ATV Discounter Scam thread + Fraudulent title thread

[PorterzCustomz]

So I finally get my bike today after 2 weeks. I was pretty excited that was until I open the box and find out it looks a bit different then what I ordered. The side plastics on the gas tank are a different design, the seat is different, the rear side panels are different,different front headlight design exc. There is battery acid leaking everywhere all over the parts. They sent me this lame baby blue (the picture makes it look nicer then it is) 05/06 Model instead of my navy blue 2008... I don't know if they thought I was mentally challenged and could not tell the difference or what so I call them up smokin from the ears of course they go to "connect" me to the shipping dept. and I get hung up on. I call back at least 6 times before I call a different one of their numbers and finally get to talk to someone. First she tells me I must be mistaken because it is the correct one then she finally believes me when I refuse to back down but tells me to send her pictures and then call back Monday because the manager left for the weekend.. I do some investigating and realize that apparently im not the first to have this type of problem with them and their 20 negative feedback strikes reflect it from the past 6 months. I just hope they send me out the correct bike and pick this one up without making me wait another month 8O I don't even know if they will take care of me on Monday if not I need to consider other options.

This is the link to the bike I bought and this is what I got.. You can see on the tag it was made 04/2006. You can also see some of what the battery acid did in the box in the last pic.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBTOX%3AIT&viewitem=&item=190205085726&_trksid=p3984.cTODAY.m238.lVI

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/461/bikesidelr6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7089/sidedy7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/4633/boxex3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[warrior91]

NOT A GOOD START. :roll:

:arrow: http://www.chinariders.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3542

[bronevaya]

thats shittty.

looks like even the chain wasnt put on right

[motohillbilly]

Is that a gy2?

[iMoose]

And the sticker doesn't seem to make it street legal either. Says OFF-HIGHWAY twice. Did they tell you it was?

[Gimpdiggity]

And the sticker doesn't seem to make it street legal either. Says OFF-HIGHWAY twice. Did they tell you it was?

When I look at the site he bought it from, they say it's street legal in "most states."

I think what that means is that the bike itself meets all of the DOT and EPA standards...but it's TECHNICALLY an off road bike. However, the fact that it has brake lights, turn signals, headlights, blah blah blah allow it to be street legal most places.

Like for example...here in Michigan, you can take quite a few legal dirtbikes (that don't normally get driven on the street) and make them street legal by adding the requisite lights and such.

I'm ASSUMING that's what that sticker is all about...but yah, I noticed that too.

[Jim]

Like I mentioned in this thread : http://chinariders.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3542&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

It is not always what you buy is what you get...

Hopefully you can get it straightened out though

[culcune]

Man. I'd be pissed! :evil: Isn't it legal to shoot someone in Texas for sending you the wrong bike?!?! :twisted:

[kczukiman]

That totally sucks...

[TeamCheap]

Yep, they pulled a fast one.

Forget about all that trivial side panel, tank, seat and headlight stuff and the baby blue color :lol: because from what I see you ordered a bike that has a counter balanced engine and got an older non-counter balanced model that they are most likely trying to get rid of.

The leaking battery acid is a big problem for you to be able to assemble it safely or to ship it back safely.Plus what has gottten damaged by the leaking acid?
(of course we all know that regular old BAKING soda will neutralize that battery acid dont we)

Maybe you can get them to just refund $400-600 bucks or so and call it even since they are going to be out a lot more than that by the time they get it all straight with shipping the right bike and paying for the acid spill cleanup in your garage.
Of course then you'd be stuck with that baby blue bike.

call the shipping company and have them check that trailer for leaking acid and let them bark at ATVdiscounters for awhile for moving unsafe cargo.




Looking in the background of the pictures on their auction I wonder if ALL those quads are inventory or in for service/warranty work. :lol:

[Gimpdiggity]

I find this situation oddly deceitful.

If you look closely at the auction pages, it shows the pictures of the newer Lifan bikes...however, if you click the links to "see pictures" it shows pictures of EXACTLY the bike that was shipped to Porterz.

Seems like bait and switch to me...

[TeamCheap]

Well I feel that porterz has the upper hand in many ways and will win this dispute very easily to his satisfaction.

How did you pay? credit card? dispute it and let the credit card company chew on them a bit.

I wonder if EBAY would step in and help (I doubt it) but I thought they had some vehicle purchase protection crap.
http://pages.motors.ebay.com/buy/purchase-protection/index.html

[PorterzCustomz]

I will see what they say monday. I just want the bike I ordered.. I do not want this one even if I get money back. I am worried that if they do take it back they will just say to ship the old one back first and wait for the other one to come in stock and they will then have my money (credit card) and a tracking number where they "sent" me the bike to give to the credit card company so I cannot make a claim. I would only feel comfortable if when they droped off the correct bike they picked up this one at the same time. Oh yea.. and I would not let the driver leave untill I check the box lol I would be fine with that but it would be nice if they did something to make up for the waiting and the trouble like extra parts or something but judging by their feedback they "Have no business ethics" lol

I was pretty upset when I first opened the box I almost kicked the bike but I held myself back :)

- Eric

PS: I found out it originated from "American Lifan Industry, Inc 10990 Petal St, Suite 500 Dallas, TX75238. That's what the stickers said on the parts bags and owners manual.

[srreynolds2003]

That sucks!!
I'm hear in texas if you need a help hanging someone. :D

[PorterzCustomz]

That sucks!!
I'm hear in texas if you need a help hanging someone. :D

Awesome.. Can you call the Texas rangers for me? Get in touch with Tervette or Walker. If they are busy call CD!

[tcs]

The EPA plate says the bike was certified to the off-road emission standard (which just so happens to be less demanding than the on-road emission standard). It is in violation of US federal regulations for a licensed motor vehicle dealer to sell that bike for use on the street - or in fact for the manufacturer to even equip it with only-needed-on-the-street features like turn signals and a license holder. That, my friend, is a black market bike.

But could you license it and ride it on the street? In most places in the USA you sure can, because the local county tax offices aren't paid or trained to enforce federal regulations.

HTH,
tcs

[tcs]

BTW, I seem to remember that on the "Lifan Dealerships in Texas, DFW area" thread you mentioned how much less expensive your 'net ordered bike was going to be than one another poster had purchased at an authorized, brick&mortar American Lifan dealer.

tcs

[AZ200cc]

Not a good way to start out..Good luck geting it resolved man.

[red2003]

I can just about promise you what they will tell you in the end. They will tell you to ship the bike back to them (at your expense, $300 +/-) and they will ship you the correct bike (also at your expense). Then, "Oops, looks like the bike you want is temperarily out of stock. But, if you don't mind waiting for the next shipment to come in from mainland China (6 - 10 weeks), they will ship you the correct bike when it arrives. OR, you can just keep that one". You, my friend, just got the shaft (dry, I might add)! If you used PayPal, file a grievance and get your money back. Then the ball is in their court to prove you DID NOT get screwed.

[PorterzCustomz]

BTW, I seem to remember that on the "Lifan Dealerships in Texas, DFW area" thread you mentioned how much less expensive your 'net ordered bike was going to be than one another poster had purchased at an authorized, brick&mortar American Lifan dealer.

tcs

yea according to them they are an authorized American Lifan dealer.

[PorterzCustomz]

I can just about promise you what they will tell you in the end. They will tell you to ship the bike back to them (at your expense, $300 +/-) and they will ship you the correct bike (also at your expense). Then, "Oops, looks like the bike you want is temperarily out of stock. But, if you don't mind waiting for the next shipment to come in from mainland China (6 - 10 weeks), they will ship you the correct bike when it arrives. OR, you can just keep that one". You, my friend, just got the shaft (dry, I might add)! If you used PayPal, file a grievance and get your money back. Then the ball is in their court to prove you DID NOT get screwed.

well, we will have to wait untill monday to see if I got horsef*cked won't we?

PS: It's also strange instead of a 14F and 46R sprocket it has a 14F and 56R. That seems like a really big difference. That means its geared lower for less top end speed? Maybe because it's an older model.. I know it sounds stupid but im really picky and I don't like the older styling of the bike or the color and I don't like the idea of the older motor especially with all the vibration issues I hear of.

Can they get away with this!?? I did not use paypal. In fact they actually filed a non payment strike against me on ebay because they made a mistake because I called and used my cc instead because my paypal was not working that day. I now regret not using it. Perhaps thats why they did it because they thought they could get away with it since I dident use paypal? Maybe im overreacting and it was just a mistake and they will fix it but I hate waiting to find out my destiny.

[Gimpdiggity]

Porter,

If you DID pay by credit card or PayPal, if they aren't willing to do anything for you at all, you should definitely file a claim with the credit card or PayPal.

Hell, I might do it even if they say they'll fix the problem just to be on the safe side.

If you paid by PayPal and they say they are taking care of it, filing the dispute with PayPal may help th "hurry" the situation along...

[TeamCheap]

Looks like monday will only be the start of it for porterz.
The worst thing is he got an overpriced, outdated, non-counter balanced bike(with acid damage).

I myself will most likely never do another mail order bike and I'm seriously thinking of just selling our bikes and getting my wife a tw200 and me a drz400s.

Looks like I'll be riding my bike before porterz, now mind you it is still in the 40's here for high temps and snow on the ground and I wont ride on the streets untill a good thunderstorm washes all that nasty salt off the roads so it could be a month or so for me.
This michigan winter stinks but april 1st means new ORV tags and we can take the quads up north and ride.

[Gimpdiggity]

Add an "M" to the end of that DRZ-400S...

Drooooooolllll....DRZ-400SM....DROOOOOOLLLL!!!!!!

[panamarandy]

looks like they are trying to screw you bro..

[kczukiman]

I had this same thing happen to me with another dealer on an ATV.They told me that the owner was out of town in meetings and when he got back he could make the decission on what to do.You can read the full account in dealer review forum.
It took a month for them to make it rite.If I were you I would start the ball rolling on filing a claim with the credit card company.Be prepared to hear every excuse known to man and everything they offer you will be to the benifit of them not you.
At least by filing a dispute they know your seriouse and that may give you some leverage.
I went to their web site and I couln't find anything about Lifan?
http://www.atvdiscounter.com/

[Jim]

Wheres the link to the actual page you bought your bike from?
edit, found it on page 1

anyways,

Looking here, http://www.atvdiscounter.com/Dirt-Bikes/Size/200cc-22808/3511403-DB-03/ProductInfo.aspx

You will see pictures of the balanced engine, but it does not say it has it, in fact it says
# Engine Type:Single-cylinder,air-cooled,four-stroke
# Engine model: 163FML-2

Which is the non-balanced version...

Of course, I don't know what the ad you got it from actually said, and either way they are trying to screw you...



edit 2:

looking at the ad more closely (your ebay ad)

It also states the same details about the engine
# Engine Type:Single-cylinder,air-cooled,four-stroke
# Engine model: 163FML-2

Which is non balanced, however they are using pictures of the balanced engine...

Also they said you were getting a gy5 and you got a gy2,
smaller gas tank
lower seat height

I'm not sure what else

I highly doubt they are an "authorized american lifan dealer" like you said you saw somewhere though... I don't know where they told you that, but I bet if you check with american lifan you will soon find out it was a lie, I think they might be interested to find out that they were claiming to be... Unless you just got that impression from the swing arm decal or something, I believe all the US lifans will say american lifan on them if they came from Chingqing, I believe it has to do with how C.L. exports them...

[Jim]

I find this situation oddly deceitful.

If you look closely at the auction pages, it shows the pictures of the newer Lifan bikes...however, if you click the links to "see pictures" it shows pictures of EXACTLY the bike that was shipped to Porterz.

Seems like bait and switch to me...

Yes you are correct on that too, if you click to see additional images, you see the bike he got...

However the ad was actually for a GY-5, but maybe not the balanced one...

"# Year:
2008
# Make:
Lifan
# Model:
LF200GY-5"


About the sprockets, I believe the 2's usually had the different sprockets from the 5's, but I also think it is up to the importer to specify...

I think your best arguments are the damage (battery), and the wrong model, you should have got a # Motorcycle model: LF200GY-5 , but you got a LF200GY-2. The engine is listed as unbalanced, but pictured as balanced... If they told you in an email or something that it was balanced you may have a stronger argument there.

[TeamCheap]

For a while EBAY was even tight on the color of the item being correct and that the stated color in the auction is what they had to send you or something to that effect but anyway.
That auction is very misleading if they have all those pictures of the one bike and then a cheesy tiny link to pictures of what they will be sending.

I really dont see much of a leg for "ATVdeceivers" to stand on. :lol:

I say hit them fast, hard and often until you win.

[Gimpdiggity]

Take this for what it's worth, Porterz...

...but I sent an e-mail yesterday to the guy at MotoXtreme (because I'm still not 100% sure if I want the Hi-Bird or the Lifan) and asked him if he was selling only American Lifan bikes. He told me that ALL of the bikes that are actually American Lifan bikes come with the sprockets setup for highway driving. He said taht I may be getting confused and that some of the Lifan bikes from China will have the 56t rear sprockets.

I also found out by researching that American Lifan is pretty strict with who can and can't ship their products. MotoXtreme is one of the FEW dealers I've found that is actually allowed to drop ship American Lifan bikes.

I think that you got screwed, bro. I think you got a bike that is a Lifan, but not an American Lifan. I don't think that makes a very big deal, but it's a crappy thing to not get what you're paying for.

And trust me...since you used your credit card instead of PayPal you are in good hands. Call your credit card company and tell them you got shafted. They WILL get you your money back.

Also, in a really crappy way, thanks for posting about this. I was thinking about purchasing the Lifan from ATVDiscounters because they were cheaper than MotoXtreme...but after reading this, I will now be getting my Lifan from MotoX or the Hi-Bird from VBikes.

[knothead]

I say hit them fast, hard and often until you win.

X2!

I agree with filing a complaint tith your credit card company. Phone them up and tell them exactly what's going on. You didn't get the bike you ordered at all, wrong year and wrong model. Usually the card companies are really good about stopping payments on something like this (drop the FRAUD word, for that's what it is!).

Stop payment on the card, tell ATVDiscounters that they need to arrange a pickup if they want the bike back and that you WILL NOT pay any form of shipping. What they did really is illegal, let them know that you know it is. Don't back down at all, you should be able to contact your local district attorney's office for more info on what recourse is available to you (make sure that ATVDiscounters know that you're contacting the DA, if the bike was shipped across state lines you might want to look into any federal laws that have been broken as well. You can undo what's been done, but you can make ATVDiscounter's regret trying to screw you!

[motohillbilly]

As I have said before , I bought from these guys. But I walked in and said "Ill take that one". I did a lot of talking with "AMERICAN LIFAN" before my purchase. They told me that these bikes did come from them. Kinda blows the Network, Authorized dealer thing out of the water. But I can tell you for sure that there is no 2008 bikes in thier inventory. 06 07 only. And as far as thier warranty .... take it with you in the morning when you go to the restroom. I had the parts guy backed into a corner trying to get a lens cover. If you need someone local to help deal with the corporate office let me know. BTW that number is 817-717-7018 and 817 717 7012 in fact 7001-7019 will get you different people with the company.

[PorterzCustomz]

As I have said before , I bought from these guys. But I walked in and said "Ill take that one". I did a lot of talking with "AMERICAN LIFAN" before my purchase. They told me that these bikes did come from them. Kinda blows the Network, Authorized dealer thing out of the water. But I can tell you for sure that there is no 2008 bikes in thier inventory. 06 07 only. And as far as thier warranty .... take it with you in the morning when you go to the restroom. I had the parts guy backed into a corner trying to get a lens cover. If you need someone local to help deal with the corporate office let me know. BTW that number is 817-717-7018 and 817 717 7012 in fact 7001-7019 will get you different people with the company.

oh my.. they don't even have 2008 bikes in stock and they are claiming to sell them... 8O thanks.. Is the 2007 the same style and bike as the 2008?

Wait.. If they don't have any 08 bikes how did they take the picture of it in front of their store?

[Jim]

Take this for what it's worth, Porterz...

...but I sent an e-mail yesterday to the guy at MotoXtreme (because I'm still not 100% sure if I want the Hi-Bird or the Lifan) and asked him if he was selling only American Lifan bikes. He told me that ALL of the bikes that are actually American Lifan bikes come with the sprockets setup for highway driving. He said taht I may be getting confused and that some of the Lifan bikes from China will have the 56t rear sprockets.

I also found out by researching that American Lifan is pretty strict with who can and can't ship their products. MotoXtreme is one of the FEW dealers I've found that is actually allowed to drop ship American Lifan bikes.

I think that you got screwed, bro. I think you got a bike that is a Lifan, but not an American Lifan. I don't think that makes a very big deal, but it's a crappy thing to not get what you're paying for.

And trust me...since you used your credit card instead of PayPal you are in good hands. Call your credit card company and tell them you got shafted. They WILL get you your money back.

Also, in a really crappy way, thanks for posting about this. I was thinking about purchasing the Lifan from ATVDiscounters because they were cheaper than MotoXtreme...but after reading this, I will now be getting my Lifan from MotoX or the Hi-Bird from VBikes.

American Lifan used to sell GY2's but they don't any more as far as I know, they've moved to the gy5. As far as I know the 2's always had different sprocket setup then the 5's...

I really don't think this sale of the bike or getting screwed by the dealer really has any relation to A.L..

Apparently A.L. is owned by Chongqing Lifan, and really I believe this is the only reason the bike says anything about it, import export rules or something... But this all has to do with ATV Discounters and NOT A.L..

Like mr Hyak has said, I don't think there really is a specific model year, you look mainly at the manufacturing date, the differences all come as per importers specs...

Technically the ebay ad says you get the NON balanced motor, however it has it pictured, you should check out what ebay's policies are on this. The ad also says you get a GY5, this is where they really screwed you, they sent you a GY2 instead. The leaky acid is an accident, the wrong model is them screwing you... Either way I'm not sure you will end up with a balanced engine, but definetly check what ebay's policies are for posting images of the WRONG product... The pictures are of the right model bike, wrong model engine, they sent you the wrong model bike, with the right model engine.

[motohillbilly]

Call A.L. They will tell you that ATV Discounters got the bikes from them. Best I can tell the bike pictured I can tell its an 08. I didnt say they never had them. I said they dont have them now. I called every store and thier internet department... none!

[motohillbilly]

I did a better bussiness beuro search. They have 31 claims filed against them.

[Cal25]

That bites that you did not get what you expected. I told you that I looked at that place before I bought a HiBird. All they had then was 1 gy2 at the Ft worth store. I looked at the Watauga store and they did not have any 200's. The Stemmons Frwy store did have a GY5 But the salesman insisted that it was a dirt bike and illegal on the street.
I hope it is resolved to your satisfaction but have a feeling it wont be.

[elroyjetsn]

You could ask them to ship you a set of body panels with a better color and the correct sprocket and a new parts box and contents. Hang the neg feedback over them and do the hold on the CC if necessary.

At least that way you'll have something to ride without waiting another month and shipping hassles. :cry:

I thought A.L. doesn't allow internet sales anyway???

[mrhyak]

The bike most likely was old-stock that AL dumped to that importer
company when they switched to GY-5 (just a hunch).
It looks to be exactly like the GY-2 that Hoopers sells.
http://www.hooperimports.com/zoom_img/LF200GY-2_1147057362.jpg

[katoranger]

File a claim with you Credit Card company. They will act faster if they don't have the money.

Do it now. You only have 60 days from the sale date.

Tell them to come and get that bike and buy one from someone reputable.

If they don't come and get it sell me the rear caliper and the sidepanels. :lol:

Allen

[Ream]

So sorry to here you got screwed!! Thats what I was trying to get across about ATV Discouters on Ebay,& their own website.Pics of 2 different bikes,which one do you receive??The one no one wants,and the "dealer" knows it!!Hopefully they will make it right!!Good luck!!!

[panamarandy]

brother, I know how you feel, I bought my bike a 2007 for over 2 grand, and it sits in the shed not running...

[mrhyak]

I was checking the feedback for ATV Discounter and there are MANY
unhappy customers. All of which ATV Discounter comes up with retaliation
remarks in the feedback.

I was wondering about the battery. Was the acid leaking out of the battery,
or the fluid container you pour into the battery?? Sorry to hear about your
hassle, but if you paid with a credit card I'd think about doing what was
mentioned earlier and try to cancel payment if you can. At least this would
force ATV-D to respond to your complaints. I

[lonfu]

portz dude, sad to see the acid bottle broke. Do not keep the bike, seen this before on a car, the fumes from the acid will speed up the degradation of the rubber parts on the bike. Hard to tell which ones and how soon. Best send it back no matter how much of a discount they offer you. I ordered the same bike from them and recieved the exact pictured bike, a red one. LF200-GY5, It was manufactured in 6/07 guess that makes it an 08. I think american Lifan drop shipped the wrong Bike. They should pay the shipping, they can call for a pickup. Most bike manufactures start there productions year changes about this time, but there is no fixed change over date due to dealer order demand. I will tell you this, atvdicounter states that it has disc on both front and rear, but in the pics it has drum on the back. Mine has drum. I'm guessing at this but maybe the disc on the rear is to start with model year 09 which starts in june of 08. Judging from your manufacture date you have a 2005 model year, 06/04 to 06/05. Just pack it up, tell them to come and get it. Meanwhile, stop your credit card charge, tell atvdiscounter that you will buy another bike after this one gets piked up. Drop shipping is very common here in the United States, I doubt atvdicounters ever saw what bike was shipped. When I called them for my title papers, they had to ask me for the vin number! Yup, drop shipping, best thing since the ole' Sears and Roebuck catalog. Keep us all updated, I noticed that rightwayatv no longer carries dirt bikes. Wonder what's up with that?

[lonfu]

portz dude, sad to see the acid bottle broke. Do not keep the bike, seen this before on a car, the fumes from the acid will speed up the degradation of the rubber parts on the bike. Hard to tell which ones and how soon. Best send it back no matter how much of a discount they offer you. I ordered the same bike from them and recieved the exact pictured bike, a red one. LF200-GY5, It was manufactured in 6/07 guess that makes it an 08. I think american Lifan drop shipped the wrong Bike. They should pay the shipping, they can call for a pickup. Most bike manufactures start there productions year changes about this time, but there is no fixed change over date due to dealer order demand. I will tell you this, atvdicounter states that it has disc on both front and rear, but in the pics it has drum on the back. Mine has drum. I'm guessing at this but maybe the disc on the rear is to start with model year 09 which starts in june of 08. Judging from your manufacture date you have a 2005 model year, 06/04 to 06/05. Just pack it up, tell them to come and get it. Meanwhile, stop your credit card charge, tell atvdiscounter that you will buy another bike after this one gets piked up. Drop shipping is very common here in the United States, I doubt atvdicounters ever saw what bike was shipped. When I called them for my title papers, they had to ask me for the vin number! Yup, drop shipping, best thing since the ole' Sears and Roebuck catalog. Keep us all updated, I noticed that rightwayatv no longer carries dirt bikes. Wonder what's up with that?

[Jim]

I think american Lifan drop shipped the wrong Bike.

The bike is from ATV Discounters, what does A.L. have to do with any of this?

[mrhyak]

I think american Lifan drop shipped the wrong Bike.

The bike is from ATV Discounters, what does A.L. have to do with any of this?

American Lifan supplies bikes to ATV Discounters. It states right on the
tag "Imported by American Lifan".
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7089/sidedy7.jpg

[katoranger]

If haven't called the credit card company yet do it. Dispute the charges and also get the shipper involve like mentioned before with the hazardous material claim.

Allen

[theENIGMATIC]

That sux man.....that is a wicked bike bike though.cool color, I know its all opinion but I like it better than the ones they posted, jeez man the transport driver must of thought the electrolyte was a water bottle and dipped into it in the Texas heat......man hope it works out dude...dont kill anyone though bro, not worth it!!! :P :evil: :twisted:

[theENIGMATIC]

Yeah and I dont think emissions really matter in most places regarding motorcycles, except maybe Cali.. motorcycles are usually alot better than other vehicles on emissions right, I know in Canada motorcycles dont really need to be e-tested to comply!

[PorterzCustomz]

I sent them an email explaining what happened and sent pictures on friday. I also sent them 2 messages on Ebay. They did not respond to either one. Today I called up the main number and asked to speak with a manager since he was "gone" on Friday. The man at the main number told me that the date on the bike means nothing and I must be mistaken because they have never had a problem before. He also said he dident know where to direct me because they have never had an issue like this. After awhile of thinking he finally decided to have me call "shipping" I called and it rang but no one picked up. I left a message. I called back a few times during the day with the same results. I also called "Billing" 3 or 4 times but they did not pickup and it just went to voice mail. I finally called the main number back and the guy said I would just have to wait for them to call me back from the message I left. It is now the end of the day and no responce to my email I sent on Friday OR the Ebay messages. No call back from "shipping" or "billing" I wounder if they have caller id or they got the word out that there is an angry customer after them.

[katoranger]

Again. You need to do THIS!!!!

You have 60 days from WHEN the CHARGE was MADE. Not from when you received the product. I can guarantee you that the credit card company will get results. Its like sicking a dog on them.

If haven't called the credit card company yet do it. Dispute the charges and also get the shipper involve like mentioned before with the hazardous material claim.

Allen

[kczukiman]

I am a member of another ATV sight and this is the samething that happend to members over there from ATV discounters.You are in for a ride and a half.

[AZ200cc]

Might be a good idea to print the ad on ebay and also have photos of the actual product sent..Any proof to the card co of how it was not the bike You ordered. It's all in proving it

[katoranger]

Might be a good idea to print the ad on ebay and also have photos of the actual product sent..Any proof to the card co of how it was not the bike You ordered. It's all in proving it

The CC WILL side with you with the pictures and the printout of the auction.

I am telling you right now to stop calling ATV discounters and CALL the CC company. The card company is there 24/7 for you. They have lawyers that won't cost you anything.

Allen

[kczukiman]

What is holding you up from fileing a dispute with your credit card co.?That is your only recourse.

Man. I'd be pissed! :evil: Isn't it legal to shoot someone in Texas for sending you the wrong bike?!?! :twisted:

Yep!

[theENIGMATIC]

It might be a bit more difficult to file a Credit Card dispute because the bike was purchased on Ebay, so they would be involved, not too sure though?
Maybe contact ebay and dispute it...maybe working it out so you get the bike you thought you would be getting might be better??

[knothead]

Has anyone mentioned that you should
CALL YOUR CREDIT CARD COMPANY AND DISPUTE THE CHARGES?

:P

I think we should all hit their feedback form and let them know that the Internet's largest Chinese motorcycle forum is watching to see if they make things right.
Really, since so many people come here looking for info, I think a bad word (but only the truth!) about them here could really put a dent in their sales. Not to mention most of us are on other motorcycle forums as well and can spread the word around. I'm sick of rip off dealers and just feel like taking a stand.

[motohillbilly]

Hey most of the atvdiscounters stores are closed on Monday, jist like real bike dealers.

[katoranger]

Still disputing the charges will get them to expedite resolving the issue.

Also I went to two bike shops today that were open for business.

Bought a new visor and a set of moose racing ATV bend bars.

Allen

[theENIGMATIC]

Maybe they have the model you were looking for, and you need to exchange it, you should ask...
They didnt really do anything wrong, the pics of the bike you got were posted, I agree it has to be replaced because of the acid leakage and if they pay for shipping, and agree to send you a cool boy or whatever then no harm done, I would check into that, as for the EPA/DOT approved thing I guess it is, all these China bikes are off-road bikes and are exported as such..its up to local liscense authorities to regulate road usage, as far as I know anyways....good luck with this man, hope it works out!!!!

[Jim]

I think american Lifan drop shipped the wrong Bike.

The bike is from ATV Discounters, what does A.L. have to do with any of this?

American Lifan supplies bikes to ATV Discounters. It states right on the
tag "Imported by American Lifan".
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7089/sidedy7.jpg

Yeah but American Lifan did not drop ship this bike to the customer, ATV discounter did, they shipped him a GY2 instead of a GY5...

Also, I believe most of the lifans in the US say american lifan on it, Rabbit Scooters/ Galata do as far as I know, I think it has to do with the fact that A.L. is owned by Lifan in China...

Anyways what my point is, is that A.L. has nothing to do with this and ATV Discounters are the one screwing him.

[knothead]

Maybe they have the model you were looking for, and you need to exchange it, you should ask...
They didnt really do anything wrong, the pics of the bike you got were posted, I agree it has to be replaced because of the acid leakage and if they pay for shipping, and agree to send you a cool boy or whatever then no harm done, I would check into that, as for the EPA/DOT approved thing I guess it is, all these China bikes are off-road bikes and are exported as such..its up to local liscense authorities to regulate road usage, as far as I know anyways....good luck with this man, hope it works out!!!!

Nope. You're wrong on this one. The ad specifically says the bike is a 2008 GY-5, at best it's a 2006 GY-2. They can't just swap out models because they don't have the one advertised, there are trade laws on the books against that exact thing. There is NOTHING in the ad about a GY-2 and no statement that they reserve the right to substitute products based on availability. Not to mention, the GY-2 was several hundred dollars cheaper than the GY-5.

[PorterzCustomz]

wow... thanks for the overwhelming consistent responses and the great support! I will give them one more shot tomorrow and if they continue to dodge me and play games I will contact the credit card company.

[theENIGMATIC]

KNOTHEAD WROTE:
Nope. You're wrong on this one. The ad specifically says the bike is a 2008 GY-5, at best it's a 2006 GY-2.

I know dude but under that they posted pics of the bike they sent...which is for all anyone knows a 2008 GY-5...mainly Im just saying contact ebay I think you have 60 days to open a dispute......so do it just in case if you have not...
And Im not trying to be right about anything maybe they sent a 2006 GY-2, but prove it right, and if you can make sure they are not willing to send you the 2008 GY-5 before flippin the pancake, shi7 happens!!![/b]

[AZ200cc]

wow... thanks for the overwhelming consistent responses and the great support! I will give them one more shot tomorrow and if they continue to dodge me and play games I will contact the credit card company.

That's the way this site is....That's why I stuck around even after I sold my bike, There are a lot of really good people here.

[mrhyak]

Yeah but American Lifan did not drop ship this bike to the customer, ATV discounter did, they shipped him a GY2 instead of a GY5...

Also, I believe most of the lifans in the US say american lifan on it, Rabbit Scooters/ Galata do as far as I know, I think it has to do with the fact that A.L. is owned by Lifan in China...

Anyways what my point is, is that A.L. has nothing to do with this and ATV Discounters are the one screwing him.

The only bikes that will say "Imported by AL" are those that are actually
imported by the AL company. Hooper's bikes say "Imported by Hooper
Imports". Any bike that says Imported by American Lifan means the
bikes came through the AL doors and are identical to what AL was selling
themselves. My assumption is that AL no longer wanted to sell GY-2's so
they sold them off and ATV Discounter is now selling them (as their name
states =Discounter= so don't expect service after the sale).


If AL sells bikes to ATV Discounter then ATV-D does things that make AL
look bad then I would think AL might have some say in what is going on
and might be able to help. I do find it odd that a couple months ago AL
put out that letter saying how only AL sells real Lifans.....blah blah blah
then we find out they sold bikes to ATV Discounters who sells them on
ebay. AL, good job!

[motohillbilly]

Im amazed at how many people buy that ALifan BS! Its ALL the same chinese stuff. Do you think Lifan in China gives a rip who sales thier bikes and weahter or not they get shipped? No they dont because they got thier cash. They bike in question here isnt a bad bike. It just insnt what he wanted, or paid for. I bought The gy2 on purpose because I didnt want a useless counterbalance shaft eating up horsepower. If you want a balanced engine balance the crankshaft. OOPS got off track there wrong thread. Any how way down at the bottom of ATVDISCOUNTER.COM there is a line that speaks of customer satisfaction. Maybe they will make it right. If not so be it. Its a great bike. And if its the color Send me the plastics and Ill send you my red and black ones. I like the blue.
[/u][/b]

[TeamCheap]

Plain and simple :
He didnt get what he ordered and they have a deceptive add.

ATV-deceivers just need to make it right.

Our bikes are NON-counter balanced and are just fine after properly securing the engines.
I'd still like to compare ours to a counter balanced engine just to see but even so our bikes are fun to ride and we have blast on them.

[theENIGMATIC]

I agree Im not sure the exact difference between the GY-5 or GY2 maybe plastics and seat height........but Im not sure any of these dealers really know what they are doing, they are after all not the OEM, My bike has a bunch of names...Chongqing Huansong GY200, Tomoto 200, Viva VX200SX......the plastics/stickers on you bike say G20-2 I have yet to see that.Ive even seen LF GY-2 and SG GY-2 same bike though??
Basically its a coin toss with these things especially on ebay....my advice cut them a bit of slack....if you really dont want the bike Im sure they will refund you and take that bike back, I mean it could be worse they could have sent nothing....Im on your side bro and good luck but I dont think they did anything on purpose, they are prob just a bit stupid!!! :D

[motohillbilly]

I have ridden both, I dont think that the balanced motor and rear drum are worth 500 bucks more. I got my nike throught this ATVDiscounter ( walked in and picked it out not mail order) and I paid $1060.49 including ttl. The 08 gy5 that I rode wasnt as strong as my gy2. Ride was about the same though. Brakes were better until I made mine right ( removed gold paper weight and dot5 fluid.

[ambassador]

Porterz,
Call everyone, CC company 1st, stop payment you didn't get what you ordered period, cancel the transaction.You have protection under either the visa or mastercard (whichever you used) symbol. They will usually fight it out for you. In most cases they give you your money back and then go after them. If you want to go further and fight for the next guy this happens to...Call the District Attorney in Texas and in your state and find out what legal ramifications you have against false advertising (make sure you write all this info down, this is a civil suit and ATV-Dis. knows it and may take months to rectify, good to be informed though). 3rd call the shipping company and file a claim with them explaining there was shipping damage to the product after uncrated. Again, these are great things to do but your best bet is to call the credit card company you used to purchace the bike. Legally they give you protection against situations just like this..Be persistant...A

[Jim]

I agree Im not sure the exact difference between the GY-5 or GY2 maybe plastics and seat height........but Im not sure any of these dealers really know what they are doing, they are after all not the OEM, My bike has a bunch of names...Chongqing Huansong GY200, Tomoto 200, Viva VX200SX......the plastics/stickers on you bike say G20-2 I have yet to see that.Ive even seen LF GY-2 and SG GY-2 same bike though??
Basically its a coin toss with these things especially on ebay....my advice cut them a bit of slack....if you really dont want the bike Im sure they will refund you and take that bike back, I mean it could be worse they could have sent nothing....Im on your side bro and good luck but I dont think they did anything on purpose, they are prob just a bit stupid!!! :D

The difference between a gy 2 and a gy 5 is that a gy 5 is what was pictured in the ad, and a gy 2 is what was shipped, there is no mistaking that. It isn't just a naming scheme, they are not the same bike.

Also, motohillbilly, I think you were maybe talking to me... I never said the bike was different from what A.L. has or had, I said that A.L. has nothing to do with screwing over the customer, ATV discounters is the one doing it, I highly doubt A.L. even knows Portez has gotten a bike or who he is.

I agree with the others I would NOT cut them slack, they need to get you a GY5, however the ad does state a non balanced engine so I wouldn't hold my breath for that.


EDIT:

I would also do what Ambassador has suggested, and don't forget to report it to ebay too that they are send out different bike then the ad is for.

[PorterzCustomz]

**** I called today MANY times at different times during the day, all different numbers, a few different departments and they now have all their phones set up to go directly to voice mail except the main sales person if you want to buy a bike but the sales person claims he has nothing to do with it and he cannot help me and I would have to call the other numbers that do not pickup. The shocking thing is when he picked up he asked me to hold and I overherd him on the other phone sales line #2 asking a customer "well what bike did get" and then telling them they "need to call shipping" he "cannot help at this number" unless they want to buy another bike... Same thing they told me!!!!

25 Negative feedback points and 31 claims at the BBB gets you this..

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6520/ebhq7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)



ATV Deceivers, call today if you like taking it in the can..

817 717 7012 Shipping Main
817 717 7014 Shipping Manager "Trisha"
940 769 2177 Billing
817 717 7012 Sales 1 *
817 717-7001 Sales 2 * The only 2 that will pick up ****

[PorterzCustomz]

**** I will be calling Visa and also trying to file a complaint with ebay.. If I leave neg feedback now they will retaliate like they do with every customer to punish the whistle blower for being naughty and to send the message that the customers should take it and keep their mouths shut and to deter people like myself

EDIT* Just called my credit card company they told me that ATV Deceivers already collected the money. They told me they will try and "file a dispute" and it will take up to ---> 4 M O N T H S <--- yes 4 months..

There is no way I am going to just let it sit here for 4 months without having a bike. I bought the bike for a form of transportation for this spring and summer. I do not have money to buy another one in the mean time. Should I just ride this one untill they figure something out? After all its their fault for this mess. I am thinking about just biting the bullet and using this one for the time being untill they can take action down the road. What do you think I should do? ****

[srreynolds2003]

I saw this number on the website...817.717.7013

I would also try several different extensions for the 70.. number
ie.
7014
7015
7016
7017

And see if you get someone's personal desk...if so...then harrase them.

[kczukiman]

Don't be afraid to leave neg feedback.And in it state that you are fileing a complaint.And also type FRAUD in it.I know you don't have much room so be crafty and get your point across.

[PorterzCustomz]

Don't be afraid to leave neg feedback.And in it state that you are fileing a complaint.And also type FRAUD in it.I know you don't have much room so be crafty and get your point across.

I have all positive feedback I cant afford a negative strike from them and thats exactly what they will do, thats what they did to all the other guys that did. I talked to ebay about it and they said soon they are changing the policy so that sellers cannot retaliate and leave neg feedback on buyers.

Did I mention that they filed a non payment dispute against me a few days after I won the bike and after I already paid them!! They are unreal!

[culcune]

Personally, I would wait to file a negative rating--wait till after the credit card avenue goes dry (only if it does) Like people have been saying--they sent you the wrong bike vs. what is pictured in the ad on ebay, and you filing a negative will make them retaliate--I would file a negative with the BBB of their area or state (was it the Texas office?) because it's more difficult to retaliate.

The ad clearly states DB-03 which is their code name for the GY-5 (they show both together (the GY-5 and DB-03) You got baited and switched either accidentally or intentionally.

[kczukiman]

Don't be afraid to leave neg feedback.And in it state that you are fileing a complaint.And also type FRAUD in it.I know you don't have much room so be crafty and get your point across.

I have all positive feedback I cant afford a negative strike from them and thats exactly what they will do, thats what they did to all the other guys that did. I talked to ebay about it and they said soon they are changing the policy so that sellers cannot retaliate and leave neg feedback on buyers.

Exactly my point if you have all possitive feedback and one neg from a fraudulant seller,people will notice what happend.Also when you file a compaint with ebay note that the seller retaliated with a neg feedback to you.They should withdraw his feedback.

[theENIGMATIC]

Man...contact them ask them if they can replace the bike with the GY-5....if they say no...leave neg feedback file a dispute with ebay and get the bike you have going...and or sell it if you really dont like it...you still got a wicked bike, these China bikes seem to be like snowflakes--no two are exactly the same,you gotta kind of cross your fingers and hope for the best...
Hey in Canada I imported a Viva VX200SX priced at $990 USD, after all the fees and red tape bullshi7 the bike will cost about $3000 Canadian and Im not sure I will be able to register it for street use because its an import....Im not even sure I will be allowed to keep the bike, if it fails inspection it has to be sent back........I wouldnt feel to bad as far as riding China bikes you got it made in the U.S.
Good Luck!!!!!

[TeamCheap]

I wouldnt even think of leaving a negative feedback this early.

If they make it right then they dont deserve a negative.
If they jack you around wait untill the time limit for leaving feedback is almost up then dump on them and hope they dont have enough time to respond.(Hmmm I wonder if ebay has changed that also)

[kczukiman]

This is Tuesday.This all started On Friday.You should have had an answer by now.Look at the pattern.Stahl and maybe he will go away.
Try using another phone that doesn't have you Name attached to it.I bet you get thru then.

[mrhyak]

Not sure if anyone has posted this information yet, but here is the domain regsiter info:

Registrant:
Career Life Strategies
3209 Arcadia Drive
Arlington, tx 76017
US

Domain name: ATVDISCOUNTER.COM

Administrative Contact:
Barling, Nathan nathan.barling@atvdiscounter.net
PO Box 191
Santo, Texas 76472
US
817-717-7013

[srreynolds2003]

How about everyone here send ATV discounters an email telling them We are Going to boycot them and tell our friends... if they don't help this fellow out..I mean we do have over 900 members here, I bet if they recieved half the emails....something would get done...

sales@atvdiscounter.net

[TeamCheap]

We can all put "We're all watching you" as the subject to the email. :lol: :lol:

Let them see a flooded email box with hundreds of those.

[kczukiman]

[quote="TeamCheap"]We can all put "We're all watching you" as the subject to the email. :lol: :lol:

Let them see a flooded email box with hundreds of those.

Say When :!:

[knothead]

This stuff seems to have been going on for a while.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/214/ripoff0214604.htm

[TeamCheap]

OK someone put together an email that we can all send.
You know, something like :

Email subject: We're all watching you

It has come to the attention of the china bike community that you may have some questionable business practices or maybe it was just a mistake and we'd like to give you a chance to make it right.
This is concerning order number _________ sold to _________on this date____

WE Thank you
WE, being the people that buy and promote the very type of products you sell and we also spread the word to a great number of readers about the bad dealers.


Ok thats just from the top of my head and I dont know if chinaraiders should be mentioned (I doubt it) but we'd have to nail down the exact customer that ATV-deceivers needs to set right.

All subject to porterz approval of course (he may want us to stay out of it -IDK)

[knothead]

I have all positive feedback I cant afford a negative strike from them and thats exactly what they will do, thats what they did to all the other guys that did. I talked to ebay about it and they said soon they are changing the policy so that sellers cannot retaliate and leave neg feedback on buyers.

Did I mention that they filed a non payment dispute against me a few days after I won the bike and after I already paid them!! They are unreal!

What makes you think you can't afford a negative feedback? It's only E-Bay, not like all the wimmins will suddenly find you ugly or anything.

I read through close to 60 pages of feedback for ATV discounters... you are not the first one they've done this to. They EXPECT you to cave in and not say a word about getting ripped off. They seem to have a habit of being the first to leave some negative remarks (Bad Ebayer!... Didn't pay! kinda crap) when they KNOW they have screwed the customer. Plus with the battery acid leaking out into the box, I bet you'll have a bunch of trouble with that bike. The acid is sulphuric acid, which makes sulphur dioxide gas, the gas would be able to get EVERYWHERE in the bike like inside the frame and crankcase corroding the metal, it also attacks rubber, so you would also have things like fork and engine seals as well as the seals in the brake calipers. If you keep that bike, I bet you'll regret it before the summer is over.

[Jim]

WE HAVE COMPLETED OVER 10,000 TRANSACTIONS ON THE INTERNET AND OUR POSITIVE FEEDBACK RATING IS 99.5% ON EBAY SO YOU CAN SEE THAT WE DO IN FACT TAKE CARE OF OUR CUSTOMERS.

This is why you need to provide them with the negative feedback they deserve.... Although I agree with TeamCheap's stealthy method.

[TeamCheap]

I feel a certain amount of diplomacy is needed to allow them an out that is good for all concerned but if that fails then NAIL THEM HARD.

It just comes down to them making it right.They may have made a mistake but I'm not buying that but they can still do the right thing.

If nothing else, hundreds of emails would let them know that there are people watching what they do and with just a little bit of business tweaking they could be on the "GOOD" list and everyone wins.

Sitting here thinking about it I realize if people set there minds to it a group of people could weed out a lot of the bad dealers and we'd be left with a higher number of good dealers.
After all, we as consumers just want the products we thought we had ordered and at a fair price and in new condition when an item IS new.

[PorterzCustomz]

This stuff seems to have been going on for a while.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/214/ripoff0214604.htm


OMFG!!!

WOW!!! What a story!!

[TeamCheap]

Sounds like they do/did a bit to much partying there at ATV-deceivers.

Actually it sounds like a home grown business that is just not gonna make it without someone there getting serious.


ATV-deceivers = I'm not misspelling it, I'm just spelling it the way it appears to me.

[theENIGMATIC]

To some degree you have to take the nature of the item you ordered into consideration...its a China bike, not totally assembled to begin with and needs to be tweeked and modified for sure, this is almost always the case with a China bike...so in purchasing one you set your self up for this like it or not...As for the year of the bike I think the 10th digit tells of the year so 8 would be 2008...plus a Chongqing Lifan industrial GY-5 can have many different looks, also we all have prob ebayed before and I know from my experience you usually only get a solid deal-- never any miracle deal with a super wicked item and super cheap cost...Ive even been ripped off clean on ebay having never recieved the item or refund.....Not to discourage you bro I know its sounds like Im defending this dealer, Im not, lets face it all China bike dealers are shady...hopefully they open a decent Lifan or Shineray manufacturing plant in the U.S. within the next few years-- :twisted: until then its prob business as usual!

[Jim]

theENIGMATIC, that is not a GY5 he got it, there is no way to argue that it is, it is very very very clearly a gy2...

The nature of the item he ordered seems irrelevant, since he didn't get the item he ordered.

Not all china bike dealers are shady either. And why would they open a manufacturing plant in north america?

[bronevaya]

theENIGMATIC, that is not a GY5 he got it, there is no way to argue that it is, it is very very very clearly a gy2...

The nature of the item he ordered seems irrelevant, since he didn't get the item he ordered.

Not all china bike dealers are shady either. And why would they open a manufacturing plant in north america?

if I were them I would open one in mexico (where labour can be had for cheap) and take advantage of nafta :lol:

they would make a killing

[theENIGMATIC]

Thanks for letting me know that its not a GY-5 Jim, but I really dont care.....I was just sayin' the year of the bike model can be found in the Vin#.so maybe check it before jumping to conclusions that its a 2006 gy-2, whatever that means???
Im not going to disagree I didnt sell him the bike...sure not all China bike dealers are shady.only ATV Discount right.......
And your right , why manufacture a Lifan bike in North America..I mean thats just plain stupid!!! 8)

[ambassador]

Screw feedback, Get on VISA, no way it should take 4 months, debt/ credit you need to get on the phone with one of the reps there and get it resolved if the person your dealing with tells you any less than you want to hear, ask fo their boss and go up the ladder from there, should take NO longer than a week if that...

[kczukiman]

I had a dispute 3 months ago.I filed it with visa it took a litle less then two weeks and I was reimubersed.But it was at my cost to send the product back.

[mrhyak]

IMO the difference between the GY5 and GY2 is minor and seems more cosmetic then anything else. I know there are some minor frame differnces where the GY2 is like an inch shorter in the seat, but an inch higher in clearance.
You are lucky that you even recieved a bike from what it sounds like and maybe might think of just calling it good and chalking this up to a lesson learned. A new battery isn't much if that is all you find wrong.....

I doubt they have any GY5 bikes, so trying to switch might be pointless. Good luck with whatever you decided.

[Jim]

Thanks for letting me know that its not a GY-5 Jim, but I really dont care.....I was just sayin' the year of the bike model can be found in the Vin#.so maybe check it before jumping to conclusions that its a 2006 gy-2, whatever that means???
Im not going to disagree I didnt sell him the bike...


No you were saying that the year can be found in the vin, AND that the bike could be a gy 5 or 2 and they can be called whatever they want... It is important to note that it IS in fact a gy2 and not a 5, because that is where the wrong doing took place, they sent the wrong product. I don't think the year really is as important, because it doesn't change that the ad stated it is a gy5 with a non counter balanced engine. I guess he can check the vin for the year number, but the tags on it should say the mfg date too, however as long as the bike is new I don't know what difference that makes, and either way it really doesn't matter because it is the wrong bike.

sure not all China bike dealers are shady.only ATV Discount right.......

Yeah, I can get the sarcasm here... but no you are wrong, they aren't all shady. I don't think the consumer should accept shady business practices from sellers simply because it is a chinese bike, do you? Bruce at EJ Cycles and Tom at RPM are not shady, neither is Coast to Coast Motorsports where I bought 2 bikes, and 3 other people I know got bikes. You haven't dealt with every dealer have you? So why do you insinuate they are all shady? It kind of seems like you are defending ATV discounters ripping off portez, and getting mad at me for simply stating that they sent the wrong product, plain and simple...

And your right , why manufacture a Lifan bike in North America..I mean thats just plain stupid!!! 8)

Do you honestly think that a Lifan made in the USA would have as low of production costs? There is no way the same bike would be made in the USA for the same price... And people aren't willing to pay higher to get a bike that isn't one of the big 4, people hardly like the prices from A.L. which is why they buy from online sellers who may or may not have shady business practices...


About the gy2, mostly I agree it is cosmetic differences, but it is also the fuel tank size. The gy2 has a smaller fuel tank. I don't know that it really matters though, because ATV discounters did not give Portez the bike he paid for, they gave him a different bike. I think that is mostly what it comes down too.. That and they don't seem to be willing to help.


This is a GY5
http://www.lifan.com/en/product_list.asp?parentid=8329&id=862

and this is a GY2
http://www.lifan.com/en/product_list.asp?parentid=8331&id=862

[iMoose]

If that VIN does have an 8 in the tenth place from the left, then you need to contact federal authorities. The EPA sticker has '06 on it. If that is in fact the case, then they are "making-up" VIN numbers and would be shut down immediately by the Feds. It's just like printing up money. And if they are unable to remedy this situation, then they have to either be the lowest of the low, or a kind of extreme stooooopid. Maybe they are just about to switch names again. And prey upon the hopes and dreams of the less fortunate so they can probably ride their asses around in BMW's. The well-off aren't looking for low cost motorcycles. Their target is those that are unable to afford mainstream dealers. It's clear that ATVDiscouters do NOT care about customers OR repeat business. If they in fact did, then they wouldn't have sent you that wrong bike in the first place. People keep trying to skip over or rationalize that FACT away. How rampant the lack of concern for business they must have. From phone sales, thru the shipping department, straight up to the top. Amazing.

[mrhyak]

Here are the main differences side-by-side.

Motorcycle model: LF200GY-5
Dimension ((L×B×H mm):2200*860*1220
Wheel base (mm):1380
Min.Ground Clearance (mm):200
Dry Weight:120kg
Height Of Seat (mm): 870
Fuel Tank Capacity(L): 10.5

Motorcycle model:LF125GY-3A/LF150GY-3A/LF200GY-2
Dimension ((L×B×H mm):2245*830*1190
Wheel base (mm):1360
Min.Ground Clearance (mm):250
Dry Weight:118kg
Height Of Seat (mm): 830
Fuel Tank Capacity(L): 7

[red2003]

Let's get back to the mass e-mail idea. I like it alot. Porterz, just give us the OK. Count me in. I have three different e-mail addresses, so there is three to begin with. These guys screwed you bad. No ifs, ands, or buts. The GY-2 is NOT a GY-5. They are several hundred dollars cheaper for starters. At the very least ATVrip-off's oughtta refund him the difference in price. He PAID for a GY-5 and got a GY-2. Anyone sympathizing with these fraudulant bastards is either really ignorant, or working for them and trying to save face here.

[PorterzCustomz]

theENIGMATIC, that is not a GY5 he got it, there is no way to argue that it is, it is very very very clearly a gy2...

The nature of the item he ordered seems irrelevant, since he didn't get the item he ordered.

Not all china bike dealers are shady either. And why would they open a manufacturing plant in north america?

The 10th digit is a 6....

Its a GY-2 2006 plain and simple there is no excuse.

[PorterzCustomz]

Let's get back to the mass e-mail idea. I like it alot. Porterz, just give us the OK. Count me in. I have three different e-mail addresses, so there is three to begin with. These guys screwed you bad. No ifs, ands, or buts. The GY-2 is NOT a GY-5. They are several hundred dollars cheaper for starters. At the very least ATVrip-off's oughtta refund him the difference in price. He PAID for a GY-5 and got a GY-2. Anyone sympathizing with these fraudulant bastards is either really ignorant, or working for them and trying to save face here.

Exactly, I want the correct bike or 4-500 back. The way I see it is they would spend at LEAST 600 in shipping this bike back and the new one out so im doing them the favor. You know whats funny about it is when I was going to get the bike I asked them if perhaps they have leftover 06 or 07 models that they could get me for a lower price and they said no, only 2008's! So I put in the extra money for my 08!!

Mass email sounds like a great idea!! If they get enough of them on a consistent basis it might annoy them enough like how im annoyed at a GY 2 instead of a 08. I am also worried about getting the title for the bike as they said they would mail it but know whos given their business ethic. I also herd that they dont even look at emails anymore? Just like they dont pick up the phone unless your calling the buy a bike number!

-Eric

[PorterzCustomz]

In the email we should also include the link to the rip off report and the 31 BBB complaints so they know we are really onto them and we can spread the word.

"They called me back, left their number, and then turned their phones off!"

"My daughter's birthday party will be a bummer, because in the end I discovered that they did ship my 4-wheeler, a day late, to Wisconsin! I live in Louisiana."

"Sheri says 'well print out a picture of it, and giver her that.'

"Thank you Sheri, the smartest damn thing you've said all day. "

"Sherri, don't give tracking numbers out when they clearly show that you sent people's stuff to the wrong friggin state. "

[kczukiman]

You know after thinking about it,I really don't think they care.They are going to rip people off as long as they can,pocket the money and fold the business when it when the money quits comming in.Right now he is becomming a rich man at the expense of others with no consiants.
And yes there is no doubt they are aware of this site and it matters not to them.The only thing they understand is money money money and an ocasional law suit or threat of legal action.We can talk until we are blue in the face .you know the history of this company nothings changed,you know your options and yes I'll say it for a final time.
1.Contact the BBB in Tx.
2.File a dispute with Visa
3.File a dispute with ebay
4.Leave an Negitive on ebay maybe it will help someone else more then you worrieing about a retaliation neg.feedback
5.Contact the Attorny Generals office in your state.
Thats your options take it or leave it.Otherwise put your bike together and ride or sell it.

[bronevaya]

you guys do know the BBB cant really do shit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Business_Bureau#Criticisms

your best bet is:

your credit card company
pay pal
your local police
their local police
your attorney general

these are the people who can really really help you and get something done

[PorterzCustomz]

yes I know it is, thats why there is 31 complaints because the first few were never set right so they just kept going. Did not use paypal so I cannot collect via paypal.

I have decided to ride the bike in the meantime and keep fighting for the cash back I deserve because I know they would never pay the 600+ in shipping to get the correct bike. I am also very worried about my title coming.. Thanks to all that have helped me I will keep up the fight for money back but I am going to put it together, test it out and see where I stand. Who knows what other issues I may face after I test out the bike.




you guys do know the BBB cant really do sh--

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Business_Bureau#Criticisms

your best bet is:

your credit card company
pay pal
your local police
their local police
your attorney general

these are the people who can really really help you and get something done

[theENIGMATIC]

Hey Jim, look I see where you are coming from, I personally dont know much about Lifan bikes so I can not see the diff, my point is I have seen numerous dealers mistake these kind of bikes....the only way to know for sure what kind of bike you get is to contact the OEM..They didnt make this mistake on purpose because they posted pics of the GY-2 on the auction even-though its not-- prove it to ebay!!!
damage to the battery is a shipping claim....because there is no way they let it leave the warehouse like that......so you should file one of those too Porterz....

Im glad you had a good experience with those shady dealers Jim...it just so happens I had a good experience with a dealership others find shady......

My point exactly...if a higher cost paid for this bike because it was manufactured in the U.S. SAVES YOU bullshi7 like the stuff porterz is going through good.if not...tuff it up......nuff said!!! :lol:

[Jim]

Have you seen the prices of "American" bikes? These are chinese bikes and have a market due to the cost. If you want an american bike you will pay for it.

Anyways the dealers I mentioned are not shady and I doubt Bruce or Tom or Coast to Coast, or any other non shady dealer would appreciate your unfounded claims? These claims about atv discounters however are not unfounded, why is it you are defending them when they clearly decieve lie and mistreat customers? Did you look at the BBB page, or read any of the stories about them?

And the truth is that atv discounters posted pictures of a GY5 on the ad, they hid the pictures of the gy2 on a page they linked too... If they can't tell the difference between 2 of their own products what business do they have selling them?

the only way to know for sure what kind of bike you get is to contact the OEM..

That is not true. For SURE he got a gy2, for SURE he ordered and paid for a GY5.

They didnt make this mistake on purpose because they posted pics of the GY-2 on the auction even-though its not

How do you know they didn't? They DIDN'T post pictures of a GY2 ON THE AD, they hid them on a link. However the ad clearly stated it was a gy5. It also showed pictures of a gy5. If they weren't intending to do it why would they hide the pictures on a linked page? Again, they probably know the product they're selling. And even if the case was that it was a mistake that they didn't make on purpose, why are they not resolving the issue by sending out the proper product, instead of dodging his calls and ignoring him?

damage to the battery is a shipping claim....because there is no way they let it leave the warehouse like that..
Is this the same way that they wouldn't let the wrong product leave the warehouse?


The 10th digit is a 6....

Its a GY-2 2006 plain and simple there is no excuse.

Exactly.


Anyone sympathizing with these fraudulant bastards is either really ignorant, or working for them and trying to save face here.

I agree with this too.

[theENIGMATIC]

I see with the VIN pretty much verifies that you got a gy-2.....well the dealer should work it out with you and yes they should send you a gy-5 at their expense.........keep calling them and dropping emails I cant see them not responding......you have only 60 days I think with ebay to file a dispute so do it if the dealer is screwing you around otherwise you could end up in a deeper hole dude...I made that mistake with ebay before...ATV Discount should take feedback seriously on such an expensive item....other potential buyers will see it.......
good luck to you man!

[kczukiman]

theENIGMATIC,It almost seems that you an apoligist for this dealer?
Members have posted the differences between the two bikes,The tactics of this company have been shown and again dealers don't make bikes manufactures do.To say that it an honest mistake or their confused themselves?

[theENIGMATIC]

........if we want to jump to conclusions about people and dealers based on mistakes then everyone is a fraud.....porterz keep us posted on what ATV Discount does for you in the future as you work it out.....you never know, maybe they will right their wrong....maybe not, too soon to tell I think.....
Even if I did like this dealer who are you or anyone to tell me not too..I like the bike Port got..I would have been happy with it myself......maybe this is the diff between me and you.......maybe we should all just buy a Lifan GY-5 from Mr.Rogers and friends .....besides Im not hiking to Candy Land :wink: any time soon to buy a Lifan so those guys are out of the question....
Lets skip the bull and agree to disagree....in fact why dont I send ATV Discount a nasty message telling them that Im watching them and Im going to eat their children and then spit them back up and feed them to Lucifer...lol......look Im on Porterz side but you have to kinda work these things out slowly without killing anyone in the process. besides too much negativity towards dealers is bad for China bike moral.and thats not cool.....

[Jim]

I'm not trying to argue, I was just trying to get my point across... And I like the GY2 as well, but if he wanted a gy2 he probably would have bought that instead of a GY5, and the GY2 was always at least a few hundred dollars less then the GY5.

I wasn't trying to tell you that you can't like the dealer, but it seemed that you were trying to argue that the bike could in fact be what he ordered, and it is not.

I agree that he needs to try and work it out with them, but it seems as if they aren't interested. And they have a record to prove it with the BBB and other places.

Ultimately, it would be best if they worked this out for Portez and were more careful with what the ship in the future, making sure they send the right product.

[olds_cool]

What's the outcome, dude? Any word about ATVD taking care of you? Did you call your credit card company again?

[theENIGMATIC]

I agree Jim, but the damage is done..Porterz purchased the bike...I was not aware of the diff between a GY-2 and GY-5 before.you learn something new everyday....obviously ATV Discount does not know either......maybe instead of chewing their heads of and pissing down their neck holes....we should kindly inform them (kindly) that they are Stupid fuc#%n idiots.....and then mabey they will take it seriously....dunno just tryin to help out!

[bronevaya]

if your going to keep it then give it a good wash, maybe with a pressure washer to get the acid off of it that you might not see, or it will eat at the bike.

at the same time, if you keep it, they might make a case against you saying that you are raising a fuss about nothing since your willing to ride around in it.

just be careful

[PorterzCustomz]

******* UPDATE!!!!! UPDATE!! UPDATE!! *******

Late this afternoon I filed a complaint with Ebay and then sent another email that you can read here.. Within about 15-20 minutes of filing the complaint with ebay and sending this email I actually got a email response!! 8O

************************************************** ***********
ME-

" This is my third attempt to contact you via email. I have also left many phone messages and I don't appreciate what has been done to avoid me and I will take the appropriate steps if you continue to ignore the situation. I am aware of 31 complaints against you from the BBB and you also have a full write up in the rip off report online by other consumers. I am not the only one you have done this to. Sending me a 2006 G2 Lifan instead of a 2008 G5 like stated in your auction is FRAUD and will be delt with. I do not take lightly to being ripped off of hundreds of dollars of my hard earned money for a bike of lesser value. I will not forget about this and I have been very lenient on giving you enough time to respond and redeem yourself. I am a member of a Lifan bike fourm that brings together nearly 10 thousand people across the US. I have documented the incident with pictures and the community has been warned of your antics and your current business ethic. I will begin to take legal action if this is not resolved in the next few days.

Eric (860) 228 - XXXX

15-20 minutes later...

************************************************** ***********
ATV Deceivers -

Eric We have already started the process to have the bike picked up and a
new one sent out. You are correct it is the wrong bike. I am sorry it took a
few more days to get it taken care due to me being out of the office until
today. Yes we may have 31 complaints against us with the BBB due to the factwe sell to over a million consumers. I would say 31 to a million isn't too
bad. As I am sure you know not everyone can be made happy all the time but we do strive to do our best. And then of course you always happy a few crazypeople because the person on the rip off report put that on there after I refused to send him out a new unit because the freight company made a mistake and was having to redirect the unit and after he used the F word with me I refused to send him the bike at all had it redirected back to me and refunded his money completely which he was not happy about as I am sure you can further read his complaint and can tell he was a complete wacko. Again I am sorry it took a little longer than expected to correct our error but we are already working on it. I have given the shipping dept. the OK to pick up the unit.

************************************************** ***********
ME-

Hi, they can pick up the GY2 bike the same time they drop off the GY5 bike.
There is no way I can let this go back and just hope for a new one to come. I do not feel comfortable letting this go back untill the other one is on the truck. Given the difficulty getting in touch with your company this is the only way I feel safe with the transaction.

Thank you
Eric
************************************************** ***********

ATV Deceivers-

Eric the process is we pick up the bike and send out a new one. They can not arrive at the same time due to trucking companies do not pick up and deliver at the same time.I am going to fix this for you. Like I said I was out of the office for the last two days so it did not go as fast as expected. I can not have two bikes out and only one paid for. I have no problem fixing a mistake that we made. I would have no reason to not send you a bike. I have already sent one out that was just old inventory and no one realized we still had any of them left. I couldn't be on ebay with over a 99% feedback rating if I didn't do what I said.
************************************************** ***********

ME-

I do not feel comfortable doing it this way given the circumstances. The new bike has to be on its way before I let this one go thats why I suggested that they can do a pickup and a drop off at the same time. If you speak with the shipping company I don't see why it can not be arranged this way. I have done nothing to loose your trust and I have everything to loose if I just let this one go back without having the other one on the truck. I have no reason not to send this one back to you if that's what your worried about but I have reason to worry after not being able to get in touch with your company when I had a problem. It is not just you but I could not get anyone to call me back or respond to my emails and im sure there are other people there beside yourself that could of responded since Friday or picked up the phone as I called "shipping" and "billing" and left numerous messages exc.

If you cannot set a pickup and drop off at the same time the only other way I would feel comfortable would be to make up the difference in price for the older model. I would not prefer this but if you cannot get a new bike out and arrange a pickup at the same time its the only solution I could agree to. Please let me know what way you can go on this and I hope we can reach an agreement but as far as shipping the bike back while your
holding my money its off the table. If there was not a communication issue I would have absolutely no problem at all sending it back and waiting for the new one but after what happened I cannot risk it and I am sure you can understand where I am coming from


Thanks
Eric
************************************************** ***********

TO BE CONTINUED....

[/b]

[SpeedSouth]

I considered a purchase from this dealer but a few things made me rather uncomfortable...one being those pictures of 2 different model bikes. I wasn't sure I could count on getting what I wanted, and now I see my hunch was correct.

I'm sorry you've had this bad experience. I don't have any major advice to offer, other than to repeat what others have already said about contacting the CC company, the shipping company and maybe check into your local laws to see if it might be worth the pursuit of further legal action by local authorities, or perhaps those in Texas.

One thing I would advise, however, is to NOT assemble the bike and begin to ride. As mentioned, this may constitute your willingness to accept the wrong product and leave you without any recourse. If you don't want to pay for the wrong bike, then leave it in the crate. Part of their tactic may very well be a waiting game....hoping you'll give in and accept what they sent. This is what they want, and are likely counting on this very thing.

I might even check with my CC company and discuss the potential to send it back at my own expense, so they can't claim you have the product and dispute your CC dispute. Personally, I'd rather lose a few hundred shipping it back, then settle for a product I didn't order and HOPE they refund a part of my payment to make up for model price differences.

And, if you can prove it was returned, the CC company will not waste any time in refunding your account. If you don't keep the product, they MUST refund your money.

Most of the time the cheapest purchase is made because there isn't any extra funds to work with, and therefore you might not have the funds to cover the cost of returning the product, which is why I say to discuss it with your CC company. They may be willing to extend your credit for the shipment or provide another solution.

In any event, I wish you all the best in getting this sorted as quickly and easily as possibe. Good luck!



And, for the record, I ended up talking with Brian at MotoXtreme.net. He answered my questions quickly and honestly. I ordered my GY-5 only a few days ago, so I don't have it yet, but I really like what I've experienced with him thus far. Very professional.

PS - This is my first post, so....Hello everyone! :D



Edit: Just read your last post. Glad you're getting some type of response at least. Maybe ask if you have any assurances that he won't be "out of the office" every day for the next month? I mean...that really has to be the worst excuse on the planet. Is he the only person capable of making a decision? And if so, why in the hell would he EVER leave his office? Maybe it's just me, but his answers sound more like excuses....and there is no such thing as a "good excuse".

[kczukiman]

Hi speedsouth welcome to the forum anf congrats on your new purchase

[kczukiman]

PorterzCustomz,The trucking company can p/u at the same time.They will just make you the last delivery befor they do their p/u.

[Jim]

I don't know that I would offer to keep the same bike, if it hadn't had battery acid leak all over it I don't think that solution would be too bad, but with the leak I'm pretty sure I'd want the proper bike.

Glad they got back to you, it looks like they might make this right.

I don't think they will take the old bike back and not give you, but I suppose it is possible...

Good luck with everything.

[Cal25]

I think that haveing the shipping company pick up the 2 when it delivers a 5 would be fair. Glad the dialog has gotten started.

[SpeedSouth]

Hi speedsouth welcome to the forum anf congrats on your new purchase

Thanks :)
It's been about 12 years since I last owned a bike, so the excitement level is pretty high.

[mrhyak]

No freak'n way that ATV-D has sold 1-million bikes......no way.

[kczukiman]

No freak'n way that ATV-D has sold 1-million bikes......no way.

That would be about 1000 a day for three years. 8O

[katoranger]

I could see a 100,000 bikes, but a million is not true.

The number of compliants is far too high.

Speedsouth. You won't be dissappointed with the service you get. The little extra cost will be worth it.

Allen

[Murdoc]

I am going thru the same thing see my thread.http://scootdawg.proboards59.com/index.cgi?board=talk&action=display&thread=1205613960&page=1

[srreynolds2003]

I agree with JIM you should not settle for a bike you did not want. you paid for a G5 you should get a G5. plus I would be waorried about the acid damage too.

[PorterzCustomz]

I spoke to Sherri on the phone this morning after a back and fourth email discussion last nite and she said that she will pick it up tomorrow at 4 and that when the bike is picked up ON THE TRUCK she will then refund the money instantly. I hope I don't get screwed again.. She said her email must have been broken before and her phone did not get any messages... Thats a different story from being out until wed like she said was the reason before.

Where do you guys recommend ordering from? I was thinking of here..

http://www.motoxtreme.net/994.html :idea:

[PorterzCustomz]

WOW they also threatened me about the ebay claim I made against them!!


"WE RESPONDED TO YOU THE DAY YOU CALLED US AND WE EMAILED OUR SHIPPING DEPARTMENT ( AND COPIED THE
EMAIL TO YOU) TO PICK UP THIS UNIT AND BRING YOU ANOTHER ONE. WE ARE THE NUMBER #1 ON THE INTERNET
AND WE DO NOT APPRECIATE YOU PUTTING UNTRUTHFUL STATEMENTS ABOUT US AND IF YOU CONTINUE THIS WE WILL
CONTACT OUR LEGAL DEPARTMENT. HUMAN ERRORS DO OCCUR IN SHIPPING SOMETIMES AS SOON AS WE WERE NOTIFIED
ABOUT THIS WE IMMEDIATELY RESPONDED."

They also told me that they get "alot of hate mail from other lifan dealers" because they do so well in sales and customer service!

[kczukiman]

WOW they also threatened me about the ebay claim I made against them!!


"WE RESPONDED TO YOU THE DAY YOU CALLED US AND WE EMAILED OUR SHIPPING DEPARTMENT ( AND COPIED THE
EMAIL TO YOU) TO PICK UP THIS UNIT AND BRING YOU ANOTHER ONE. WE ARE THE NUMBER #1 ON THE INTERNET
AND WE DO NOT APPRECIATE YOU PUTTING UNTRUTHFUL STATEMENTS ABOUT US AND IF YOU CONTINUE THIS WE WILL
CONTACT OUR LEGAL DEPARTMENT. HUMAN ERRORS DO OCCUR IN SHIPPING SOMETIMES AS SOON AS WE WERE NOTIFIED
ABOUT THIS WE IMMEDIATELY RESPONDED."

What a joke!These people are profesional CONS!One interesting thing I went thru the feedback pages for atv discounters and checked the feedback history of the people who left atv discounter a neg. feedback and the only negitive was from atv discounters.I see the pattern they use harsh and crude neg feed back caling people liers,scammers and compediters.I think ebay is aware of their practices but money rules...

[olds_cool]

Go to their shop and kick some freakin' butt, dude!

[Murdoc]

well I had the wrong scoot shipped to me. they seem willing to work it out. however i am going to get the good end of the deal or get my money back. :twisted:

[SpeedSouth]

A full refund sounds like the best possible solution at this point. Hope it goes well.



Call Brian at MotoXtreme.net. He will hook you up.


Good luck! 8)

[katoranger]

Sounds like you win.

I would not purchase a bike from them and if you get you money back you are only out the time.

Brian and motoxtreme.net is a legit person will many happy customers.

Allen

[theENIGMATIC]

I dont know about MotoXtreme...check it out they got the same crappy DOT/EPA flash logo thing Viva-motors has and alot of people on China riders dont like this company???


http://viva-motors.com/dirt-bike-200cc-enduro.html
:oops:


http://www.motoxtreme.net/994.html
:oops:

[Jim]

I don't know what state you are in, but if you're close by check out EJ Cycles, Bruce has a GY5 for 1299 I believe, assembled and ready to go... I believe it isn't counter balanced though.

No freak'n way that ATV-D has sold 1-million bikes......no way.

:lol: :lol: :lol: No kidding eh? They are very full of "it". I thought I read somewhere else they did 10,000... So now I don't believe any number they say, they seem to make a lot of stuff up.


Portez, about the ebay thing, I doubt they would actually do anything, they probably just put that there so other potential marks won't know how they operate... The trick though to making sure you aren't slandering them and therefor not liable for anything is to state thing as a matter of opinion rather then stating it is a fact, unless you can back it up, if it is a fact that you can back up that's ok too..

[katoranger]

I dont know about MotoXtreme...check it out they got the same crappy DOT/EPA flash logo thing Viva-motors has and alot of people on China riders dont like this company???


http://viva-motors.com/dirt-bike-200cc-enduro.html
:oops:


http://www.motoxtreme.net/994.html
:oops:

Brian at motoxtreme is a legit seller. He has an actual store in VA and many here have purchase from him with great reviews.

Viva doesn't have the best rep, but not the worst either.

Allen

[theENIGMATIC]

AND WHATS THIS ALL ABOUT......bottom of page...
http://www.motoxtreme.net/1099.html


was this not a thing against Viva-Motors......I dont get it, someone help me out here???? :twisted:

[katoranger]

If you are familiar with building web pages you can get the logo flash things downloaded from many places.

It doesn't mean anything.
Look I can have it too.

http://www.motoxtreme.net/mediac/400_0/media/epadot.gif

Allen

[theENIGMATIC]

Yeah but its a bit funny that they have it and so does Viva-Motors???
And whats with the Juancho statement at the bottom of that other page, related to Viva-motors......bit sketchy dont ya think??

[theENIGMATIC]

So did MotoX decide to boycott Viva and steal their advertising setup in the process, I dont get it??? :P

[kczukiman]

Can I do it?

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/kczukiman/epadot1.gif

[theENIGMATIC]

A-ight if you wanna risk buying from MotoX, thats yo biz, Im not buying it...what gives them the right to post on their site against Viva-motors......they sell the same kinda bikes, same kinda prices and even use the same fraggin Logo......ah well, whada I care!!!

[Jim]

He's an authorized american lifan dealer, not a viva dealer.... that page is warning about issues you could have buying with some other dealers... that's why the quote is there about someone who didn't do their homework before buying the bike...

You support ATVd with their numerous BBB claims, negative feedback, ripoff report, and more, and you don't support Brian because of a flashing dot/epa picture?

http://www.motoxtreme.net/mediac/400_0/media/epadot.gif

[theENIGMATIC]

Who's Brian???
I purchased a wicked bike from Viva.......so wheres the scam MotoX is talking about???

[Jim]

Brian owns MotoXtreme

And he also isn't the one who wrote that, he simply quoted someones experience with a different dealer...

http://www.motoxtreme.net/mediac/400_0/media/epadot.gifhttp://www.motoxtreme.net/mediac/400_0/media/epadot.gifhttp://www.motoxtreme.net/mediac/400_0/media/epadot.gifhttp://www.motoxtreme.net/mediac/400_0/media/epadot.gifhttp://www.motoxtreme.net/mediac/400_0/media/epadot.gifhttp://www.motoxtreme.net/mediac/400_0/media/epadot.gifhttp://www.motoxtreme.net/mediac/400_0/media/epadot.gif

[theENIGMATIC]

Well Ok then......all hail MotoXtreme Lords And Gods Of All China Bikes......Im still not buying from them though Im atheist. :twisted:

[Jim]

Well Ok then......all hail MotoXtreme Lords And Gods Of All China Bikes......Im still not buying from them though Im atheist. :twisted:

I didn't say he was lords and gods of all china bikes... You seem to take things to the extreme quite a bit don't you? If someone likes a dealer then they are lords and god in your sarcastic writing, and if someone thinks someone has been scammed then in your sarcastic interpretation we should "eat their children and then spit them back up and feed them to Lucifer"... And in your non sarcastic writing, you say that ALL china bike dealers are shady con artists...

I haven't ever dealt with Brian but I've only heard good things...


Anyways, Portez, how goes the struggle? Any update?

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/kczukiman/epadot1.gifhttp://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/kczukiman/epadot1.gifhttp://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/kczukiman/epadot1.gifhttp://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/kczukiman/epadot1.gifhttp://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/kczukiman/epadot1.gifhttp://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/kczukiman/epadot1.gifhttp://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/kczukiman/epadot1.gifhttp://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/kczukiman/epadot1.gifhttp://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/kczukiman/epadot1.gifhttp://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/kczukiman/epadot1.gifhttp://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/kczukiman/epadot1.gif

[theENIGMATIC]

Guess its just a matter of who you heard those thing from???ehh!!

[Jim]

I suppose ;)

And sorry about all the dot/epa pictures, I just like them ;)

[almonpoole]

Well Ok then......all hail MotoXtreme Lords And Gods Of All China Bikes......Im still not buying from them though Im atheist. :twisted:

Brian with motoxtreme is a good guy and he will take care of whoever buys from him.

[knothead]

A-ight if you wanna risk buying from MotoX, thats yo biz, Im not buying it...what gives them the right to post on their site against Viva-motors......they sell the same kinda bikes, same kinda prices and even use the same fraggin Logo......ah well, whada I care!!!

Why are you ragging on Brian? Obviously you don't know what you're talking about. Have you ever even spoke to the man? I know that you haven't or you wouldn't be spewing crap like you have been.
I bought my bike from Brian, he was patient and answered all my questions and always returned my calls. When there was a mixup getting my MSO from the Dallas home office, he got right on it and even paid out of his own pocket to overnight the papers to me.
If you don't have anything valid to add, maybe you should consider silence as a viable option instead of trying to damage the reputation of a good dealer.

[ambassador]

Enig,
Brian at Moto-X is not the same E-bay/ Motoextreme/whatever, do your homework and figure it out...Real Lifans, duh...

[katoranger]

Back to the correct topic.

Porterz, what is the current status.

Allen

[Jim]

He started a new thread, it is in dualsport currently but will probably be moved here...

He emailed them and said he wanted it in writing that they would refund his money when they pick up the bike, so they stopped replying to him again, and sent out the truck to get the bike a day early, but he didn't let them have it... Now they are not answering him currently.

[theENIGMATIC]

Im sure any signing would have had to be done with the shipping company because they are seperate from ATV Discount....what would stop them from taking the bike for themselves if nothing had to be signed??
I know its a bitch Porterz but buyers have obligations too...its a shame but Im glad you got a really cool bike man....keep on ridin'

[PorterzCustomz]

Well they finally came out and told me they would not do anything for me after telling me that the GY2 they sent me is "more expensive" then the GY5 and I should be giving THEM money back! What a laugh!!

I finally said F it as long as they agree to send me the title and bill of sale I will just keep it and I put it together.

[Jim]

Keep in mind our canadian prices are different, but I have a price list here

200 gy6 $1999
200 gy5 $1899
200 gy2 $1799

Those were "show prices" from a dealer, but the point is that a gy2 is cheaper, but oh well hopefully you can get the bike to a point your happy with... But that company is feeding you a lot of BS.

[olds_cool]

Well they finally came out and told me they would not do anything for me after telling me that the GY2 they sent me is "more expensive" then the GY5 and I should be giving THEM money back! What a laugh!!

I finally said F it as long as they agree to send me the title and bill of sale I will just keep it and I put it together.

You're kidding...right? You're gonna KEEP the WRONG bike???

After all you've been through and all the advice??? :roll:

[Jim]

Well I don't think he has much choice now, he didn't let the driver take it when he was there, and he's since assembled it and started riding it...

I would maybe suggest calling them on the blatant lie that the gy2 is worth more, and try and see if they would throw in some accessories like a helmet or something...

[PorterzCustomz]

I just got an email from a member on here that I need to share with all of you. He is going through a legal dispute with them right now so he wishes to remain anonymous as this is a popular thread. I have FW the email to frostbite and he can vouch for the legitimacy of the email wile keeping the members identity secret. He recently worked for them and he lives in the area. He writes:

From: XXXXXXXXX
To: PorterzCustomz
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:43 am
Subject: ATV Discounter Glen Barling

Quote message

Call the owner of ATV Discounter on his cell phone and tell him to stop cheating people out of the bike they want i use to work there and he has been doing the same thing he did to you to many others. The owner of american lifan gave him a smokin deal if he would buy all the gy-2's he had in stock so he did and then he bought 1 gy-5 and took pictures so people think they are getting the 5 and he sends them the 2. Here is his cell phone number xxx-xxx-xxxx and his wife (billing dept) xxx-xxx-xxxx

************************************************** *********

DON"T FALL FOR THE SCAM, DON'T BUY FROM THEM AND MAKE SURE TO WARN OTHERS NOT TO!! IT IS YOUR RESPONCEABILITY AS A MEMBER.

-Eric

[culcune]

edited out

[almonpoole]

If this dealer is an American Lifan dealer you should post this issue on the American Lifan forum under dealer complaints.

Maybe then they will offer some help or at least make sure this does not happen again.

http://www.americanlifan.com/lifan3/customer/

[Jim]

Hmmm, so American Lifan is in on it, too?

No they aren't, they simply sold their remaining lot of gy2's wholesale to these scammers, these scammers are the ones "in on it".

[culcune]

A. Lifan should really eliminate drop shipping, then! Or at least monitor who they allow to do so (i.e. Brain at Xtreme seems to have not slighted anyone, and about a dozen people posted ordering from him)

ATV Discounters should not be allowed to mail order any Lifan product from here on out, and should risk having their Lifan dealership privileges revoked altogether!

This seems to me to be far worse than the "unauthorized" mail order dealers mentioned in the official Lifan website.

[Jim]

A. Lifan should really eliminate drop shipping, then! Or at least monitor who they allow to do so (i.e. Brain at Xtreme seems to have not slighted anyone, and about a dozen people posted ordering from him)

ATV Discounters should not be allowed to mail order any Lifan product from here on out, and should risk having their Lifan dealership privileges revoked altogether!

This seems to me to be far worse than the "unauthorized" mail order dealers mentioned in the official Lifan website.

I don't think that this is different then the "unauthorized" mail order dealers, ATV Discounters isn't an american lifan dealer, they simply purchased old stock in bulk...

[mrhyak]

American Lifan sold ATV-D Lifan motorcycles to resell. AF is not stupid and they know what is going on. AF could have sold these bikes themselves so they are partially to blame for this whole mess.

IMO if AF knows about this misrepresentation of the bikes and says nothing to ATV-D then they are fools. It is the Lifan reputation that is on the line when they allow this sort of cr@p to occur and they were the original source of the problem by selling the bikes to scum.

[ambassador]

Do you think the Japanese went through all of this crap when they were trying to put out an XR whatever? What did we do before the internet.....

[mrhyak]

Do you think the Japanese went through all of this crap when they were trying to put out an XR whatever? What did we do before the internet.....

Before the internet? We used to talk trash on the CB radio, then when PC's starting hitting the homes in the late 1980's we had those cool BBS's to communicate through at 300 baud! When I got my first 1200 baud modem I thought I felt like my data transmission was 'screaming'.

[Jim]

Do you think the Japanese went through all of this crap when they were trying to put out an XR whatever? What did we do before the internet.....

Before the internet? We used to talk trash on the CB radio, then when PC's starting hitting the homes in the late 1980's we had those cool BBS's to communicate through.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

[ambassador]

Hyak,
Back then you didn't buy bikes on-line, neither did I.. I guess you answered my question but not really, how did the Japs market their bikes with b&m dealers and pull it off? Why can't the Chinese do the same?
I can only attribute it to American dealers being lazy and not following through on promises delivered as well as the Chinese/ AL/ Zongshen...
Should we keep buying products that may or may not be worthy depending on JUST a dealer when you may get a good deal on-line and NEVER have to deal with them again??
Sorry Hyak, hot harping on you, your not a dealer... Maybe if the dealers would unite better products would follow???

[kczukiman]

Does anyone know if Ohio laws say that you can't ship a bike in a crate?
I have seen this guy selling on ebay and he is in Ohio.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-200CC-STREET-LEGAL-UNDURO-2007-W-0-MILES-NO-RESERV_W0QQitemZ120243948451QQihZ002QQcategoryZ671 9QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[iMoose]

Low price but crazy $399 shipping. Found a scooter shop near my house that charges $1,500 for GY-2's though. He had four when I forst noticed, now only one. Said he's not getting the 250's until his 200's are all gone. Dang. I'd be willing to pay a little more if I could touch it before buying.

[katoranger]

Does anyone know if Ohio laws say that you can't ship a bike in a crate?
I have seen this guy selling on ebay and he is in Ohio.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-200CC-STREET-LEGAL-UNDURO-2007-W-0-MILES-NO-RESERV_W0QQitemZ120243948451QQihZ002QQcategoryZ671 9QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Bruce has spoken about that seller and he is illegally obtaining a title in OH first for the bike and then sending it to the buyer. Someone in Fl bought a bike from that seller and that was the method used. It is illegal for a dealer to sell an unprepped crated motorcycle off site in OH.

Allen

[kczukiman]

Does anyone know if Ohio laws say that you can't ship a bike in a crate?
I have seen this guy selling on ebay and he is in Ohio.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-200CC-STREET-LEGAL-UNDURO-2007-W-0-MILES-NO-RESERV_W0QQitemZ120243948451QQihZ002QQcategoryZ671 9QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

. It is illegal for a dealer to sell an unprepped crated motorcycle off site in OH.

Allen

Thats what I thought I read.

[katoranger]

Bruce is not allowed to drop ship bikes do to OH law. Since he is a legitamate dealer and cares to keep his license he follows the law.

That seller is probably not a license dealer and is registering in his name first and then sending a title to the buyer who has to transfer it to there name.

In a sense selling them a used vehicle.

Allen

[ATVDiscounter]

Anytime you work in a large volume industry there are always possibilities that errors will occur. We have sold over 30,000 units worldwide and we have had our share of growing pains. We attempt to handle any issue as promptly and professionally as possible.
This particular issue is an interesting case. The client notified us of our shipping mistake. We informed him of our shipping policy, and told him that once the freight truck driver confirmed pickup of the mistakenly shipped unit, we would send him the correct unit. He said that would be fine. We then scheduled the unit for pickup, but once the truck arrived he outright refused to put the bike on the truck.

I am not exactly sure of his motivation, but he was unwilling to work with us on fixing the issue. We explained to him that we once the freight company confirmed it was on the truck, we would expedite him his order. We offered monetary discounts, extended warranties and several other items because we acknowledged we had sent the wrong unit. All he had to do was allow the freight company to pick up the wrong unit and this would all have been fixed.

If you buy a defective item from a store, they are not going to give you your money back until you bring them the item. We were accepting full responsibility for the error and were trying to work with this customer on it, but he refused. We then offered a full refund of the purchase to him. He said he would not trust us to refund the money so he was just going to keep the unit.

There was no malice or ill intent on sending on the wrong Lifan. We had both in inventory and our procurement department sent the wrong unit. We tried countless times to fix the situation, but this particular client seemed unwilling to want to fix it.

I typically avoid posting on boards. We have fans of our company and we have people who don't like us. This can be said about every company in the world. I felt this particular issue needed to be addressed because I was involved personally with this client.

We stand by every purchase from our company and do our best to satisfy our clients. If you ever have any issues or questions about ATVDiscounter.com please feel free to contact me personally @ nathan.barling@atvdiscounter.com or 817.717.7013. I will gladly discuss anything about the company or personally assist in resolving any issues you have with a purchase.

[culcune]

After reading about how long it took you guys to respond to 'Brother Porterz' I was disappointed. It did seem like the classic bait and switch, sorry to say, and I still believe that did occur.

You guys did prove me on one thing--don't trust alot of what's on Ebay! I bought my jetmoto a couple of years ago, but directly from jetmoto.

That said, if I lived in any of the areas where your shop is, I would consider purchasing from you, in person, where I can see the product and touch it, and make a good deal then and there with you guys. It's just the internet I would not consider purchasing a product from you guys.

[kczukiman]

The only thing is this is not the only forum that has had the same issues with ATVD.With the same complaints and the same lack of response from you.And another question.Why would you show a Gy5 in your ebay auction then in a small area say click here for more photos and show a totaly different model?Are you a licensed Lifan dealer?
In you absence is there no one that can make a decision to replace a bike that was shipped wrong?Other common complaints are that phone calls arn't returned,or not answerd.Also it was put to a member that you sell over a million units.(That was you own writing).
I appreciate you coming on this forum to face the music and responding to these issuse.

[ATVDiscounter]

1. We not only offered to switch out the unit with the correct one, but we offered a discount on the price as well.

The unit that was shipped was a mistake by the shipping department. We are one of the largest online ATV dealers in North America and even then mistakes can happen. When mistakes happen, it is up to us as a company to try to fix them. We attempted to fix our it multiple times but we were unable to come to an agreement with this particular client.

I am not saying everything was handled perfectly with this particular issue, but we did attempt to fix the issue. I honestly wish and solution could have been found that worked for both of us, but in the end the client stated he wanted to keep the unit.

2. We are a licensed dealer for multiple manufacturers. We not only sell units online, but we have brick and mortar stores all throughout Texas.

3. The image links you are referring to is an obvious mistake by the person who handles the images. We have links on the site to let us know if there are errors on the site. I will make sure our development staff fixes the picture problem. If any other errors are found, please email me @ nathan.barling@atvdiscounter.net. We do our best to validate all the information on the site, but occasionally errors exist.

4. We have recently increased our customer service staff to assist with better answering our calls. We have also invested into getting a better business infrastructure in place to assist in providing quick and accurate information to our clients for their orders.

We are still looking for customer service agents in the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex so if anyone is interested please send me an email.

5. I am not sure who said we have sold a million units because that is completely inaccurate. We have sold about 30,000 units worldwide. We have had a few bumps in the road but our happy customers vastly outweigh the unhappy ones. Sadly, the nature of the internet makes an easy forum for people who are unhappy to quickly post about how bad their experience is. The happy customers tend to only give word of mouth.

A substantial piece of our business is repeat customers or customer referrals. We have been in busy for nearly 5 years and strive to please all of our customers. There will be cases when issues arise where that is next to impossible.

I encourage discussions like this because ATVDiscounter can only fix issues that we know exist. If you have any further questions or comments please don't hesitate to contact me @ any of the information below.

Sincerely,
Nathan Barling
ATVDiscounter.com
817.717.7013(Direct)
email: Nathan.Barling@atvdiscounter.com
online: http://www.atvdiscounter.com

[iMoose]

You state that you would have returned his money the instant the driver called you when picking up the bike. That's where you drop the ball. There's no reason that driver couldn't also have exchanged the WRONG bike for the CORRECT bike he PAID for by this same logic. You were forcing him to trust you after all the previous grief. What proof that you would refund his money did you offer? That's what he was worried about. Then he'd have no bike AND no money for up to 4 months if YOU choose.
At least he had something, instead of a promise that could be nothing.

Is this still your shipping policy? Send the wrong bike, say negative things to ebay, only ship the right bike weeks and weeks after the sale? Maybe?

I hope the learning curve we've all seen in this forum reaches you.

Any response?

[Jim]

ATVDiscounter, since you are here defending yourself, could you answer a question please?

How is it that you tell the customer a gy2 is a more expensive bike then a gy5? That is a blatant outright lie.

[mrhyak]

ATVDiscounter, since you are here defending yourself, could you answer a question please?

How is it that you tell the customer a gy2 is a more expensive bike then a gy5? That is a blatant outright lie.


Actually, you could buy a GY2 with more expensive options then a GY5 all
depending on how the importer orders the bike from China.

[TeamCheap]

OMG where are the hip waders it's getting deep in here.
(actually it looks like I'll need an air lift out of here)




I have some thoughts and questions that I may or may not post later.

[Jim]

ATVDiscounter, since you are here defending yourself, could you answer a question please?

How is it that you tell the customer a gy2 is a more expensive bike then a gy5? That is a blatant outright lie.


Actually, you could buy a GY2 with more expensive options then a GY5 all
depending on how the importer orders the bike from China.

That is true, but typically, the gy2's are cheaper, and it sounds like they bought old A.L. stock at a discounted price, and A.L. had the gy2's for less then the 5's

[ATVDiscounter]

iMoose - My finance department offered him a full refund via email multiple times. Any store would not give you the money back on a purchase until the item is back in the store. They are not going to give you the cash in hopes that you to bring the item back at a later date. Once the we had confirmation from the driver the unit was on the truck, the chargeback occurs. This is standard practice in the industry. Anytime a unit is picked up, you are given a receipt of shipment that shows sender and it's destination. This along with the emails from my finance company stating they would give a full refund once the unit was on the truck is all the proof anyone would need.

There was obviously a shipping mistake and we tried to fix the problem. We then offered a full refund, but the client did not want us to do the chargeback. There are other specifics around this issue that I do not feel comfortable speaking about, but I assure you all attempts were made to refund the client's money.

He instead chose to keep the unit. The GY-5 and GY-2 are fantastic units. Anyone would be happy to own either. I truly wish he could have received the unit he originally ordered. I also wish we could have come to a better solution for this particular client, but sadly we weren't. I honestly believe all attempts to fix the situation were offered and subsequently declined.

There are times in business where things don't work out the way both parties intended and this happens to be one of them. I could personally go into far greater detail about this transaction and this client, but I don't believe it is a good business practice to do so. I only posted on the forums to give a more accurate portrayal of the events that happened. I think both of us could have handled the entire ordeal differently, but I stand by our attempts to rectify the situation.

Again, if anyone has any questions please do not hesitate to contact me at any of methods below. Thanks.

Sincerely,
Nathan Barling
ATVDiscounter.com
817.717.7013(Direct)
email: Nathan.Barling@atvdiscounter.com
online: http://www.atvdiscounter.com

[Ream]

New website,nice.Funny thing though,I did`nt see any GY`s in it !! Did you sell all your GY-2`s to people that ordered GY-5`s, and now you have no GY`s???

[iMoose]

This Nathan guy isn't aware of us all seeing posts that are completely contradicting him and the timeline he's presenting. Or his wife's emails for that matter. And he/she wasn't willing to put the terms of the refund in writing, just verbally over the phone. Hence the refused pick-up.

Hope everybody in here is witnessing this "business practice".
Another member IN PERSON verified the emails Porter got.

If this guy just admitted they made a mistake and apologised, fine. But trying to cover it up with BS looks even worse. This isn't politics.

And what IS with the new website that doesn't show street legal bikes?
Weird.

[TeamCheap]

And what IS with the new website that doesn't show street legal bikes?
maybe its called "duck and cover"

[PorterzCustomz]

New website,nice.Funny thing though,I did`nt see any GY`s in it !! Did you sell all your GY-2`s to people that ordered GY-5`s, and now you have no GY`s???

YEA I NOTICED THAT TOO.. :D

[SpeedSouth]

Maybe I'm crazy....but if my business had an unhappy customer because of my (company's) mistake, and all other attempts to resolve the problem failed in the way this one has, at this point (or maybe a week ago) I would provide a partial refund.

ATVD admits it was their mistake. They know their customer was unhappy and settled for the wrong product. A full refund wasn't wanted (as determined by his actions), but why has there not been a partial refund to show that they are in fact really sorry for the way the transaction turned out, as well as a way of paying for the damaged battery?

Several people pointed out the risk involved in keeping a bike that was in a container with that open battery acid. Portez is willing to keep the bike, that's fine...he doesn't deserve a full refund....but he should get something for having received a damaged and incorrect product.

ATVD might not be able to charge a partial refund to his CC, but they could easily cut him a check and mail it to the address they sent the bike.

It's all fine and well to say they tried to rectify the situation, but as far as I understand it, they did not make any extra effort to make their customer happy. It seems they were content to let him keep the damaged bike so they could say it's all his fault. They don't seem to care that he's still extremely unhappy. A partial refund won't change the past, but would (in my opinion) prove that it was in fact an honest mistake.

If it were my business, I would want the customer to know that I really am sorry, even if there was a history of angry emails and whatever during the process. ATVD doesn't have to like their customers, but they do need to treat them all the same....with honesty and respect.


As I've said elsewhere, I doubt we have all the facts...but I do believe we have enough information to understand what's what.



One last thought....a happy customer MIGHT tell one person. An unhappy customer will always tell at least 10 people. Unhappy people are very eager to spread the word.

[DesertDog]

i dont care about excuses, if your in business of retailing or what ever to the general public, there's no excuse .. period :x
>
one complaint and its handled,
not , uhuhumm,,,, I so and so, fill in the name if you want . at cheap quads here sell over 30 thousand units a year/month/week. what ever, !
will there be issues in selling to the public yes,
>
but the issue here is you scanted, miss conducted yourself, ducted out.
i have not lost a customer to lousy business tactics,
i how ever have lost customers for poor quality products,
1 day or 30 days if your still not satisfied bring it back for a full refund no questions asked, thats it , no ducking and running like on the news with that one dealer in texas did.
>
so step up to the plate and give service till it hurts, if you loose $ on the sale , you loose $ on the sale. SO WHAT , YOU ARE SELLING A CHEAP PRODUCT,..... make the customer happy not you , that is greed
i'm done .DD

[PorterzCustomz]

Thanks for all the support. You can determine their business ethic just based on the tone in their emails that I posted and the feedback they leave. A partial refund would be nice, I don't care what they say the fact is the GY2 is worth less, its a discontinued bike for christ sake!! They would have spent $600 in shipping this one back and sending the correct one out (about $300 each bike) if they had a GY5. At bare minumim they would have spent $300 shipping this one back. So where is the savings going? In their greedy pocket. It's funny they have not responded to my reply, now you can all see their shadow games for yourselfs or they may just crawl out from under the rock and reply when they see all the angry people that will not buy from them. If you still fall for there oh we are innocent we wanted to help games talk to all the other people that they screwed.

[DesertDog]

:!: lets move on to something else,
:idea:

[motohillbilly]

Looks like they won. Maybe you should have let them pick it up. I agree that its time to move on. Take them to court.

[PorterzCustomz]

So this is going to have to be the new fraudulent title + ATVD Scam thread.

So I have a 2006/2008 Lifan GY2-GY5 that was made in 04/2006 and then remade in 03/2008. It's one of a kind.. You can see the fraudulent title here..

http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/4/4/21/f_titlem_7521c63.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/21/f_titlem_7521c63.jpg&srv=img33)

Please refer to and continue THIS thread http://chinariders.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=4016

TeamCheap

Like others have said, in a nutshell the document is not correct and THEY (ATVD) are the ones who did it and you if you do it right can sting them a bit by their own sloppy lazy business practices they have so willingly accepted to use.

That will indeed come back as an 06 (10th digit in vin) model is not correct although it is labeled as three models right on the bikes sticker but that could be argued and won.

I would give ATVD one last chance to make it legally correct or you'll just have to take care of it and then go report it to the proper authority who knows and can deal with it severely.

You know what just scratch that last part and burn-em if you can they dont deserve any less.

[motohillbilly]

I got curious and lookd at my actual title,not the mso.Its the same way. But the state didnt catch on.

Works out well for my current situation! State Farm has to buy it.

[elroyjetsn]

Do you think the Japanese went through all of this crap when they were trying to put out an XR whatever? What did we do before the internet.....

When i was a kid in the mid 60's (yeah, i know), a buddie of mine wanted me to go with him to check out some cheap Japanese motorcycles that a shop was selling in town. We got a real chuckle out of their wierd name "Yamaha" or something like that!!

Think they were all 2 stroke singles and a huge 350??? called a "Big Bear" or something. Still we drooled on them :lol:

[PorterzCustomz]

For the record..

"atvdiscounter Apr-24-08 at 12:45:09 PDT

We have not seen any pictures with a leaky battery or a different bike then in our auction. We sent the correct bike and correct title im not sure what your talking about but you need to end the dispute or we may take legal action against you. We do not take false allegations lightly and will not send you free battery!! We sent you the correct title so you must close the dispute immediately or we will take swift action.

Thank you"

[AZ200cc]

atvdiscounter Apr-24-08 at 12:45:09 PDT

We have not seen any pictures with a leaky battery or a different bike then in our auction. We sent the correct bike and correct title im not sure what your talking about but you need to end the dispute or we may take legal action against you. We do not take false allegations lightly and will not send you free battery!! We sent you the correct title so you must close the dispute immediately or we will take swift action.

Thank you

Contradicts what they posted on here a little, I doubt they really want a court battle about this. They would lose badly.

[motohillbilly]

Look Porterz, all BS aside here. You said you were taking ATVD to court. If this is the case and you need my title to be part of your case let me know. Mt Texas Title says 2007 but the vin decodes as a 2006. I dont have a beef with them but I feel your pain in buying a streetable bike that cant be titled for road use. Let me know if I can help on this issue. This is not a stab, I am being serious . Best of luck.

[Jim]

Maybe phone who ever it was who came here defending atvd as a company representative and let him know who ever is working for him is full of crap?

or, better yet, go to one of these websites, like blogspot and open your own blog atvdiscounterdisputes.blogspot.com or something, and document everything, in order, without all the garbage ("f this, f them, arguing back and forth") and so on, just the facts, and make sure only to state fact or opinion as to not be slanderous or libel and put a link in your forum signature.

Document it all from the beginning, all the emails, your emails, and the "defense" posted here by the company representative, then the email that came after.

Include a link to it in all further correspondence with the company.

[iMoose]

I dont have a beef with them but I feel your pain in buying a streetable bike that cant be titled for road use. Let me know if I can help on this issue. This is not a stab, I am being serious . Best of luck.

There's a true god-damned gentleman right there!
I hope this is the beginning of the end for all the pointless catty posting.

[Jim]

I dont have a beef with them but I feel your pain in buying a streetable bike that cant be titled for road use. Let me know if I can help on this issue. This is not a stab, I am being serious . Best of luck.

There's a true god-damned gentleman right there!
I hope this is the beginning of the end for all the pointless catty posting.

Second that motion.

[SpeedSouth]

That public blog sounds like an excellent idea, Jim.

[PorterzCustomz]

Look Porterz, all BS aside here. You said you were taking ATVD to court. If this is the case and you need my title to be part of your case let me know. Mt Texas Title says 2007 but the vin decodes as a 2006. I dont have a beef with them but I feel your pain in buying a streetable bike that cant be titled for road use. Let me know if I can help on this issue. This is not a stab, I am being serious . Best of luck.


Well thank you... As long as it slips though DMV I will let it go, if not im down the river and ATVD is holding my paddle. Did you write 2006 on the reg forum or 2008? What does your ins card say? My ins card decoded as 2008 so im not sure if I should stick with that on the reg or not, surly they are going to see a discrepancy if not them the police will if I ever get pulled over.

As a matter of fact I got pulled over yesterday!! The cop was coming at me from the other direction and lane, put his lights on and then actually blocked both lanes and parked in the middle of the road to block me off!!! He jumped out of his car yelling to get off the road with that Fin dirtbike!! when I told him it was a street legal bike he felt so stupid he did not bother to ask for reg/ins info and he said "whatever... just get out of here with your dirtbike" :roll:

[mrhyak]

The year of your bike is what it says on the title, not what the manufacture date is on the frame. Lifan does not have model year bikes, they have bike styles that are exactly the same from 2006 to 2008 and the only difference is what is on the title.

In 2000/01 the Russians went through some restructuring at their factory and new bike production stopped for a couple of years. The Ural company in the USA sold the exact same bike between 2001-2003 but the bikes were tagged depending on what year they were sold even though all were manufactured in 2001. Unless you need an inspection the only thing you will need is your title to get your plates/tags. If you open your mouth and start talking vin discrepencies you will only be causing yourself headaches. As long as the vin number on the title matches the one on the frame that is all you need.

If they make a stink about the title, saying it is not legal for the roads then maybe you could put it through inspection, but your mods you've been doing to it could cause it to fail inspection. You really should get your paperwork and so forth taken care of before you start modifying the bike, but that's your call.

FWIW........