230 cc

[ChipToothy]

Kawasaki has a new kid in the block. All new 230cc. I doubt the USA market will tolerate it so don’t look for it at your local dealership. She’s pretty tho :))

[2LZ]

Interesting. I take it it's rear disk?? Regular forks too. I wonder if it's carb or injected and what the price point will be? I'm sure it's just a matter of time before the Big Four make something that will compete with the Chinese dual sports (as crazy as that sounds).
Fact is, there's a ton of us out there that opted not to buy a Japanese bike mainly due to price point.

[culcune]

I'm sure it's just a matter of time before the Big Four make something that will compete with the Chinese dual sports (as crazy as that sounds).
Fact is, there's a ton of us out there that opted not to buy a Japanese bike mainly due to price point.
I am somewhat certain that Zongshen started the small displacement adventure bike movement withthe RX3.

[Wild Dog]

The small displacement adventure bike is not a chinese invention. The Jap did it first but the US is not a good market for small displacement or anything that's small, so they never bother to offer them there.
A good example of this, the Ford Ranger, Toyota Hilux, chevy S10... Small Pick Ups, that are great but they don't fit the taste of the average US buyer, so what's the point in trying to sell them in the US???
Hell i still wonder why Fiat/Chrysler is selling the Renegade in the US Market. Is not even that cheaper than a wrangler.


The same goes the other way around, a lot of bigger bikes, trucks, etc are not avaible in other markes just because the buyers just won't buy them.

[ChipToothy]

The new Kawasaki 230 is 19 horsepower stock. Wonder what makes theirs so much betthan ours.

[ChipToothy]

I am somewhat certain that Zongshen started the small displacement adventure bike movement withthe RX3.

Even BMW hopped on the small adv bike bandwagon with the GS310 starting at $5,600.00

[dpl096]

Fact is, there's a ton of us out there that opted not to buy a Japanese bike mainly due to price point.

Agreed.... When I first saw the RX3 I thought it was a really unique bike and a great concept. Then the price settled it for me. Nothing anyone had/has touched it in pricing and looks. Its' greatest "defect" is the resell......should have kept mine, tarped it and kept it around for a buzz now and then. It was fun.

[dpl096]

I am somewhat certain that Zongshen started the small displacement adventure bike movement withthe RX3.

I don't know if they started it but they sure have stirred the pot... Still stirring it from what I can tell. Regardless who started it this is exactly, IMO, the kick in the ass the big boys needed. They got so wrapped up in huge displacement engines and matching profit margins they alienated the "economy" rider...at least they did me. And as far as the imagined exclusive superior service of being a proud paying member into the dealer network money pit....gag..... Keep your appointment only 75 dollar an hour shop fees for the uninformed. Scraped knuckles and dirty fingernails can be very rewarding.

[Wild Dog]

The new Kawasaki 230 is 19 horsepower stock. Wonder what makes theirs so much betthan ours.

Well not much really, just some fine tuning, better QC and mostly a better swingarm.
I bet that the KLX 230 is mostly made from parts made in china but assembled somewhere else. Hell looking at the bike it screams china made.
It looks like a motorcycle made for developing countries, which is also a very big market.
India:1,367,017,897
Brazil: 212,216,586
Big markets with a lot people that like motorcycle but not a big income.
So what's the best solution?? Tell a Chinese company to build it for you and as and added bonus allow them to copy some of your designs. It's a win-win for everyone.

-The big japanese brands can sell cheap bikes, which means $$$ for them
-The Chinese can copy some good engines and sell them cheaper than the jap, which means $$$ for them.
-Those who want a cheap bike with a big brand name, can get an xr150, KLX 230, XTZ 150, ETC
-Those who want a cheap bike and don't want to pay for the brand can get the chinese version.

the kick in the ass the big boys needed. They got so wrapped up in huge displacement engines and matching profit margins they alienated the "economy" rider...at least they did me.

Well, let's be honest in the US, it's "go big or go home". So why waste money on a small cc motorcycle that most likely won't sell as good as they want.

The big brand never forgot about the "economy riders" is just that in the US, there are not that many to make it worth.
A good example of this is the Honda XR200r, for the US Market it was discontinued, because there was not a market for it. On the other hand, they kept selling and making them for other markets for another 20 years.

Sadly it's just business.

[ChipToothy]

I’ve been wondering if there is a poor man’s but quality plug and play swing arm out there that fits these frames. We seem to get stuck with the ugliest swing arms out there.

[elkhunter338]

The only reason I bought TT250 was the price/quality. Appears the TT250 should run for 10k or more, that should get me 10 years of use. For $260 per year, cheap way to find out if I really like riding. Used market was not good so that pushed me to the TT250.

Granted I would have been willing to spend probably another $1,000 for brand new Jap. bike, the Honda 250 dual sport was right at $5,000.

My ideal bike would have been a Japanese brand, 350cc, very similar size to the tt250, weight wise same weight or less. For my use the weight of the tt250 is at my max. loading it into the trailer and such. DR200 is much nicer, but the DR200 is little small for me.

[pete]

I am somewhat certain that Zongshen started the small displacement adventure bike movement withthe RX3.


do a search for a …
Yamaha 250 Tenere..
Honda Tornado 300.. even had a silly dam beak...
but unlike the RX3 they were both well under 400lbs..
but I think Zongshen most lightly invented the under
powered blotted pig idea.. that every one seems to be
following these days...

Both bikes pre-date the RX3 by a good 5 years...


the 230cc seems to be a budget class..
IE.... CRF230 / TTR225...



..

[Wild Dog]

I’ve been wondering if there is a poor man’s but quality plug and play swing arm out there that fits these frames. We seem to get stuck with the ugliest swing arms out there.

Yes there is, the hard part is able to source it. Some people complained that the swingarm was not very good for on/off road motorcycle, so the seller got a new batch from china with what looks like a bottom link unitrak and sells those bike as "LTE" version.

[2LZ]

The new Kawasaki 230 is 19 horsepower stock. Wonder what makes theirs so much betthan ours.

OHC is always better for power. Plus some more fine tuning and maybe a little cam timing, possibly. Just guessing. It doesn't take much. My Q is putting out about 20 with just a different muffler and some jetting. It's just a 200cc.

[ChipToothy]

OHC is always better for power. Plus some more fine tuning and maybe a little cam timing, possibly. Just guessing. It doesn't take much. My Q is putting out about 20 with just a different muffler and some jetting. It's just a 200cc.


My Storm is so slow and weak compared to everyone else’s bikes. Sad. :(

[2LZ]

My Storm is so slow and weak compared to everyone else’s bikes. Sad. :(

It shouldn't be. Same CG motor as all the Hondoids. None of these CG's are fire breathers but it shouldn't be slower than the rest of them. Something's up.....

Q is an OHC Suzuki motor. It's different.

[dpl096]

I bet that the KLX 230 is mostly made from parts made in china but assembled somewhere else. Hell looking at the bike it screams china made.

A good example of this is the Honda XR200r, for the US Market it was discontinued, because there was not a market for it. On the other hand, they kept selling and making them for other markets for another 20 years.

Sadly it's just business.

In order to come anywhere near competing on a price point, minus the tariff bs, I don't see how they can compete without Chinese parts.....and a hell of a lot of them!

And you're absolutely right....it is business. But by going big or going home they did abandon a customer base no matter how small. Interesting to me that customer base is now worthy of some attention since CSC,Hawk,Lifan Tao Tao, Bashan are picking their pockets. Suddenly those measly small profit margin small displacement bikes for a smaller specific customer base is interesting.

[Wild Dog]

In order to come anywhere near competing on a price point, minus the tariff bs, I don't see how they can compete without Chinese parts.....and a hell of a lot of them!

And you're absolutely right....it is business. But by going big or going home they did abandon a customer base no matter how small. Interesting to me that customer base is now worthy of some attention since CSC,Hawk,Lifan Tao Tao, Bashan are picking their pockets. Suddenly those measly small profit margin small displacement bikes for a smaller specific customer base is interesting.

Indeed and then that's when you wonder what's the point of owning a small cc Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki. If they are just chinese motorcycle.
Hell most of the companies that sell chinese motorcycle, now are offering the upgrade CG OHC engine (which i guess is just a cb) same engine that's equipped on Hondas XR150 , Titan.


Sadly that's how business go. They do Market analysis and see what's the most profitable option.
For example the South American market, especially the Argentina and Brazil, the mindset of the buyer is "TRADITION and BRAND above all".
Ford discontinued the F100 in 1981 and moved to the F150 series. In South America they moved to the F150 too BUT, instead of F150. It was the NEW F100 now bigger and more powerful.

17020

An Argentinian 2001 F100..

[Megadan]

That bike just reminds me of a KLX140 with a bigger bore and stroke and the KLX250 lighting and rear fender. That is probably exactly what it is too. I do agree that we probably wont see it for sale here in the US. Even the much more powerful water cooled 250's making 25-30hp aren't the best tools for the job with the high speed limit highways. That is why the demand for a 450 dual sport has always been so high, and why Honda brought us the new CRF450L.

It shouldn't be. Same CG motor as all the Hondoids. None of these CG's are fire breathers but it shouldn't be slower than the rest of them. Something's up.....

Q is an OHC Suzuki motor. It's different.

I said the same thing about his bike before. Something is off for it to be so less powerful. Even my Hawk when otherwise stock and just a dialed in Mikuni could see 62mph with the 17/45 sprockets. He has all the same mods that bike eventually got and I could hit 67 by that point.

[Wild Dog]

I said the same thing about his bike before. Something is off for it to be so less powerful. Even my Hawk when otherwise stock and just a dialed in Mikuni could see 62mph with the 17/45 sprockets. He has all the same mods that bike eventually got and I could hit 67 by that point.

I second or third this. Even the stock CG150 reachs 62 mph (GPS speed, Max speed)

[QUOTE=Megadan;310041Even the much more powerful water cooled 250's making 25-30hp aren't the best tools for the job with the high speed limit highways. That is why the demand for a 450 dual sport has always been so high, and why Honda brought us the new CRF450L.[/QUOTE]
For the SA Market, it's only the off road CRF450.
Want something dualsport that's 250cc to 450cc from Honda??
You get either this

17025

250cc Air cooled with 27 hp

or

17024

300cc Air cooled with 29 hp.

It's based on an old honda 400cc engine that's been downgrade to either 250 or 300..
No market for the CRF450L in SA

[pete]

I second or third this. Even the stock CG150 reachs 62 mph (GPS speed, Max speed)


For the SA Market, it's only the off road CRF450.
Want something dualsport that's 250cc to 450cc from Honda??
You get either this

17025

250cc Air cooled with 27 hp

or

17024

300cc Air cooled with 29 hp.

It's based on an old honda 400cc engine that's been downgrade to either 250 or 300..
No market for the CRF450L in SA





look at the motor it is a DOHC.... the 400 was a single over head cam motor...

It is a CBR 250/300 road bike motor..
The XR250 Tornado " top picture" and its spin off the XRE "bottom picture"
are/ were built at Honda's plant in Brazil..

..




..

[Wild Dog]

I'm aware that the Tornado and the XRE are DOHC, like i said based of an older engine not a direct copy.
Also the Tornado and that engine, predate the current CBR250 (not the same japanese I4 CBR250).
Both the Tornado and the XRE are still in production. Honda doesn't sell the Tornado in Brazil, because it doesn't meet the emission requirements. The XRE300 does.
If you live in Argentina and you like motorcycle at some point you will own a Tornado, even if you don't like dual sport. Is one of the best selling motorcycle over here and sadly one of the most stolen.

[Megadan]

Looks like an XR400 engine with a DOHC head. Likely a much MUCH better engine than the original single cams. Honestly, if they sold that bike here I would love to buy one. Funny thing is, it lost 100cc, but makes about the same power. Testament to the head design.

I wonder if they are still dry sump?

[pete]

I owned a 250 tornado...

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=716993



..

[Wild Dog]

I owned a 250 tornado...

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=716993



..
That's something uncommon a sidecar on a Tornado. I have seen them overboree to 400cc, even Honda Argentina put a Tornado to race in the dakar... but never one with a sidecar.