ATV Discounter SCAM Part 2

[PorterzCustomz]

Typical experience with ATV Deceivers is as follows..

They send you the wrong bike, (a cheaper older model) then keep their fingers crossed that you will either not know the difference or just deal with it and hide out with your money in their pocket + the added bonus of a few hundred extra you sent for the newer bike you don't get, so they basically make double profit.

Their main tactics involve completely ignoring emails and shutting off the phones, leaving only the main "buy a bike" number open and when you call that number they say you have to call the other number that never picks up. You end up leaving many nasty emails messages exc they are all ignored hoping you will go away. They have 31 complaints with the BBB and many angry customers.. here are just a few...

http://www.fairlyoddcouple.com/?p=21

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/255/RipOff0255422.htm

http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=atvdiscounter&Dirn=Left+by

http://reviews.ebay.com/quot-ROKETA-quot-quads-rip-offs_W0QQugidZ10000000004074597

http://forums.atvconnection.com/messageview.cfm/catid/10/threadid/529948

http://search.bbb.org/Results.aspx?url=atvdiscounter.com

http://forums.atvconnection.com/messageview.cfm?FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Branch&catid=10&threadid=537519

http://scootdawg.proboards59.com/index.cgi?board=talk&action=display&thread=1205613960&page=1

************************************************** ***********

Then after you go thru all that you finally figure out whats really going on and you take serious action. In my case filed a complaint with ebay and my credit card company.

Once they see your getting serious they then switch to new tactics. They actually threaten you that they will take legal action against you for giving them a bad name. They also start responding to your emails and tell you that there email and phones must have been broken or you must have never called because they did not get the message.

After they play that game they start a new one. They tell you they will arrange pickup of the wrong bike and will send you out a new one or refund you AS SOON as your bike gets on their truck. After it gets on the truck they stop responding again and then send ebay and your credit card company the tracking number for the original bike and tell them you must be crazy..

************************************************** ***********

She called me this morning and told me to get the bike ready to ship out tomorrow because shes going to refund the money. Shortly after the phone call I email her the details of what we talked about and asked her to confirm it so I would have it in writing. As soon as I send that email she then stops responding again and shuts off the phone.. I try all day long to get in touch with her with no luck. Later on that afternoon I get a truck driver at my door asking for the bike. I was not home yet and my friends knew what was going on and told him its not suppose to be picked up untill tomorrow. I purposely emailed her this morning right after the call to get the agreement in writing before the next day when he was suppose to pick up the bike so I was not out my bike and my money.

Looks like that was the her plan after all.. I still have the bike.. she is hiding again... H E L P!!

[katoranger]

FYI, Frostbite moved your other thread to the Dealer Discussion area since it didn't relate to the actual bike, but the dealer.

He will probably move this one too.

Thanks for all the links. The number of hits that your other thread had will sure help others.

Allen

[PorterzCustomz]

oh did it get moved? I was not aware..

PLEASE EMAIL

sheri.barling@atvdiscounter.net

And tell her that their antics WILL NOT BE TOLERATED BY THE COMMUNITY!!
Please tell her that we will all continue to spread the word on her operation until they clean up their act!! We can start to put them out of business.. If they do not treat their customers right then they will loose them!! Let her know shes is not "the number 1 lifan dealer on the internet" like she thinks she is!!

[ejcycles]

Porterz

Post all of their e~mail addresses in the prior post. I have followed this from the beginning, just kept my mouth shut. Evreryone here knows that I'm against Drop-Shipping because of crud like this and everything else that goes with it.

I'm In!!!!!!

[red2003]

I just sent them this e-mail.

Hello,

I have been following a heated discussion on a prominent China Bike forum that your company, ATV Discounters, has apparently pulled a bait and switch, and are not satisfying the customer as your eBay adds proudly proclaim. If this is indeed the case, I feel it is blatant fraud on your part and I encourage you to send him the correct bike as advertised. The China bike community is a close-knit group, and word of mouth spreads quickly among us. We encourage new riders to go to established dealers that are TRUSTWORTHY and also encourage them to shy away from scammers. Be aware, we are watching this play out closely.

[mrhyak]

If you really don't want the bike and they sent a driver out to pick it up, you should have let them have it. Since you refused them from picking the bike up then they now can say they attempted to fix the situation and the buyer would not allow us to get the bike.

As long as you have the bike in your possession you will have a tough time getting anything done. I understand the seller history, but they did say they would resolve the problem and it appears they made an attempt. If you put roadblocks in the way of them following through then it makes you out to be the one hard to deal with....

No company I know of would give a full refund before getting their merchandise back.

A few weeks ago I purchased a motorcycle part for my Kawasaki 3-wheeler, was said to be in good working condition, etc. When it arrived it was not usable, obviously never tested so I assumed (looking at prior feedback) I was screwed. THey would never respond to my emails so I finally put in a claim with paypal and boom, instant response from seller (what do you know?). They asked me to send the part back and would refund...I trusted them even though I figured I'd get screwed some way but they ended up giving me a full refund and even included their overpriced shipping charge.

Sometimes things do work out if you give it a chance...

FWIW.....

[AZ200cc]

Yah should have let them take the bike

[red2003]

I don't blame him for not letting the bike go before he had the return policy in writing. It sounds like they are refusing to communicate with him, and that just sounds shady to me. If he loses the bike then he has NO leverage with them. At this point I think he's trying to protect himself, and rightfuly so.

[pacman]

I would not let them pick up the bike if I did'nt have anything in writing. They could easily scam you again and just keep the bike and the money. You can't prove anything.

Hope it all works out for you!

[AZ200cc]

I just thought that if the bike as in transit he would have better leverage with the CC company on forcing a refund, The truck driver would have to give him a packslip before he could take it anyways. But than again I have never had to deal with anything like this so I am kinda talking outta my butt :lol:

[TeamCheap]

It always amazes me how the ones pulling the shady stuff are so very very keen on how to protect themselves.

The BIG ATV-deceivers claim, what was it, a million in sales or a million units sold, or whatever but are afraid of one little bike being out of their sticky little paws as if they are the ones getting screwed over.Now I'm sure there are people that try to screw over business's but the facts are the facts and the facts are they tryed the old bait and switch, got caught and just need to make it right so it ends well for everyone.

I wouldnt send the wrong bike back first since they have less than zero credibility they need to make it good first.Porterz tryed it their way and they gladly took his money and then sent the wrong bike but worse than that they try to dodge him s oyou know right there they knew what was up so nope they need to step up and make it right.

It seems they trust their customers about as much as they can be trusted.

[theENIGMATIC]

Yeah.Im sure the driver would of had Port sign the release of the bike???
Who knows man you prob should have let him take the bike...
Im sure they would have refunded or sent the GY-5 whatever they promised, they are not going to paticipate in criminal activity Im assuming.....if they have bikes to sell they probably just want to do that!!

maybe they got in over their heads and don't have the staff or resources to keep up with a lot of orders or shipping problems. There is always the possibility that this situation was not intentional on their part.

[mrhyak]

If/when you do send the bike back make sure you document the condition with photo's! You don't want them coming back saying the bike is missing parts, or was thrashed, whatever. Get a pic of the delivery guy loading it and leaving, etc....

[Jim]

The bike was damaged when he got it though...

[mrhyak]

The bike was damaged when he got it though...

He never said the bike was damaged. He said acid leaked out of the plastic
bottle. If it was damaged, document that too..... Just CYA.

[Jim]

Right, sorry I meant, there was some damage or issues when he got it, I was referring to the battery ;)

[theENIGMATIC]

I know when my bike arrived the driver made me sign after looking the bike over...I know kind of hard when you have to open box and uncrate etc... but as far as I know that signature can relieve them of possible wrong doing....Im pretty sure the shipping company signs when they pick-up off the dealer, holding themselves responsible for shipping damages...until the bike arrives to the owner, thats what insurance is about, electrolyte is packed pretty good on these bikes by the OEM and dealers, what happened to Portz bike was most likely from shipping, but I dont think they intentionally smashed the battery acid all over to add any insult to injury, maybe ask to put in a shipping damage claim??
Its a shame shi7 like this happens!!

[motohillbilly]

Well what ever the case I know that they watch this site and now they know that he has abused it by riding it at 10,000 rmp when new. There went any warranty ... Not smart.

[Jim]

Well what ever the case I know that they watch this site and now they know that he has abused it by riding it at 10,000 rmp when new. There went any warranty ... Not smart.

what are you talking about?

[theENIGMATIC]

It looked like Porterz had ATV Discount by the balls for awhile, but now hes just ruining the bike he has on purpose out of anger by the looks of it.....although he should be patted on the back for bringing this issue up....hopefully ATV learned the difference between the GY-2 and the GY-5, or that they have decided not to pull any more fast ones......
but they should be given the thumbs up too for owning up to the mistake and offering a refund, which yeah after Porterz riding it......I wouldnt blame them for not honouring that anymore!!

[motohillbilly]

Im talking about his post 10000rmp and 58mph. The post that gives evidence that the bike has not been broken in properly, therefore voiding all warrenty. I hope he grows to like that bike cause hes stuck with it now.

Im talking about his post 10000rmp and 58mph. The post that gives evidence that the bike has not been broken in properly, therefore voiding all warrenty. I hope he grows to like that bike cause hes stuck with it now.


Where do you see this post??? I don't think he has even uncrated it.......

[Jim]

Oh I see, I hadn't seen that one...

There is a topic in general

I guess he's decided to keep it...

[usmc-mustang]

I read the forum the day it was listed, I knew at that point where it was going. As a business owner, I am aware of how a person should act, and will act concerning a problem. Anytime a customer gets impatient or angry, the desire to fix the problem goes out the door.

I am not defending the ATVDiscounter, but the buyer needed to be patient from the begining. There are easy ways to fix it, and none of them where proceeded with. The credit card company, the county attorney, as well as the chamber of commerce.

Now that he has ridden it, he owns it. Let alone at 10k..

[katoranger]

I read the forum the day it was listed, I knew at that point where it was going. As a business owner, I am aware of how a person should act, and will act concerning a problem. Anytime a customer gets impatient or angry, the desire to fix the problem goes out the door.

I am not defending the ATVDiscounter, but the buyer needed to be patient from the begining. There are easy ways to fix it, and none of them where proceeded with. The credit card company, the county attorney, as well as the chamber of commerce.

Now that he has ridden it, he owns it. Let alone at 10k..

He attempted to call them to correct it immediately after recieving the bike and no response for days. Then after he phone the CC company suddenly a response was made.

I say he gave them a chance to correct it first, but they blew him off.

Assembling the bike and riding it makes it his bike now though. He should have sent it back when they came to get it.

Allen

[SpeedSouth]

Assembling the bike and riding it makes it his bike now though. He should have sent it back when they came to get it.

Allen

The sad thing is, this does nothing to discourage the dealer in question from doing this very same thing to the next customer.

As I said at the start, they are banking on the customer giving up and accepting what they send. They won. :(

I believe I would have sent it back (at my own expense if needed) and documented the return for the CC company.

It sucks to lose money on a bad deal....but it sucks worse to let those guys off the hook, IMO.

[katoranger]

I would not have bought from them in the first place. Too many bad comments. Not worth the cost savings.

There are proper steps to follow for returning an item like that.

Allen

[PorterzCustomz]

Let me clear this up one and for all... I only assembled the bike after I had reason to believe they would pick up the bike and not refund the money. I tried contacting them for 2 weeks of phone calls, emails exc and they finally responded when I filed the complaints with ebay and my cc company. I have good reason to believe they would have picked up the bike and then ignored me again without a refund. I talked to another guy who bought a bike from them and he sent it back and its been over a month and he is still without a refund and they refuse to respond anymore!!!

YOU WOULD NOT SEND YOUR BIKE BACK IF YOU KNEW YOU WERE NOT GUARANTEED YOUR MONEY BACK. KEEPING A BIKE I DID NOT REALLY WANT IS BETTER THEN NO BIKE AND NO MONEY.

I AM ALREADY HAVING ENOUGH TROUBLE GETTING MY BILL OF SALE AND TITLE FROM THEM, THEY HAVE NOT SENT IT YET AND THEY HAD THE NERVE TO TELL ME DIRT BIKES DON'T COME WITH TITLES. THEY ALSO TOLD ME THE GY2 WAS WORTH MORE MONEY AND I SHOULD BE GIVING THEM MONEY BACK FOR THE DIFFERENCE IN PRICE.

YOU DO NOT KNOW THE WHOLE STORY SO DON'T SPECULATE LIKE YOU DO.

All I want now is the title and bill of sale that they say don't exist, thats more important to me right now as im using it for a d/d now that the weather is nice and need to register it.

[kczukiman]

I will say this and I will not post any more about it.Youhad them where you needed to but you didn't take advantage of it.If you would have let them take the bike you would have had a copy of the bill of laiden wich prooved you sent the bike back.Then all you had to do was to file a dispute with the credit card company.You would have gotten all your money back by now it takes less then two weeks.
Plenty of people gave you that advice.You opted not to do that for what ever reason now your in a bigger pickle.They have you by the B_lls .

[frostbite]

If there was a guarantee that ATV Discounter would honour their part of the agreement with respect to shipping the bike back, then it makes sense. However, in Porter's position I may have made the same choice.

Better a bird in the hand than 2 in the bush.

I've been through conflict resolution with E-Bay. It sucks and can take forever. They basically act as a disinterested intermediary as you fight it out with the vendor. Even if you fulfilled your part of the transaction the vendor can still retaliate with bad feedback (this is soon to change though).

If the vendor doesn't want to play ball you can very easily walk away with nothing. E-Bay price protection? It's a joke. I made a claim once on a $200 transaction. E-Bay/Paypal would only guarantee me $40 and that's if all other avenues failed. It took me 3 months to get my money back from the vendor, and that's because the vendor finally had a change of conscience. I believe most people eventually give up after getting tired of the waiting and lies.

I can't speak for Visa's charge back policy. However, I suspect if the vendor has already received their money this may prove difficult.

[SpeedSouth]

YOU WOULD NOT SEND YOUR BIKE BACK IF YOU KNEW YOU WERE NOT GUARANTEED YOUR MONEY BACK.

YOU DO NOT KNOW THE WHOLE STORY SO DON'T SPECULATE LIKE YOU DO.

Considering my previous post, I have reason to assume that was directed at me, so I'll gladly respond.

First, read my post again. I said "I believe"...which means there is a chance I would not have done that, had I been in your situation. I purposely crafted my statement that way because I don't know for sure what I would have done. I only think I know what I would have done. Do you understand the differnce?

As for knowing the whole story...I believe I know enough to have made a different decision. I believe I would have made sure I had proof I had returned the bike (or at least made the effort by turning it over to the shipping company) and given that proof to my CC company for a full refund.

Do you really think the cc company needs the green light from the vendor to refund your money after you returned the product? If that were the case, nobody would ever get a refund because the vendors would never approve one. The cc company is there to work on your behalf. If you choose to ignore that fact, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

And finally, caps lock doesn't make your point any more correct or valid. We offered help and advice which you opted to ignore. Go look in the mirror and yell at yourself.

[SpeedSouth]

I can't speak for Visa's charge back policy. However, I suspect if the vendor has already received their money this may prove difficult.

Unless it has changed recently, they are VERY liberal in their chargeback policy. I haven't seen it lately, but they even ran commercials on TV that basically said they'd refund your money with no questions asked.

I know because I was working w/ several online vedors at the time who were being hit hard w/ chargebacks for valid sales, and the cc comapanies always sided w/ the customers. The vendors were being hit really hard w/ chargeback fees and various other problems that all revolved around false chargebacks.

And I may be wrong here, but if they will side w/ customers on false chargebacks, then they would surely side w/ Portez here if he had proof he had sent the bike back.

But hey....it's not like I really care. :)

[kczukiman]

As I said the credit card company would have refunded not ebay,not paypal.Those avenues of recourse are basicaly a joke their interest is with the seller thats where their money is.The credit card company works for your intrest.I know I just had to do it in January for 350. on scan mp3 players on ebay.Both paypal and ebay are jokes when it comes to a dispute.I'll say it again for the final time I promise,{ the credit card company would have gotten your money back.}

[frostbite]

...but they even ran commercials on TV that basically said they'd refund your money with no questions asked.



Then it must be true! :lol:

I would hope the Visa protects their clients. Fortunately I've never had things get that far outta hand to require a charge back.

[culcune]

I still side with Porterz's view on this; he never had anything to prove that they would return his money, even after picking up the bike. He mentioned that one guy he contacted had the same situation, and no refund after a month.

Porterz also had to put up with ATV not contacting him--as if they were trying to hide from him.

After all was said and done, including the truck showing up early, not at Porterz's convenience, they tried to defend themselves by saying he had a more expensive bike (not that they were trying to get more money out of him, but trying to make a point to him)--which we know as not true!

I think that if anything, ATV Disclaimers should provide Porterz with a streetable rear sprocket and his bill of sale/MSO so he can obtain his plate for the street. If he never gets the paperwork, he needs to reopen his case against them (the GY-5 is DOT approved for 49 states while the GY-2 is not, again, not what they advertised).

[kczukiman]

...but they even ran commercials on TV that basically said they'd refund your money with no questions asked.



Then it must be true! :lol:

I would hope the Visa protects their clients. Fortunately I've never had things get that far outta hand to require a charge back.

No,but PorterzCustomz did......... Ok I'm done really promise this time :wink:

[bronevaya]

the way this is all playing out I am willing to bet the card was a debit/credit card deal.

A real, actual credit card you make monthly payments to will resolve the problem in no time. as a matter of fact I had to do it and my bank told me "we will have an answer for you within 24 hours"

even if the transaction had already went through, you still havent paid for it to the credit card company

[PorterzCustomz]

I will say this and I will not post any more about it.Youhad them where you needed to but you didn't take advantage of it.If you would have let them take the bike you would have had a copy of the bill of laiden wich prooved you sent the bike back.Then all you had to do was to file a dispute with the credit card company.You would have gotten all your money back by now it takes less then two weeks.
Plenty of people gave you that advice.You opted not to do that for what ever reason now your in a bigger pickle.They have you by the B_lls .

thats where your wrong I called the credit card company they said it could take up to 4 months.

[bronevaya]

I will say this and I will not post any more about it.Youhad them where you needed to but you didn't take advantage of it.If you would have let them take the bike you would have had a copy of the bill of laiden wich prooved you sent the bike back.Then all you had to do was to file a dispute with the credit card company.You would have gotten all your money back by now it takes less then two weeks.
Plenty of people gave you that advice.You opted not to do that for what ever reason now your in a bigger pickle.They have you by the B_lls .

thats where your wrong I called the credit card company they said it could take up to 4 months.

well Ill be sure to stay away from visa in the future. 4 months is ridiculous!! What about the payments in those four months? did they tell you how it was going to work out?

with me they told me that as soon as I disputed the charge that I had no obligation to pay it until the issue had been resolved. they even went as far as to take the charge off completely until they figured it out.

[kczukiman]

I will say this and I will not post any more about it.Youhad them where you needed to but you didn't take advantage of it.If you would have let them take the bike you would have had a copy of the bill of laiden wich prooved you sent the bike back.Then all you had to do was to file a dispute with the credit card company.You would have gotten all your money back by now it takes less then two weeks.
Plenty of people gave you that advice.You opted not to do that for what ever reason now your in a bigger pickle.They have you by the B_lls .

thats where your wrong I called the credit card company they said it could take up to 4 months.

I used mastercard Platinum.They must love me.I had no hastles at all.Four months?Dang are you a credit risk? :wink:

[kczukiman]

Just for the record that last post was a joke!!!

[culcune]

Just for the record that last post was a joke!!!

You are like 5 posts over when you said it would be your last!!! I am counting, BTW...


:lol: :lol:

[kczukiman]

[quote=kczukiman]Just for the record that last post was a joke!!!

You are like 5 posts over when you said it would be your last!!! I am counting, BTW...


:lol: :lol:[/quote
I guess I'm politician material. :wink: ( Flip Flop ) lol

Call there cell phones and bug them till they give you what you want. You could call american lifan in dallas and tell them you need the title atv discounter get's it from them.
Cell phone numbers for the owners of atv discounters.

817-819-8136
817-819-8137

[PorterzCustomz]

I just got an email from a member on here that I need to share with all of you. He is going through a legal dispute with them right now so he wishes to remain anonymous as this is a popular thread. I have FW the email to frostbite and he can vouch for the legitimacy of the email wile keeping the members identity secret. He recently worked for them and he lives in the area. He writes:

From: XXXXXXXXX
To: PorterzCustomz
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:43 am
Subject: ATV Discounter Glen Barling

Quote message

Call the owner of ATV Discounter on his cell phone and tell him to stop cheating people out of the bike they want i use to work there and he has been doing the same thing he did to you to many others. The owner of american lifan gave him a smokin deal if he would buy all the gy-2's he had in stock so he did and then he bought 1 gy-5 and took pictures so people think they are getting the 5 and he sends them the 2. Here is his cell phone number xxx-xxx-xxxx and his wife (billing dept) xxx-xxx-xxxx

************************************************** *********

DON"T FALL FOR THE SCAM, DON'T BUY FROM THEM AND MAKE SURE TO WARN OTHERS NOT TO!! IT IS YOUR RESPONCEABILITY AS A MEMBER.

-Eric

[culcune]

It is a bait and switch. If this anonymous guy will testify, a whole group of you could have class action lawsuit--I don't know seriously Texas takes false advertising, but this is definitely a case of it! The GY-5 and the GY-2 are two different bikes. I would be pissed off ordering a GY-5 and getting a GY-2 shipped to my house.


And to think that ATVdiscounters tried to insinuate that you were getting a more expensive/better bike!!

[SpeedSouth]

I wonder if any of their local news teams would be interested in investigating the story.

Tonight at 11 - "Local Business Caught Running Scam!"

It might take a bit of luck, and maybe some leg work to give them a jump on the story....but it may prove effective at getting them shut down.

Just a thought. 8)

[PorterzCustomz]

Not just insinuate they came out and told me that in the end. And no I think you misunderstood the message, AL is not in on the scam they just sold to ATV D thinking that ATV D would advertise and sell them for what they are GY2's. Thats why they gave them such a cheap price because they were older bikes that they wanted to clear out for the new ones ya know?

- Eric

[Jim]

I wonder if American Lifan is in on it, too? They don't seem to be helping the case, either, so even if they are (supposedly) unaware, they are still part of the problem by not taking care of the customers (besides the infamous letter--but at least those people who were ordering from "non-authorized" places were getting a GY-5 model!)

And to think that ATVdiscounters tried to insinuate that you were getting a more expensive/better bike!!

What do they even have to do with it? So what if that is where atv scammers bought the bikes wholesale... this scam has nothing to do with them.

[Jim]

Portez, I posted this in another thread, http://chinariders.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3816

Found this reading the usage policies on another website (freewebs), thought it might be useful to some people here.

Deceptive Business Practices

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) handles complaints about deceptive or unfair business practices. To file a complaint, visit: http://www.ftc.gov/ and click on "File a Complaint Online," call 1-877-FTC-HELP, or write to:

Federal Trade Commission
CRC-240
Washington, D.C. 20580

If your complaint is against a company in another country, please file it at http://www.econsumer.gov/.

Maybe you, and the apparent former employee could contact these people...

[americanlifan]

culcune, You are wrong to assume that we are in on this situation. Do you see SUNL or Roketa anywhere in our brand name? We have nothing to do with retail sales.

On a side note ATVD also has no factory warranty on their vehicles. These were units that were sitting at the back of our warehouse that we had no use for. The GY-2 model has been discontinued for a handful of reasons.

Shawn

[culcune]

Shawn, I was wrong to mention it (I edited it out). However, they should not be allowed to mail order your product anymore

[AZ200cc]

culcune, You are wrong to assume that we are in on this situation. Do you see SUNL or Roketa anywhere in our brand name? We have nothing to do with retail sales.

On a side note ATVD also has no factory warranty on their vehicles. These were units that were sitting at the back of our warehouse that we had no use for. The GY-2 model has been discontinued for a handful of reasons.

Shawn

Not trying to get You to pick side, But I am curious what You think of this situation......And do You feel actions like what this company has done shine a bad light on the image that American Lifan is trying to build?

[culcune]

culcune, You are wrong to assume that we are in on this situation. Do you see SUNL or Roketa anywhere in our brand name? We have nothing to do with retail sales.

On a side note ATVD also has no factory warranty on their vehicles. These were units that were sitting at the back of our warehouse that we had no use for. The GY-2 model has been discontinued for a handful of reasons.

Shawn

I was wrong to lump you guys into this ebay scammer, or insinuate this. You mention that there is no factory warranty on these bikes, yet they still have this ad on Ebay, including the insinuation that the bike is warranted through A. Lifan:

All other parts are fully covered from any factory defects for 90 days.

Yes! We take pride in every unit we sell, so ATVDiscounter offers a 12-month engine warranty on all units. Our competitors will try to charge you for a 12-month engine warranty, but why should you pay for a warranty that the dealers receive for free?

In the first quote, they really don't say who is covering the warranty, but in the second quote, they really seem to be saying that A. Lifan is covering the warranty.

BTW, this ad is still on ebay (I pulled the quotes right from there right now)

Porterz, someone still owes you a new battery, too, according to their shipping policy:

ATVDiscounter offers complimentary freight insurance for all deliveries on every product we sell. If any product is damaged in any way, we will send you a replacement part right away. We handle all shipping damage claims for you, while our competitors make you handle it yourself.

[americanlifan]

Well, We cannot really do anything about the way they do business.... but we can stop their supply. I'm not sure how they get off on doing this to people but it is really irritating!

[kczukiman]

Something interesting to me.Would ford or any other car maker sell to honest johns used cars on the corner ? Why wouldn't those bikes sell to established good Lifan dealers at a good price?I don't know how many dealers there are in this country,but wouldn't it be a good way to say thanks for being a dealer for A.L?
I said it once and I'll say it again no disrespect intended but the bottem line comes down to $$$$$ not Devotion.

[americanlifan]

We honestly sold those bikes wish the intention of them selling them as "offroad only" That particular unit was never built for highway use and developed viberation issues when an in-experienced rider would ride while sitting on the red line for long periods of time.

We figured that we would take a loss on the bikes just to clear up all the extra warehouse space that we could. We never intended for them to sell online but to sell locally in the Dallas metroplex. Now that we know what type of characters these people are I'm fairly sure we will not continue to do business with them.

Shawn

[almonpoole]

Well, We cannot really do anything about the way they do business.... but we can stop their supply. I'm not sure how they get off on doing this to people but it is really irritating!

I agree, if this is not an American Lifan dealer it is not an American Lifan problem. American Lifan has the right to sell to whoever they wish to, this is an ATVD problem. It is ATVD who is being misleading here.

Almon

[culcune]

Well, We cannot really do anything about the way they do business.... but we can stop their supply. I'm not sure how they get off on doing this to people but it is really irritating!

I agree, if this is not an American Lifan dealer it is not an American Lifan problem. American Lifan has the right to sell to whoever they wish to, this is an ATVD problem. It is ATVD who is being misleading here.

Almon

It is an A. Lifan problem because ATV Disc. are insinuating that there is a factory warranty with these bikes (No, not directly A. Lifan problem, but ATV Disc. has/is/will continue to (potentially) giving them BAD P.R)

[AZ200cc]

We honestly sold those bikes wish the intention of them selling them as "offroad only" That particular unit was never built for highway use and developed viberation issues when an in-experienced rider would ride while sitting on the red line for long periods of time.

We figured that we would take a loss on the bikes just to clear up all the extra warehouse space that we could. We never intended for them to sell online but to sell locally in the Dallas metroplex. Now that we know what type of characters these people are I'm fairly sure we will not continue to do business with them.

Shawn

You share none of the blame on this, But at least now You know what kind of company they are and that will help You from getting wrapped up with them again. A good reputation is hard to build.....But very easy to tear down.

[americanlifan]

Culcune,

Tomarrow morning I will give their main office a call in and see if they will take the warranty statement off their site/ads. if they do not conform i will be writing a letter to the state in order to remove our line make from their dealers license.

Shawn

[culcune]

You should have them take the GY-5 photos down, too, IMO, if they aren't sending that bike.

[Jim]

They don't run atv discounters? Why don't you file a claim with the FTC?

[ATVDiscounter]

Anytime you work in a large volume industry there are always possibilities that errors will occur. We have sold over 30,000 units worldwide and we have had our share of growing pains. We attempt to handle any issue as promptly and professionally as possible.
This particular issue is an interesting case. The client notified us of our shipping mistake. We informed him of our shipping policy, and told him that once the freight truck driver confirmed pickup of the mistakenly shipped unit, we would send him the correct unit. He said that would be fine. We then scheduled the unit for pickup, but once the truck arrived he outright refused to put the bike on the truck.

I am not exactly sure of his motivation, but he was unwilling to work with us on fixing the issue. We explained to him that we once the freight company confirmed it was on the truck, we would expedite him his order. We offered monetary discounts, extended warranties and several other items because we acknowledged we had sent the wrong unit. All he had to do was allow the freight company to pick up the wrong unit and this would all have been fixed.

If you buy a defective item from a store, they are not going to give you your money back until you bring them the item. We were accepting full responsibility for the error and were trying to work with this customer on it, but he refused. We then offered a full refund of the purchase to him. He said he would not trust us to refund the money so he was just going to keep the unit.

There was no malice or ill intent on sending on the wrong Lifan. We had both in inventory and our procurement department sent the wrong unit. We tried countless times to fix the situation, but this particular client seemed unwilling to want to fix it.

I typically avoid posting on boards. We have fans of our company and we have people who don't like us. This can be said about every company in the world. I felt this particular issue needed to be addressed because I was involved personally with this client.

We stand by every purchase from our company and do our best to satisfy our clients. If you ever have any issues or questions about ATVDiscounter.com please feel free to contact me personally @ nathan.barling@atvdiscounter.com or 817.717.7013. I will gladly discuss anything about the company or personally assist in resolving any issues you have with a purchase.

[AZ200cc]

Anytime you work in a large volume industry there are always possibilities that errors will occur. We have sold over 30,000 units worldwide and we have had our share of growing pains. We attempt to handle any issue as promptly and professionally as possible.
This particular issue is an interesting case. The client notified us of our shipping mistake. We informed him of our shipping policy, and told him that once the freight truck driver confirmed pickup of the mistakenly shipped unit, we would send him the correct unit. He said that would be fine. We then scheduled the unit for pickup, but once the truck arrived he outright refused to put the bike on the truck.

I am not exactly sure of his motivation, but he was unwilling to work with us on fixing the issue. We explained to him that we once the freight company confirmed it was on the truck, we would expedite him his order. We offered monetary discounts, extended warranties and several other items because we acknowledged we had sent the wrong unit. All he had to do was allow the freight company to pick up the wrong unit and this would all have been fixed.

If you buy a defective item from a store, they are not going to give you your money back until you bring them the item. We were accepting full responsibility for the error and were trying to work with this customer on it, but he refused. We then offered a full refund of the purchase to him. He said he would not trust us to refund the money so he was just going to keep the unit.

There was no malice or ill intent on sending on the wrong Lifan. We had both in inventory and our procurement department sent the wrong unit. We tried countless times to fix the situation, but this particular client seemed unwilling to want to fix it.

I typically avoid posting on boards. We have fans of our company and we have people who don't like us. This can be said about every company in the world. I felt this particular issue needed to be addressed because I was involved personally with this client.

We stand by every purchase from our company and do our best to satisfy our clients. If you ever have any issues or questions about ATVDiscounter.com please feel free to contact me personally @ nathan.barling@atvdiscounter.com or 817.717.7013. I will gladly discuss anything about the company or personally assist in resolving any issues you have with a purchase.

I for one am glad You posted a response, Not sure why You would avoid this site. It is pro Chinese bikes and has some very nice people ans new customers come here for advice and to ask dealers questions. With that said You did not address some of the issues that were brought up about Your company
You have a very bad rating with the BBB,

You have a lot of the same type of complaints on Ebay, and The ones who complain seem to get attacked for doing so,

Your office help seems impossible to get hold of when problems arise,

You were not as nice in Your email repies to this customer as You have been in this post.

Do You have the correct GY5 in stock?

I agree he should have sent the bike back and made this entire fiasco worse by hanging onto it...You did attempt that and were stopped. But some of this seems awful suspicious to me. Maybe You can clear more up for us.

[ATVDiscounter]

The popularity of the Lifan lines have grown so they are easily becoming our most popular units. We should have all of our Lifan fully in stock again in a week or two. You can check our site for more details.


As for the china riders website...

I was only recently turned onto the website from one of our customers. I have been extremely impressed with the knowledge and activity in the community. It is sites such as this that will help legitimize the Chinese Powersports industry in the mainstream. I will do my best to read the site every few days and offer my input when applicable.

I will also start posting some prototype units that are upcoming from China so I can start gathering some industry feedback.

Again if you ever have any questions about ATVDiscounter.com or have any issues, please do not hesitate to contact me personally at nathan.barling@atvdiscounter.com.

Also, if you are not treated in a professional manner by any employee of ATVDiscounter please notify me immediately so I can follow-up and fix the problem.

[knothead]

Nathan,

While I have been critical of your company in this and related threads, I am glad to hear your side. It's very easy to expect the worst from China bike sellers, there have simply been too many whose only interest is turning a dollar and have no regard for the customer at all. I guess that's what we all expect and when a member here said they got a bum deal, most of us just happily jumped on the band wagon.
I can only speak for myself, but if I have been wrong I won't hesitate to apologize.

[AZ200cc]

Agreed, It helps that You posted Your side of the fiasco. Both parties were wrong in certain areas and it would appear it could have been resolved. With all this info it should mean that we should not hear many more if any complaints about Your company because of all the additions You are making. Stick around also, This site is as good for dealers as it is for riders.

[mrhyak]

With this particular issue, Porterz has only himself to blame for not allowing the problem to be rectified. Looking at BBB and Ebay feedback there does seem to be a bad trend but the feedback is much more to the positive side then negative. I do hate to see sellers that use feedback at a way to attack buyers who leave neg (retaliation).. In this instance though, ATVD did follow through with trying to resolve the problem and the buyer did not allow them to do so.....

ATV-D, maybe you would clear up a question many here had..... How did you get ahold of American Lifan motorcycles? Are you an approved dealer of AF bikes? Just curious....

[ATVDiscounter]

We are licensed to sell a lot of different chinese manufacturered units including Lifan.

I can't promise to check this board daily, but I will do my best. If you have any direct questions about I can always be reached at nathan.barling@atvdiscounter.com.

[iMoose]

Don't you use a bonded shipping company? Why wouldn't the truck driver be just the same as your front door?

How would he have been able to take possesion of the bike he was supposed to have recieved WITHOUT returning the older incorrect model you sent him at the same time?

Why must the customer wait/endure/trust you, for your admitted mistake?

If your "name" is at stake, what's the chance involved with sending out 1 out of 30,000 bikes? Trucking company no good?

Why would you not immediately jump on this and make it right WITHOUT saying negative things about this customer to ebay? You already had his money. He has youth for an excuse, you are a business.

I will be amazed about a real response to each of these questions.
And I'm sure others that had considered your company, will also be quite interested.

[knothead]

I also have to agree with others here when they question the way things were handled when Porterz informed them they shipped the wrong bike. Instead of claiming the GY-2 was a more expensive bike, they should have went out of their way to fix it after they confirmed that it was in fact wrong.
I think that's one of the biggest things that threw up a red flag.

[culcune]

I think that's one of the biggest things that threw up a red flag.

For me, it was the Ebay ad that showed the GY-5 model. Then, when Shawn mentioned they sold a load of GY-2's to clear out inventory, and the fact that Porterz had gotten one of the GY-2's, and no one was returning his call for several days! Then, they would not guarantee him a refund in writing for their wrong, or bring the GY-5 at the same time they came to pick up the bike--many red flags before accusing Porterz of not returning the bike.

[SpeedSouth]

For me, it was the Ebay ad that showed the GY-5 model. Then, when Shawn mentioned they sold a load of GY-2's to clear out inventory, and the fact that Porterz had gotten one of the GY-2's, and no one was returning his call for several days! Then, they would not guarantee him a refund in writing for their wrong, or bring the GY-5 at the same time they came to pick up the bike--many red flags before accusing Porterz of not returning the bike.

Don't forget the ebay feedback, the ripoff report (and BBB?) and posts on other forums with similar problems/hassles/results.

Like others have said, there are a lot aspects to the situation that caused concern. I will say that it is nice to see the posts here from ATVD. Only time will tell of what was said was really meant and will be followed through with, but it's a nice start IMO.

My opinion of this one situation in peticular, is that the truth lay somewhere in the middle. I'm still not sure we've been privy to all the facts, but such is usually the case. I do think we have enough information to form an accurate opinion overall, of both the seller and the buyer.


Best of luck to both parties in the future. :D

[culcune]

Like I said...I don't think I would mail order from them, but if they were close to me, and I could make a deal for a product I could see and touch, or needed a part (again, in person), I would still stop by. Mail ordering still makes me weary, no matter the vendor (although VBikes seems to be on the up and up).

[katoranger]

I don't mind mail ordering from places that have been recommended and are known to have good service.

Buying from ATVD in person may be fine. You know what you will be getting.

Allen

[ATVDiscounter]

To address a few posters.. We offered the client a full refund via email multiple times. We stated we would do a full chargeback of this credit card once the unit was picked up from the freight company. The freight company issues a pickup receipt that shows the sender and the destination along with the package. There is no need to "trust", because the email + the receipt is all the person would need. This particular client did not want a chargeback.


Don't you use a bonded shipping company? Why wouldn't the truck driver be just the same as your front door? Yes, we use bonded freight companies. We were willing to send the unit once the truck driver had possession.

Why must the customer wait/endure/trust you, for your admitted mistake?

We offered to send the correct bike, the instant the mistakenly shipped unit was on the truck. Our policy has to be strict because there are less than scrupulous people that have taken advantage of situations like these in the past. People claiming we sent the wrong unit even though it was the correct one, claiming units were damaged beyond repair that actually had no damage, claiming the freight crate was mislabeled, and tons of other reasons. We then quickly send out a new unit and only to never receive the original unit back. I assure you this isn't a case of 1 in 30,000. The anonymity of the internet allows for many people to behave in a manner they typically would not do anywhere else.

We certainly don't expect the worst from people. Our policy is NOT to wait until the original unit is actually delivered back to our store and then fully inspected by our staff before sending the correct unit. This is the policy of a lot of online businesses. We just need a confirmation from the driver that a unit is picked up before the next unit is delivered.

Why would you not immediately jump on this and make it right WITHOUT saying negative things about this customer to eBay? You already had his money. He has youth for an excuse, you are a business.
I will not go into the specifics around this particular client, but I assure you all professional attempts were made to assist this client. After repeated attempts via phone calls and emails to fix the problem, we were unable to come to a agreed upon solution. All attempts were made prior to leaving any sort of feedback on the client.

As stated before, I wish this could have ended better for both parties. I never like losing a customer. I do honestly believe all reasonable attempts were made to satisfy the customer, but sadly none were satisfactory.

Please note, we have one of the highest customer satisfaction rates in the industry, in addition to being one of the largest online ATV dealers in North America. I only wish that every satisfied customer would come online and post, but sadly it is only the occasional unhappy ones that do, but such is the nature of the internet. There will be times when issues arise in any business, but it is up to both parties to be mature, reasonable, and professional about the situation so a common solution can be found.

If you have any further comments or questions, please do not hesitate to contact me @ nathan.barling@atvdiscounter.net.

[PorterzCustomz]

wow.. this is too funny.. I just noticed that you signed up.. This is good though, maybe we can finally deal with this in a courtroom type setting?

So I guess your buddie " motohillbilly " did not get his new bike from your store, why do you think that is? Hmm.. maybe because you don't really sell GY'5? You can't deny that you put ads up for them, everyone on here saw them.

I made payment, then 3-4 days after you filed a non payment strike against me with ebay then later on after I get the wrong bike you follow up with this threat..

"WE ARE THE NUMBER #1 ON THE INTERNET
AND WE DO NOT APPRECIATE YOU PUTTING UNTRUTHFUL STATEMENTS ABOUT US AND IF YOU CONTINUE THIS WE WILL
CONTACT OUR LEGAL DEPARTMENT"

You told me that all of the customers that file reports against you are "crazy" Do you have a habit of putting your customers down like this?


LETS LOOK AT THE EMAIL'S YOUR WIFE SENT ME

" Eric I spoke with our shipping dept. about this bike and was told that it is
manufactured at the same time,so saying it is a 2006 is incorrect, that the
only difference in this bike are the brakes, the color and it is shaped a
little different but as far as expense goes this is actually a more expensive bike but I wasn't even going to go into with you because you have been impossible to deal with."

I am done

"Eric
you are way too much trouble and unreasonable. Dirt bikes do not have to
have titles. So we have a bill of sale,this is the last conversation I will have with you. Have a nice life."


"I have not received one single message from you since I spoke with you
Friday. I can not say anything about the other departments. It isn't
our company who can not arrange a pick up deliver at the same time. The
freight companies have to empty there trucks in the morning and pick up in the evening. They don't work where the drive around all day picking up
and delivering at the same time. They don't work that way. I wish they did
it would make my life easier."


"Yes we may have 31 complaints against us with the BBB due to the
fact we sell to over a million consumers. I would say 31 to a million isn't
too bad."

I can forward the emails if anyone wants a copy to voch for the authenticity.


PS: I need a new battery, as seen in the fist picture I sent you, the acid had leaked out therefore it was un-useable. I am tired of using the kick starter!! Make sure if you send one you have a tracking number.

PSS: Thanks for coming on here, lets see what we can do to make this right.

Thanks!! - Porterz

[culcune]

I am sure the GY-2 and the GY-5 are very comparable; however, the GY-2 clearly states that it is an off-road machine. The GY-5 is a 49-state DOT street legal bike. This could have been a big factor for some people in certain states that won't register "off-road" bikes despite having all street equipment.

The GY-2 also has the 56 t rear sprocket, while the GY-5 has the 46 t rear; far more usable from stock.

The year clearly stated 2006 on the bike, while the ad stated 2008--big difference!

Porterz had posted a trade ad here to try to trade the stock GY-2 tires with more streetable tires.

In my opinion, Porterz would have been better off ordering his GY-2 for the same price $1299 from Hooper Imports, as his already have the 46 t sprocket, and street tires.

Again, if I lived in the area, I would not hesitate to see any of your stores in person--but I would hesitate to mail order from you.

[PorterzCustomz]

I am sure the GY-2 and the GY-5 are very comparable; however, the GY-2 clearly states that it is an off-road machine. The GY-5 is a 49-state DOT street legal bike. This could have been a big factor for some people in certain states that won't register "off-road" bikes despite having all street equipment.

No way... You have me VERY worried.. I live in CT if I cannot get this reg IDK what I will do.... I bought it for a spring/summer d/d for gas economy instead of buying a second more gas friendly cheap car.

[kczukiman]

If you can't get it licensed you could always unload it on here :!:

http://newlondon.craigslist.org/

[TeamCheap]

katoranger wrote:
Buying from ATVD in person may be fine. You know what you will be getting.
Yeah but they are working on that too.
They plan to load the bait bike on your truck/trailer then distract you and do the switch.

They'll probably use the old free cycle cover and thats how you wont notice until you get it home.

[culcune]

No way... You have me VERY worried.. I live in CT if I cannot get this reg IDK what I will do.... I bought it for a spring/summer d/d for gas economy instead of buying a second more gas friendly cheap car.

I always say (mostly) not to quote me, and I really do not know CT laws, but the GY-5 is 49 state DOT approved/do not know if the GY-2 is, and/or how strict CT is (I know I could get a GY-2 registered in AZ) so you might have some hassle, or maybe not. Post in the registration area, and visit your DMV in person, with MSO/bill of sale (that is where pretty much every state registration begins), and see what is needed. It might go easy, and they just want to see the bike for an inspection...

[PorterzCustomz]

katoranger wrote:
Buying from ATVD in person may be fine. You know what you will be getting.
Yeah but they are working on that too.
They plan to load the bait bike on your truck/trailer then distract you and do the switch.

They'll probably use the old free cycle cover and thats how you wont notice until you get it home.

L M F A O!!!!!!!! :lol:

Good luck, you only have a taillight warantee and even then its been said that a member on here to "back the parts guy into a corner" to get a light cover.

[frostbite]

This thread is locked, please continue the discussion in the '..Really Screwed' thread.