hedge trimmer and chain saw.

and oops I meant to say b4 the 4stroke makes more torque per cycle and at the same RPM the 2T has twice as many cycles. Still I have seen people do all sorts of grom and grom clone wheelies, personally Im not very good at wheelies

[RedCrowRides]

For the question about Grom clone wheelies :


First off ,you will be amazed at how much these bikes pick up in performance once completely broken in at about 300 - 500 miles, over how they feel when brand new and under 50 miles on the clock.
Secondly, again it is amazing how well these bikes respond to aftermarket carbs and exhausts ,the stock carb is so lean and the stock pipe has a cat built in and is ultra restrictive that replacing them really wakes the bike up even more so than years past.
Some people do run a 14t front sprocket in order to add a little extra low end grunt for stunting but this will have a negative impact on top end speed if that is a concern,I run my stock 15t and I'm fine.
YouTube has plenty of Grom clone wheelie vids using stock motor ,with carbs and pipes only .,Amari drummer has a near bone stock Vader here :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efK_g16fyzw



Maybe one day i will actually use my GoPro 3 and make a video of me on mine, i figure since the battery has been in the charger for about six months since i bought the GoPro used off Ebay its prolly ready to use lmao.

[sirmaxwell]

For the question about Grom clone wheelies :


First off ,you will be amazed at how much these bikes pick up in performance once completely broken in at about 300 - 500 miles, over how they feel when brand new and under 50 miles on the clock.
Secondly, again it is amazing how well these bikes respond to aftermarket carbs and exhausts ,the stock carb is so lean and the stock pipe has a cat built in and is ultra restrictive that replacing them really wakes the bike up even more so than years past.
Some people do run a 14t front sprocket in order to add a little extra low end grunt for stunting but this will have a negative impact on top end speed if that is a concern,I run my stock 15t and I'm fine.
YouTube has plenty of Grom clone wheelie vids using stock motor ,with carbs and pipes only .,Amari drummer has a near bone stock Vader here :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efK_g16fyzw



Maybe one day i will actually use my GoPro 3 and make a video of me on mine, i figure since the battery has been in the charger for about six months since i bought the GoPro used off Ebay its prolly ready to use lmao.



Dude I can't agree with you more RedCrowRides on how these bikes pick up on performance and smoothness with shifting and acceleration/decceleration after break-in!!! Mine is still not totally broken in but I can already feel it shifting and finding Neutral easier, plus it seems to have a little more and definitley smoother power that makes it almost a completely different bike Versus when I first got it off the delivery truck a few weeks ago. Mine Has about 80 miles on the clock and I think at between 60-75 miles I took it for a ride one day and noticed it had some more mid-range power and was feeling smoother on shifts and I was like NICE!!

I still have a ways to go on break-in, maybe another 100 miles before the first manufacturer reccomended oil change (which is supposed to be at 300KM = about 180Miles if I read their Chinglish correctly!) So I am hoping to unlock a little more power!!! My engine break-in I have done so far almost exactly to the manufacturer's specs of keeping it at 30MPH or below and varying the engine rpm by not letting it idle for longer than it takes to warm up and going up and down thru the gears and even if I leave it in 4th gear i try not to hold the throttle steady for more than 1 minute at a time tops but usually it's more like 30 seconds is a looong time for me to hold the throttle/rpm steady--I'm sure you can hold your RPM steady for a lot longer than I am and still be fine but IT IS RECCOMENEDED to "vary your engine rpm during break-in". I feel like my engine break-in and following the bike maker's guidelines is going very well so far since I have already noticed a marked perceiveable increase in power and smoothness.
Also I know there are countless different opinions on break-in procedure, mostly the main debate is whether to ride the bike hard--"like you stole it" during break-in which some people say gets you slightly more performance----OR ride it to the manufacturer's reccomendations the first 500 miles and keep it at 50KMH(50kmh=31MPH) or below during that time and change the oil before your first ride and then every 180 miles for at least the first 3 changes then you can lengthen the intervals to something like every couple thousand miles after your engine is broken in(I dont have the book in front of me to quote the BOOM manufacturer reccomended oil change intervals after break-in right now). My thoughts on this are follow the bike maker's guidelines if you want to make your bike to be as reliable as possible for as long as possible because EVERY SINGLE major Japanese CHinese and German motorcycle manufacturer reccomends the same thing for the first 500-couple thousand miles which is to not go above about 50-60% of the bike's RPM--counting the redline as 100% so if the Vader for example redlines at 8300RPM, then don't take it above about 4000-5000RPM during break-in (I also don't have the exact manufacturer reccomendation for break-in length for the BOOM VADER in front of me but I THINK it's something like 600-1600miles) A good question is WHY DO ALL THE BIG BIKE MAKERS RECCOMEND VERY SIMILAR, NEARLY IDENTICAL BREAK_IN PROCEDURES? The answer is simply they warranty their bikes and don't want customers coming back in the first thousand miles with a broken bike that runs wonky because the rider wrung it's neck every single ride from brand new --which FOR EXAMPLE can cause the brand new valves/valve seats/springs/shim to not seat properly in it/s seat at the head, which lets improper amounts of air by that valve and ruins the bike's starting,idling and performance characteristics---AND THEN the bike maker would have to dig into their pockets and pay to fix all these bikes that were abused which causes the bike maker to lose money and therefore profits blah blah blah. The big 4 Japanese companies use very good materials and have very tight clearances and very low tolerances so although that does make their bikes run better and be high performance and all that, it also means if there is a very tight valve clearance for the bike to perform so well--if the valve doesn't seat right and messes with the valve spring which causes the valve to be in the wrong place entireley against where it was designed to be even a slight distance could mean hitting the piston and scoring the piston, bending the valve and the whole valve assembly--heck maybe even throwing the rocker arms and camshaft out of whack in an extreme case--then you need a new valve/valve stem/valve spring/rocker arm/cam shaft and maybe a new timing chain or timing chain tensioner or maybe just fix the timing by adjusting it...
Anyways to get back from my rant of what might be an extreme case, the fact of the matter is the bike maker says take it easy the first 500-1500 miles (give or take depending on your specific bike) so that all the new surfaces can seat and mate and polish each other properly. If one of these moving parts that is very close to another part is going to hit something and cause a problem, then it is most likely to happen when the bike is brand new, when the surfaces havent mated, and polished each other to the very tiny and exact measurements that ARE VERY SLIGHTLY different on each diffeent VIN number of the same exact bike. When the bike is new and you ride it thermal expansion happens and the parts aren't worn at all so the parts are as close to each other as they ever will be (until something fails/breaks/warps and ends up where it shouldnt be) and that's why to take it easy on a new bike during break-in.

SO these companies don't want you to break your bike, because then they have to pay to fix it under warranty, which is why they have break-in procedure--It is also important to note the bike maker says don't exceed (in the case of my 2018 BOOM GEN 1 VADER) 50KMh (OR 30MPH) during break-in and vary the RPM, BUT they also don't want you to crawl along at only 10MPH or less the entire time!! A Very SOFT break-in can also be bad for your bike, especially if you only ride it at 10MPH the first 1000 miles then immediately start riding it 100+MPH--the bike will maybe not be ready since the parts were not pushed hard enough to fully mate and polish each other during the VERY SOFT break-in and therefore things like thermal expansion might happen at such a large scale in this case after you start riding 100MPH that the moving parts MIGHT end up hitting each other and cause some sort of catastrophic failure!!

Another reason to take it reasonably slow during break-in is that if there is a defect or damage on part of your motorcycle like say a damaged but not broken wheel bearing or rear wheel hub if it's going to break (before it wears out an breaks 10,000 or 100,000 miles down the road or however long the part is SUPPOSED to last) then it's probably going ot break right away or soon after you start riding the brand new bike during the first few hundred or couple thousand miles--AND if it's something like a hub or wheel bearing that COULD cause your rear wheel to lock up, THEN it would be SOOOO MUCH BETTER if you are only going 30 Miles Per Hour and following the Manufacturer's Break-In Versus the "Ride It Like You Stole It" mantra going 100MPH.

Anyways, sorry to rant--I agree with the wise RedCrowRides, as usual, in the fact that these bikes get a lot better starting a good ways into your engine break-in and they continue to perform better and smoother until the engine is fully broken in.
I hope the break-in helps with your WHEELIES!!! Ride Safe and have fun!!! :hi::thanks:

One last thing to note is the stock Vader is very, very similar to both the SSR Razkull and in some ways the Honda Grom--both in looks, parts, and even performance. Heck the SSR Razkull even shares the same PZ20 carb with the Boom Vader, for at least some years, the ONLY difference with the carb being is that the SSR dealer is more likely than the online Boom Vader dealer to properly jet your carb and do other PDI stuff like change out the shipping oil for you, setup the chain to the correct slack, make sure the chain tensioner and wheel alignment is good, etc. SO..IF you do these adjustments to your Vader yourself and maybe even get a new carb/jets/intake/exhaust and pull up to a bone stock Razkull or Grom, then don't be surprised if you can keep up with the more expensive bikes or even pass them!!!

[ChopperCharles]

My SSR Buccaneer 250i has a top speed of 88mph with a smaller (80 profile) rear tire This is equivalent to 2 more teeth on the rear sprocket. Top speed was attained on a cool night, downhill, in a tuck. Speedo is off 6.15%, so that's 82.5 mph actual.

It cruises mid to upper 70s easily on the highway with this setup.

Also note I'm 250 lbs, so a lighter rider will have an even better experience with this bike.

Charles.

[sirmaxwell]

My SSR Buccaneer 250i has a top speed of 88mph with a smaller (80 profile) rear tire This is equivalent to 2 more teeth on the rear sprocket. Top speed was attained on a cool night, downhill, in a tuck. Speedo is off 6.15%, so that's 82.5 mph actual.

It cruises mid to upper 70s easily on the highway with this setup.

Also note I'm 250 lbs, so a lighter rider will have an even better experience with this bike.

Charles.

I like the Bucaneer and I wanted to get it but I also didnt want to dip into my fairly modest savings that much. That's a nice bike and a good top speed. I;m not sure I want to go too fast on a motorcycle although the more experience I have the better I'm able to shift and control it and the faster I'm willing to try going--at least on flat straights!

On a side note I just got back to Connecticut from visiting Daytona Beach Florida and the roads there are so much nicer, smoother and without potholes, and there are mostly long straight strips everywhere that I feel like it's an entirely different game for how fast I would want to ride my motorcycle a lot of the time down there vs up here. I think I would feel fine hitting 90 mph around town when there isnt traffic in Florida whereas in CT many many towns I wouldnt like to go much past 60 although Im sure there are a good amount of spots in CT I could hit the same speeds and feel very comfortable my point is those spots are everywhere in FL and there are even reflectors all over the roads to help see the lanes on a dark night. I found it very easy to abuse my rental car, when I was in a hurry and there wasn't traffic blocking me I was continuosly racing it to speeds I would have trouble comfortably, safely and easily maintaining for as long on many of the winding bumpy town roads and even the winding highways in CT where I live--On my way to the airport I had a 52 mile--90 minute drive to Orlando International Airport and I was just pushing it from 60-90 on mostly 2-3 lane each direction town roads and I flew up on a county sheriff when I was doing 90 in a 45 or 50mph zone but very luckily I noticed he was a cop just as I was 50-100 feet away and about to fly past him!! oops..so I hit the brakes and the cruise control and lost a lot of time I had made up previously but in the end even getting stuck in some of the only hard rain I saw all week and stuck in slow traffic half the drive plus another 7 miles driving at the speed limit with the cop and a 10 minute gas n pit stop and some more lights and medium traffic the last dozen miles near the airport I still made it the 52 miles in 90 minutes.It was really awesome down there with high temps ranging from about 80-90 degrees with awesome breezes all day and overnight lows from the mid 60s to mid 70's..I visited the Daytona International Speedway today, where they have car and motorcycle races with 30-31 degree banks on much of the tri-oval track.I wasn't one to watch races before, although I like anything with an engine and i like and respect speed, but now i would love to take an RV and a pitbike into the middle of the Daytona race track and tailgate while watching the cars or bikes fly by!.There is a lot of fun stuff to do in Daytona and Florida in general and as long as your a/c in your car and house is working well, then it's good times in my book. I wish I had a motorcycle to ride while I was down there--next time I will! I'm seriously considering moving there

[RedCrowRides]

Orlando and Tampa both have huge Grom scenes, Youtubers Dankwheelie and Photogromer are very involved with the Grom stunt scene in Tampa , while Blockhead out of Orlando has a Harley and Grom related channel on Youtube .Jacksonville hosts " Grom Day" sponsored by TST Industries as well that is a HUGE event each year and they also have a very active Grom crew in JAX.


If you love Groms and Grom clones, check their channels out on YouTube ,especially Photogromers .Florida has great riding weather and we are lucky to have some very good motovloggers as well on YouTube representing us . Fooligan is another Grom content channel , based out of the midwest as is Attention Deficit with great stuff.

[cbrfxr67]

So far my pr is 63 according to speedo,...

[ChopperCharles]

The Buccaneer feels much looser and more powerful at 2500 miles than it did when I first bought it. Dunno if it's all the way broken in now, but it feels that way. I'm a happy man.

Charles.

[sirmaxwell]

I'm not sure. This thing is such a POS. At 90km/h it feels unsafe. I haven't tried going any faster.


Did you expect to get a bike that you would feel confident going much faster than 40mph on when you ordered the Hellcat? IMSO it's supposed to be a cheap little doing laps around the neighborhood, running around town maybe going to the store, maybe lower speed stunting and tinkering on bike.

I mean they are one of the cheapest road legal bikes you can get brand new, so I hope you or anyone else didn't go to one of the places selling them for anymore than about $1200-$1300 delivered--I paid $1200 delivered, but have seen places trying to sell it for over $1000 more at almost $2500 maybe more I can't remember but it's ridiculous! I almost bought a used pitbike-- I talked a few people down to under $300 for bikes such as Thumpstar--and I was considering just throwing on lights and mirrors/reflectors/horn to make it legal--maybe even throw a moped plate on it, but I guess Im too lazy or wanted the easy way out so I spent many hundreds more on a more or less road ready bike in my Vader

I'm just hoping mine will last a little while before it blows up--at least until I'm ready to replace the engine with something better. During the first week or two when I was putting 10 miles on it every other day and it was hard to find neutral at first, yadda yadda, then seemed to be getting better, And then I think I messed up a shift or something the other day and the bike almost sounded like something was rubbing against the tire while I was riding after that. Now strange things have happened since like once I think it stalled out in like 2nd gear due to the intermittent fuel issue I still have, probably due to the emissions crap I still haven't taken off--anyhow I turn it off to preserve battery and try to find neutral, I thought I had because the bike rolled freely, then I turn the power on before I was going to start it and the indicator no joke said 3rd gear and the bike moved freely! AND to test if it was indicated properly I left the power on (engine was still off) and I shifted down to 2nd, then 1st--so I'm pretty sure it was in 3rd gear--or at least stuck somehwere near 3rd gear, but although I have watched a few similar videos on the inside of gearboxes and how they work--I am no engineer or expert so I'm not even sure if it could possibly really have been in or near 3rd gear and rolling freely like it was in Neutral--all while my hand was off the clutch. Another weird thing is sometimes, usually when I get homw from a ride and after I hit the kill switch & turn off the elecric power, I either already have it in Neutral or put it in neutral but it doesn't feel like it's rolling perfect like making a tiny noise intermittently at one point as I'm pushing it and I have come to realize if I lean the bike towards the clutch side when I am pushing it in Neutral like this sometimes it pops out of Neutral and the rear wheel locks up!---I am going to take an uneducated and quite possibly wrong guess that some of my issues might be that the gear selector forks, which are actuated by the gear drum, are maybe not all the way into the slot sometimes when I put it in gear so they can slip out to the next gear from say neutral and maybe that time I pushed it (mentioned above) in 3rd gear the clutch was stuck in even though I had realeased the clutch handle--OR maybe the gear selector fork hadn't pushed the gear all the way to lock up to a fixed gear so it could have still been freewheeling..? I really hope I haven't screwed up my gear box so fast...but oh well live and learn I guess. it would be too bad if I did ruin the gearbox because he rest of the engine, although a bit underpowered, starts up every time pretty easily and feels like it could run for thousands and thousands of miles perhaps

In any event, I do agree, kind of, that these bikes or at least parts of them, are kind of POS, but i am also saying no one should expect more from them than what they are. Kind of like don't buy a cheap, poorly rated car and be surprised when the car acts like a cheap car by having cheap parts that break easier than cars that are rated as reliable. Don't buy a mini/stunt/hooligan bike that's designed from the factory to cruise at 45mph, maybe go a little faster but not really sustained much faster and be upset it isn't feeling safe at slow highway speeds. Also, the 2018 Boom Vader I got is loads better, in a different league really, than some of the earlier motorcycle/scooters I have seen come out of China nearly 20 years ago. A couple of the scooters I have owned you would get them new, take the plastics off once gently and try to put the plastic back on as gentle as possible and the way they were fastened would mean the plastics would then fall off or be broken right away pretty much no matter what you did so it would be leave off the plastics, glue/epoxy them on or ride with junkie, broken plastics on your nearly brand new scooter

[scoot newb]

Did you expect to get a bike that you would feel confident going much faster than 40mph on when you ordered the Hellcat? IMSO it's supposed to be a cheap little doing laps around the neighborhood, running around town maybe going to the store, maybe lower speed stunting and tinkering on bike.

I mean they are one of the cheapest road legal bikes you can get brand new, so I hope you or anyone else didn't go to one of the places selling them for anymore than about $1200-$1300 delivered--I paid $1200 delivered, but have seen places trying to sell it for over $1000 more at almost $2500 maybe more I can't remember but it's ridiculous!

I'm just hoping mine will last a little while before it blows up--at least until I'm ready to replace the engine with something better. During the first week or two when I was putting 10 miles on it every other day and it was hard to find neutral at first, yadda yadda, then seemed to be getting better, And then I think I messed up a shift or something the other day and the bike almost sounded like something was rubbing against the tire while I was riding after that. Now strange things have happened since like once I think it stalled out in like 2nd gear due to the intermittent fuel issue I still have, probably due to the emissions crap I still haven't taken off--anyhow I turn it off to preserve battery and try to find neutral, I thought I had because the bike rolled freely, then I turn the power on before I was going to start it and the indicator no joke said 3rd gear and the bike moved freely! AND to test if it was indicated properly I left the power on (engine was still off) and I shifted down to 2nd, then 1st--so I'm pretty sure it was in 3rd gear--or at least stuck somehwere near 3rd gear, but although I have watched a few similar videos on the inside of gearboxes and how they work--I am no engineer or expert so I'm not even sure if it could possibly really have been in or near 3rd gear and rolling freely like it was in Neutral--all while my hand was off the clutch. Another weird thing is sometimes, usually when I get homw from a ride and after I hit the kill switch & turn off the elecric power, I either already have it in Neutral or put it in neutral but it doesn't feel like it's rolling perfect like making a tiny noise intermittently at one point as I'm pushing it and I have come to realize if I lean the bike towards the clutch side when I am pushing it in Neutral like this sometimes it pops out of Neutral and the rear wheel locks up!---I am going to take an uneducated and quite possibly wrong guess that some of my issues might be that the gear selector forks, which are actuated by the gear drum, are maybe not all the way into the slot sometimes when I put it in gear so they can slip out to the next gear from say neutral and maybe that time I pushed it (mentioned above) in 3rd gear the clutch was stuck in even though I had realeased the clutch handle--OR maybe the gear selector fork hadn't pushed the gear all the way to lock up to a fixed gear so it could have still been freewheeling..? I really hope I haven't screwed up my gear box so fast...but oh well live and learn I guess. it would be too bad if I did ruin the gearbox because he rest of the engine, although a bit underpowered, starts up every time pretty easily and feels like it could run for thousands and thousands of miles perhaps

In any event, I do agree, kind of, that these bikes or at least parts of them, are kind of POS, but i am also saying no one should expect more from them than what they are. Kind of like don't buy a cheap, poorly rated car and be surprised when the car acts like a cheap car by having cheap parts that break easier than cars that are rated as reliable. Don't buy a mini/stunt/hooligan bike that's designed from the factory to cruise at 45mph, maybe go a little faster but not really sustained much faster and be upset it isn't feeling safe at slow highway speeds. Also, the 2018 Boom Vader I got is loads better, in a different league really, than some of the earlier motorcycle/scooters I have seen come out of China nearly 20 years ago. A couple of the scooters I have owned you would get them new, take the plastics off once gently and try to put the plastic back on as gentle as possible and the way they were fastened would mean the plastics would then fall off or be broken right away pretty much no matter what you did so it would be leave off the plastics, glue/epoxy them on or ride with junkie, broken plastics on your nearly brand new scooter



I didn't expect poor frame welds. Poor to the point where brackets break off the frame from vibration. I wasn't expecting a defective triple tree preventing the bike from passing State inspection at a legitimate shop. I wasn't expecting it to randomly pop out of gear. The bike I received is a project bike at best. A death trap at worst.

I felt safer riding a modified ATM 50 at those speeds. This thing is a bucket of bolts.

[sirmaxwell]

I didn't expect poor frame welds. Poor to the point where brackets break off the frame from vibration. I wasn't expecting a defective triple tree preventing the bike from passing State inspection at a legitimate shop. I wasn't expecting it to randomly pop out of gear. The bike I received is a project bike at best. A death trap at worst.

I felt safer riding a modified ATM 50 at those speeds. This thing is a bucket of bolts.

I was just about to delete this comment I made since I went off topic of the specific thread. Again.

You do make some valid points. Like I said, Im hoping my gearbox or whatever part of the power transmission isn't knackered already with only 150 miles on it, at least some of that is probably me learning to shift it and at what rpm, plus I broke half the clutch lever when the bike fell because the kickstand doesn't do it's job well--you need to make sure it "settles" when you put it on the kickstand-it moves an inch or two or it will fall over--and having only half a clutch lever might mean I've been not having the clutch all the way pulled for shifts, not sure but I just ordered a new and better adjustable lever/handle, also the bike's performance either from changing during break-in or a crimped gas/emission line problem Ive had...but I guess maybe I've been lucky or not put enough miles on mine or the Vader could be slightly better quality, only time will tell..

Sounds to me like if your bike is running at all maybe you should put it up for sale to recover what you can while you can and et something else. I still wonder sometimes if I should've spent the money on say a used Ninja 250cc or whatever--I found a Ninja 250 in less than 30 seconds the other day listed as the second search result for $1900, it was about 10 years old I think, under 7k miles--was probably a learning bike but looked in good shape. AND I'm sure I could've found cheaper had I continues looking but I stopped right there.

Only time will tell me if Im happy or get my money's worth at all out of my Vader, so far I'm not sure of that, but I am sure I defend the clones when you say it's a POS partly out of hopiung my overall experience with it after owning it and riding it for a significant amount of time will be a good one, and partly because it hasnt been really bad at all for me yet, some not great stuff but nothing completely broke other than the handle when I let it fall over.

[sirmaxwell]

I didn't expect poor frame welds. Poor to the point where brackets break off the frame from vibration. I wasn't expecting a defective triple tree preventing the bike from passing State inspection at a legitimate shop. I wasn't expecting it to randomly pop out of gear. The bike I received is a project bike at best. A death trap at worst.

I felt safer riding a modified ATM 50 at those speeds. This thing is a bucket of bolts.


Is your rear wheel locking up when it pops out of gear when riding? If yes that sounds like a nightmare--literally that is one thing I have really worried about happening. Also is the bracket that broke on yours like the lower front fairing bracket near the trip tree?

funny side note I had that scooter you mention and I did put about 10k miles on it in maybe 4 months plus when I got it used with about 10k miles on it already, so I suppose it was ridden enough to get my money's worth and then some---but anyways the plastics on mine were way worse than the Vader and loads of stuff, bolts etc fell of mine as I was riding--

[scoot newb]

I also had a problem with crimping. Since the carb that shipped on my bike was defective I had to remove it and the airbox then replace it with an aftermarket manifold and carb. At that point I noticed the intake hose on the airbox was almost completely pinched off by the coil wire.

Any bike made from the big 4 and in good condition would be much better than these clones. But a Ninja 250 is kind of, ah, not as good of a beginner bike as you may think.

[scoot newb]

Is your rear wheel locking up when it pops out of gear when riding? If yes that sounds like a nightmare--literally that is one thing I have really worried about happening. Also is the bracket that broke on yours like the lower front fairing bracket near the trip tree?

funny side note I had that scooter you mention and I did put about 10k miles on it in maybe 4 months plus when I got it used with about 10k miles on it already, so I suppose it was ridden enough to get my money's worth and then some---but anyways the plastics on mine were way worse than the Vader and loads of stuff, bolts etc fell of mine as I was riding--

No, my rear wheel isn't locking up. Mine is more like ... going from 2'nd to 3'rd, it will pop back down to 2nd soon after the shift. It doesn't lock up. It's just like downshifting without the clutch.

The bracket that broke on mine was the voltage regulator bracket by the rear shock.

[sirmaxwell]

I also had a problem with crimping. Since the carb that shipped on my bike was defective I had to remove it and the airbox then replace it with an aftermarket manifold and carb. At that point I noticed the intake hose on the airbox was almost completely pinched off by the coil wire.

Any bike made from the big 4 and in good condition would be much better than these clones. But a Ninja 250 is kind of, ah, not as good of a beginner bike as you may think.


Wow it sounds like you had a ton wrong/ defective on yours. So far mine is alright mostly--I am maybe starting to have the shifting issue you mentioned because a couple times after a full stop I go into first then quickly try to go to second as usual and either the gear indicator goes from first to nothing indicated and I have to hit the shifter again to get the indicator to come up and at least once the bike (I think the gearbox specifically though not sure) then made a sound like something was rubbing the tire which nothing appeared to be hitting any tire and the noise would go away after letting the bike cool and riding again---OR from a stop I put it in first brap, shift to second brap, then shift to third and again the indicator either goes from second to nothing or goes to third briefly then back to second.But this has only happened a couple times and im hoping that my new adjsutable clutch lever coming tomorrow or a clutch cable adjustment MIGHT help me out. not too sure

I felt like my bike was also really jerky when I first got it--like winding up speed/rpms in 2nd gear it sometimes lurched as the rpm climbed even though I was holding throttle steady and similar would happen as I deccelerated---but as it breaks in it seems like I have way less of that--at first I thought it was just carb related--now Im not sure if it was the carb breaking in/malfunction, the engine power train or drive train/transmission break in getting smoother or if it was a syptom of my fueling issues--and Im halfway sure I could track down the answer without advanced tools, but Im definitley too lazy to do that.!

I have a good amount of car knowledge, or at least I used to, as I don't remember how much of it I've forgotten!!-- 15+ years ago i started my work at Mieneke for 2 years doing everything from oil changes and brakes to engine and transmission replacements and swaps--Although I had most of the Automobile Series tests passed handily under my belt, I had very little experience, so usually on almost all the harder, larger jobs I would be assisting or overseen to some degree by a Master Technician who was at very least a Master in the A series tests but often the main few guys I worked with either had tests or Master status from other series and all but one of them had decades more experience than me working on cars at the time--anyways my point is that my motorcycle knowledge is way less than my decent car knowledge, I only recently started riding 2 wheelers on the regular, so I really don't know too much and I haven't even looked up anything about the Ninja 250 or seen it up close in person or never even watched a Youtube about any Ninjas. I have seen posters of like the Ninja H2R and growing up as a kid and teen I always liked the Ninjas I saw parked, usually in cities and when I was impressionable thought the riders were instantly cooler by stepping over the bike and twisting that throttle, shifting those gears,disappearing rapidly, and occasionally popping a wheelie lol.

Why do you think a Ninja 250 isn't a good starter bike? just wondering, since like I said I pretty much know jack. What would be a good starter bike for someone like me (who rode under 20k miles on scooters and recently only a few hundred combined miles on dirtbikes and this new Vader--plus tiny amounts of mostly dirtbike riding years ago) to get after this Vader or in addition to the Vader?

[ChopperCharles]

Any bike made from the big 4 and in good condition would be much better than these clones. But a Ninja 250 is kind of, ah, not as good of a beginner bike as you may think.

It's not bad. It's far better than say a CBR600RR, which is what so many dealers sell as a "beginner" bike. But I hear you. I think a TW200 is the perfect beginner bike, from a purely "teach someone how to ride" standpoint. Hard to stall, nice and low, not too heavy, easy to pick up, dirt cheap, and not destroyable. BUT... the ninja is a better all-around motorcycle. It won't be outgrown quickly. Hell, even after owning 20 motorcycles, I could live with a 250 ninja as my only bike. It's just extremely versatile.

I'm also actually not a superfan of my Buccaneer 250 as a beginner bike. I'm a huge fan of it as a motorcycle, but it's got a pretty tall seat height (31"), the levers are made out of cheese, and replacement levers take a week to 10 days to get from SSR. Between me riding off-road and teaching people to ride on the bike, it had probably been crashed 15 times. Smashed up the headlight trim a bit, bent the handlebars, even bent a lever or two. But never did all that crashing that made the bike unrideable.

My friend Carly bought a buccaneer, and has dropped it three times already. At a standstill. Each time resulting in not being able to ride for a week because she broke a lever.

Charles.

[scoot newb]

Wow it sounds like you had a ton wrong/ defective on yours. So far mine is alright mostly--I am maybe starting to have the shifting issue you mentioned because a couple times after a full stop I go into first then quickly try to go to second as usual and either the gear indicator goes from first to nothing indicated and I have to hit the shifter again to get the indicator to come up and at least once the bike (I think the gearbox specifically though not sure) then made a sound like something was rubbing the tire which nothing appeared to be hitting any tire and the noise would go away after letting the bike cool and riding again---OR from a stop I put it in first brap, shift to second brap, then shift to third and again the indicator either goes from second to nothing or goes to third briefly then back to second.But this has only happened a couple times and im hoping that my new adjsutable clutch lever coming tomorrow or a clutch cable adjustment MIGHT help me out. not too sure

I felt like my bike was also really jerky when I first got it--like winding up speed/rpms in 2nd gear it sometimes lurched as the rpm climbed even though I was holding throttle steady and similar would happen as I deccelerated---but as it breaks in it seems like I have way less of that--at first I thought it was just carb related--now Im not sure if it was the carb breaking in/malfunction, the engine power train or drive train/transmission break in getting smoother or if it was a syptom of my fueling issues--and Im halfway sure I could track down the answer without advanced tools, but Im definitley too lazy to do that.!

I have a good amount of car knowledge, or at least I used to, as I don't remember how much of it I've forgotten!!-- 15+ years ago i started my work at Mieneke for 2 years doing everything from oil changes and brakes to engine and transmission replacements and swaps--Although I had most of the Automobile Series tests passed handily under my belt, I had very little experience, so usually on almost all the harder, larger jobs I would be assisting or overseen to some degree by a Master Technician who was at very least a Master in the A series tests but often the main few guys I worked with either had tests or Master status from other series and all but one of them had decades more experience than me working on cars at the time--anyways my point is that my motorcycle knowledge is way less than my decent car knowledge, I only recently started riding 2 wheelers on the regular, so I really don't know too much and I haven't even looked up anything about the Ninja 250 or seen it up close in person or never even watched a Youtube about any Ninjas. I have seen posters of like the Ninja H2R and growing up as a kid and teen I always liked the Ninjas I saw parked, usually in cities and when I was impressionable thought the riders were instantly cooler by stepping over the bike and twisting that throttle, shifting those gears,disappearing rapidly, and occasionally popping a wheelie lol.

Why do you think a Ninja 250 isn't a good starter bike? just wondering, since like I said I pretty much know jack. What would be a good starter bike for someone like me (who rode under 20k miles on scooters and recently only a few hundred combined miles on dirtbikes and this new Vader--plus tiny amounts of mostly dirtbike riding years ago) to get after this Vader or in addition to the Vader?


The problem with shifting is most likely not related to the clutch lever cable. On the FB clone groups others talk about these shifting problems being related to the gear box itself. Really, these are truly garbage. Especially the drive train.

A good beginner bike for someone who has driven dirt bikes and scooters on the street; A Yamaha MT-07

[sirmaxwell]

It's not bad. It's far better than say a CBR600RR, which is what so many dealers sell as a "beginner" bike. But I hear you. I think a TW200 is the perfect beginner bike, from a purely "teach someone how to ride" standpoint. Hard to stall, nice and low, not too heavy, easy to pick up, dirt cheap, and not destroyable. BUT... the ninja is a better all-around motorcycle. It won't be outgrown quickly. Hell, even after owning 20 motorcycles, I could live with a 250 ninja as my only bike. It's just extremely versatile.

I'm also actually not a superfan of my Buccaneer 250 as a beginner bike. I'm a huge fan of it as a motorcycle, but it's got a pretty tall seat height (31"), the levers are made out of cheese, and replacement levers take a week to 10 days to get from SSR. Between me riding off-road and teaching people to ride on the bike, it had probably been crashed 15 times. Smashed up the headlight trim a bit, bent the handlebars, even bent a lever or two. But never did all that crashing that made the bike unrideable.

My friend Carly bought a buccaneer, and has dropped it three times already. At a standstill. Each time resulting in not being able to ride for a week because she broke a lever.

Charles.


I just ordered these adjustable levers that LOOK nice, at least look nice to me as a motorcycle newcomer. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PX97DYK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

My bike fell over just once due to the kickstand on my Vader that shifts everytime you put it on the kickstand on flat ground and it will fall everytime if you don't wiggle/push it a little to make the kickstand shift to its final resting place while you are still holding it steady. Luckily I havent crashed yet, hopefully I did all my crashing (twice) for learning on my scooter last year. I broke the Clutch hand lever off at about the halfway point and I have rode at least 50 miles or so since that happened---I just recently have had a little funny business happening with my shifting/gearbox and I am really hoping I didn't mess anything up in the gears because I think it is harder to pull my clutch all the way in with half a lever, which means I probably havent been pulling it in all the way every time since it broke. These bikes will shift without using the clutch just like a semi-auto or "slipper-clutch" or whatever, but I have heard it puts excessive wear on some of the gearbox, make it fail sooner

Im glad your bike still works after all the crashing!

I don't feel like 31" is a high seat height since 26" is the bare minimum height to be street legal--in Connecticut anyhow. I'm probably 6' to 6'1" tops in a new pair of cross trainer sneakers, but without shoes I'm like 5'10" to 5'11" which is about average for an American male last time I checked--and I think m y Vader is 30" seat height, which is fine for me to get on and off, the lower the easier to mount it I suppose. It actually feels maybe a tad small for my legs as I ride, but it might partly feel small because the pegs/foot pedal and lever aren't placed forward and may be are even slightly sporty in their placement--I just make sure to bend my knee on the leg i throw over the seat when I get on and off to kind of get more clearance between my shoe and parts of the bke such as the rear turn signals, which look very easy to break with an unintentional slow "kick".

[ChopperCharles]

Yes well my friend who keeps dropping the bike is a short girl. Plus let’s be honest, a nice low seat height is a LOT easier to recover from a boneheaded low speed maneuver, especially for a new motorcyclist.

Charles.

[sirmaxwell]

Yes well my friend who keeps dropping the bike is a short girl. Plus let’s be honest, a nice low seat height is a LOT easier to recover from a boneheaded low speed maneuver, especially for a new motorcyclist.

Charles.


I see and agreed. I do like the relatively low seat height on my Vader along with it's light weight all makes it very manageable, especially as a newer rider but also I would like to think I will still appreciate it's nimble frame as I gain experience and perhaps add a little power to the bike. I suppose I wouldn't mind a couple inches shaved off it's height, although for me I would then (and kind of now) want the foot pegs moved a little down + forward or backward to give me some more room there. I wonder if your stock Bucaneer rear shocks are adjustable to the end of affecting seat height a little?

[sirmaxwell]

It's not bad. It's far better than say a CBR600RR, which is what so many dealers sell as a "beginner" bike. But I hear you. I think a TW200 is the perfect beginner bike, from a purely "teach someone how to ride" standpoint. Hard to stall, nice and low, not too heavy, easy to pick up, dirt cheap, and not destroyable.



Charles.


I just looked up the TW200 and it definitley looks fun to me! There are so many great things about motorcycles, including the plethora of different body and engine styles, different tire styles, different purposes bikes are made for. It also isnt too hard to change tires/wheels and maybe the shocks on a road bike to do some light trail driving at least. Plus motorcycles, at face value, are cheaper to buy than cars and I hope to own many very diverse motorcycles over the coming years. It's very funny (at least to me) to note that the owner's manual for my Vader reads that it was made for street riding or riding in fields also. I mean sure if you take it slow on very light and smoother off-roading maybe you won't ruin it or wipe out on the lightweight shocks and non-grippy stock tires--but to think even for a second it would be a good idea to take the stock Vader in any sort of bumpy and off-road environment, even a mild trail, is a bad idea and comical. I'm pretty sure the Vader would break and maybe crash quite quickly in a proper off road ride

[ChopperCharles]

Vader 125? Like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgqEsRSvViU


Charles.

[lineman55]

Do you think exhaust mod/new exhaust may make your Hawk feel better at higher speeds/rpm?

In my opinion 63MPH is pretty darn fast on a small displacement and fairly light bike like most of us on China Riders have. SO I would say you're doing pretty good hitting 63! I would probably chicken out on my Vader or not hold that highway speeds even if i eventually can somehow hit 60 with gearing,carb,exhaust... AND favorable wind maybe a slight downhill on really smooth pavement and speed tires would help too lol To go on the highway or at Highway speeds then I would maybe want a proper touring or sports bike with top of the line wheels, suspension and an engine that feels comfortable at 65MPH

My Benelli does 64mph stock. I did this yesterday. On 12" wheels, this is fast. Mine has fuel injection so aside from sprockets, there isn't too much to do with it. I know from my other bike, the computer is set to run stock, you change exhaust, intake, anything, it's not going to like it and you risk running lean.

[sirmaxwell]

My Benelli does 64mph stock. I did this yesterday. On 12" wheels, this is fast. Mine has fuel injection so aside from sprockets, there isn't too much to do with it. I know from my other bike, the computer is set to run stock, you change exhaust, intake, anything, it's not going to like it and you risk running lean.


which benelli do you have? not the Grom Killer T135? Or is it? I really might've gone with the T135 IF I had the extra cash when I ordered the Vader....

AND SOMETIMES I think why didn't I either save a little extra and/or just use the $1200 on an older used Big 4 Bike, not too fast, but either something I could grow into as far as the performance or I even setup a meeting to see a Kawa Eliminator--I think it was also a 125cc or 250cc tops and looked like a "Harley" style cruiser chrome in the adds--the guy only wanted $1300 in his Craigslist add...

BUT OTHER TIMES I am fairly happy with my purchase, I got my bike new with ZERO damage from shipping, I know the Entire history, so I hpefully won't have a "surprise" clutch job or tires that wear out inside the first season and couple thousand miles or whatever---Although, like just about everyone who ever ordered a clone bike, I do want new better tires, for now I am happy to wear the stock ones down as I finish the break in and do mods...WHICH brings me to my last point is I am very happy with this bike as far as I got it for being new, cheap, looks decent (though small) AND I got it to do mods mods mods!! Never ending mods to give me tinkering time in addition to ride time--its like therapy to me...I know the stock engine can go 5,000 to 20,000 miles without any rebuilding or clutch jobs as long as the rider knows how to shift ok...and whenever I get bored with the small engine then it's time for a $100 cylinder and piston BBK or a $350 150cc Lifan style swap, or the Holy Grail of Bolt On Swaps in the $650 ZS190cc swap AND if I'm feeling extra ambitious and a bit crazy then I Could but probably never would go with the difficult to swap in 300cc I think its a Honda engine a few people have done Youtube videos on. Its just an incredible bike for bolt on mods all over the entire bike ranging from super cheap to expensive-cheap...Might not be the best performance bike, but its lightweight so easy to manuever and puts a smile on my face with how it rides and the price and the mods so far :) :D :clap:

I was on vacation, I got back a couple weeks ago but it was raining the first week a lot. So this week I been busy but been riding more--Just got a VM22 Mikuni Clone carb with air filter, gaskets and new intake manifold, gonna throw on that carb and delete some of the vaccum leaks waiting to happen emissions stuff, plus got the must have fuel shut off switch with that, got gas and air lines to replace the stock that I know for sure will last most or all the bike's life--(although I AM actually really impressed with the quality of this bike because nothing has broken, even after taking apart panels multiple times they all still work and I have used ZERO Loctite and nothing has fallen off or come loose in the slightest,) Also I got the 17T front sprocket. I will throw all that on in the next day or within a week for sure, maybe post a couple pics.

After the new mods I will post a NEW TOP SPEED--looking forward to that 4 Sure!!! My current top speed --well I have only pushed the bike to 47 indicated and 45 GPS verified at close to 7,000 RPM with my carb not tuned and maybe the carb and clutch being tuned worse than factory possibly and from what I have seen others do with just the 17t sprocket and clone or Genuine Mikuni Carbs I think I can get it into the mid 50s maybe 55MPH at about 7000RPM even at my 200+lbs weight--I have seen one guy with these mods, plus freer flow exhaust and genuine Mikuni Carb going to an indicated 40+ MPH at like only 3000rpm to 4000RPm from what I could see in his Youtue vids he was hitting 40+MPH and his Tachometer with the RPMs wasn't really taking the right turn and turning the corner on the gauge at an indicated 40MPH--not sure how accurate his speedometer and RPM meter is from the factory plus with his mods...But if I can increase my top speed 5mph or 10mph and drop my RPM by 500 to 1000rpm or more versus factory then I am ok with spending the $60 for the carb with new intake and air filter included, fuel shut off, and jets kit!--and if I can achieve at least the extra 5mph or definitley the extra 10MPH with the mods and tuning at the same 7000 max RPM that I like cruising at then I feel good keeping this engine around for at least the rest of this year and maybe for years to come!! Heck That would even be really awesome because I could then throw on the Big bore kit and lower my rear sprocket teeth count to get another 5- 15+MPH on my top speed and really have a modded bike with still the core of the engine being stock!

[sirmaxwell]

I only had time to put on my 17 tooth front sprocket today, not the VM22 Clone carb also, because I was busy and had the front and rear fenders/chain guard and belly cowl to install. But I guess it's cool adding just One performance part at a time to see the effect of one part instead of throwing 2 or more and guessing which part changed what and how much.

Anyhow, I didn't do a full top speed run, maybe cuz Im chicken a little LOL but also the new sprocket install made me take off the chain and re-adjust the chain tension and I wanted to ride a few miles first to see if I did everything right and let the chain maybe stretch/ let the adjustments settle a little first.

I was very impressed by how just the 17T front sprocket gave me and for only like $8 on Amazon delivered!! It makes 1st gear usable instead of being a gear you skip or use only to get out of it asap--Now 1st gets up to like the high teens without doing a real high rpm shift--which is is the same speed I was shifting from 2nd to 3rd with the stock 14T sprocket. With the 17T I shift from 1st to 2nd gear at 17+MPH, 2nd to 3rd usually around 25MPH maybe 30 MPH max is doable, and 3rd to 4th before 40MPH usually the mid 30's if Im not revving high--but again I can probably easily shift from 3rd to 4th at or above 40MPH now if I push the RPMS I shift at to 6 or 7k+... I was cruising in 4th doing 45MPH at only 5000RPM with my 200+lbs fat ass and hit a high of almost 50 MPH at maybe 6000 RPM but not sure of the RPM and had to slow down cuz I ran out of road!!LOL--

AS a side note it is a little harder to handle/brake with the 17T sprocket when you get going fast becuse I thnk it gives you more momentum and your RPMS are lower at the same speeds than with stock 14T--SO with the stock 14T if you are cruising downhill at 40MPH You can just pull the front brakes for a second as you kill the throttle, then downshift and the engine braking is more effective with the 14T sprocket at the same speed since the RPMS are higher and therefore you can loose more RPM faster thru engine braking--Or I'm wrong and that's just very much how it felt haha--SO highly reccomended as best/cheapest performance mod--get the 17T first for the $8 if you want extra top speed and dont stunt and dont have very steep hills everywhere (although it still does ok on hills, just takes longer to hit the same speed uphill)..then get the carb next and tune it to try and regain acceleration a litte for the best of both worlds!

Im guessing with just this 17T sprocket I can probably hit 60MPH with enough road to speed up and stop safely without too much traffic preferably--and I am confident of 60MPH once I put on the VM22 Carb

I was also thinking of returning the VM22 Mikuni clone I got (but havent installed yet) AND thinking of ordering the PZ22 instead since I understand it is the same as our stock pz20, can even use the same slide/needle/top of the carb and had bulit in fuel shut off and adds some performance. It just looks wayyy easier and they have good ones for just under $20...shout out your thoughts on the PZ22 and other carbs or other speed adding mods if y'all have any to share for us all!!! As Always, Have fun riding and ride safe!! Peace!!!

Im thinking

[sirmaxwell]

I hit a GPS verified 49MPH today on a Top Speed RUn on my Vader with just the 17 tooth front sprocket Mod Before either the clutch slipped or I lost power because I accidentally left the choke on (oops!) The bike felt like it had more in it --I was gradually getting it past 40 and held it near WOT then when it topped out I twisted it the last 1/8 to 1/4 to WOT and it started pulling faster and was still speeding up when it slipped! :( I will be trying to see if I can hit 55MPH with favorable winds on a flat without doing any carb change/tuning/jets or any other mods BUT I have been frequently having the power loss problem, not every time, but often when I quickly accelerate to 40+MPH or when i gradually push it up past 45MPH--not sure if its clutch needs adjustment (i have adjusted it a lot from factory, not sure I did it right because this is the first bike clutch and first time I ever done one) or the fact that I keep leaving choke on. ANyone have ideas as to why I have power loss at high speeds?

[scoot newb]

What RPM are you at when this happens? If you use the same acceleration technique one gear at a time and in the same throttle position does it lose power?
Maybe I misunderstood what you said about leaving the choke on but that shouldn't cause the clutch to slip.

So far it sounds like a problem with the air fuel mix where the jet, needle position and or the air/fuel screw needs adjusting.

[scoot newb]

On mine, before the carb was jetted / adjusted properly, if I went WOT, at 6k RPM it would start to cut out. But I could go past 6k RPM without any problems if I was below WOT. Changing out the main jet fixed that right up.

I am not sure if the carb on yours can be adjusted or not. Maybe there are rivets instead of bolts preventing you from getting to the jets and the air fuel screw maybe capped. That is one of the main reasons to replace the stock carb. I know it is new and you want to break it in but you can still do it with a properly adjusted carb. In fact, it's better. You don't want to be running lean. Have you done a plug chop?

[sirmaxwell]

What RPM are you at when this happens? If you use the same acceleration technique one gear at a time and in the same throttle position does it lose power?
Maybe I misunderstood what you said about leaving the choke on but that shouldn't cause the clutch to slip.

So far it sounds like a problem with the air fuel mix where the jet, needle position and or the air/fuel screw needs adjusting.



Yeah see Im not sure what it is causing the issue. Im leaning towards its a carb a carb issue--AND I still have an all stock PZ20 or whatever came on it. Alls I know is sometimes it would all of a sudden lose power at almost 50MPH & near or at WOT as it was still climbing in speed, I think every time it was I would be on a flat doing 35-40, then hit a hill and maybe hold 35mph but pushing the throttle pretty good, then I would maybe let off the throttle just before the crest of the hill just a bit and finally after cresting the hill onto a flat I would crack the throttle pretty much instantly or fast to WOT and gain speed to 47 to 49 MPH and thats whe the power loss occured--AND every time it happened it startled me a little so I would usually get off the throttle, downshift and it would be running fine. I can only guess carb OR maybe since Im pretty big to be riding this at 205lbs maybe Im putting too much load on the por clutch lol... but I cant tell if it was the clutch slipping or a carb because it really only happened twice maybe 3 times very briefly

I do think these bikes are best for people 150lbs and under...BUT on a fairly flat part of a 20 min ride I just took I easily hit an indicated 49MPH on my speedo--which ended up being 48.8MPH on my GPS. I bet I coulda gone faster because I was only at WOT on a true flat or slight downhill for a few seconds at a time. Most of the time I was holding throttle at like 3/4 hitting 45-47MPH. I bet I could maybe hit 55+MPH. Maybe a little faster with a tuned or new carb. Probably I could hit 60mph like my friends if I weighed 150 or less like them

Thanks for the tips ScootNewb. I guess I will look to the carb either jetting the stock or putting on the VM22 clone I have and tuning that. I have hesitated hooking up the VM22 clone because it is different from stock and therefor not the easiest bolt on part. I am actually considering sending back the VM22 to Amazon and going with a PZ22 which most of the PZ22 also have dual inputs for fuel tanks like if I wanted to throw on a 5 gallon tank on the luggage rack if I am ever crazy enough to go on a long road trip on the Vader :D ! I have seen Venom do a Youtube video about switching out the stock PZ20 for a PZ22--I think Venom gets the stock bikes with the PZ20 and swaps in the Pz22 which requires zero mods if you get one with the built in fuel shut off and everything the same. I think the new carb and changing logos, maybe the sprocket is all Venom changes and charges hundreds extra

[scoot newb]

Yeah, it was kind of a hassle installing the VM22 at first. I am new to wrenching too. But I am glad I took a day to do it. I can now swap all that stuff out in a just a few minutes.

I got tired of trying to make the Hellcat perform well. I got a new motor for it. It is a big one. :-)

https://imgur.com/JQTSsQK.jpg

https://imgur.com/zQ0ifAn.jpg

[sirmaxwell]

[QUOTE=scoot newb;310246]Yeah, it was kind of a hassle installing the VM22 at first. I am new to wrenching too. But I am glad I took a day to do it. I can now swap all that stuff out in a just a few minutes.

I got tired of trying to make the Hellcat perform well. I got a new motor for it. It is a big one. :-)

Sweet. Are you planning on using the VM22 on the ZS190cc? I eventually want the 190 but not spending money on it quite yet so I haven't started looking into what is needed.

Make sure to post a new top speed after you get the new engine broken in a little!

[scoot newb]

The VM 22 is too small for the 190. I will prolly get a fuel injection kit for it if the PE 28 clone that comes with the kit doesn't work out.

The 190 kits come with everything cept stronger motor mount bolts. Those are only a couple bucks.

[scoot newb]

I forgot to mention there a couple of good Facebook groups. Clone Army, ZS190 Swap Page, and ZS190 Swap Shop. Clone Army is very active. I didn't use facebook but created an account just to access those groups. You can make up whatever name.

The zs190 kit from pitster pro comes with everything you need, and things you won't need (wiring harness etc etc). On our clones it is literally 2 bolts and 6 wires. Of course adjusting everything - clutch, throttle cable and tuning the carb will probably take longer than putting in the motor and connecting the wires.

https://imgur.com/N3Z4Ayl.jpg

[PhildoScaggins]

https://imgur.com/N3Z4Ayl.jpg

Nice! I still havent finished setting mine up yet. Unfortunately I need to get some pins and a crimper to do so. My six wires are in one of those plastic clips on my bike. Going to take the clip from my old motor and try to find some of those pins somewhere. The carb is a super tight fit, might want to get a spinner. I need a new filter already because it tore when installing it :/

[scoot newb]

Mine is still in the box. The pic was just to show the simplicity of the wires.

[ChopperCharles]

Those crimp connections are going to give you nothing but trouble in a few years. I'd put a MOLEX in there.

Charles.

[scoot newb]

Those crimp connections are going to give you nothing but trouble in a few years. I'd put a MOLEX in there.

Charles.

I was going to use these and the connector from the original motor so I can clip it in and out if needed.

These things are great if you don't want to solder. Just a heat gun and you're good to go.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074HZHD9Q/

[ChopperCharles]

Also a terrible idea. If you want a high quality strong splice and don't want to solder or buy the correct connectors and crimping tool, the only thing reliable and suitable for motorcycle use are Posi-lock connectors.

https://www.amazon.com/Posi-Lock-Connectors-14-16-gauge-601/dp/B00HTA8O9S/

I use those for my stator connectors on my vintage bikes. Almost universally the OEM connectors get brittle or melt, they're just not rated for the amp output and getting a little dirty just exacerbates the problem. These Posi Lock connectors have been reliable for years, and the wire itself will break before the splice comes undone.

Charles.

[scoot newb]

Also a terrible idea. If you want a high quality strong splice and don't want to solder or buy the correct connectors and crimping tool, the only thing reliable and suitable for motorcycle use are Posi-lock connectors.

https://www.amazon.com/Posi-Lock-Connectors-14-16-gauge-601/dp/B00HTA8O9S/

I use those for my stator connectors on my vintage bikes. Almost universally the OEM connectors get brittle or melt, they're just not rated for the amp output and getting a little dirty just exacerbates the problem. These Posi Lock connectors have been reliable for years, and the wire itself will break before the splice comes undone.

Charles.

The posi-lock isn't very waterproof. The Heat Shrink Butt Connectors create a good shrink wrapped solder joint.

[PhildoScaggins]

I was going to use these and the connector from the original motor so I can clip it in and out if needed.

These things are great if you don't want to solder. Just a heat gun and you're good to go.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074HZHD9Q/


I think I'm going to try this route. Thanks!

[scoot newb]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrQxt9ubFDA

[ChopperCharles]

If you actually solder them, yes. But if you just wrap the wires, that's not a good solution at all. And the OP wanted something that was undo-able in the future.

Charles.

[scoot newb]

If you actually solder them, yes. But if you just wrap the wires, that's not a good solution at all. And the OP wanted something that was undo-able in the future.

Charles.

The heat gun is enough to melt the solder ring inside the butt connectors. True though, they aren't very undo-able.

[scoot newb]

Getting close now.

https://imgur.com/al0DC0V.jpg

[SilverBullet51]

I must have a factory freak, I'm 250lbs and can top my Monster out at 65mph (on the factory speedo) on flat road. I've only removed the egr, and have a 17t front sprocket.

[ChopperCharles]

Took a Genuine G400C for a test ride the other day. Top speed is 80mph indicated. It wouldn't go even 1mph faster than that. And the vibration at that speed is pretty awful. It will cruise at 70mph easily, and even hold 75mph steadily uphill... but again, vibration city.

Charles.

[sirmaxwell]

I must have a factory freak, I'm 250lbs and can top my Monster out at 65mph (on the factory speedo) on flat road. I've only removed the egr, and have a 17t front sprocket.

Have you changed carbs or tuned the stock carb also? I have seen You Tube video of someone with a Lil Duc or Lil Monster only the same mods as you ( I think they also changed the carb) and they hit 63 or 64MPH on the (I think SoCal) Freeway. Also if you are hitting even the slightest downhill that might be half a degree slope or whatever gradual decline you can;t even percieve with your naked eyes, or maybe if you have no wind or wind blowing you forward or humidity and temp differences to change the air density and therefor resistance---ALL those things can give you quite significant changes! on the slightest downhill your added weight would actually increase your top speed---Im not saying you are going downhill or whatever, maybe the dealer tricked out your bike or who knows? Maybe you could also be hitting the imperceiveably slight downhill to get up near 60MPH, then you hit "perfectly flat" ground while still slowly taking that acceleration and momentum and energy with you from the slighest downhill to get the last 5ish MPH..possibly? Have you also checked your speedo vs a verified to be accurate GPS app or verified car speedo? After break-in I checked my 2019 Gen 1 Vader speedo vs GPS and campe up with less than a 1 MPH difference at 40MPH and then I checked my GPS vs a car speedo while going thru a Police Speed Radar display and my car speedo is Not digital, but both speedos and GPS and the radar seemed within 1MPH or each other. I can feel my bike get up to 40MPH or so reasonably fast then up near 50MPH and then it hits the wall of what at least SEEMS to be or maybe literally is severely diminishig returns on the amount of power you put in vs the gain in acceleration/speed you get back.

I would be interested in you objectively trying to check your speedos/GPS against each other AND against radar if it isn't much trouble and maybe posting a video here if you want. I think what you claim is possible, under the right conditions with the 124/125ishcc stock motors that come on all these clones. I mentioned the above video (with a new /tuned carb) hitting 63+MPH and have two friends who both claim speeds touching or slightly above 60MPH+ with just sprocket(s) and carbs/jets and air intake and maybe in all cases exhaust mods/swaps

This guy claims the usual stock top speed of 50MOH with only changing from a 20mm to a 22mm carb adn "shortening his exhaust"--whatever shortening it entails: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcLfn_9kmhg

I have talked to this guy thru brief YT comments. He is a cool guy, pretty knowledgeable about at least what he has done with the Vader and has been very nice to me and others answering questions and he has some decent Youtube videos of him riding and working on his Vader under the YouTube user name Y4shiRoku. He claims(and I trust him) his Vader has touched 60MPH with 17t front (Maybe rear mod too?) sprocket, genuine jetted/ tuned Mikuni VM22, has tried at least a couple exhausts. Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoX8DJ3aO-w

Im PRETTY SURE I have ssen another YT video of a stock displacement clone with sprocket, carb and probably other mods hit 63MPH on a highway/freeway, but am not going to spend additional time finding it. I KNOW FOR A FACT with the 17T front sprocket if you can get it up to redline @ 8400 RPM then the Vader would be going about 67MPH!!--IF no slippage were occurring--I got this number by using the data that I hit 40MPH with this setup @ 5000 RPM and about 48MPH @ 6000 RPM so the calculation to figure out speed based on RPM for this setup is 5000RPM / 40MPH = 1MPH gained per 125RPM increase...so 8400RPM / 125 = 67.2MPH ......SO to look at your setup, which is the same as mine(although you Haven't answered me whether or not ya swapped out your carb or changed ANY parts on your carb or fiddled with your carb or air intake or less importantly your exhaust either in any way at the time of me writing this. Also you have plugged your what you call EGR, although it's more of a system that adds fresh air to exhaust NOT Exhaust Gas Recycling as you claim, but thats ok--I HAVE NOT blocked mine off yet, Im sure that blocking it COULD help depending on the catalytic convertor and what is entering your exhaust prior to adding fresh air and without adding fresh air and on and on)

ANYHOW with, basically your gearing setup with that 17 tooth front sprocket and the rest stock like mine the calculation of ABOUT 125RPM per 1 MPH holds true so to be going 65MPH as you say your Stock speedo said your 125cc clone engine would HAVE TO BE GOING ABOUT 8,125 RPM (65 x 125 = 8,125RPM) which I think is certainly possible becuase I Think I have revved my bike that high at a stop and I have only just recently broken in my bike to my satisfaction, so I havent really tried a PROPER top speed run on a very long road giving multiple passes on a non windy day--but I have hit 54MPH without trying too hard with my 17t and otherwise bone stock bike AND it didnt take too long to get up to that speed at 3/4 or more throttle and I barely held it at about WOT for a couple seconds and it was still accelerating even if quite slowly when I hit 54MPH--so I think 65MPH IS possible, probably if your carb is new or jetted or simply tuned stock and certainly if you were going on a very slight downhill like I already mentioned, even if it wasnt enough for you to see or feel or if you had ANY wind pushing you forward on a flat I think you could have gotten near 65MPH--maybe your speedo was off a few MPH too--next time check your RPM and report that number in a reply post, IF ya want to compare notes and I will prob check after dark cuz I get bored n dont ride too much or too late at night cuz its dark n I feel --more dangerous. **The RPM to MPH calculation of every 125RPM = 1MPH with the 17 tooth front sprocket and otherwise stock engine and stock tires is a ROUGH estimate because it's based on me glancing dow at stock speedo(which stock speedo IS pretty accurate to within 1MPH every time I checked) BUT my calculations or speedo havent been verified at every speed to see if there are variations of the speedos accuracy at many different speeds but only checked that at a couple speeds and also at about 40MPH MANY times--ALSO my calculations DO NOT take into consideration any slippage--slippage in the clutch, chain or wheels or anywhere in transmitting the power from engine revolutions thru the gears and sprockets and chain links to the wheel and tire and finally to the road to propel the bike and myself forward. I would be more than a little interested if you took more data and posted more results!

As always, ride safe, keep thinking sharp, act responsible enough at all times and ENJOY LIFE!!

Quote of the Week: Bunk: [to McNulty] "There you go. Givin' a fuck when it ain't your turn to give a fuck." ---Bunk from The Wire TV Show

[sirmaxwell]

Getting close now.

https://imgur.com/al0DC0V.jpg

Your ride IS looking niiiiice Scoot Newb! You'd ougtha to change your name soon to keep your name with with your experience level if the install goes well :) Zong Shen Veteran or something...IDK... I know you can't see me thru the Internet, but if you could see me you would see the look of jealousy, admiration and me bowing down to you and your nice looking now 190cc Bike! Well done friend!

Do you happen to have a step by step swap thread or a link handy so I dont have to look it up lol...if not its cool I will find one but love seeing new swaps n builds! Kepp us updated with how it goes and pros n cons etc homie! I'm currently trying to decide between a 140/155/160/190cc crate engines and I know the smaller ones I just listed can take a piston/cylinder BBK for less than $200 to increase them to at least a 170 to 184cc and the 190cc has a 212cc basic BBK for also under $200--I'm trying to decide between them and a stock engine BBK in the form of probably just a $150 piston/cylinder jobby since adding the head cost starts getting the total mod cost crazy high for just the result of having a 141/146cc!--I have heard people hit up to 65MPH with the 141/146ccBBK (not sure if that's with just a piston/cylinder or also at least an additional over $225 new "race" head!)----65MPH as a top speed is about enough for me, and I think that would TOTALLy be worth it IFn it only takes the basic $150 piston/cylinder BBK jobby and a tuned VM22 and maybe a modded/cheap new exhaust would also be acceptable and thats what I would go for if I dont also need a head to go that fast--I just wish I could test ride a 125cc with a 141/146cc BBK to see if it also has the acceleration/ hill climb to make it enough performance both for what I want and for how much time/ money is put into the work and parts it takes!!!

[sirmaxwell]

17215Took a Genuine G400C for a test ride the other day. Top speed is 80mph indicated. It wouldn't go even 1mph faster than that. And the vibration at that speed is pretty awful. It will cruise at 70mph easily, and even hold 75mph steadily uphill... but again, vibration city.

Charles.


Genuine Website lists their G400c as having a displacement of 397cc in it's fuel injected, single cylinder, 350lbs when wet and ready to ride stock design. It's single cylinder engine with dual exhaust headers that end in a 2-1 Y joint makes 22-ft pounds of torque, 26 horsepower, a top speed of 80+ MPH (you got the 80MPH on your trst ride but DUDE you TOTALLY mossed out on the +!!! hahahahaha lol) The G400c looks jind of like a throwback to a 1970's Honda "Cafe Racer" type and could maybe be made to look like a Bobber with a seat/ wheel combo change, maybe? It has 18" rear and 19" front wheels, 31" seat height (just like Vaders, Bucaneers and all the "clones", and many small to mid size sport bikes etc etc I guess 31" probably is just right for the most amount of people plus anyone can easily change the height +/- 6" without too much cost or effort on most bikes) It gets 70+MPG. The G400c is listed for sale with an MSRP of ....DRUMROLL maestro.......... $4,599 !!!! woh woh wuh---ZONK! Maybe Dirty Harry said it best when he said: "You've got to ask yourself one question,"Do I feel lucky?".. "Well do ya PUNK?!" " ERRR Maybe I meant to say is the bike in stock for worth $4599 based on performance, reliability/quality, looks and potential resale value if you EVER might even think about selling it or want it to hold value. Perhaps IF you NEVER plan on reselling and want to keep insurance (and property taxes if you have them like I do) low--well then maybe you actually WANT the bike to lose value lol....Also is $4599 worth it as a base price to have a start for a build?? Decide for yourself at your own risk! I think it looks Great! & I would LOVE a bike of this style someday, even today IF I could easily afford it-- BUT I'm definitley NOT sure of the price because there are simply to many older bikes for less money with similar or better performance and too many new bikes with some similar specs that you could build up to be better for less money, and both used and new bikes that are significantly cheaper than the G400c and could definitley be modified to perform good amount better while still costing a significant total amount less IF a rider wants to put some work/time/effort in---AS a prepackaged, ready to go bike---ehhh, I think IF the G400c is quite reliable and IF you are ok with it's performance specs then I would say take it for a ride and if you like it and IF you have over $4500 to spend on a bike without missing the money at all then there are definitley worse bikes you could go with!! It might be an OK price but if it was $1000 less I would like it a whole lot more. Maybe Im just a cheapskate or getting old--I can still remember when hamburgers at my local McDonalds were like 35 cents or less 25+ years ago and now they are $1 more, at least in the overpriced are I live in! Gas was also under $1/gallon, times were good :) ---Link: http://www.genuinescooters.com/g400c.html

What Would Dirty Harry Say? : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38mE6ba3qj8

[scoot newb]

Your...


There isn't any step by step the closest thing I saw was an 8 minute time lapse video that offered nothing of value. It was shot from far away, it was dark and people stood in front of the camera. If anything the video was misinformation. Those people in the video had obviously done it before. They didn't use a jack (you should if you're doing it by yourself) they did it with the bike on the kickstand.

It really is as easy as they say. Use the jack to lift the motor to get the top bolt loose. Pound it through with a screw driver. I removed the swing arm and shock cause the bottom bolt on the Hellcat is up in there.

I replied in another thread, I forget the one but the swap is for the most part done. It took 4 hours. Most of the time was hack sawing off the lower mount on the stock exhaust so I could make it fit. Only to find out the stock exhaust was much too restrictive.

https://imgur.com/UXEgE5A.jpg

It hauls ass and for $640 including shipping for an entire ZS190 kit from pitster pro, I don't think you're going to find a better deal. BBK's meh.. Its just not worth the cost. Here and there it adds up and you'll find you've spent more than $640 in the long run for a bunch of bolt on parts that will not get you close to the 190. Plus you can even 212BBK the 190 and add a 4v head. I can only imagine that. For real, the 190 is ridiculous on it's own. Even poorly tuned with stock exhaust. New exhaust arrives tomorrow and so does the jet kit.

[sirmaxwell]

There .

Im surprised the stock exhaust fit at all!

Ive geard the BBK can add up to +10MPH to about 65MPH top speed with a tuned carb, probably the VM22 or equivalent probably sprocket(s) changed also but not sure if that includes the head change which costs a lot more by itself than the piston/cylinder. just the piston/cylinder is only $150--which seems to be around the same cost per horsepower gained of the ZongShen 190cc--that is until the ZS went on sale, I guess the ZS is only $64 per HP added BBK is around $75+


Let me know how you jet it and links to exhaust if it works out. See I guess one reason I was considering a BBK or a slightly larger YX crate engine that is set up exactly the same as stock is because it seems easier to do but yeah its obvious the ZS is better if you plan on keeping the bike because pretty much most or every rider will eventually want a faster bike until you sort of reach the limits of the design which is probably a 4v head on the 212cc kit maybe with a longer swingarm to increase wheelbase--or the crazy 300cc swap, but I've actually seen and heard that maybe the 300 is overkill turning it into a bulky drag bike and not what it was originally intended to be at all

I still have to jet or tune my stock carb which I keep putting off...every time it dips below 65 or 60 degrees and I try to ride it the bike will stall out after a minute or two of riding, probably not getting enough fuel I'm guessing.It was 50-55 when I rode this morning and stalled twice on a 2.5 mile ride...then twice once again on the same ride in the other direction home ..but runs perfectly fine in warmer temps--just dawned on me that I have a VM22 to install--maybe I could jet one carb for warm weather and one for colder , and leave the stock intake on the stock carb to swap back in real quick for cold morning runs to the convenience store. It gets cold enough to need a re-jet here overnight pretty much all year, just on and off for the summer months but still even then probably over half the nights drop into the mid 60's or well below

true it is a great looking deal for $640 to get the whole kit--and I don't see it probably ever getting any cheaper for the long term, just more expensive. Its looking better to me every day. If I can learn everything I need for it plus the little detailed steps in addition to the more self explanatory steps then I will be ready. I gyess I should order soon if I want to swap this year and get a good amount of riding in

SO you need a new exhaust...do you also need a new throttle cable? or anything else you can think of?

Your bike is definitley looking better than stock now :) Im difgiing the bars, grips 'n' mirrors -- It looks tighter, more complete with the new engine, plus the ZS is a nice color contrast

[ChopperCharles]

The other bikes on the market that comes close to the looks and styling of the G400C are the Yamaha SR400, which is quite a bit more, and the SSR (Italjet) Buccaneer 250i, which is quite a bit less. The SR400 is a physically smaller bike. I feel like a bear on a tricycle sitting on it. The G400C felt like a normal sized motorcycle to me, as does the SSR.

After test riding the G400C, I'm actually super happy I didn't wait for it, and purchased a Buccaneer instead. The vibration on the G400C, plus the lazy handling and weird seating position made me itch for my Buccaneer. The additional torque was the only plus the G400C has over the Buccaneer. The Buck actually has a higher top speed... but only under ideal conditions. (ie: Not going uphill, and not with my fat ass on it going uphill)

The price on the G400C seems a grand too high to me. Especially considering the cheap gauges and weird, unfinished footpeg brackets.

Charles.

[RedCrowRides]

@SirMaxwell - We might have gone through this in / on a separate thread already, but I had a similar fuel starvation issue on my Vader, and it turns out that where the tank bolts to the frame on the seat end is where the fuel outlet is- the tank was tightened down to where the fuel line was damn near crimped in two, as in flat from being crushed against the air emissions evac can that is mounted there under the tank .


I unbolted the tank, and added a washer or two under to uncrimp the fuel line ,before i later removed all that emissions stuff which eliminated the problem by doing away entirely with the evap canister .


Might be worth a look see to see if that is what is causing your fuel delivery issue ,as it seems to be a quite common issue possibility they way the bikes are assembled and where stuff is located. There are some rubber washers there that "ought" to prevent this from happening but cheap chinese rubber coupled with apparent gross over tightening at the factory squashed them flatter than a pancake resulting in crimped fuel line. For that matter, you need to get rid of the stock black chirubber fuel line and repl it with a good silicone fuel line, the ethanol in our gas here makes the chinese fuel lines start to break down and flake off on the inside , and these flakes will clog your inline filter or worse carb jet inlets.

[scoot newb]

I had a small epiphany today. These things are never done until you have around 4k sunk into it. Even now, I thought I did all the mods needed to make it sturdy and fast. Then you realize no. Now you need a better wheel hub and bearings... swing arm is garbage. It is a rabbit hole of time and money. I think I am going to put it away or sell it and move on.

[scoot newb]

FZ09, here I come.

[sirmaxwell]

@SirMaxwell - We might have gone through this in / on a separate thread already, but I had a similar fuel starvation issue on my Vader, and it turns out that where the tank bolts to the frame on the seat end is where the fuel outlet is- the tank was tightened down to where the fuel line was damn near crimped in two, as in flat from being crushed against the air emissions evac can that is mounted there under the tank .


I unbolted the tank, and added a washer or two under to uncrimp the fuel line ,before i later removed all that emissions stuff which eliminated the problem by doing away entirely with the evap canister .


Might be worth a look see to see if that is what is causing your fuel delivery issue ,as it seems to be a quite common issue possibility they way the bikes are assembled and where stuff is located. There are some rubber washers there that "ought" to prevent this from happening but cheap chinese rubber coupled with apparent gross over tightening at the factory squashed them flatter than a pancake resulting in crimped fuel line. For that matter, you need to get rid of the stock black chirubber fuel line and repl it with a good silicone fuel line, the ethanol in our gas here makes the chinese fuel lines start to break down and flake off on the inside , and these flakes will clog your inline filter or worse carb jet inlets.

Hey I appreciate the reply and I have had a crimped line in the past but for the last week or 2 I've been riding with one fairing off. When I first took the fairing off the fuel line was crimped closed AND caught in the carb--pulling the choke up, so I fixed that and it's been fine ever since--Except when it's cold out. Now I suppose it could be partailly crimped or has a funky emissions valve acting not right in the cold or something and the cold is just happens to be the straw that breaks the camel's back...but it starts just fine usually when cold out, I turned up the idle and it does somewhat better when I let it warm up at least enough to idle without stalling out--idling around 1200-18000 depending on where I adjusted it to that day...but even when I let it warm up I get a mile or so up the road give or take half a mile--it starts barely getting gas and struggling to run even when I twist the throttle, with little blips of the revs jumping way up to catch up to my throttle position, then the revs fall again and it stalls. Wont start again right away unless I cycle some air thru the carb vent and then it will start right up and go another half mile to a mile. Stalled out on me I think 3 times on a 4 to 5 miles roundtrip in the low 50 degrees temp range this morn--then I let it warm up to the mid 70s and Boom 10 mile ride no issues. This was driving me a little crazy for awhile and like I said I was also having a definite fuel line crimping issue, but Im 99.99% sure that if the fuel line isnt kinked up and it stalls then its most likely the cold temps outside for whatever reason.

[sirmaxwell]

I had a small epiphany today. These things are never done until you have around 4k sunk into it. Even now, I thought I did all the mods needed to make it sturdy and fast. Then you realize no. Now you need a better wheel hub and bearings... swing arm is garbage. It is a rabbit hole of time and money. I think I am going to put it away or sell it and move on.

$4000? That is a bit much to spend, I suppose...Although, On the other hand your bike looks really awesome, especially knowing what it was and what it is now!!! And probably it is fast enough to at least ride around town and have some serious fun on it! if not also take it on some lower speed Hogways or short trips on 65MPH highways at least. Sure, It won't ever be a Ninja H2R or GSXR or Yamaha 450 or CBR1000 without replacing about every part that came with the bike. I WANT a faster Vader and that's why I keep talking smack about upgrading...and I have the cash saved where I COuld mod it however..but Im trying to hold off on doing too much because this was always supposed to be a cheap bike for me, but I will definitley go for the BBk or a 140,155,160 or 190cc IF I feel comfortable with the rest of my life to drop a quarter or half a month of my savings for $650 in parts. Well It can't hurt to stop spending on it and maybe put it on the market to see what you can get at least. I've always thought that since I'm not really wealthy that it would make sense for me to sell my Vader either the same year I got it this year or someday soonish--even if I do a sick ZS190cc swap. ...It's a choice everyone has to make if they feel the ROI is high enough for them personally with what you get as an end result for your money, plus you are getting to hopefully have some fun and some positive time spent modding your bike (unless you hate doing mods--in which case probably a clone isn't for you!)...I feel like if I spent $1200 delivered on my Vader, + $10 sprocket, + $35 carb/air filter/intake boot, +$10 jet kit, +$650 ZS190cc, + $150 ZS grade exhaust, plus $45 for cheao bars/crossbar/pad/bar end mirriors--then I would still have a pretty nice NEW bike for $2100 and would have had also some fun and a positive, learning experience doing the mods...For some people maybe getting a 10 year old Used and medium abused mid sized Ninja or whatever you can get that's pretty much ready to go without any "mods", just needs to be kept p on with with repairs is better for them. I dont think you should feel too bad on spending some money on this bike, as long as you arent neglecting the rest of your life and ending up on the streets cuz of the Hellcat and Hellcat mods--you could have easily spent the time and money on any one of many many way worse things.---They say you have an addiction or a problem (like with spending money on bikes or whatever it may be) when something you're doing is negatively affecting other areas of your life---like drinking and getting fired at a job you need or having a GF that isn't right for you and spending all your money on her when you needed that money to get by with any comfort or whatever--that's kind of how I would judge whether or not what i am doing is a problem to be stopped and also if I dont like or if I dont love what Im doing I would or should also move on, but hey that's just me

[scoot newb]

4k is a real number. When you start in on the project you think loc-tight and a new carb is all you need. The further you go the more you realize it is never over until all parts are replaced. I get it though, you drop in a 17t and tune you're VM22 clone and it is done. But if you're looking for something reliable and rides well...

[sirmaxwell]

The price on the G400C seems a grand too high to me. Especially considering the cheap gauges and weird, unfinished footpeg brackets.

Charles.

Agreed. and I wasnt saying I completely dislike or even ahve a lot of points I dislike on the G400C other than what you are actually getting for the price vs what you COULD get in some other bikes--especially since I havent seen it in person, nor have I ridden it of course! I think it's a cool style--I have always wanted a bike that looks kinda like this
I dont like it if the gauges are cheap that's definitley a big drawback and on my Vader the gauges are a big plus for the price of the Vader anyways since my gauges are color changing, with tachometer included and in a style I like alright, plus fuel gauge, digital speedo that I have tested as being accurate to less than 1MPH off at 40MPH vs radar&GPS&car speedo, trip computer and time--that's what I would call a decent gauge cluister and definitley so for a $1200 bike!
If the G400C were a $G cheaper (or $2G cheaper!) then it would instantly be way sexier! it's a $4.5G+ bike with $2.5G performance and overall everything

[sirmaxwell]

4k is a real number. When you start in on the project you think loc-tight and a new carb is all you need. The further you go the more you realize it is never over until all parts are replaced. I get it though, you drop in a 17t and tune you're VM22 clone and it is done. But if you're looking for something reliable and rides well...

I havent even bothered using the leftover Loc tite I have from my scooters--thought I was all good then noticed an absent exhaust mounting bolt from a tab just south of the cat--not sure if I ever remember seeing the bolt since I got this bike 2 months ago--but wither way its gooone!

Is $4G what you spent on purchase and build? (not including insurance or dmv fees such as title/reg plates)

I would have not too much of a REAL idea what it costs to keep these going long term.. Ive only had this 2 months/almost 600 miles now..I do have 2 friends with fairly high mileage stock based engines but I have nooo idea what they spent on theirs and I know they spend a good amount of time, more than me by a lot working and trying bolt on or home made mods and switching the mods back or to something new if they don't like the mod...I agree it is like a rabbit hole. I have only fell down the research part of the Vader rabbit hole other than purchasing the stock bike so far...and oh boy how far I have fallen!!! (not saying I even know very much, cuz I dont...BUT for the amount of months maybe 4-5 since I first learned vaders exist that I can remember---during that time I have spent a good amount of time reading about different stuff and a lot of time just mulling over what I might do or what I want to do or what will I do if i had an unlimited budget or what looks cool that I probably will never spend the cash on or what do I think are worth it mods and it goes on

[sirmaxwell]

I also am at the point Im really ready for more power...the new 17t sprocket was the shit for the first day...my bike, to me, only rides well enough to do 4-5 mile laps around my neighborhood on 30MPH roads. on the 40mph roads even when im hitting cruising speeds in the high 40's I will have every car crawl right up in my up close & personal business...plus i choose to let any "real" bikers go past out of respect

[sirmaxwell]

I've also always been saying I don't think I would want to go much above 60moh on a clone--and even then I meant that high of a speed for short amounts of time and basically want extra power to maybe cruise at 50 to 55 MPH if it feels safe and also to accelerate a bit faster and vastly improve the hill climb. It would be quite a task to make these clones both ride pretty well and be reliable over 10 or 10s of thousands of miles while handling all or most of the power even an untuned basic ZS190 has to offer--another reason I havent pulled the trigger buying the 190 even though it undoubtedly has the greatest return of power for money spent on anything that I know of that easily goes into these clones and looks like it could be reliable. I feel like a tricked out 140s 141cc I think it woeks out to if you go by how the Chinese measure BBK MIGHT offer most of the power I ever need for getting around small towns and travelling a couple towns over and back on backroads occasionally for the most part is all I ever planned on doing with the Vader...but that gets really expensive for a really PROPER BBK more than just the basic cylinder/piston $150 combo--once you add the race head and cam to the point it's just about silly at $600 or even a couple hundred more than that

[scoot newb]

I've also always been saying I don't think I would want to go much above 60moh...

Neither do I. At least not without the tires balanced. The thing is even if the 190 can go faster, you could change sprockets to lower the top speed and the cool part is; You could really 'cruise' at 45 - 50 comfortably at lower RPMS.


I was almost ready to throw in the towel yesterday but found I just needed to make small adjustments I overlooked after the swap.

[sirmaxwell]

Neither do I. At least not without the tires balanced. The thing is even if the 190 can go faster, you could change sprockets to lower the top speed and the cool part is; You could really 'cruise' at 45 - 50 comfortably at lower RPMS.


I was almost ready to throw in the towel yesterday but found I just needed to make small adjustments I overlooked after the swap.


Well I hope you have some fun with the new engine on the bike. I feel like you could get some good use out of a Hellcat or vader with a 190cc, at least rolling around the county you live in staying in town or travelling a couple towns over and back or so, and maybe do a lil stunting-- you know do whatever you want to on most roads off the highway without doing more serious mods now that your bike is a 190--plus i think your bike looks cool with the mods---shoot I wish I had a 190cc on mine and the mods you have for sure!... I would even be happy for awhile with a 160cc like the 160 YX (in the pic) and maybe I would spring for the 160 if it was half the price it is--but its only a $20 short of what the whole 190cc KIT costs with the coupon!!
but even with decent savings being a class A Number One cheapskate without a great income and being pretty lazy isnt helping me accomplish that goal! hah Maybe I should just say eff it YOLO and buy the 190 or sell the Vader get a Retro and do the 190 or get a GSXR or an R6 and kill myself in a high speed crash like the one in the attached video link----https://youtu.be/zIDvQyECT6U Cuz YOLO, it's like the modern slang for Banzai!
Plus i currently have more pressing concerns including finding a new place to live probably have to move within 3 months or less from now which isnt easy after living where I live for the last 30 years. Im not exactly used to or skilled at house/apartment hunting plus I got a ton of personal stuff and am almost undoubtedly moving somewhere with loads less living and storage space. I'm even considering selling my bike so I wont have to move it or worry about where am I going to park it at an apartment or is it going to get jacked there even though I doubt I will ever live in a very high crime area, but a bike, especially a small light bike without a security system is an easy target, maybe poor people would jump on it as an easy way to make a month's rent selling it on Craigslist or some young hopper would want to go for a joyride and I also seriously doubt this move will land me in anything close to luxury apartments
It's got to be pretty darn easy to hotwire one of these--I'm guessing you just jump a wire in the ignition circuit which I have seen people just take off the headlight or front fairing on a scooter and borrow a small couple inches of wire that's elsewhere on the bike and plug one end of the wire to one part of I think the ignition plug to another part and then hit the electric start with no key an BOOm the thing would start. I know I have seen a video online too on how to hotwire a scooter that outlined exactly how to hotwire the Chinese scoots. Not saying I would likely get jacked, just that it is easy if anyone wanted to either by hotwire or removing the bike without starting it
17246

[sirmaxwell]

I keep seeing people, mostly people wanting to do the 190 swap, getting the "better" swingarms. I have no idea if that is neccesary or what the replacement swingarm is supposed to do so much better that it's worth replacing. Could be worth it I have no idea

[scoot newb]

I think it's cause the clone swing arms do not accept decent chain tensioners and just use rubber bushings instead of bearings. The rear wheel hub and bearings on the clones should be replaced cause they can get tore up from the extra power

[scoot newb]

I thought I already posted this. Anyway, this is the Lifan clone. It is a 150 with a 5 speed gear box. The motor doesn't have enough in to rev out the gearing in this video. But he does other top speed runs with different gearing. In the first vid, he made it to 64 GPS, in the comment section he said it hit 68 another time.


EDIT: LOL I just realized this is an upright motor. SMH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFKoQpyBDKU

[sirmaxwell]

In the first vid, he made it to 64 GPS, in the comment section he said it hit 68 another time.


Dang. Yeah he broke 60MPH hitting 61 in 4th gear on the part of the video I watched then he shifts to 5th gets uo to 64, sees a cop and doesnt want any part of that cop and slows down. Im guessing he's sort of hitting a wall with the gearing/power/wind resistance going 68MPH, cuz I bet it could go a little faster even if it takes getting the rpms wrapped out if he had power or aerodynamics to push the gearing to redline. I still havent completely wrapped out the RPMS in my Vader in 4th gear--only hit maybe 7500ish tops at 53MPH which is about as high as I like to go with my current setup--half expect the bike to cluck up if I keep pushing it much faster than that, especially since it has been at least a little windy or a lotta windy just about everytime I go out riding and I weigh 205lbs and havent tried much of a Moto GP tuck impression...Yet.... I wish I could just get the 190 engine without paying. going to decide this week whether or not to buy it at this approximate junction in time

[Buccaneer]

For my 2018 Italjet/SSR Buccaneer 250i:

72 mph, two-way average, GPS measured, under carefully controlled conditions.

Details here: http://chinariders.net/showpost.php?p=312804&postcount=5

Buccaneer

[Df250rts.club]

103mph nodded Df250rts
GPS phone app
K&n air intake
Deleted airbox
94octane
Octanebooster
Mikuni vm26 30mm
Sai deleted
Jetted
18tooth front sprocket
34 tooth rear sprocket
Cassoli Cdi
3 miles of straight away

Not recommended going that fast bike was vibrating alot and rpms screaming http://df250rts.club/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/20190821_182011.jpg

[culcune]

103mph nodded Df250rts
GPS phone app
K&n air intake
Deleted airbox
94octane
Octanebooster
Mikuni vm26 30mm
Sai deleted
Jetted
18tooth front sprocket
34 tooth rear sprocket
Cassoli Cdi
3 miles of straight away

Not recommended going that fast bike was vibrating alot and rpms screaming http://df250rts.club/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/20190821_182011.jpg

Would love to see video of it. Not recommending to try 100 again, but rather in the 80s and or 90s. We have one member who hits the 80s on his dual-sport in the mountains of Colorado, but you are the first to claim 100, at least on a common 2xx cc thumper (I believe yours is a 223cc Dongfang proprietary version of the Zongshen manufactured engine).

[wheelbender6]

103mph nodded Df250rts
GPS phone app
K&n air intake
Deleted airbox
94octane
Octanebooster
Mikuni vm26 30mm
Sai deleted
Jetted
18tooth front sprocket
34 tooth rear sprocket
Cassoli Cdi
3 miles of straight away

Not recommended going that fast bike was vibrating alot and rpms screaming http://df250rts.club/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/20190821_182011.jpg

That is possibly the first street legal 250cc China bike to do "THE TON".

[scoot newb]

I've hit the 70's but I don't like to go any faster ATM cause I don't have a catch can and having oil blow all over the rear tire from the vent hose doesn't sound fun.

Still one more gear and a few RPMs to go.

https://imgur.com/sGiATEu.jpg

[Emerikol]

I've still got the original stock knobbies on my Hawk, and I've had it up to 71 indicated before. Not something I would like to do again. It gets really sketchy and loose-feeling. Maybe when I burn through these tires I'll get something like a Shinko 705 (what I currently run on the DR), and then see how it feels. I think I'm going to replace the front tire at the same time I replace the rear, just to get away from the stock front tire. I'll also probably get a new set of wheel bearings while I'm in there. So to recap, 71 mph on the clock, but I was not at all comfortable with how it felt. I usually cruise the Hawk around town at about 50-55 or so, and it feels ok.

[Df250rts.club]

After the hurricane blows through I'll post a video.

[Df250rts.club]

Would love to see video of it. Not recommending to try 100 again, but rather in the 80s and or 90s. We have one member who hits the 80s on his dual-sport in the mountains of Colorado, but you are the first to claim 100, at least on a common 2xx cc thumper (I believe yours is a 223cc Dongfang proprietary version of the Zongshen manufactured engine).


Yes 223cc . I forgot to included that it is ported

[Df250rts.club]

I've hit the 70's but I don't like to go any faster ATM cause I don't have a catch can and having oil blow all over the rear tire from the vent hose doesn't sound fun.

Still one more gear and a few RPMs to go.

https://imgur.com/sGiATEu.jpg

Hellcat can hit 85 ewith the df250rts.club 's performance stage 3 kit like $100 will have that puppy screaming

[scoot newb]

LOL what? Please send a link to this kit.

It almost does 85 now and I will test that theory as soon as I get a catch can. I plan on putting in the 4v head, 212 kit and cam. At that point it will hit around 100. Mike Davis has done it. In the photo, I am in 4th there is still one gear left to go. It is hard to brap at 70+ in 35mph zones.

[franque]

It won't do 85 on a motor with their kit installed unless it has a serious amount of work done to the motor, and I'd be shocked if you'd get 90 out of even a 212, much less live to tell the tale of you got a hellcat going that fast.

Even if you've got an extra gear to pull, a stock 125cc 4t motor won't pull hard enough to do more than ~70.

Their kit is basically a pod and a sprocket, and too much money IMHO for not much. You can source everything off of eBay for half or less of their price. Buying from their site will just fleece you.

[scoot newb]

It won't do 85 on a motor with their kit installed unless it has a serious amount of work done to the motor, and I'd be shocked if you'd get 90 out of even a 212, much less live to tell the tale of you got a hellcat going that fast.

Even if you've got an extra gear to pull, a stock 125cc 4t motor won't pull hard enough to do more than ~70.

Their kit is basically a pod and a sprocket, and too much money IMHO for not much. You can source everything off of eBay for half or less of their price. Buying from their site will just fleece you.


I haven't had the 125 in it for a while. There is a video on one of the FB clone groups... a Vader with 190>212, 4v head and a cam hitting 101. I think it also had a 30mm carb... But you're right I do not plan on going 85 very often if at all. I just want lots of pull around town and for short braps on the highway. The 190 is pretty fun but I wanted just a bit more.

A pod and sprocket. Good god. :hehe:

[franque]

Correction, it also comes with a VM26 knockoff.

[scoot newb]

Correction, it also comes with a VM26 knockoff.

Ah. I currently have a PE28 knock off that came with the 190 kit. It is still not quite tuned right. I may pony up and get a real one but I thought I should just put that money towards the new head and bbk then get a 30mm carb

[ChopperCharles]

So, over time, it's been harder and harder for me to reach the same top speeds I once easily reached with my Buccaneer. I still can get the higher speeds tucked in behind traffic, but free and clear in the open air, not so much.

Well, a couple days ago I noticed my revs climb just a bit when I chopped the throttle and then immediately gunned it in 5th gear at 70+mph. And after that, I experimented a bit more, and I definitely have clutch slip. It's not noticable in the lower gears, but in 5th on the highway at > 70mph with all that headwind, I can make it slip pretty easily now. It doesn't slip a lot, but enough.

What's the general life of a Chinese clutch on a 250cc bike with a fatass rider? I've got just under 7000 miles on it so far.

Fortunately my motor is an XV250 Virago copy, so I've ordered a Barnett clutch and springs that should drop right in.

Has anyone else had to replace a clutch with relatively low miles?

I guess in bigger bikes I've also worn out my share of clutches. OEM clutch in my V65 Magna lasted to about 16k miles. Barnett clutch lasted another 74k after that, before it too was worn out. CX500 clutches worn out in about 20k miles. But this is the first 7000 mile clutch :)

Charles.

[scoot newb]

I'd just a little under 7000 miles if you're experiencing the slip.

[Larlarte]

I can't argue against the Rm-80. maybe gearing and other parts that came factory on the Rm are just better.
On a side note I've heard many people saying 2-strokes will be dead before long I guess mostly due to emissions--even the top of the line direct injection clean ones its like they have already pretty much done all they can to clean up emissions on those so as the new CARB and Euro emissions keep getting tougher plus many, not all but many companies have been getting away from making them partially or sompletely andaren't investing in new 2T tech. I don't think we will see them too much longer.
I used to love my 2 stroke mopeds and an old dirtbike my brother had and my hedge trimmer (https://www.backyardstyle.com/best-electric-hedge-trimmer/) and chain saw.

and oops I meant to say b4 the 4stroke makes more torque per cycle and at the same RPM the 2T has twice as many cycles. Still I have seen people do all sorts of grom and grom clone wheelies, personally Im not very good at wheelies

I completely may agree with you.

[daytonacat]

Got a 2020 Boom Vader this past March and am still in the process of break in. I have had it up to 47 mph a few times on my way to and from work. Straight and level road for about 1 1/2 miles each way. I calibrated the speed-o and it is accurate up to the 47 mph I have had it at. checked it against a know accurate gps as well as a police radar gun (my neighbor is a police officer). Only mods at this time are the 17tooth front sprocket, replaced the stock chain with a HD DID 428 chain and added an oil cooler for the motor. At present the bike has 119 miles on it and like I said only gone up that high a few times. Am 6'2" and 255 lbs to boot. I did still have a bit over a 1/4 throttle left on the bike at that speed. I do have a new PZ22 carb for it as well as an assortment of metering jets when it comes time. Any idea on what jet to at least start with when I do decide to swap out the stock carb? The shifting is still a bit clunky (sounding ) and getting into neutral is getting easier as well (especially going to neutral from 2nd gear). I love the little beasty and use it mainly for going to and from work. (only about 5 1/2 miles). Would I buy one again? Yes as well as a 250 multi purpose bike.