No flow on new oil cooler install

[Goob]

Hey all!

Got the oil cooler installed today on my TT250, but no flow!

Primed the cooler once mounted with the ports at the top.

Hooked up the connection at the pump, installed the lines at the pump end and then primed them while holding up vertically.

Attached the lines to the cooler.

Started up, no leaks, but no flow even after a short, but spirited ride.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Goob

[JerryHawk250]

How do you know you don't have flow? Engine would of burned up if the oil wasn't flowing.

[Megadan]

Only way there would be no flow through the cooler but no engine catastrophe is if the seal on the fitting to the block that separates the sump and pump is either not there or leaking badly.

[JerryHawk250]

Only way there would be no flow through the cooler but no engine catastrophe is if the seal on the fitting to the block that separates the sump and pump is either not there or leaking badly.

That is possible.

[Goob]

I am going to be re-checking my install.

I saw a youtube from the Philippines where they had to adjust the rotation of the take-off fitting to get flow. They moved the ports so that they were vertically aligned, as they were offset to start with the top port a bit to the right of the bottom port. This is the way mine is right now.

Also, I may have taken off the blue plastic fitting thinking it was just packing material.....now I see that this actually acts as a seal.

They also messed with the banjo fittings at the cooler, but I think those can be mounted in any position and flow. I hope so, as my install is tighter on the TT250 vs. the Hawk.

[roundhouse]

So I tried to get flow through the cooler by turning over the motor and I had the end of the return line off.

It would not flow anything. I pulled the valve cover and got flow there but not through the cooler. So I put it all together and started it.

I marked the oil on the site lens while the bike was upright in a home made front tire chock. I started it and let it run for 10 seconds and it started and ran like normal. I killed it and saw the lens was slightly lower so oil was being pulled from the pan. It slowly filled back to my line over a few minutes.

I started it again and let it run. I used my infrared temp gun to check the temp on the oil cooler. It was well over ambient temp and was not being heated by the motor as I still had it hanging from the frame by a zip tie. So I started it again and let it run for a while. Temp rose on the cooler again. I pulled the return line before it got to hot to hold. It was full of oil.

I pulled the spark plug wire again and turned it over....nothing came out again. I even put the wire back on and started it and nothing came out. I drained as much oil out of the cooler as possible then put it all together and started it. Cooler had time to cool down but heated up again as the oil from the pan went through it. I pulled the return line and again there was oil in it.

I have put 2K miles on the bike since with zero probs and even when I ride the bike and it is cold the cooler heats up so I am getting flow but for some reason just not when the oil line is open.

All that to say maybe your bike is like mine. Test it like I did. You may have flow but only when the system is closed which I do not understand but it is functioning.

[JerryHawk250]

The pump doesn't push the oil through cooler. It sucks it through the line from the base. That's why you won't have oil flow with the line disconnect.

[Goob]

So I tried to get flow through the cooler by turning over the motor and I had the end of the return line off.

It would not flow anything. I pulled the valve cover and got flow there but not through the cooler. So I put it all together and started it.

I marked the oil on the site lens while the bike was upright in a home made front tire chock. I started it and let it run for 10 seconds and it started and ran like normal. I killed it and saw the lens was slightly lower so oil was being pulled from the pan. It slowly filled back to my line over a few minutes.

I started it again and let it run. I used my infrared temp gun to check the temp on the oil cooler. It was well over ambient temp and was not being heated by the motor as I still had it hanging from the frame by a zip tie. So I started it again and let it run for a while. Temp rose on the cooler again. I pulled the return line before it got to hot to hold. It was full of oil.

I pulled the spark plug wire again and turned it over....nothing came out again. I even put the wire back on and started it and nothing came out. I drained as much oil out of the cooler as possible then put it all together and started it. Cooler had time to cool down but heated up again as the oil from the pan went through it. I pulled the return line and again there was oil in it.

I have put 2K miles on the bike since with zero probs and even when I ride the bike and it is cold the cooler heats up so I am getting flow but for some reason just not when the oil line is open.

All that to say maybe your bike is like mine. Test it like I did. You may have flow but only when the system is closed which I do not understand but it is functioning.

So I will try your procedure. The other thing is that I found a youtube from the Phillipines where the adaptor was rotated just a bit off...so the top port was back a bit from the bottom port, rather than being aligned vertically. They also messed with making sure the lines were well primed at the same time, so maybe that was it. Going to try both of those things too.

[Goob]

OK, so the big mistake I made was thinking that the blue plastic at the end of the adaptor was just a shipping thing. I had taken it off and put it aside. Luckily I didn't throw it out.

So, it is back together waiting to add oil. Hopefully I will have flow now that the proper seal is in place.

The other thing was that the adaptor needed to end up with the bolt holes for the banjo connections offset a bit, with the top one to the back, in order to get it reasonably tight. It would not go around more to get the holes lined up vertically. Hopefully, this makes no difference.

[JerryHawk250]

Glad you figured it out. :tup:

[Megadan]

OK, so the big mistake I made was thinking that the blue plastic at the end of the adaptor was just a shipping thing. I had taken it off and put it aside. Luckily I didn't throw it out.

So, it is back together waiting to add oil. Hopefully I will have flow now that the proper seal is in place.

The other thing was that the adaptor needed to end up with the bolt holes for the banjo connections offset a bit, with the top one to the back, in order to get it reasonably tight. It would not go around more to get the holes lined up vertically. Hopefully, this makes no difference.

Yes, that blue bit of rubber/plastic is a seal that separates the pump and sump to allow the cooler to work. with it now in place it should function.


As far as the hole alignment, I ran into the same thing. Luckily it doesn't need to be super tight for the O-ring to seal. I added a little hylomar to the threads of mine just to ensure a proper seal and that it wouldn't back out, but it should be fine without such a measure.

[Goob]

Yes, that blue bit of rubber/plastic is a seal that separates the pump and sump to allow the cooler to work. with it now in place it should function.


As far as the hole alignment, I ran into the same thing. Luckily it doesn't need to be super tight for the O-ring to seal. I added a little hylomar to the threads of mine just to ensure a proper seal and that it wouldn't back out, but it should be fine without such a measure.

Thanks Megadan. However, with all things seemingly installed correctly, when started and run for a couple of minutes the lines didn't heat up and a noticeable clicking started from the tappets. I shut it down immediately and decided that the whole thing just wasn't worth ruining my engine over.

As my son said...the CG is a low compression, non-stressed, designed to be abused engine....why does it need it? Sort of makes sense to me. I guess I was caught up in the cool modification thing.

I will just make sure my carb is jetted well and change the oil often. If it gets hot in the summer, maybe I'll just do a non-engine-life threatening 12V fan!

[Megadan]

Thanks Megadan. However, with all things seemingly installed correctly, when started and run for a couple of minutes the lines didn't heat up and a noticeable clicking started from the tappets. I shut it down immediately and decided that the whole thing just wasn't worth ruining my engine over.

As my son said...the CG is a low compression, non-stressed, designed to be abused engine....why does it need it? Sort of makes sense to me. I guess I was caught up in the cool modification thing.

I will just make sure my carb is jetted well and change the oil often. If it gets hot in the summer, maybe I'll just do a non-engine-life threatening 12V fan!

If my bike was standard, and I didn't push it as hard as I often do, I actually agree that there is not serious need for an oil cooler. I ran my last Hawk for several thousand miles with no cooler, and no issues. Just more frequent oil changes.

That said, my current bike has much higher compression, porting, etc. It does get hot, and rather quickly.

As far as the cooler heating up, even my bike won't noticeably get warm until it has been running for a few minutes or longer. You won't feel much of anything through the lines unless your oil has been at temp for quite a while. The rubber inside the line insulates the heat rather well from coming to the outside. My cooler can be too hot to touch and I can grab the lines with little to no discomfort.

In regards to the tapping, does it also start getting tappy with the cooler removed after a couple of minutes? These engines aren't known for their quiet valvetrains.

[Goob]

If my bike was standard, and I didn't push it as hard as I often do, I actually agree that there is not serious need for an oil cooler. I ran my last Hawk for several thousand miles with no cooler, and no issues. Just more frequent oil changes.

That said, my current bike has much higher compression, porting, etc. It does get hot, and rather quickly.

As far as the cooler heating up, even my bike won't noticeably get warm until it has been running for a few minutes or longer. You won't feel much of anything through the lines unless your oil has been at temp for quite a while. The rubber inside the line insulates the heat rather well from coming to the outside. My cooler can be too hot to touch and I can grab the lines with little to no discomfort.

In regards to the tapping, does it also start getting tappy with the cooler removed after a couple of minutes? These engines aren't known for their quiet valvetrains.

Megadan,

Once I put the stock filter and plug back in and re-filled with oil there was none of the same type of tapping. It was clearly a different tap than "normal". I have a pretty good ear for this having had air-cooled, push-rod, OHV, VW's for many, many years; including a 914 that I had hopped-up a bit.

P.S., the cooler didn't get warm either.

I put the cooler in my box of stuff that I bought and didn't use! At least it wasn't very expensive.

My cooler fix will have to come from stock one on the RXB150 I just bought...won't even have to get my hands oily.

[Megadan]

Megadan,

Once I put the stock filter and plug back in and re-filled with oil there was none of the same type of tapping. It was clearly a different tap than "normal". I have a pretty good ear for this having had air-cooled, push-rod, OHV, VW's for many, many years; including a 914 that I had hopped-up a bit.

P.S., the cooler didn't get warm either.

Almost sounds like there is an obstruction somewhere in the system. The hard part is tracking down where, but since you don't seem to need the cooler setup it doesn't really make it worth the time to figure it out.

[Goob]

Almost sounds like there is an obstruction somewhere in the system. The hard part is tracking down where, but since you don't seem to need the cooler setup it doesn't really make it worth the time to figure it out.

Yeah, I am done with lying on my side covered in oil!

The only factor, that I saw on a Pilipino youtube, was they decided the ports needed to be fully aligned vertically to get flow. When I tried to align like this the adaptor was pretty loose, though it did not leak oil. This was the first time around before I realized the "seal" wasn't in place on the end of the adaptor.

Not so sure this alignment actually makes any difference though, as other youtubes don't adhere to this.

[China Rider 27]

As I remember the oil cooler engine mount fitting it is plumbed in the center for the oil pump pickup and plumbed to the outside of that for the sump oil pickup inlet. The seal goes on the center isolating the sump from the oil pump and forcing the engine to suck the oil through cooler by picking up oil from the sump area inlet on the fitting up through the cooler and down into the oil pump so orientation would have no impact on the oil pump drawing oil through the cooler. You might be able to see if it is drawing oil through the cooler by putting the inlet line in a small jar of oil, making sure have primed cooler and lines, place the kill switch on or take out the plug, and turning over the engine to see if it will suck down the oil in the glass giving an indication it is drawing oil. Just a thought.