Hawk 250 DLX Motocheez review

[Dusman]

https://youtu.be/E-HzU7wsDpY

[RedCrowRides]

Overall it looks good and the price is right, but I am frankly concerned about the long term reliability of the EFI system and components, as well as wondering what can be done if you decide to add aftermarket filter and pipe ( catless ,etc) which generally requires a reflash and if anyone will step up and offer that service.


Still , it is encouraging to see the Chinese Bike market make the first step into more modern offerings like EFI ,inverted forks, adj, rear shocks and still be new for under $2k.

[NzBrakelathes]

Overall it looks good and the price is right, but I am frankly concerned about the long term reliability of the EFI system and components, as well as wondering what can be done if you decide to add aftermarket filter and pipe ( catless ,etc) which generally requires a reflash and if anyone will step up and offer that service.


Still , it is encouraging to see the Chinese Bike market make the first step into more modern offerings like EFI ,inverted forks, adj, rear shocks and still be new for under $2k.

All that “new stuff” is old hat in China
They’ve long passed this type of bike and due to lack of interest in such a basic model have long progressed on the bigger n better
What you’re seeing is up to 5 years old tech or more in chinatown

[wedooit]

Nice video! Thanks for the post! I didn't know motocheez bought one of these.

comments....the screws that go into the fuel tank, should go into a blind flange. Motocheez did a nice job of making the fiber washers. The original orings, could fail at a later date, and need to be replaced with fiber washers.

A video cd attached? Nice step up!

Also, motocheez found the master link on the bike was not installed properly.

Good video! Thanks for sharing!!!!!

[Skyteamst90]

I wonder if CSC will update their tt250 with EFI? Any one know?

[Musictrek]

https://youtu.be/E-HzU7wsDpY

Glad they used Delphi electronics! I would think it would be pretty reliable. Would think that a elevation change from like sea level to 5,000 ft. would shine on this bike for performance.

[pete]

Overall it looks good and the price is right, but I am frankly concerned about the long term reliability of the EFI system and components, as well as wondering what can be done if you decide to add aftermarket filter and pipe ( catless ,etc) which generally requires a reflash and if anyone will step up and offer that service.


Still , it is encouraging to see the Chinese Bike market make the first step into more modern offerings like EFI ,inverted forks, adj, rear shocks and still be new for under $2k.

Any EFI worth haveing should beable to make the A/F ratio changes..
why they have a few sencers in the system..

If not you can do it manually as you ride for a bout $5 worth of bits..
Adjust the A/F ratio at the turn of a nob...

[ss27gogeta]

Overall it looks good and the price is right, but I am frankly concerned about the long term reliability of the EFI system and components, as well as wondering what can be done if you decide to add aftermarket filter and pipe ( catless ,etc) which generally requires a reflash and if anyone will step up and offer that service.


Still , it is encouraging to see the Chinese Bike market make the first step into more modern offerings like EFI ,inverted forks, adj, rear shocks and still be new for under $2k.

If its like the xpecs efi its speed density and should be able to make adjustments for exhaust and filter upgrades

[ss27gogeta]

Any EFI worth haveing should beable to make the A/F ratio changes..
why they have a few sencers in the system..

If not you can do it manually as you ride for a bout $5 worth of bits..
Adjust the A/F ratio at the turn of a nob...

How do you make one of them fancy devices

[NzBrakelathes]

Any EFI worth haveing should beable to make the A/F ratio changes..
why they have a few sencers in the system..

If not you can do it manually as you ride for a bout $5 worth of bits..
Adjust the A/F ratio at the turn of a nob...

Here's best I know and what I understand be it right or wrong:
Yes that would work at below 6000 RPM, above that Delphi runs of its own map etc. Also the ECU would compensate back to desired AF even if you trick it into thinking the Air Temp is lower (self learning).
Funny thing is this EFI is even a bit better quality that is found on the GPX or PitsterPro which has a cheap DIY style Rojo EFI.

My RX3 and many bikes sold in China use Delphi as so do Briggs and Stratton mower and several other small engines upto 2 cyl.

If you look at the RX3 threads you get some more info BUT I haven't seen much about tuning the ECU and that I believe requires expensive gear etc.
No I never did anything with my RX3 ECU it is stock yet has a big bore.
The DLX has a Delphi made ECU but other parts are not Delphi made but compatible (maybe injector is Delphi maybe not)

[pete]

How do you make one of them fancy devices

1 ohm pentameter....
wired into the air box temp sencer...
you tell lies to the ECU about how hot
the air is...
Tell the ECU the air is hotter " lower O2 level " it will lean the A/F ratio...
Tell the ECU the air is colder " higher O2 level " it will richen the A/F ratio..

On my XT660R I can hear the engine note change while idling
when I turn the nob...




..

[NzBrakelathes]

1 ohm pentameter....
wired into the air box temp sencer...
you tell lies to the ECU about how hot
the air is...
Tell the ECU the air is hotter " lower O2 level " it will lean the A/F ratio...
Tell the ECU the air is colder " higher O2 level " it will richen the A/F ratio..

On my XT660R I can hear the engine note change while idling
when I turn the nob...




..


Correct BUT........
That would only work when the ECU looks at the Air temp so below 6000RPM, also the ECU would be compensating as it would sense from O2 sensor the real AF.
So it would work often to a point but ECU would try n trim back to target AF to 14.6 (I think that is what Delphi commonly set theirs to be).

It should give some benefit but wonder if it is as stable as it could be - also if AF is set good it would run just fine etc.
I know they sold these type of boxes for many bikes using the same method in tricking the ECU but I haven't tried it my self.

[pete]

correct but........
That would only work when the ecu looks at the air temp so below 6000rpm, also the ecu would be compensating as it would sense from o2 sensor the real af.
So it would work often to a point but ecu would try n trim back to target af to 14.6 (i think that is what delphi commonly set theirs to be).

It should give some benefit but wonder if it is as stable as it could be - also if af is set good it would run just fine etc.
I know they sold these type of boxes for many bikes using the same method in tricking the ecu but i haven't tried it my self.

ok....



..

[culcune]

I wonder if CSC will update their tt250 with EFI? Any one know?

It would have to be a different bike IF they didn't want to have any 'down' time not selling TT250s. Big brand motorcycle companies can skip a year or two with bikes while upgrading them and getting them certified once again. Also, from what I understand, once you certify, it is more or less just renewing your certification. They also recertify with California's CARB annually. In other words, a kind of catch-22; they would have to start from ground 0 if they were to upgrade. What if it wouldn't pass, or at least in California? Now they lost sales on the 'old' TT250, and have to deal with delays in getting the new/improved one to market. Also, they run the risk of losing out in California.

They would be better off trying to get Zongshen to create a new bike while continuing sales on the TT250.

[Megadan]

Upgraded charging system and a much better placement of the reg/rec is nice to see.

Re-routed and shorter spark plug wire to stop it melting from the exhaust is a nice little upgrade.

That rattling clutch bothers me. That indicates that some of the clutch discs are sticking due to sitting without the oil making sufficient contact to prevent corrosion. That is a concern to me for early clutch failure.

Stainless steel exhaust is nice, although I am curious about the catalyst. Also kind of annoying that they use the same thumb screw clamp that likes to vibrate loose.

I suspect the speedo is still rather optimistic, but now in digital! At least it has a tach.



Nice video! Thanks for the post! I didn't know motocheez bought one of these.

comments....the screws that go into the fuel tank, should go into a blind flange. Motocheez did a nice job of making the fiber washers. The original orings, could fail at a later date, and need to be replaced with fiber washers.

A video cd attached? Nice step up!

Also, motocheez found the master link on the bike was not installed properly.

Good video! Thanks for sharing!!!!!

A fiber washer isn't a bad idea, but I would swap out to metric nitrile rubber O-rings and hylomar sealant on the threads, which likely would have been more than enough to prevent any leaks.

Honestly, if I were going to spend $2000 on this, I would just spend the extra money to get the TT250. I am silly that way. A more complicated machine for less money sold by a company notorious for screwing people with warranty claims, and still likely plagued with the same quality issues (the seat is a great example).

[NzBrakelathes]

China had an EFI hawk around 4-5 years ago so it’s nothing new.
Due to lack in demand.......
Jailing had it and I rode 1 back from Kunming to Chengdu with my then GF
It was a much better built bike then any other id seen and better speced then Honda
Still had a couple issues with the first owner who did 2 up all over china clocking up 25000 odd km
Every km in China is much harder then the USA let me tell you!

[DualSport]

Just got one pre-assembled from TX. It has the gas tank and clutch problems too.. As was said earlier the clutch rattle is probably gonna be a big problem..

The EFI is a SBC with inline injector and two sensors. I haven't looked at chips to find flash and debug protocols yet. They likely don't use a signed loader on the ECM so it's not gonna be hard to mod the firmware with a bin patching solution over I2C, JTAG, UART or whatever they use..

I'm probably going to keep this and just sale off all my other RPS bikes the QA is slightly better than 2016 and I'd rather deal with carb tuning only on my other bigger bikes.. I'm interested in the 6000RPM firmware issue, though..

[Cravin01]

Just some thoughts.....

This is going to open up the market for those looking into a more affordable China bike but less savvy with carb tuning experience. I'm sure plenty of people have steered away from a China bike due to all the extra attention everyone says you need to give them, this is one big problem killer for quite a few people.

When the dealers get tired if handing out parts to the new EFI system(tanks) the manufacturer will make the few adjustments and this shall pass I hope!

I like the tires, forks and cluster, Expect to be welcoming new members to the forum due to this major upgrade with EFI. add the 200cc lifan Xpect w/ EFI and we are looking at a new era in China bikes. The only question unaswered is how does the China Tariffs play into this new bike launch...Today everything goes up to 15% on China exports.

[DualSport]

They will have to up the QA on the regulator too.. I predict overloading ECM passive components killing the ECM will be an issue.. Also sourcing fuel pumps..

It's basically the 2016 Hawk with inverted forks, more fragile fuel delivery, and a computer connected to a poor all-in-one regulator.. I think "better low-end torque" is all in fuel delivery and no geometry changes..

I plan on making a editor/flasher for the firmware. ECM can be dumped and re-written with basic cheap prototyping hardware over USB. I just have to allocate time to reverse engineer in IDA or Ghidra it looks like ARM v7.

UPDATE: There are already pro Harley tech tools that work with this ECM.. You can get the whole kit for around $1,300.

[RedCrowRides]

Me personally , I would rather have seen an upgraded ( thinking boxed aluminum) swingarm / improved chain adjusters in lieu of the EFI for the Hawk DLX, and maybe some higher quality/ stronger rims , I've seen too many posts about folks folding Hawk front rims in the dirt. I guess what I'm saying is more dirt capability focus ,but I get it's very likely the vast majority of Hawk owners use them quite a bit more for street than dirt ., so i am the odd man out on that issue.

[NzBrakelathes]

Just some thoughts.....

This is going to open up the market for those looking into a more affordable China bike but less savvy with carb tuning experience. I'm sure plenty of people have steered away from a China bike due to all the extra attention everyone says you need to give them, this is one big problem killer for quite a few people.

When the dealers get tired if handing out parts to the new EFI system(tanks) the manufacturer will make the few adjustments and this shall pass I hope!

I like the tires, forks and cluster, Expect to be welcoming new members to the forum due to this major upgrade with EFI. add the 200cc lifan Xpect w/ EFI and we are looking at a new era in China bikes. The only question unaswered is how does the China Tariffs play into this new bike launch...Today everything goes up to 15% on China exports.

Seems you are not a Trump supporter and unaware of the politics of it all.

All the weak point CAN and are EASILY addressed at the factory IF they were not so CHINESE about MONEY ONLY.
Want quality pay quality and keep it American made so jobs for Americans, but they want for a penny a pound of value and you have been exploited and addicted for many years.

[NzBrakelathes]

Me personally , I would rather have seen an upgraded ( thinking boxed aluminum) swingarm / improved chain adjusters in lieu of the EFI for the Hawk DLX, and maybe some higher quality/ stronger rims , I've seen too many posts about folks folding Hawk front rims in the dirt. I guess what I'm saying is more dirt capability focus ,but I get it's very likely the vast majority of Hawk owners use them quite a bit more for street than dirt ., so i am the odd man out on that issue.

In China there are many and have been Hawk like bikes made fairly well - at USD$2000ish retail IN CHINA.

All these cheap things are a consumer drug........

[NzBrakelathes]

Just got one pre-assembled from TX. It has the gas tank and clutch problems too.. As was said earlier the clutch rattle is probably gonna be a big problem..

The EFI is a SBC with inline injector and two sensors. I haven't looked at chips to find flash and debug protocols yet. They likely don't use a signed loader on the ECM so it's not gonna be hard to mod the firmware with a bin patching solution over I2C, JTAG, UART or whatever they use..

I'm probably going to keep this and just sale off all my other RPS bikes the QA is slightly better than 2016 and I'd rather deal with carb tuning only on my other bigger bikes.. I'm interested in the 6000RPM firmware issue, though..

http://bitedit.ru/en

Search the RX3 section on EFI - same ECU and many other bikes and stationary engines use it.
Delphi MT05 or MT 05.2
AJP, PR5 also use this type and so did Harley Davidson back 20 years ago - there are a couple of versions of ECU and many programs to suit differnt bikes of course.

It is a small engine up to twin cylinder EFI system and often ONLY the ECU is Delphi but other parts are from companies making compatible thottle bodies and or sensor etc - fairly common

[DualSport]

Me personally , I would rather have seen an upgraded ( thinking boxed aluminum) swingarm / improved chain adjusters in lieu of the EFI for the Hawk DLX, and maybe some higher quality/ stronger rims , I've seen too many posts about folks folding Hawk front rims in the dirt. I guess what I'm saying is more dirt capability focus ,but I get it's very likely the vast majority of Hawk owners use them quite a bit more for street than dirt ., so i am the odd man out on that issue.

Pirelli HD tubes and Tusk rims are what I put on my keepers.. I just order whole wheels but I measured all spokes and bearing spec and posted here once. I run Timken bearings cause the factory is close by..

I foiled the entire front-end on a Magician once just jumping three feet down at about 25MPH..

[OneLeggedRider]

Wow, what a piece of.. What are you paying the extra $600 for, the factory fuel leak or the bad clutch? And it requires even more assembly than my Hawk did? Which the TBR7 requires very little of. It did start and idle pretty well but I foresee troubles in the future. And I didn't see anything about valve adjustment. The only real benefit is the forks. As another poster said I'd rather have better rims and swingarm. :tdown:

[NzBrakelathes]

Wow, what a piece of.. What are you paying the extra $600 for, the factory fuel leak or the bad clutch? And it requires even more assembly than my Hawk did? Which the TBR7 requires very little of. It did start and idle pretty well but I foresee troubles in the future. And I didn't see anything about valve adjustment. The only real benefit is the forks. As another poster said I'd rather have better rims and swingarm. :tdown:

Then the blue eagle fits your demands!

[DualSport]

Wow, what a piece of.. What are you paying the extra $600 for, the factory fuel leak or the bad clutch? And it requires even more assembly than my Hawk did? Which the TBR7 requires very little of. It did start and idle pretty well but I foresee troubles in the future. And I didn't see anything about valve adjustment. The only real benefit is the forks. As another poster said I'd rather have better rims and swingarm. :tdown:

It's mostly identical to the original hawk save some trim, suspension, and EFI.. Engine and frame are identical..

I just got it for EFI cause a jap 250 with efi is at least two time what you pay for a carb 650 jap dual sport.. You go over 250 with EFI with a jap maker you're going too close to new car principle.. Basically Husqvarna 700 level cash..

[Wbflyer]

I will say, being that this bike is DOT certified makes knowing you can ride it legally is very appealing. The Carb version is a crap shoot, being in Oregon I can't get the DMV to tell me if it's legal or not without getting the full VIN and nobody will give me the full VIN.. frustrating.

[2LZ]

Once again, I'm in the minority here but I still don't see the advantage to a more complex EFI system, over a gravity-fed carb on such a small engine, other than maybe CARB or EPA regs.

People make such a big deal over tuning a carb, when it's not tough at all. Heck, my neighbor left his TT250 stock, except for the EBay pipe, and it runs perfectly.

On the other hand, my RX3 with it's injection, leaves me at a total loss for tuning or engine mods other than the cylinder kit. It's very frustrating. No reflashes readily available or anything. It still likes to occasionally stall and I can't do a damn thing about it. If it was a carb, I would have had it fixed long ago.

NZ- You keep saying how what we get here is old tech in China. You should start a thread on all the newest latest bikes that are available there for the masses, with pics, pricing and specs. That would be awesome reading for us.

[DualSport]

Once again, I'm in the minority here but I still don't see the advantage to a more complex EFI system, over a gravity-fed carb on such a small engine, other than maybe CARB or EPA regs.

People make such a big deal over tuning a carb, when it's not tough at all. Heck, my neighbor left his TT250 stock, except for the EBay pipe, and it runs perfectly.

On the other hand, my RX3 with it's injection, leaves me at a total loss for tuning or engine mods other than the cylinder kit. It's very frustrating. No reflashes readily available or anything. It still likes to occasionally stall and I can't do a damn thing about it. If it was a carb, I would have had it fixed long ago.

NZ- You keep saying how what we get here is old tech in China. You should start a thread on all the newest latest bikes that are available there for the masses, with pics, pricing and specs. That would be awesome reading for us.

For people who don't want to adjust jets and mix while touring or on season changes.. As far as I know EFI dual-sport market is so expensive nobody touches it, so this is just a easy-tune cheap bike thing..

[NzBrakelathes]

I will say, being that this bike is DOT certified makes knowing you can ride it legally is very appealing. The Carb version is a crap shoot, being in Oregon I can't get the DMV to tell me if it's legal or not without getting the full VIN and nobody will give me the full VIN.. frustrating.

Seller surely must warranty it’s legal or not legal in your state
The EFI is sold as 50 state legal no?
The TBR7 49 state legal and of course commie CA not

[LifeRider]

First, I would like to thank MotoCheez for everything he has contributed to the community. Great! Video and I hope to view more on the Hawk DLX in the near future.

Hope to avoid getting too lengthy but would like to share my thoughts on the DLX as a recent purchaser. Owning over 60 motorcycles during my riding career, starting with those from the mid 60’s through 2019’s.

Let us start with what seems to be the big topic here EFI. Consider this as one of greatest leaps forward in transportation. Just look at all of our commuter vehicles. Personally, most of us would not purchase a carbureted new car. Ease of starting, smooth running through all RPM ranges and fuel efficient to name a few.

I am impressed with the inverted front forks.

Based on the intent of this motorcycle the larger tire diameter size is big plus for rolling through ruts, potholes and wheeling over rocks/tree limbs. Tire tread pattern is a nice selection for street/trail use when you are trying to build for a global market.

Gage cluster is outstanding for this price point and a check box upgrade for most of us over the much more basic gage.

The upgraded exhaust is now titanium, which was a pleasant surprise and sounds good too!

Included is an improved fuel cap for which shows no sign of leaking.

I must include for those that detract from some assembly required the following. After raising three boys and distilling the importance of maintaining their vehicles, developing basic mechanical skills what a great project. In today’s world, just driving any manual shift vehicle is an anti-theft device.

As delivered the valve adjustment was very tight and needed to be set along with the drive chain. Again a great lesson for my nephew to learn.

With all of the upgrades that come on this bike it is easy to find the value in this offering.

“Please appreciate those who RIDE, Whatever they RIDE, They help keep us RIDING”

[Megadan]

If the exhaust is actual titanium I would be impressed. To my eye the pipes look like stainless steel to me.

[LifeRider]

If the exhaust is actual titanium I would be impressed. To my eye the pipes look like stainless steel to me.

I am sure it is just a coating like they put on cutting tools.

This one suprised me also:

FINAL DRIVE
520 Chain

[Megadan]

I am sure it is just a coating like they put on cutting tools.

This one suprised me also:

FINAL DRIVE
520 Chain

That doesn't surprise me as much. They basically upgraded the bike with all of the same stuff we did on our bikes and added inverted forks.

[NzBrakelathes]

This bike still wouldn’t sell in China domestic markets
Quality too low for most riders n learners here

[Megadan]

This bike still wouldn’t sell in China domestic markets
Quality too low for most riders n learners here

And?:hmm:

[2LZ]

This bike still wouldn’t sell in China domestic markets
Quality too low for most riders n learners here
I still think you should start a thread of the bikes that are available in China. We'd love to see them and get your insight into each bike.

[chuck]

https://youtu.be/E-HzU7wsDpY
the swingarm is still cheezy though.

[NzBrakelathes]

I still think you should start a thread of the bikes that are available in China. We'd love to see them and get your insight into each bike.

I can't write and I hate writing - sorry :shrug:
Welcome to come visit and I will show you around tho :clap:

[pete]

I can't write and I hate writing - sorry :shrug:
Welcome to come visit and I will show you around tho :clap:


where are you ?..

I could be in Guangzhou in April next year..
If I decide to make a 3 hour stop over into a
couple days...


...

[NzBrakelathes]

where are you ?..

I could be in Guangzhou in April next year..
If I decide to make a 3 hour stop over into a
couple days...


...

Chengdu that’s a few joys flying from GZ
Sichuan province

[NzBrakelathes]

Going to Chongqing tomorrow to the CIMA bike show
There won’t be cheap bikes or brands etc but I’ll take pics n stuff and post on Instagram etc
Indian motorcycles is there and I know the dude :)

[NzBrakelathes]

https://www.instagram.com/p/B2rW3BJHgzR/?igshid=ac3gb3ssnch7

[wedooit]

I wanted to comment to Jim...
Thanks for your thots on the dlx, and especially your amazing background and knowledge of the bike world. I appreciate your wisdom.

The dlx has a place in a target market, with price points, etc. Keep us posted with more comments, as all the info here assists many.
thanks again!

[Sochin]

If I wasn't so vested into my current Hawk, I would def. consider the DLX. But then again I've learned a whole slew about carburation on this old Hawk of mine. I've put only 1100 miles on it this year.........my time is spread too thin on all the junk I've got. :P

[wedooit]

If I wasn't so vested into my current Hawk, I would def. consider the DLX. But then again I've learned a whole slew about carburation on this old Hawk of mine. I've put only 1100 miles on it this year.........my time is spread too thin on all the junk I've got. :P

congrats on your 1100 mile pin. 2000 miles will put you on the bonus round!
Wish I and we can say the same. Our time is also spread way too thin!!!!

[Cravin01]

Seems you are not a Trump supporter and unaware of the politics of it all.

All the weak point CAN and are EASILY addressed at the factory IF they were not so CHINESE about MONEY ONLY.
Want quality pay quality and keep it American made so jobs for Americans, but they want for a penny a pound of value and you have been exploited and addicted for many years.

Just seen this and I'm aware the Politics of it all equal squeeze China by the throat till they play nice!

Intellectual property theft, False boosting the value of the yen, government backed huawei to sell below market value and continue stealing G5 tech from Cisco along with possible data collection from those devices spearheading a ban from Australia then the US. we haven't even talked about the trash they have dumped just outside of the Philippines to create a military base in international waters. While you seem to find it easy to pass judgment on someones level of intellect you may want to think about it before you post and be careful what you type over there in China so you don't just go MIA....It happens.