sirmaxwell
06-06-2019, 10:13 PM
I finally pulled the plug on a 190cc. I saw the coupon for pitster pro a while back here on CR. just wanted to say the coupon ZS190 still works. brings the motor down to 640 after shipping. much more reasonable in my opinion. I'm excited to get back on my clone, its been almost two years. Mud season is so bad around here I got plenty of time left to bring my bike back to spec. Hope this helps!
My current setup is a 2019 Vader Gen 1 nearly Bone Stock except a 17 tooth front sprocket with a hair trimmed off that sprocket cover. That's all I have "modded". I do have a VM22 carb, air filter + jet kit and new inexpensive full size adjustable hand levers all not installed YET, partly because I dont have a fresh air to exhaust emissions block off plate (mine didnt come with one anywhere) apparently that plate is needed to change carb to VM22 and it's more difficult than just leaving the bike stock, which the stock bike seems to run with no issue when temps are 60 degrees F or highe rother than very occasionally a "stubborn/not perfect" shift--shifter seems to be getting better & smoother with age @ around 500 miles & some of the small amount of shift issues I have could be human error, not sure--also occasionally I will be accelerating and when I get to around 46-49mph in 4th gear the power cuts out as if the fuel was cut or the clutch disconnected power to the rear wheel--not sure what it is, was thinking clutch adn it has only ever happened less than 5 times over 500 miles--I usually close the throttle for a second or downshift when this happens then after 2-3 or more seconds I try the throttle again and its as if nothing happened at all. Maybe the carb is lean, maybe too much load on the engine, maybe a "soft seize" which I have heard of when I used to deal with modified scooters and talk to a forum on those. I have no idea yet. This loss of power happens like I said when accelerating often accelerating close to as hard as I can so always at between 85% to 100% WOT @ north of 46MPH with the throttle still open the power cuts and RPMS/bike speed both drop a bit and quickly in a jerky motion, but before I can recover from the jerkiness of the power loss and look at my RPMs by the time I do that (and I always let off the throttle to at least 50% of WOT every time it happens, and I do that almost immediately, maybe out of surprise and maybe fear) and look down which takes 2 seconds--I can already either hit the gas again and its fine or downshift hit the gas and its fine..strange (thoughts on what causes this?). I have been thinking of returning the VM22 and getting a 22mm PZ22 that can apparently be put on without changing a thing if you get the right PZ22 clone carb--main difference I know of(other than being larger) between the PZ22 clone carbs and stock PZ20 is the PZ22 has an extra input for fuel in case you build an auxillary fuel tank onto the luggage rack or whatever--A kind of cool feature if I were to take the clone on a looong ride or camping for days away from civilization for awhile and wanted more than the approximately 200 mile stock range. I have also HEARD top speed doesnt change from adding the VM22 to a stock bike in conjunction with the 17 tooth front sprocket , that it only improves acceleration, but I also have friends who claim gaining 5+MPH fromadding the VM22 on top of a 17 tooth and/or going down 2 teeth on the rear sprocket to get a claimed top speed of 60-63MPH...Thoughts/experiences on changine the carb anyone? :thanks:
I am looking at many options because I'm not entirely sure I want to use all the power a ZS190cc engine makes in my little Vader. I have heard even the 140cc engines or the 141/146cc Big Bore Kits available for the stock 125cc engine for $150 get the bike to a top speed around 65mph probably in ideal conditions on flat ground with a rider who isn't too too heavy like I feel like I am sometimes at 205lbs,65MPH is probably the extreme limit for how fast I want to ride a clone and even then its not like I want ot go miles at 65mph on the highway---I would only probably rarely even think of going 60MPH, but I can imagine cruising at 50 to 55MPH on a state route with a speed limit of 40 to maybe 50mph although at least where I live people tend to go a minimum of 10MPH over the posted speed limit so I'm not convinced riding a Grom or Grom clone for any distance over a few miles on a 50MPH limit road would ever be a great idea without getting a 190cc engine and doing extensive mods to make the bike ride ok at 60mph and be reliable at 60mph. However, I'm still decideing whether or not I would really really want the extra low end torque, acceleration and hill climb ability the zs190cc offers vs the YX made 140cc s bad enough to go thru the extra trouble of fitting a ZS190cc vs what seems to be an easier route of swapping in a new 140cc for between $300-$400 or even the easiest option seems to be the $150 141/146cc Big Bore Kit piston and cylinder. People have said taht adding a cam and/or new race head to the 140's new engine or bbk really helps also, but I doubt I would spend the extra $250-$300 or so bucks for the head because that would bring the total cost to such a high price it wouldn't seem worth it to me for what I get out of it in terms of performance/power when I ride it, plus the added resale value considerations for if and when I ever sell the complete bike or just the engine.
I'm still trying to decide what I want based on my performance needs of not wanting to go above 60-70MPH for daily cruising on flat ground, I do have some 100 to 200 foot hills near my house I climb regularly on my bike and the biggest "mountain" in town peaks at about 900-950 feet--which is roughly a 700 foot climb in elevation from the starting point at the base with a fairly steep grade--currently I do not go on that hill because my bike probably wouldnt easily climb it much above 30mph, maybe could hit 35moh and the speed limit is 40mph on it--& people around where I live have cars definitley on the nicer side so they have no problem climbing that lil mountain at 60MPH which they very commonly do and people here also go 60MPH in 40MPH zoned backroads--so I want to be ABLE to go AT LEAST 50-55MPH when cruising on straight flat surfaces just so cars won't be up my rear end if nothing else!. Most roads I travel will be 40mph speed limits or under, although the highest I would semi-regularly ride are 45mph and the highest limits I plan to ride the little clone on only Occasionally are probably 50mph roads.--not to say I wouldn't try it out on a 50-65MPH Interstate Highway once or twice IF it wasnt busy and IF I had it upgraded to be able to easily hit or exceed 70MPH
If anyone has any thoughts or reccomendations on what I should get, please feel free to comment--I would appreciate any insight y'all have. I might post this elsewhere to start a new thread and maybe get more answers.
What upgrades and/or engine swap should I go with based on my above needs and trying to get the most bang and resale value combined for my bucks? Consider performance but also keep in mind decent reliability is also important... BUT I would be genuinely surprised if I dont either sell this bike or have a new engine on it or both well before the 50,000 mile and 10 more years from now ownership mark. If I had my way I would definitley keep the Vader and just add to it, starting a bike collection that would eventually put Jay Leno's car & bike garages to shame! However, realistically...I actually have pretty tough money and space and time constraints, so I doubt I will EVER have more than a handful of bikes and Im currently facing the sad prospect of being forced to move into a modest apartment within the next few months after spending the last 30+ years in a decent sized 4 bedroom 2.5 bathroom house with a 2 car attached garage and a little workbench workshop in my furnace room in the basement. I will be missing all of this for sure once I'm forced out, but on the bright side it should make my life easier and responsibilities significantly less.
All that being said, the original reason I started this post is because I checked out the coupon the OP Phildo mentioned and it still works! www.pitsterpro.com get the 190cc engine (listed as a 190cc GPX Moto) and type zs190 into the coupon code to bring down the price including delivery to a total of just under $641!!! What a steal!! I haven't seen it anywhere cheaper, but if anyone is reading this and knows of ANY cheaper prices on a 190cc or ANY good prices on any complete engines, big bore kits or anything for any of our China Bikes (and especially for my Gen 1 Vader!) Please share it with me personally or with the group as a New Thread or Post on an existing thread!! Thanks for reading, please remember to Ride Safe, be responsible and have fun in life!! Peace
This "GPX Moto" 190cc(same as ZongShen zs190 [& I think also same as the most basic 2 valve cylinder headed Daytona 190]) engine includes:
Kick Starter
Gear Shifter
Manifold & Gasket
Coil Pack
Start Relay
Rectify
Rubber Adaptor
Wiring Harness
My current setup is a 2019 Vader Gen 1 nearly Bone Stock except a 17 tooth front sprocket with a hair trimmed off that sprocket cover. That's all I have "modded". I do have a VM22 carb, air filter + jet kit and new inexpensive full size adjustable hand levers all not installed YET, partly because I dont have a fresh air to exhaust emissions block off plate (mine didnt come with one anywhere) apparently that plate is needed to change carb to VM22 and it's more difficult than just leaving the bike stock, which the stock bike seems to run with no issue when temps are 60 degrees F or highe rother than very occasionally a "stubborn/not perfect" shift--shifter seems to be getting better & smoother with age @ around 500 miles & some of the small amount of shift issues I have could be human error, not sure--also occasionally I will be accelerating and when I get to around 46-49mph in 4th gear the power cuts out as if the fuel was cut or the clutch disconnected power to the rear wheel--not sure what it is, was thinking clutch adn it has only ever happened less than 5 times over 500 miles--I usually close the throttle for a second or downshift when this happens then after 2-3 or more seconds I try the throttle again and its as if nothing happened at all. Maybe the carb is lean, maybe too much load on the engine, maybe a "soft seize" which I have heard of when I used to deal with modified scooters and talk to a forum on those. I have no idea yet. This loss of power happens like I said when accelerating often accelerating close to as hard as I can so always at between 85% to 100% WOT @ north of 46MPH with the throttle still open the power cuts and RPMS/bike speed both drop a bit and quickly in a jerky motion, but before I can recover from the jerkiness of the power loss and look at my RPMs by the time I do that (and I always let off the throttle to at least 50% of WOT every time it happens, and I do that almost immediately, maybe out of surprise and maybe fear) and look down which takes 2 seconds--I can already either hit the gas again and its fine or downshift hit the gas and its fine..strange (thoughts on what causes this?). I have been thinking of returning the VM22 and getting a 22mm PZ22 that can apparently be put on without changing a thing if you get the right PZ22 clone carb--main difference I know of(other than being larger) between the PZ22 clone carbs and stock PZ20 is the PZ22 has an extra input for fuel in case you build an auxillary fuel tank onto the luggage rack or whatever--A kind of cool feature if I were to take the clone on a looong ride or camping for days away from civilization for awhile and wanted more than the approximately 200 mile stock range. I have also HEARD top speed doesnt change from adding the VM22 to a stock bike in conjunction with the 17 tooth front sprocket , that it only improves acceleration, but I also have friends who claim gaining 5+MPH fromadding the VM22 on top of a 17 tooth and/or going down 2 teeth on the rear sprocket to get a claimed top speed of 60-63MPH...Thoughts/experiences on changine the carb anyone? :thanks:
I am looking at many options because I'm not entirely sure I want to use all the power a ZS190cc engine makes in my little Vader. I have heard even the 140cc engines or the 141/146cc Big Bore Kits available for the stock 125cc engine for $150 get the bike to a top speed around 65mph probably in ideal conditions on flat ground with a rider who isn't too too heavy like I feel like I am sometimes at 205lbs,65MPH is probably the extreme limit for how fast I want to ride a clone and even then its not like I want ot go miles at 65mph on the highway---I would only probably rarely even think of going 60MPH, but I can imagine cruising at 50 to 55MPH on a state route with a speed limit of 40 to maybe 50mph although at least where I live people tend to go a minimum of 10MPH over the posted speed limit so I'm not convinced riding a Grom or Grom clone for any distance over a few miles on a 50MPH limit road would ever be a great idea without getting a 190cc engine and doing extensive mods to make the bike ride ok at 60mph and be reliable at 60mph. However, I'm still decideing whether or not I would really really want the extra low end torque, acceleration and hill climb ability the zs190cc offers vs the YX made 140cc s bad enough to go thru the extra trouble of fitting a ZS190cc vs what seems to be an easier route of swapping in a new 140cc for between $300-$400 or even the easiest option seems to be the $150 141/146cc Big Bore Kit piston and cylinder. People have said taht adding a cam and/or new race head to the 140's new engine or bbk really helps also, but I doubt I would spend the extra $250-$300 or so bucks for the head because that would bring the total cost to such a high price it wouldn't seem worth it to me for what I get out of it in terms of performance/power when I ride it, plus the added resale value considerations for if and when I ever sell the complete bike or just the engine.
I'm still trying to decide what I want based on my performance needs of not wanting to go above 60-70MPH for daily cruising on flat ground, I do have some 100 to 200 foot hills near my house I climb regularly on my bike and the biggest "mountain" in town peaks at about 900-950 feet--which is roughly a 700 foot climb in elevation from the starting point at the base with a fairly steep grade--currently I do not go on that hill because my bike probably wouldnt easily climb it much above 30mph, maybe could hit 35moh and the speed limit is 40mph on it--& people around where I live have cars definitley on the nicer side so they have no problem climbing that lil mountain at 60MPH which they very commonly do and people here also go 60MPH in 40MPH zoned backroads--so I want to be ABLE to go AT LEAST 50-55MPH when cruising on straight flat surfaces just so cars won't be up my rear end if nothing else!. Most roads I travel will be 40mph speed limits or under, although the highest I would semi-regularly ride are 45mph and the highest limits I plan to ride the little clone on only Occasionally are probably 50mph roads.--not to say I wouldn't try it out on a 50-65MPH Interstate Highway once or twice IF it wasnt busy and IF I had it upgraded to be able to easily hit or exceed 70MPH
If anyone has any thoughts or reccomendations on what I should get, please feel free to comment--I would appreciate any insight y'all have. I might post this elsewhere to start a new thread and maybe get more answers.
What upgrades and/or engine swap should I go with based on my above needs and trying to get the most bang and resale value combined for my bucks? Consider performance but also keep in mind decent reliability is also important... BUT I would be genuinely surprised if I dont either sell this bike or have a new engine on it or both well before the 50,000 mile and 10 more years from now ownership mark. If I had my way I would definitley keep the Vader and just add to it, starting a bike collection that would eventually put Jay Leno's car & bike garages to shame! However, realistically...I actually have pretty tough money and space and time constraints, so I doubt I will EVER have more than a handful of bikes and Im currently facing the sad prospect of being forced to move into a modest apartment within the next few months after spending the last 30+ years in a decent sized 4 bedroom 2.5 bathroom house with a 2 car attached garage and a little workbench workshop in my furnace room in the basement. I will be missing all of this for sure once I'm forced out, but on the bright side it should make my life easier and responsibilities significantly less.
All that being said, the original reason I started this post is because I checked out the coupon the OP Phildo mentioned and it still works! www.pitsterpro.com get the 190cc engine (listed as a 190cc GPX Moto) and type zs190 into the coupon code to bring down the price including delivery to a total of just under $641!!! What a steal!! I haven't seen it anywhere cheaper, but if anyone is reading this and knows of ANY cheaper prices on a 190cc or ANY good prices on any complete engines, big bore kits or anything for any of our China Bikes (and especially for my Gen 1 Vader!) Please share it with me personally or with the group as a New Thread or Post on an existing thread!! Thanks for reading, please remember to Ride Safe, be responsible and have fun in life!! Peace
This "GPX Moto" 190cc(same as ZongShen zs190 [& I think also same as the most basic 2 valve cylinder headed Daytona 190]) engine includes:
Kick Starter
Gear Shifter
Manifold & Gasket
Coil Pack
Start Relay
Rectify
Rubber Adaptor
Wiring Harness