Fork oil on Storm

[Duggo]

Changing the fork oil on theStorms inverted forks is different than the Hawk.

I dont even know what inverted means, but that's what they are called.

I couldn't figure out how to disassemble them. I cracked the top of the forks and then I took each fork out. But after that, they just spin forever.

I'm afraid to mess with that metal ring, as I'm not a mechanic, I'm still learning.

Can I just open the bottom allen wrench deal, drain it, but then how do I get the fresh oil in there without making a huge mess?

[pete]

to do a oil change on USD forks requires a full strip...
But the cheap Chinese USD forks are only USD in looks..
basically the standard forks built up side down..
Bottom allen bolt.... normally that's where the rebound damping valve is.

So I would say that holds the damping rod as in normal forks...

The real different is the spring is compressed by the slider not the damping rod..
the head of the damping rod runs in side the spring.. but they do not come apart
like normal forks by un-doing the damping rod bolt....you have to unscrew the alloy casting off the bottom of the slider "shiney chrome tube"

remove the top cap.... tip them up side down and pump them a few times..

[NzBrakelathes]

If all you need is to drain the oil take it out open the top and drain it out.
The allen key underneath hold stuff together and I recall that being a pain in butt.

Top off, fork out drain maybe push in n out to drain it fully. (Spring comes out ? I think)
If you do not have much skill don't try to take the Allen bolt out or try to remove the bottom part of shock that screws off - gets a bit messy n complex but if you had to do the seals then you would need too.

[Wild Dog]

If all you need is to drain the oil take it out open the top and drain it out.
The allen key underneath hold stuff together and I recall that being a pain in butt.

Top off, fork out drain maybe push in n out to drain it fully. (Spring comes out ? I think)
If you do not have much skill don't try to take the Allen bolt out or try to remove the bottom part of shock that screws off - gets a bit messy n complex but if you had to do the seals then you would need too.

100% agree on this, do not take the botton allen. You may be able to put the allen again without using or you are going to have a nightmare...

With a long hose, you are going to be able to fully drain the oil in the forks.

[Duggo]

With the large top dampening cap open and the fork out, you can tilt it upside down and some oil with drain out. I'm sure if I pumped it, a bunch would come out.

I chose not to do that, because then I would have an empty fork. There doesn't seem to be a place to fill the oil back up. Certainly, not with any amount of responsibility.

The videos say that for the Hawk, about 210 ml of 15W should work well. Based on what MegaDan says. I'm 6 foot 220 lbs, so maybe a little less.

But that doesn't matter if I'm just dumping oil all over the damned place. Or do I just dump it into the golden colored sleeve. I think it should go into the interior silver sleeve, but maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe I should get a syringe and use that to load it?

[Megadan]

With the large top dampening cap open and the fork out, you can tilt it upside down and some oil with drain out. I'm sure if I pumped it, a bunch would come out.

I chose not to do that, because then I would have an empty fork. There doesn't seem to be a place to fill the oil back up. Certainly, not with any amount of responsibility.

The videos say that for the Hawk, about 210 ml of 15W should work well. Based on what MegaDan says. I'm 6 foot 220 lbs, so maybe a little less.

But that doesn't matter if I'm just dumping oil all over the damned place. Or do I just dump it into the golden colored sleeve. I think it should go into the interior silver sleeve, but maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe I should get a syringe and use that to load it?
Yes, do pump the fork to get as much fluid out as you can.

Fill the fluid through the top just like you poured it out. If the cap is still connected to the rod at the top (if it has one) then a funnel is rather handy for making it easier to add fluid without making a mess.

Fluid sits in both tubes. This is one drawback to USD forks as the fluid sits in the upper tube above the seal that faces down. Once they start to leak, they tend to puke most of their fluid out because of this.

As far as volume. That 200ish mL measurement is for the Hawk's small traditional forks. Your larger diameter upside down forks are going to take more oil. Likely at least 300ml. The CSC TT250 takes about 330mL of oil I believe, and that is the amount I would go with as a good analog, unless somebody has the specs for the storm. That's 330 with the fork having been fully drained by pumping the tubes.

[NzBrakelathes]

You could try just turning the whole bike upside down :clap:
LOL:lmao:

[Megadan]

You could try just turning the whole bike upside down :clap:
LOL:lmao:

Remove the caps while doing a wheelie? :hehe:

[Duggo]

Take a look at the pics. The oil barely drains out throught that clip looking deal under the cap. I can get the oil to drain real slow, but how would I get fresh oil in there?

[Megadan]

See the two flat sections above that retainer and below the cap. That is meant for a wrench to hold that inner shaft so you can then unscrew the cap from the rod. From there you should be able to get that clip/retainer up and out of the way. Just watch out if there is any spring tension there and keep your face clear. I am not wholly familiar with how these budget chinese USD forks are assembled, so I won't be much help. They aren't quite the same as a more standard USD Showa or KYB cartridge fork.

If you can, post some good detailed pictures of how the parts are oriented for assembly. That should help the next guy out quite a bit.

[Duggo]

Alright, I got a pile of stuff now. I hope 330 ml is what I should fill it with.
For what it's worth the oil that came out wasn't bad looking. When I changed the crankcase oil, that shit was butterscotch pudding, I'm glad I did. The fork oil looks reasonable. Ill try to get a pic of the other fork oil,

[Duggo]

I feel like once I fill it with 330 ml of 15W oil, it's going to be tough to get that clip and nut on, but we will see.

I left the top rod piece out of the assembly order. Look farther down and it will show which direction it should be seated at the top of the assembly.

[Duggo]

The fork oil came out not horribly filthy, but I would say at maximum, there was 200ml in each one. Does anyone know what I should put in there?

The milk jug photo is what the engine oil looked like straight out of the machine, with zero hours on it. Yuck.

No more pics until I figure out what I need to put back into the folks. I'm 6'0" 220 pounds and I'm using 15W fork oil, becuase thats the only weight my carquest place had. If I should use a different weight, then I need to know that too.

Thanks for all the help up to this point. I'm trying to give back with pics, is there anything you want to see that I havent shown at this point?

There is a washer at the bottom, below the spring, but above the metal rod piece. It kind of feels like it has a smooth side and a rough side. The both came out randomly, so I hope that can go either way,

[Duggo]

Better picture of the assembly order.

[humanbeing]

If it's 2xxml ie. the narrow fork (330ml is for the thicker forks as Qlink XF/ XP200...) Spudrider had good tips http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=10266

[Megadan]

If there was only 200ml of fluid in those forks then they were underfilled. Here is why I say that. I borrowed a couple of your pictures for an explanation...

On the bottom of the upper fork tube (Green Arrow) is a seal and dust seal. On the lower fork tube there is a bushing (Blow Arrow). The seal is there to keep the fluid in and the dust seal is there to protect the seal. The bushing is there to stabilize the two tubes but allow movement. That bushing needs oil for lubrication as does the seal. I will come back to the purple arrow in a minute.

https://i.ibb.co/ZVn43qR/Inkedforks-LI.jpg

The damper would actually be the Orange Arrow. This is evidenced by the holes (Yellow Arrow) that are there to regulate the amount of fluid passing through to provide damping of the suspension travel. Notice this also has a bushing on it that also acts as a damper seal to separate the oil between each side, thus forcing the fluid to travel through the holes. Going back to the purple arrow, this is the area that fluid travels in and out of the holes of, and thus filling the space in the upper fork tube.

https://i.ibb.co/XVSdSbf/Inkedforks11-LI.jpg

So with this all in mind we know that there needs to be fluid on both sides of the damper in order for proper damping to take place as well as to lubricate the bushing on the lower fork tube and upper tube seal, even at full extension. The reason the fork oil volume is much higher for these USD forks has to do with that upper and lower fork tubes being a larger diameter - it has a larger volume. In order to get enough fluid in there to do everything I described it will take 300+ml as you saw since 200ml wasn't even enough to effectively fill the fork lower.

As far as filling it goes. Once you reassemble the forks and slide that upper tube back up, you will fill through that upper tube (Green Arrow) between it and the damper that was held in place with the retainer.

As Pete stated, your fork is essentially just an inverted version of a traditional fork. It has no valving like a more common USD fork with a cartridge. So with that in mind, like my traditional forks, the weight of the fork oil can be used to tune how firm or soft the damping is (slow or fast). I always recommend 15wt as a starting point simply because it is in the middle of the available fork oil weights. From there if you want less or more damping you can simply change to a lighter or heavier weight oil.

Going back to the second picture, the red arrow is pointing to the spring spacer. In this case, I would state that the washer goes between the springs and the spacers just to give the spring a wider seat to rest on. You can adjust the length of these spacers to tune in your preload for setting rider sag. Longer for more, shorter for less.

Looking at the damper makes me wonder if the rebound damping is a part of the center rod that holds the upper damper and spring, or if the upper damper is the rebound and the compression is on the lower. The latter seems more likely to me. I wish I had a set of these forks to do a full tear down on so I could look at all of the parts.

Again, since there is almost no information on this particular fork design, this is merely an educated guess on the actual volume required. If there is somebody that has done a fork oil change on these particular forks that can chime in I would graciously accept whatever they stated they used.

[Duggo]

Well, 300+ is too much. It fills the fork to the rim. So, Im going back to 200.

But, that's not the hard part. How in the hell am I supposed to fill the fork and then compress the fork enough to get the nut and washer on, without the oil draining out onto the floor. Not only is it hard to compress, but it's oil and that make it worse.

If I compress the fork and get the nut on, which is going to be a 2 man job, then how do I get the oil in there?

This is getting aggravating. Maybe I should have taken it over to the dealer and just asked them to charge them up with freshie. But, Im trying to learn here.

[Duggo]

I was a little too pissed off on that last post.

I got the washer and nut on, just muscle it down and quickly put it on there.

Now I have an empty fork. The only way I see to fill it is with a syringe and needle, which I do not have. Maybe Ill get lucky with the other auto parts store in town tomorrow.

Anyway, 300 would be the absolute max ml, right up to the top. I think I'm going to go 250 tomorrow and see what happens.

I'm at an impasse until I figure out a way to get oil down in there.

Thanks for all the help today.

[Megadan]

Well, 300+ is too much. It fills the fork to the rim. So, Im going back to 200.

But, that's not the hard part. How in the hell am I supposed to fill the fork and then compress the fork enough to get the nut and washer on, without the oil draining out onto the floor. Not only is it hard to compress, but it's oil and that make it worse.

If I compress the fork and get the nut on, which is going to be a 2 man job, then how do I get the oil in there?

This is getting aggravating. Maybe I should have taken it over to the dealer and just asked them to charge them up with freshie. But, Im trying to learn here.

This is all good to know info, but it does suck having to be the guinea pig. Like I said, I am unfamiliar with Storms and their forks, so it is merely speculation on my part. If 200ml works, I can't argue with it.

You should still be able to fill the oil through the outer tube. The damper has holes in it to allow fluid to pass through, that is what the yellow arrow is pointing at. Get the retainer and nut back in place, then screw the cap back on, add fluid through the outer, and then add a little fluid at a time and give it chance to run down into the lower. If you need to, add the fluid, screw the cap back on to the upper and cycle the fork a few times. unscrew the upper tube from the cap, add more. This is a common practice when filling USD forks even on mainstream bikes. Even on the Hawk forks you can't add it all at once and have to let it bleed the air out.

Did you cycle the fork at all when adding that 300ml? Did any air come out while pouring it in? I ask because if you try to pour in 200ml into a Hawk fork in one go without cycling it, it will fill really high and even overflow if the upper tube is all the way down. Yet once the system has the air bled out, there is a 170mm air gap with the tube all the way down.

I am sorry if I am seeming to not help. I am doing my best given the situation at hand.

[Duggo]

I think I have to fill the oil up in this space, which is going to require the syringe.

[Duggo]

I dumped the 300 in there before putting the retainer and nut on. Not the smartest move I've made today. So no, I didnt cycle it, it filled up the main chamber all the way to the top and onto the floor. :)

I see what you mean that I could pour in a little, let it drip down, add more, and it would take forever. I may still do that. I'm fed up for tonight I think.

Thanks for your help Dan. I realize you're kind of taking educated guesses on some of it. If it wasnt for you telling me about that nut and retainer, I would still be at step one.

You keep giving me ideas and Ill keep using them. :)

[Megadan]

I dumped the 300 in there before putting the retainer and nut on. Not the smartest move I've made today. So no, I didnt cycle it, it filled up the main chamber all the way to the top and onto the floor. :)

I see what you mean that I could pour in a little, let it drip down, add more, and it would take forever. I may still do that. I'm fed up for tonight I think.

Thanks for your help Dan. I realize you're kind of taking educated guesses on some of it. If it wasnt for you telling me about that nut and retainer, I would still be at step one.

You keep giving me ideas and Ill keep using them. :)

I am always good for ideas if nothing else. Believe me, I have had to learn some stuff through trial and error with the Hawk. Generally hurting my wallet more than anything lol. Experience is the greatest teacher! You should be a Guru of Storm forks by this is over with. I just want to learn everything I can from this as well for the next guy that comes along. Honestly if you were within a couple of hours from me I would offer to come and help figure that stuff out. It would be fun to do a long trip on the Hawk.

[Duggo]

Google maps says about 11 hours.

I just hope Napa has a syringe tomorrow. There is oil splattered all over my garage floor now and I hate that shit.

I was holding up the fork with my left hand and trying to open a valve deal with my right to get the oil in there. Needed a spare set of hands. It's all over the place now.

There is a motorsport place in town, maybe they would sell me the syringe deal, but Im sure it will be marked up 200%

[Its_not_a_honda]

I filled mine with 200 ml. Rode it. Bottomed out hard. I just kept filling until I got the ride I wanted. I think I ended with 245 ml. I loosened the top allen in the triple clamp. Then took the cap off and filled with 10 ml of 10 wt. fork oil. Each time bike was on a stand with forks fully extended.

This was very time consuming but worth it in the end.

[Duggo]

That makes sense, now that I have torn the thing apart. It would take a long time for that 10 ml to bubble down, then add 10 more, until you got what you were after.

Thanks for the info.

[Megadan]

I filled mine with 200 ml. Rode it. Bottomed out hard. I just kept filling until I got the ride I wanted. I think I ended with 245 ml. I loosened the top allen in the triple clamp. Then took the cap off and filled with 10 ml of 10 wt. fork oil. Each time bike was on a stand with forks fully extended.

This was very time consuming but worth it in the end.

Kick ass! Great post and thank you for sharing! :tup:

[pete]

I used a bicycle pump to fill a car gear box once...
and those pump top lotion bottle also work...
slow but they do the job...



….

[Duggo]

Now that I've tossed and turned all night thinking about this damned thing, I think I know that 300 ml will fit. 300 put me right at the top of the main spring pipe, without adding that last section of pipe (see the assembly pics). 300 would put me right at that line, which is still too much I would think, but it would fit.

[goat67]

Hello
I can chime in here.

I changed the fork oil on my Brozz. I did not take anything apart other than the top, I drained out what I could and added 250 ml. I used ATF fluid.
I forget the brand but it was recommend here in some thread.

I am going to do this again as I am not happy with the amount of compression I get when braking, I am going to go with Maxima 20 wt fork oil.

I am not sure if I could add more than 250ml what would be the best way to determine if I can use more than 250ml?

[Duggo]

Look at the purple arrow on the picture of me holding the assembled fork.

300 will take you up to that line, a little more than that line. I'm going to test that out in 15 minutes when the auto store opens up.

You could fill it up into that pipe above the purple arrow if you want. That seems like a lot of compression and just doesn't seem logical too me. Because it's going to come out of the drain holes and always be over compressed, if that makes any sense.

Using heavier fork oil makes the most sense if you want stiffer.

[goat67]

Great waiting to hear on how it feels. What weight oil are you using?

I need to do something as it really dips when braking right now.

[Duggo]

Bashan Storm will take 300 ml of 15W fork oil. It's official, I've done it.

I'm not a good enough rider to tell you how it rides. I just bought the damned thing a week ago and have assembled it and changed the fluids and whatnot. I've got a grand total of 28 Km of riding experience. :)

[goat67]

Good to know, Good luck and have fun with it.

[Megadan]

Bashan Storm will take 300 ml of 15W fork oil. It's official, I've done it.

I'm not a good enough rider to tell you how it rides. I just bought the damned thing a week ago and have assembled it and changed the fluids and whatnot. I've got a grand total of 28 Km of riding experience. :)

Now, if it needs 300ml is a different question. the level of air gap left in a fork once you seal it back up will have an effect on how it rides. as the suspension compresses, so to does the air inside of it. The more it compresses, the firmer it gets - this is known as the air spring effect.

Let us known how it rides once you put some more distance on it. You don't need to be an experienced rider to make observations in simple terms.

[wedooit]

How is the project coming along? Get it back together and on the road?

[Duggo]

How is the project coming along? Get it back together and on the road?

I got it back together, but it's been snowing and I haven't test ridden it yet. It snowed 3 inches last night.

[ChipToothy]

I did 250ml of synthetic atf fluid on my Storm. It changed nothing, the stock oil was nearly crystal clear and slightly thicker than the atf. I believe the brake reservoirs and forks were filled with the same quality dot 3 brake fluid. They are identical in every way.

[ChipToothy]

I got it back together, but it's been snowing and I haven't test ridden it yet. It snowed 3 inches last night.

It’s been 85 here everyday. Mosquito heaven!