2017 Hawk 250 to 2017 honda crf250l

[Hawk 229cc]

well as much as I do like the hawk I pulled the trigger on the honda version,2017 crf 250l same year as the hawk 64 miles not a scratch $4300.00 ,now concidering some are paying 5899.00 for the 2019 ,because some people do pay retail,,for me it was just becoming to much ,not enough power to get up an go like the honda

I figure I will offset an get near 1k for my hawk ,then cost is $3300.00 ,I did look at the dlx but thought like others I been reading posts hear just not respondeing ,seems most are waiting to see if it will have problems,i gained 40 pounds since quiting butts last year,so 275lbs now ,the extra wide foot pegs near every extra for the honda is easer to get an cheap on ebay, so my hawk will be up for sale ,I have few spots that it just does not get up an go like the honda 25hp vs like 16hp,the hawk is a good bike ,I just have not had to the time to tear it down an make it safe,,

plus the counter balanced engine less aggressive tires an no cold starts,but still great in the dirt, there is more you can do to the honda for the extra money ,so I was able an will have the bike in about 1 week ,

[paulsstag]

That Honda sure is nice. Congrats on your purchase. Is it a demo model or a trade in that someone did not ride?

[Hawk 229cc]

That Honda sure is nice. Congrats on your purchase. Is it a demo model or a trade in that someone did not ride?

thank you, it was a trade in ,the kid wanted a crf450l wich for the money seems very exspencive I was told ,I did see the 450l for sale at one sight for $6999.00 wich to me is just plain to much money still ,msrp on the 450l is like 10.000 ,I dont know why or how honda justifys the price of the 450l I sat on one feels the same seat is higher ,

40hp fine,but not worth 2x the 250l ,heck I figure with some power upgrades the 250l should get near 30hp,i may do a muffler upgrade only just the silencer to make it louder,otherwise will keep it stock other then wide pegs skid plate radiator grill hand guards an such ,oh an gel pad that goes under a cover for the seat ,makes there seats a bit more bearable for long rides,couse the worst thing on those bikes are the hard seats

there has been talk about putting the the CBR 300cc engine in the 250l frame wich is like 286cc,i am sure will cost more ,I heard a guy say it best ,we are at a point where most 400cc bikes will be all one needs ,after that its just more power then one needs ,Kawasaki has a super naked 400cc bike for under $5000.00 an goes like 110 mph,based off the ninja engine

[roundhouse]

Sweet, they are awesome bikes. Congrats

[Hawk 229cc]

Sweet, they are awesome bikes. Congrats

thank you I was able to swing it ,after having some heavy adventure bikes in the past that are realy not off road ,I can do some off road too,but will mostly drive on pavement ,you can do almost anything to the bikes from making a dirt bike out of to a full on street bike ,can also do a piston upgrade,all the research shows there great bikes ,besides the hawk they are the most sold bikes pretty much,used ones can be had for desent prices

I will do a little at a time

[pete]

I have rented a CRF250L for a 3 week trip around Thailand / Loas / Cambodia..
leave on Sunday.... Be interesting to see how they go.... Not a Yamaha but I will
put up with the shame... Couldn't find any where on the net that rents a WR250R..




..

[Laganm21]

I too Sold my hawk for $1000 and bought a 2018 CRF250l, I really liked the hawk but I man as soon as i test drove the honda and felt the way it shifted and the little bit of extra power I was sold . and as a bonus I can always find neutral. But not everything with the honda is perfect, the suspension needs work , i will have to buy stiffer springs front and rear ($310) and get an exhaust ($350) and you have to buy a EJK Electronic jet kit ($250). so yeah I sure do miss the Hawks parts prices

[Megadan]

Congrats on the new bike and welcome to the world of Honda ownership. It's not really fair to compare this bike to a Hawk. It's a whole new level in all regards, and kind of becomes and apples to oranges scenario. For what you need it seems to be the right fit though, so obviously it was a good decision on a decent deal for that bike.

I heard a guy say it best ,we are at a point where most 400cc bikes will be all one needs ,after that its just more power then one needs ,Kawasaki has a super naked 400cc bike for under $5000.00 an goes like 110 mph,based off the ninja engine

I don't disagree with what you and the other guy are saying for the most part, but at the same time I do. Most 400-450cc bikes are adequately powered to get the job done in most scenarios, but adequate doesn't always cut it. I enjoy the fact that my silly overpowered VFR1200 can easily and effortlessly accelerate in 6th gear at 60+mph to quickly pass with absolute ease, or be able to quickly get myself out of dangerous scenarios.

In my opinion the one class of road bikes that offers the best of all worlds in terms of a balance of practicality and power, it would be the 650cc class of bikes. I.E., the FZ07, SV650, etc. Just like in the world of dual sport/off road the 250cc bikes like the WR250R and CRF250 offer the same. This is my perspective based on the experience of owning close to 2 dozen bikes ranging from 90cc with 6hp to 1200cc with almost 200hp.

[Hawk 229cc]

I too Sold my hawk for $1000 and bought a 2018 CRF250l, I really liked the hawk but I man as soon as i test drove the honda and felt the way it shifted and the little bit of extra power I was sold . and as a bonus I can always find neutral. But not everything with the honda is perfect, the suspension needs work , i will have to buy stiffer springs front and rear ($310) and get an exhaust ($350) and you have to buy a EJK Electronic jet kit ($250). so yeah I sure do miss the Hawks parts prices

yes I know probley for off road ,but I wont to be doing any extreme rideing ,my hawk neutral is easy on mine ,the jet kit I would assume is if I want to do the muffler ,for the front forks like night an day

[Hawk 229cc]

Congrats on the new bike and welcome to the world of Honda ownership. It's not really fair to compare this bike to a Hawk. It's a whole new level in all regards, and kind of becomes and apples to oranges scenario. For what you need it seems to be the right fit though, so obviously it was a good decision on a decent deal for that bike.



I don't disagree with what you and the other guy are saying for the most part, but at the same time I do. Most 400-450cc bikes are adequately powered to get the job done in most scenarios, but adequate doesn't always cut it. I enjoy the fact that my silly overpowered VFR1200 can easily and effortlessly accelerate in 6th gear at 60+mph to quickly pass with absolute ease, or be able to quickly get myself out of dangerous scenarios.

In my opinion the one class of road bikes that offers the best of all worlds in terms of a balance of practicality and power, it would be the 650cc class of bikes. I.E., the FZ07, SV650, etc. Just like in the world of dual sport/off road the 250cc bikes like the WR250R and CRF250 offer the same. This is my perspective based on the experience of owning close to 2 dozen bikes ranging from 90cc with 6hp to 1200cc with almost 200hp.

Thanks Dan yes comparing is hard.though I am going to keep the hawk for few month before I sell it,no doubt we are headed to a spot alot like cars with 2.0 turbos with 275hp,

for those looking for quality at a great price point that 2019 z 400cc with abs mrsp $4799.00 Kawasaki just came out with ,a guy did a dyno on youtube the bike at 48hp ,can only be rated for like 44hp .had said they were doing a 400 ninja build .an said just mabey they should use the z400 2 cyclinder ,just seems. if I wanted that kinda bike ,I do think we will see the msrp go up on those bikes ,if I was 30 again ,I would have to try it ,just a lot bike for your buck
yes no doubt to the 1000 cc on up has its place too ,an from 250cc to 400 will be the norm in a few years for most riders in value bikes,

we also know kawi came out with 50k super bike that goes well over 200 miles per hour,again like some bikes ,like the Honda 450l way over priced for most,

one thing is for sure when comparing older bikes to new ,is there are so many things one can do the newer bikes for mods are endless it seems.

there is a review on Hondas 250l kawi 250klx an Yamaha wr250 comparing all 3 ,at the end there all desent bikes for me the kawi not any better with light brown color,then the wr250r at $1000.00 more nice bike ,but not worth the 1k more or more when you buy like we do

[Hawk 229cc]

I have rented a CRF250L for a 3 week trip around Thailand / Loas / Cambodia..
leave on Sunday.... Be interesting to see how they go.... Not a Yamaha but I will
put up with the shame... Couldn't find any where on the net that rents a WR250R..




.. enjoy hope its in good shape being in the 3rd world country ,there is a video of a guy on youtube takes this out to a dirt track an is passing some on better dirt bikes ,but he also is a very good rider of them all,one can do a lot to these bikes I will do the basics to dress it up a bit ,for mostly on road rideing ,atleast until a possible civil war break out in this country:tup:

[Megadan]

for those looking for quality at a great price point that 2019 z 400cc with abs mrsp $4799.00 Kawasaki just came out with ,a guy did a dyno on youtube the bike at 48hp ,can only be rated for like 44hp .had said they were doing a 400 ninja build .an said just mabey they should use the z400 2 cyclinder ,just seems. if I wanted that kinda bike ,I do think we will see the msrp go up on those bikes ,if I was 30 again ,I would have to try it ,just a lot bike for your buck
yes no doubt to the 1000 cc on up has its place too ,an from 250cc to 400 will be the norm in a few years for most riders in value bikes,



It's not just the displacement that matters when comparing bike engines. Cylinder count, cylinder layout, port design, intake design, cam profiles, etc all come into play.

If we look at the 2010 CBR1000RR and compared it to my 2010 VFR1200F in terms of power (ignoring the massive weight difference of 140lbs, a lot of which is from the shaft drive system and engine) on paper, you would think they would be almost the same in terms of performance.

They are both rated at 175hp and 170hp from the factory respectively. Where they differ is in the torque output and how they deliver that power The CBR engine is a typical super sport bike, designed to give you everything it has in the top half of the power curve (6000rpm-13000rpm). Compared to my VFR1200 engine, which may make similar peak power numbers, redlines much sooner at 10,200 rpm, makes its peak at 10,000, but the torque curve is literally almost a flat line from 4000rpm to 10,000rpm, and even as low as 3000rpm it makes the same torque that the CBR peaks at 9200rpm.

When you ride these two bikes you notice these differences. My VFR will pull like a monsterous tractor in every gear at almost any RPM. It hits with such force that you better be prepared for it. The CBR in contrast, while it does pull decently, will feel almost gutless by comparison until those RPMs get well above 6000. Beyond that point the bike is an absolute missile.

Similar horspower, very different delivery.

Heck, look no further than the 650cc class of bikes to see something similar. The FZ07 and SV650 make oodles of torque at very low RPM when compared to the CB650F/R, which is a 650cc inline 4. The CB650 is essentially a retuned Super Sport 600, so it feels weak compared to the twin cylinders, but once you get past 8500, where the rest of those bikes peak, it keeps making more power, and it winds its self happily to 12,500rpm, making 20hp more than any of its competitors.

[RedCrowRides]

It never ceases to amaze me how so many people are prone to bash Harley - Davidson

for the price of their Bikes ( and yes i agree some of them are stupidly over priced ,but not all of them by a long shot ) and then the subject such as in this thread comes up that the Honda CR450L is about 10k new - 10 k for a single cylinder 450?

There are several Models of far larger HD's that can be had for that money ( or less), yes they are two different styles of bike but in my mind unless it is some flavor of factory level race bike no 450 on this planet ought to cost 10k ,assuming it is not coated in diamonds and gold ,that is just ludicrous.the reality Honda and the other Makers have deluded people into thinking that price point is "normal" or "justified" just

makes it that much more egregious ,there is no way as many of those as Honda sells

that half that 10k asking price is not pure, unadulterated profit ,and imo that is what has hurt and continues to hurt Motorcycling as a hobby ,and for that matter what drove a lot of us to Chinabikes to begin with .

[franque]

I've been both a Harley and a Honda (motorcycle) mechanic. There is a difference in quality, the Honda's being much better. The 450 has a lot more up-to-date engineering than any motor Harley has ever designed (Porsche did the V-Rod motor).

The Milwaukee 8 is interesting, but the mechanical design aspects of that motor haven't been cutting edge since the 30s in radial aircraft motors. Additionally, Harley has the economy of scale on their side, and uses cheaper materials that are made in China. The 450 is made in Japan out of much better materials, and while Harleys for the most part have Showa forks (a company owned by Honda), their forks are mass-produced and probably cost Harley less than $500 if I had to guess.

The forks on the 450L are probably closer to $2K. The engine is basically a detuned 450x motor, which is a race motor. Honestly, I would rather have a 500exc, but even looking that the complexity of the 450's frame, as well as it being made from extruded aluminum (and being well-engineered, at that) makes it something that is much more expensive to produce than the Harley.

Harley's big twin frames are made with cast lugs, and IIRC mild steel tubing. The lugs haven't been changed significantly in ages, I think that some of the parts date back to 95, or even 85. Harleys are well polished turds, with outdated engineering. The 450L is in a completely different class, and it [I]is[I] intended to be able to be raced.

If you look at what a WR450F costs, a 500EXC, or any of the 450 MX bikes, the price is quite comparable.

When you're talking about larger Harley models, are you referring to the Streets and Sportsters? The Street is junk, and Sportsters aren't really good either (largely unchanged since 2005, before that 1992, before that 1984(?), and before that unchanged since 1957)... they're not exactly premium models. Comparing it to even the cheapest big twin is still $5K more, for something that is again not that good, and very overpriced. Harley's sales numbers attest to this.

Also, to add, the 450 is in a completely different league than the 250. I owned one for ~13k miles, and they're good for putting around town, but aren't really a real enduro in comparison to the 450L. The 250 uses budget suspension, a mild steel frame, and weighs about 60-70lbs more than the 450, and makes about 1/3 of the power of an uncorked 450L.

[Megadan]

I wouldn't even say the CRF450L has a detuned engine, but a retuned engine. It still makes close to the same power as the X, but with a different piston and ring design for better reliability, slightly different cam profiles and a slightly heavier crank and flywheel that just altered how that power is delivered. The result is a few less peak ponies, but a lot more mid range and lower rpm grunt for low speed stuff.

Yes, it's an expensive bike at $10,400, but considering it is only $600 more than the X, you get a heck of a lot for that few hundred more dollars. An engine that is going to be more friendly/easy on maintenance, better all around EFI tuning, a redesigned exhaust to meet emissions and noise standards (larger muffler and a catalyst), larger radiators for improved cooling for street and slow speed riding (aka dual sporting) with a thermostatically controlled electric fan, a dampened rear sprocket, thicker rotors, a completely different rear subframe to handle cargo, and probably the best factory LED lighting on the market all around. All while getting the same basic suspension of the CRF450R, including all of its adjustability, which is some top notch long travel fully adjustable Showa hardware.

You call it overpriced, but if you look into the engineering and just the sheer quality on the bike and the level of hardware you recieve, it's actually not that bad. It's not expensive without a reason. You aren't paying for 30+ year old technology and design that has long since amortized its R&D expenses like the XR650L, which is $3k cheaper.

[2LZ]

Hawk229, congrats on the Honda CRF250L! Please feel free to start a new thread in "Other Brands" section.

http://www.chinariders.net/forumdisplay.php?f=121

I think you'd be doing the China Rider community a great service with your reports and impressions of your new CRF250L. Many here have been pondering upgrading and it would be nice to have the information at hand regarding your impressions of power delivery, handling, suspension and also mod cost and availability.

Nice price, by the way! Honda's are not cheap!

[Hawk 229cc]

It's not just the displacement that matters when comparing bike engines. Cylinder count, cylinder layout, port design, intake design, cam profiles, etc all come into play.

If we look at the 2010 CBR1000RR and compared it to my 2010 VFR1200F in terms of power (ignoring the massive weight difference of 140lbs, a lot of which is from the shaft drive system and engine) on paper, you would think they would be almost the same in terms of performance.

They are both rated at 175hp and 170hp from the factory respectively. Where they differ is in the torque output and how they deliver that power The CBR engine is a typical super sport bike, designed to give you everything it has in the top half of the power curve (6000rpm-13000rpm). Compared to my VFR1200 engine, which may make similar peak power numbers, redlines much sooner at 10,200 rpm, makes its peak at 10,000, but the torque curve is literally almost a flat line from 4000rpm to 10,000rpm, and even as low as 3000rpm it makes the same torque that the CBR peaks at 9200rpm.

When you ride these two bikes you notice these differences. My VFR will pull like a monsterous tractor in every gear at almost any RPM. It hits with such force that you better be prepared for it. The CBR in contrast, while it does pull decently, will feel almost gutless by comparison until those RPMs get well above 6000. Beyond that point the bike is an absolute missile.

Similar horspower, very different delivery.

Heck, look no further than the 650cc class of bikes to see something similar. The FZ07 and SV650 make oodles of torque at very low RPM when compared to the CB650F/R, which is a 650cc inline 4. The CB650 is essentially a retuned Super Sport 600, so it feels weak compared to the twin cylinders, but once you get past 8500, where the rest of those bikes peak, it keeps making more power, and it winds its self happily to 12,500rpm, making 20hp more than any of its competitors.

I understand ,I guess what I am saying is allow 10 years to go buy an we will see on average more 250cc to 400cc bikes on the road 2 pistons 1 piston,they will have more then enough power for the road ,heck we know most bikes are over powered for the road with speed limit of 55 to 65 an have been pretty much now more then ever .

with the prices soring that z400 I was referring too will look more appealing,yes efi is one of the biggest changes I like https://youtu.be/2_0o_v_YKec?t=4 check out this video 4799.00 msrp with abs put a can on the bikes an you got the power of an older 4 cylinder bike say an 750 850 in 400 with abs for under 5k impressive to me

[Hawk 229cc]

It never ceases to amaze me how so many people are prone to bash Harley - Davidson

for the price of their Bikes ( and yes i agree some of them are stupidly over priced ,but not all of them by a long shot ) and then the subject such as in this thread comes up that the Honda CR450L is about 10k new - 10 k for a single cylinder 450?

There are several Models of far larger HD's that can be had for that money ( or less), yes they are two different styles of bike but in my mind unless it is some flavor of factory level race bike no 450 on this planet ought to cost 10k ,assuming it is not coated in diamonds and gold ,that is just ludicrous.the reality Honda and the other Makers have deluded people into thinking that price point is "normal" or "justified" just

makes it that much more egregious ,there is no way as many of those as Honda sells

that half that 10k asking price is not pure, unadulterated profit ,and imo that is what has hurt and continues to hurt Motorcycling as a hobby ,and for that matter what drove a lot of us to Chinabikes to begin with .

I agree the 450l is a full on dirt race bike for the road, high to maintain too,I wont dis Harley ever,other then 2016 they had to many bikes for sale an started going back to a bike that needs more maintance

I tend to think we have got past or near where the most cc the 1800cc the 150hp ,is not as high on peoples list ,now it more about comfort in an affordable price like that z400 yes I kinda a small bike for me,but most guys would just love an think they got great deal on that bike

yes I have seats concepts seat for the crf 250l coming to ,I think for the budget bikes an when we get a deal is well worth the $287.00 to be comfortable feel stable after many reviews 2 inches wider,with the pegs for me will be what I needed

[Megadan]

I understand ,I guess what I am saying is allow 10 years to go buy an we will see on average more 250cc to 400cc bikes on the road 2 pistons 1 piston,they will have more then enough power for the road ,heck we know most bikes are over powered for the road with speed limit of 55 to 65 an have been pretty much now more then ever .

with the prices soring that z400 I was referring too will look more appealing,yes efi is one of the biggest changes I like https://youtu.be/2_0o_v_YKec?t=4 check out this video 4799.00 msrp with abs put a can on the bikes an you got the power of an older 4 cylinder bike say an 750 850 in 400 with abs for under 5k impressive to me

We are already there in terms of small bikes becoming a real tour de force. Bear in mind that the big overpowered bikes are the reason that the Z400 makes the power that it does. The big expensive bikes are the engineering playground to develop the designs and technology that makes its way down to the cheaper affordable models. That is part of the reason they are more expensive.

[Hawk 229cc]

sold the hawk $1100.00 not too bad ,I see the hawk efi gets put off another month the crf is a fun bike got the seat concepts an fmf installed 57mm pegs ,I got wind shield kinda made too fit them or the hawk spitfire would work on the hawk too. not sure I will use it yet an a skid plate not yet installed ,also some puppy grips

[Hawk 229cc]

[QUOTE=2LZ;314143]Hawk229, congrats on the Honda CRF250L! Please feel free to start a new thread in "Other Brands" section.

http://www.chinariders.net/forumdisplay.php?f=121

I think you'd be doing the China Rider community a great service with your reports and impressions of your new CRF250L. Many here have been pondering upgrading and it would be nice to have the information at hand regarding your impressions of power delivery, handling, suspension and also mod cost and availability.

as far as I can see they are all over the net ,craigs list ,a good used crf250l is an are great bikes ,with not a lot of mods to do like the hawk an many times can be had for cheap ,they will lose a lot of value new ,so used like mine ,or one with 300 mile to 3000 miles ,CL for $3200.00 2017 2200 miles ,is low ,the one thing though they lose value down to the 3k mark they stay there pretty much this is up north though where they pretty much go for more then down south ,if you need to get on the highway for short trip they do about 80 miles an hour but more comfortable at 55-65 mph,

The fmf makes the throttle reponce well worth the upgrade as well,the rear suspension is a bit soft ,but still not bad for some off road fun pro link ,there are videos all over youtube,showing the bike is as good for one as the other on road or off road ,the front inverted shocks are great,but not like the 450l,so for say 1k more then it may cost to get hawk where one wants it get a low miles crf ,they all need maint ,but so far it just fun to jump on the crf an feel the quality ,I do think on road will allways be more forgiving to things breaking ,off road will be harder on the bikes over time,being water cooled is good for slow travel too,efi great for cold starts too

[McFailbutter]

Dam mega, u shoulda been on the debate team in highschool. ....Or maybe u were.

[McFailbutter]

Either way, always knowledgeable, and point well made and well spoken.

[McFailbutter]

Dan 3:16

[Hawk 229cc]

what are we at church now hahahhaha ,we all just talk what we know I think the time itis comeing the smaller displaced bikes will be all over more then ever ,that z400 making 43hp for under 5k is where we are headed ,as far as how it holds up its new ,nut based on the ninja engine ,mods could move this over to to other brands section, an dan does know a lot about bikes for sure:D

the crf250l has proved itself I would like to see the crf300l ,but not the price tag,the best upgrade for ones money on the crf250l is the 13 tooth sproket as its low geared for a 6 speed though all the upgrades give it more power through the rev range ,1 gear is terrible but with the 13 tooth like 15.00 part is all some do ,some think its worse ,so its what one guy likes another does not,i am adding my ejk box soon wich should also improve response ,some lose a bit of top end some dont ,with my 275lbs I don't expect to be doing 80 ,some would say I am to big for the bike ,then I would have to be to big for the hawk too,its what works for us an what we like ,I don't need speed anymore

[2LZ]

what are we at church now hahahhaha ,we all just talk what we know I think the time itis comeing the smaller displaced bikes will be all over more then ever ,that z400 making 43hp for under 5k is where we are headed ,as far as how it holds up its new ,nut based on the ninja engine ,mods could move this over to to other brands section, an dan does know a lot about bikes for sure:D

the crf250l has proved itself I would like to see the crf300l ,but not the price tag,the best upgrade for ones money on the crf250l is the 13 tooth sproket as its low geared for a 6 speed though all the upgrades give it more power through the rev range ,1 gear is terrible but with the 13 tooth like 15.00 part is all some do ,some think its worse ,so its what one guy likes another does not,i am adding my ejk box soon wich should also improve response ,some lose a bit of top end some dont ,with my 275lbs I don't expect to be doing 80 ,some would say I am to big for the bike ,then I would have to be to big for the hawk too,its what works for us an what we like ,I don't need speed anymore

Really enjoying your input on this Hawk 229. Thanks! Once I liquidate some more stock and get my duckslined up, I'd like to give Q a larger displacement partner, maybe a 3-400cc something.

[Megadan]

Dam mega, u shoulda been on the debate team in highschool. ....Or maybe u were.

All 4 years, and captain the last 2. I love a good debate/discussion. :tup:



the crf250l has proved itself I would like to see the crf300l ,but not the price tag,the best upgrade for ones money on the crf250l is the 13 tooth sproket as its low geared for a 6 speed though all the upgrades give it more power through the rev range ,1 gear is terrible but with the 13 tooth like 15.00 part is all some do ,some think its worse ,so its what one guy likes another does not,i am adding my ejk box soon wich should also improve response ,some lose a bit of top end some dont ,with my 275lbs I don't expect to be doing 80 ,some would say I am to big for the bike ,then I would have to be to big for the hawk too,its what works for us an what we like ,I don't need speed anymore

I think you will find that it is always down to the individual. Others who may use theirs on road more will like the extra tooth up front while those who primarily eat dirt will see it the other way.

In my vast experiences with Honda bikes, and in particular their fuel tuning, I think the EJK will be just the ticket when combined with that exhaust. Honda is notorious for being very lean at low rpm with all of their bikes.m This causes them to have a delayed feel in the throttle response when rolling on. I had my VFR flash tuned for this very reason, and have re-jetted almost every carbureted Honda I have owned.

[OneLeggedRider]

When I buy a dualsport (my first was a XT 500) I want a street legal dirtbike rather than a street bike with limited offroad capability, which will always govern my tire and gearing choices. But to each his own.

I'm already concerned about switching to the 13/33 gearing as I haven't test ridden it yet. Jay loved the difference as far as on road manners and being able to cruise comfortably at 60mph, and I'm sure I will too. But there's a hill out at the Reclaim that may not approve of the taller gearing, and alot of tight twisty trails where low speed power is almost a requirement. And yeah I know you can switch front sprockets without a whole lot of trouble, but because of the crappy Hawk swingarm it's not much fun readjusting the chain.

I think I just need a DRZ 400.. ;)

[Hawk 229cc]

I think I just need a DRZ 400.. ;)[/QUOTE]

I think that would be a great choice for the better off road capability.the 450l if it were not so much money would be nice ,though I think couse its new ,we will see used ones for half the cost . I did see one for $6900.00 wich beats the $10.500 .most will get .if I was 25 still,i would just get a 250r for the woods only ,with my plan to only ride on occasion off road .this will work ,got my 13 tooth ready to try ,the drz another bike that can be found for very reasonable price for used ones a few years old,most all jap bikes after 2 years drop in value a lot then keep a good value .I just never pay retail ,but people do is why I bought mine from out of state an still saved a ton for extras ,some guys are paying $700.00 over retail wich just kills me ,money to burn I guess for some an others just got to have it.it kinda wrecks it for others when you got a guy willing to pay more for the 2020 model say.

yup Suzuki makes a nice bike too,i think the seat is like 37in an there still not efi.but they have allways made great carbs as well:tup:

[Megadan]

The funny thing is, people complain that the 450L is too expensive when it is only $600 more than the 450R, and it comes with a lot of upgrades/changes and bespoke parts. I think that speaks way more to the 450R being too expensive IMHO.

[pete]

most of the upgrades ! .. on the 450l are in fact down grades
to make the 450R useable as a duel sport..
pull the heart out of the 450R and replace it with a big
scoop of vanilla … then you have a duelsport that joe average
can ride anywhere.. what a duelsport has to be...



..

[Hawk 229cc]

most of the upgrades ! .. on the 450l are in fact down grades
to make the 450R useable as a duel sport..
pull the heart out of the 450R and replace it with a big
scoop of vanilla … then you have a duelsport that joe average
can ride anywhere.. what a duelsport has to be...



..
the 450R is the real deal ,but the 450l if you look into it more is more the middle of the road from the 250r ,an comeing in at about 43hp .the bike is for those who need to travel on road to get to the outside track,or some desent trails ,an it does require the same maintenance as a super cross dirt bike ,but the price is way off ,now for those who can some how get the 450r set up for on road great, its not detuned by much to make it dot ,an one can let out about 7hp,getting closer to 50hp,i would not buy simpley because of price ,but in a few years they will sell used cheap,honeslty I don't think the 450r is made for your average joe ,its made for experienced riders pretty much

Honda has so many choises for off road more then anyone ,if I wanted a desent off road bike ,its hard to beat the 250f an used for like $2500.00