Brake it too me slowly!

[Spins]

Guys, the front brakes on my Brozz are pathetic. Today I cleaned the front rotor again with degreaser and finished with alcohol. The brakes barely slow down the bike.
I tested the front brake going as low as 9 mph indicated. I’m unable to lock the front wheel squeezing the lever as hard as possible. What to do? I had considered to remove the pads and use some sand paper to possibly deglaze the pads. Has anyone purchased any upgraded pads with more bite? It’d be nice to actually be able to stop instead of just moderately slowing down!

[JerryHawk250]

Did you bleed the brakes yet? May have some air in the lines.

[Hancadam]

I'd agree with Jerry. Front brakes on my brozz are strong.

[BuffaloChinaRider]

You all beat me to it haha as they both said, try bleeding your brakes, a few years back this happened to one of my china bikes and bleeding the brakes was an instant fix.

[Spins]

No , I haven’t attempting to bleed the brakes yet. I guess it’s off to auto parts store again. I did change the oil over the weekend. I hit the 100+ mile mark.

[JerryHawk250]

I bought a hand pump vacuum brake bleeder from Harbor Freight that work perfect for these bikes.

[Spins]

I bought a hand pump vacuum brake bleeder from Harbor Freight that work perfect for these bikes.

I love that store!

Jerry, Is this the one ?

[JerryHawk250]

I love that store!

Jerry, Is this the one ?

That's the one.

[Spins]

Thanks!!

Already in my cart.

[Megadan]

One, yes, bleed the brakes, and once you feel you have it fully bled and back together, zip tie the brake lever back so it is partially engaged and leave it with the master reservoir as high as it can get for sever hours, tapping on the line and fittings one or two times as it sits like this. The compression of the fluid will reduce the bubble size of any remaining air and help it travel up the system, and the engaged lever will leave the port open to allow air to burp into the reservoir.

As far as the pads go, yes, different pads may help. I upgraded my Hawk from the original pads to a set of sintered pads I found on Taobao and the difference was huge.

[Spins]

Thanks for the advise Megadan and everyone else!
I’ll attempt to bleed the brakes after work tonight and report back.

[JerryHawk250]

I forgot all about mentioning that Megadan. :tup: The zip tie on the lever trick works great. I just left it on over night. Next day the breaks are good and firm.

[Weldangrind]

Two more tips for bleeding brakes. While at it, change the fluid to a decent DOT 3 and ensure that you don't overfill the reservoir.

[Spins]

Yes . I was planning on flushing it all out once I open it.

[roundhouse]

I flushed all the fluid in my hawk and it helped some but it was not until I hit my rotors with a sanding block and 800 grit sand paper then I pulled the pads and scuffed them up too on a flat surface. It made a big difference. I rode pretty easy on the brakes for 100 miles then when I clamped down they grabbed real good.

I do not know why but the rotors were glazed up. I bought my bike used though.

Note: I am not a mechanic and this may not be the right thing to do. It worked for me though.

Oh +1 for the pun

[Spins]

I finished flushing and bleeding the brakes. I have it set up with the a zip holding the brake lever in slightly. I tapped on everything attempting to loosen any trapped bubbles.

I’m planning on removing the caliper tomorrow night and hit the pads with some sand paper. Then take her for a spin.

[franque]

Don't do DOT 3, 4 is better, 3 is outdated.

[Spins]

I went with Dot 3. I know Dot 4 has a higher boiling point. It should be fine. This isn’t a track bike. I’m normally tooling around in the 40-50 mph. Hopefully the purge and bleed works.

[bogieboy]

I flushed all the fluid in my hawk and it helped some but it was not until I hit my rotors with a sanding block and 800 grit sand paper then I pulled the pads and scuffed them up too on a flat surface. It made a big difference. I rode pretty easy on the brakes for 100 miles then when I clamped down they grabbed real good.

I do not know why but the rotors were glazed up. I bought my bike used though.

Note: I am not a mechanic and this may not be the right thing to do. It worked for me though.

Oh +1 for the pun

not the greatest procedure for breakin on brakes... i prefer this method: https://www.autozone.com/diy/brakes/bedding-brakes

i have used this on every set of pads i have used, and all with great performance, wether on my Bicycle disc brakes, my dodge truck, motorcycle brakes, car brakes etc... its all about building a layer of brake pad compound on the rotor, and doing it evenly, hence the not stopping with hot brakes...

[Spins]

Thanks for the info. I vaguely remember reading this years ago on a car forum.

[Spins]

I attempted to break in the brakes as bogieboy suggested. I did this last night and let everything cool down as it was late. I took the bike out tonight. I would say the brakes are marginally better.
Perhaps I’m asking for too much. I was testing the bike after doing my first valve job. Probably the longest valve job on record. lol! The bike idles much better now.

[Spins]

New brake problem.
After bleeding the brakes with the vac pump and breaking them in they do work better. Now the break lever will pull in when at a stop. After about 30 sec of constant pressure the lever will touch the grip. Not good! I had a friend pump the lever then hold, I released the fitting on the caliper and bleed the lines this way. I did this several times and refilled reservoir. No change. Brakes stop and pump up but....

Any ideas?

[Bruces]

Is the fluid level dropping ?sounds-like you might have a tiny leak in the system ,

[Spins]

No leaks, that I can see. Never had the issue until I opened the system.

[bogieboy]

Did you add good brake fluid? I had this happen when i mistook power steering fluid for brake fluid. It cooked the seal in the master cylinder...

[Spins]

I used Auto Zone brand dot 3. Figured it was better than the OEM stuff from China. It’s an enduro that barely does 70mph on a good day ,not a race bike. I didn’t see the need for a DOT 4.

[Kenstogie]

though i have bled a few brakes in my day i am no expert......sounds like there may still be air in them.... tapping the entire system and also flushing again may do the trick....

fwiw my tbr7 brakes are pretty lame currently but i have only had it up and running one day and have yet to flush the brake system.... of course that helps you in no way. :hi:

[Spins]

I had the same issue . At first . The rotor must be cleaned well first. I bedded the brakes as another member suggested with a link. It worked. They improved greatly over time.

Could I have damaged something using the vacuum pump? I started thinking about it. When I used the vac I didn’t use a zip tie to hold the lever towards the grip. I simply removed the master cylinder lid and opened the valve on the caliper with vacuum tube attached. I kept the pressure within the correct limits. Drained and refilled the reservoir several times without completely emptying it.

[franque]

Just attach the brake lever to a broom, tie the lever down, and hold it vertically overnight, unless you've got air in the caliper it'll get it all.

[Megadan]

Assuming you still don't have a tiny bit of air still trapped in the system, you also just may have a slightly bad master cylinder piston seal. This would allow you to build pressure, but over time the pressure will bleed off as the fluid escapes around the piston seal back into the reservoir. It wouldn't be that unheard of on these cheap bikes.

[Spins]

Thanks,
I believe it bleed properly. It’s not difficult. I’ve done this many times on cars.
Is the piston seal replaceable ?

[2LZ]

If you do replace the master/handle, just replace the entire thing instead of just a piston cup. Super cheap.

I gravity bleed mine. Works fine. Hook a vac tube up to the caliper bleeder and stick the other end in a jar with a little fluid in it. Uncap the master and open the bleeder. Let it drain into the jar. You'll probably see bubbles.

[Kenstogie]

bled my front and back brakes today after work..... stops considerably better...also cleaned my rotors ....

fwiw my TBR7 indicates dot 4 fluid on the rear master cylinder..... which is what i used castrol to be specific Castrol 12509 Dot 4 Brake Fluid (12 Oz).... (https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-12509-Dot-Brake-Fluid/dp/B0093PHU9C) available probably everywhere but of course amazon...

[Spins]

Glad to here your brakes are improving.

[gwowzer]

I drained, flushed and bled according to csctt250 tutorial online which will be essentially identical to your process and as I drained, then bled, insured I was adding a known good quality dot 3 fluid. Flushed the system out completely (stock shipped fluid was a questionable yellowish tint), and all has been very strong with the braking.
I am pretty sure whatever fluid they are shipping is the same as what was in the forks. Hydraulic fluid just the same but also hydroscopic so not a good idea in the forks. Best to do both changeouts in an afternoon.
The one man bleeder I didn't find necessary, at all. With two beers and some extremely mild acrobatics was much easier than any typical car. Very small amount of fluid the motorcycle holds so you flush it all out in about two or three pumping and dumping cycles.

[Megadan]

As far as fluid goes, this is my favorite go-to. https://www.amazon.com/Ravenol-J3A1001-Brake-Fluid-Synthetic/dp/B004GX2XP2/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?dchild=1&keywords=ravenol+dot+5.2&qid=1585183778&sr=8-1-fkmr1

5.1 is compatible with 4 or 3, and has a higher boiling point than either both dry and wet.

[Kenstogie]

As far as fluid goes, this is my favorite go-to. https://www.amazon.com/Ravenol-J3A1001-Brake-Fluid-Synthetic/dp/B004GX2XP2/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?dchild=1&keywords=ravenol+dot+5.2&qid=1585183778&sr=8-1-fkmr1

5.1 is compatible with 4 or 3, and has a higher boiling point than either both dry and wet.

better yes but also 2x the price..... If you are not breaking heavily and consistently is it necessary or in other words ......How much better is it? does is justify the price? (maybe it absolutely does just wondering)

(I picked castrol cuz it was the least expensive Dot 4 from a reputable manufacturer I could find on the Zon..... with out searching forever......searching on amazon can be like falling down a rabbit hole )

[bogieboy]

better yes but also 2x the price..... If you are not breaking heavily and consistently is it necessary or in other words ......How much better is it? does is justify the price? (maybe it absolutely does just wondering)

(I picked castrol cuz it was the least expensive Dot 4 from a reputable manufacturer I could find on the Zon..... with out searching forever......searching on amazon can be like falling down a rabbit hole )

rabbit holes? they have those....LOL you want book, MP3, digital album? take your pick...LOL

[Spins]

I reached to Jeff at PeaceSports today about the problem. He’s shipping me a new caliper and master cylinder assembly. Awesome customer service!!

[Megadan]

better yes but also 2x the price..... If you are not breaking heavily and consistently is it necessary or in other words ......How much better is it? does is justify the price? (maybe it absolutely does just wondering)

(I picked castrol cuz it was the least expensive Dot 4 from a reputable manufacturer I could find on the Zon..... with out searching forever......searching on amazon can be like falling down a rabbit hole )

2 times the price? Might want to check the math there ;) Your posted bottle was 12 oz for $6.77, or 56 cents an ounce.

Mine was 32 ounces for $16.79, which is 52 cents per ounce.

[Kenstogie]

2 times the price? Might want to check the math there ;) Your posted bottle was 12 oz for $6.77, or 56 cents an ounce.

Mine was 32 ounces for $16.79, which is 52 cents per ounce.
i guess id better check my amounts thanks mega dan😀

[Megadan]

i guess id better check my amounts thanks mega dan��

No biggie. I figured you didn't see the bottle size. It's just the economics of scale at work. We are talking a couple of pennies at the end of the day between them. I like the Ravenol because it's a good German brand, is DOT 5.1 synthetic, and it comes in a metal container, which does not allow the transmission of water molecules, unlike plastic, so it should have a longer shelf life/stability if stored in a climate controlled area. The only downside to it is, you can't just go pick it up at the parts store whenever you need some, which is why I always have a new bottle on hand whenever I open the next one.

[Kenstogie]

No biggie. I figured you didn't see the bottle size. It's just the economics of scale at work. We are talking a couple of pennies at the end of the day between them. I like the Ravenol because it's a good German brand, is DOT 5.1 synthetic, and it comes in a metal container, which does not allow the transmission of water molecules, unlike plastic, so it should have a longer shelf life/stability if stored in a climate controlled area. The only downside to it is, you can't just go pick it up at the parts store whenever you need some, which is why I always have a new bottle on hand whenever I open the next one.

i always wondered....after you open a can of brake fluid how long can you still use it? i am sure ambient conditions would make that time vary but i am talking on the shelf near all your other chemicals in the garage....

EDIT: did some research and an open can would be about a year (at most from what I read) and never opened in tin can would longer than never opened plastic

it turns brown/black as it ages

Google Says:
within 12 months
Most manufacturers recommend that any open bottle of DOT brake fluid should be used within 12 months, or else discarded. Keep in mind that a full year is the very outside limit of what would be acceptable.

Opened vs. Unopened http://knowhow.napaonline.com/understanding-brake-fluid-shelf-life-important-auto-essentials/
When a bottle of brake fluid leaves the factory, it’s sealed so that it doesn’t come into contact with any outside air that might also contain moisture. Most brake fluid manufacturers state that a sealed bottle has no set expiration date. In a sense, the fluid doesn’t break down over time and offers the same level of performance even after years on the shelf.

An open bottle is a different story. Even if you’ve only poured a little out of the bottle, you’ve still introduced moisture into the equation, and the chemical process of absorbing that liquid from the air has begun. Most manufacturers recommend that any open bottle of DOT brake fluid should be used within 12 months, or else discarded. Keep in mind that a full year is the very outside limit of what would be acceptable. A three-month period is more likely to offer a better limit of safety in terms of keeping the boiling point near its original level

[Spins]

Just wanted to post an update. Jeff at Pease Sports shipped me a new caliper, line and master cylinder. Installed everything problem solved, back up and riding.
Great service!!

[Spins]

Hey Guys, I was out riding last night and my master cylinder is failing again. My brake lever is slowly pulling to my bars at stops. It’s not as bad as before but definitely needs replacement. I only have around 700 miles on my bike and now this part has failed twice. There are no leaks that I could find. I didn’t bleed the brakes after Jeff replaced it under warranty the first time, I wanted to ride. I haven’t experienced any issues to date except the poor initial bite. So my question? Should I reorder from Jeff or where could a get a better quality part that would fit? I don’t mind spending a little more as I’d like to put this issue to bed.

[cycleway4]

hi Spins....if I understood correctly,....if you replaced the caliper, hose, and master cylinder from Jeff under the warranty, and didn't bleed them at the time,...I believe I would do a good bleeding of the system. you almost certainly have to have air in it.

[Mrmazak]

Hey Guys, I was out riding last night and my master cylinder is failing again. My brake lever is slowly pulling to my bars at stops. It’s not as bad as before but definitely needs replacement. I only have around 700 miles on my bike and now this part has failed twice. There are no leaks that I could find. I didn’t bleed the brakes after Jeff replaced it under warranty the first time, I wanted to ride. I haven’t experienced any issues to date except the poor initial bite. So my question? Should I reorder from Jeff or where could a get a better quality part that would fit? I don’t mind spending a little more as I’d like to put this issue to bed.


I'm only caching onto the end of this thread, but you NEED to bleed brakes any and every time you remove the fittings,

This sounds absurd that you say you did not bleed the brakes when you replaced master cylinder

[Spins]

Jeff from Peace Sports sent me an entirely new master cylinder replacement with line , fluid , pads and caliber sealed from the factory.
My first master cylinder failed after bleeding and replacing the fluid in an attempt to firm up the brakes.

[Spins]

I understand if I opened the system it needs to be bleed. Not my first time doing brakes. Most guys hear say to replace the stock fluid. I did this the first go around and was met with issues, failed master cylinder.
I was considering bleeding them today as I really have nothing to loose, except some time and a few buck on new brake fluid. But I have a feeling it’s not gonna help. Air shouldn’t enter a sealed system.

[Mrmazak]

I understand if I opened the system it needs to be bleed. Not my first time doing brakes. Most guys hear say to replace the stock fluid. I did this the first go around and was met with issues, failed master cylinder.
I was considering bleeding them today as I really have nothing to loose, except some time and a few buck on new brake fluid. But I have a feeling it’s not gonna help. Air shouldn’t enter a sealed system.


Well fading brake pressure happens when temp is extremely high ( boiling)

Which usually only happens when there is temp changes, and you have condensation. like when packages air flown at high altitude I cold environment, then used in hot environment. There is high chance of condensation, so could be boiling the water.

Just a speculation.

[tknj99]

Just a tip: if you have an oil extractor, it makes bleeding brakes extremely simple.. connect the extractor hose to the front master cylinder bleep nipple, apply a little suction, loosen the nut and watch the oil flow, simultaneous add fresh oil to the reservoir which will chase the oil fluid out, once you see clean fluid flowing out the bleed valve, tighten the nut and done. Repeat for the rear.

[Spins]

Thanks,
I actually purchased an inexpensive vacuum pump brake bleeder Jerry Hawk recommended. I tried this the first go around with this bike. Then the pump hold open the valve , tighten and repeat.
My rears are drum.

[Spins]

Well, I bled the front brakes and installed new DOT 4 brake fluid. I ended up with the same results. Actually , the handle is worse, good and hard but pulls into the bar faster than last night.

The fluid was dark in color and of course one screw wouldn’t budge from the reservoir. It stripped so I used my drimel to cut it and into the lid to get a bite with a flat blade screwdriver. I used my spare parts from the old one as replacements, glad I didn’t toss them.
So the bike is parked. Sux!
I just did some maintenance an now this.

[Deckard_Cain]

Well, I bled the front brakes and installed new DOT 4 brake fluid. I ended up with the same results. Actually , the handle is worse, good and hard but pulls into the bar faster than last night.

The fluid was dark in color and of course one screw wouldn’t budge from the reservoir. It stripped so I used my drimel to cut it and into the lid to get a bite with a flat blade screwdriver. I used my spare parts from the old one as replacements, glad I didn’t toss them.
So the bike is parked. Sux!
I just did some maintenance an now this.

Have you considered trying one of the aftermarket brake master/reservoir/handle combos available on ebay/Amazon?

Maybe the stock style master cylinder just sucks for longevity.

[Spins]

I have one on order right now.

[JohnC]

I find this all pretty interesting considering the front brakes on my 2020 Brozz, will easily put you over the bars if you get really aggressive with them. Seems all the discussion here is on target. Something is definitely wrong with this bike. And changing the fluid is where I would start.


John

[Spins]

I find this all pretty interesting considering the front brakes on my 2020 Brozz, will easily put you over the bars if you get really aggressive with them. Seems all the discussion here is on target. Something is definitely wrong with this bike. And changing the fluid is where I would start.


John

I wish!

It seems to be hit or miss with these bikes. I have drums on the back which sux. Okay on dirt but on the street they barely do anything. I’ve adjusted them as far as I can till I hear the hub not dragging.

The fronts have always sux. No bite . I’ve cleaned the crap out of the rotor before installing it. And I’ve sanded the pads attempt to remove any glaze.
I attempted to bed them as another member here suggested. This seemed to help some. But my CRF rear brake has more stopping power than both my brakes combined on the Brozz.
I jumped on the Brozz after riding that CRF a few days ago and the Brozz is
honestly a little dangerous. Don’t get me wrong, I love the Brozz. Just wish I could figure this out.

I’m Spinning my wheels here!

[david3921]

Just curious, is the brake line you received braided or rubber?

[Spins]

They are rubber.

[Spins]

Well, I finally was able to replace my front master cylinder. I ordered two from Amazon. The first had an 8mm mirror opening with the brake line connection in the stock location on the end. I ended up ordering a second one with the stock 10 mm mirror opening with the connect on the front. It worked I just had to reroute the line slightly as my bark busters were in the way. I bled the brakes and the lever is hard, it’s never been this firm before. Took her for a spin around the neighborhood and at first the brakes felt ok but just like before no bite. I put some gear on and hit the road . Brakes seemed to improve the more I rode. I actually heard the front tires start to squill as I hit the brake hard to make a u turn . Never heard that before. I’m calling her fixed. Hopefully no more brake issues. I had such I smile on my face riding tonight. I’ve never had so much fun going slow!
Here’s the link to the one I installed.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FKNQ7L4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_NVAVK45RFG5B02C9S9D7?_ encoding=UTF8&psc=1