Kayo T4 goes to 11

[culcune]

Well, the Kayo dirt bikes are finally released, and it appears that the mid-range dual-sport, the T4, has a 6-speed transmission. From what I understand and has been discussed here before, Kayo is, or might be, the OEM for some of Pitster Pro's bikes, so these should be the 'real deal' as far as high quality and very uncomfortable seats go :tup: It will only be a matter of time before someone gets one, joins us, discusses it a bit, and then disappears, like our Pitster XTR 250 members :lmao:

https://www.ridekayo.com/t4-250

[franque]

They must be smoking something with those prices. GPX was selling for cheaper, with better specced stuff. Just the XTR 250 (which I'm pretty sure is the Kayo T4) is $400 cheaper. The FSE250E (which I think is made by another company IIRC), which is specced with better components than the T4, which it would compete with, is the same price! It's also based out of Carrolton, TX, which is in the DFW metroplex, so I wonder if Manny is involved.

[alex_in_az]

Well, the Kayo dual-sports are finally released, and it appears that the mid-range dual-sport, the T4, has a 6-speed transmission. From what I understand and has been discussed here before, Kayo is, or might be, the OEM for some of Pitster Pro's bikes, so these should be the 'real deal' as far as high quality and very uncomfortable seats go :tup: It will only be a matter of time before someone gets one, joins us, discusses it a bit, and then disappears, like our Pitster XTR 250 members :lmao:

https://www.ridekayo.com/t4-250
Looks good,but I'd drop another $1k and get a crf230 if I was spending that kind of cash

[culcune]

I checked TXPowersports, and there are no listings for Kayo products, which is a good thing! I started the thread to show that there is now a 6-speed enduro/dual-sport available. As far as MSRP goes, I am guessing one would be able to get them less than the listed price. However, Turbopowersports in So. Cal. has the K6-R advertised at the MSRP price. I would prefer Pitster's FSE250E in that class of bike because it comes with all the street-legal stuff on it since I live in AZ and it would be easy to register here. As far as the Pitster XTR vs. the Kayo T4, I am fairly certain I would stick with the tried and true Pitster, but do admit I am intrigued by the 6-speed in the Kayo. There are a couple of Kayo videos from Nepal, which added to my interest, LOL, but could not find much from western countries.

[franque]

Looks good,but I'd drop another $1k and get a crf230 if I was spending that kind of cash

I'd be inclined to agree with you, except for the bottom bucket, outdated components Honda is using on them. The suspension, for example, was outdated when they released those bikes in '03, and it hasn't been updated/improved. If they're using Fastace/SCZ suspension, it's a huge step up from what's on offer from Honda.

[Megadan]

What you get from Honda would be the build quality. I do agree that the CRF230 is a budget bike with budget parts, but they are well built budget parts on a bike with such a long history that parts are cheap and plentiful. The downside is, the 230 also does not come as a dual sport.

In my opinion, if you are heart set on getting a Honda, you may as well get the next step up for only another $700, which would be a CRF250L. You get proper suspension, a few more horsepower, efi, etc. on a properly street legal dual sport.

Sure, that's a big price jump over the Kayo as listed above, but no offense, it's worth it if a proper dual sport is your thing. That said, if off road shenanigans are more what you are after and could give a fart less about anything else, the Kayo would be a great bike to beat up on in the dirt.

[Megadan]

Well, the Kayo dirt bikes are finally released, and it appears that the mid-range dual-sport, the T4, has a 6-speed transmission. From what I understand and has been discussed here before, Kayo is, or might be, the OEM for some of Pitster Pro's bikes, so these should be the 'real deal' as far as high quality and very uncomfortable seats go :tup: It will only be a matter of time before someone gets one, joins us, discusses it a bit, and then disappears, like our Pitster XTR 250 members :lmao:

https://www.ridekayo.com/t4-250

Funny thing is, I remember when the XTR 250 LC 21/18 was a bargain of a bike at $2600 just a couple of years ago. Now Pitster is asking $3099, and I don't believe it has Fast Ace hardware anymore. Most of their bikes now come with suspension from another company. Still adjustable and long travel though.

You are right about one thing, the few people that did buy the XTR sure never did stick around much. Probably out having too much fun.

I think, for my money, I would take the Orion RXB-250L over the XTR 250. I've seen how capable that bike is with just a little effort thrown in the suspension setup.

[franque]

The XTRs are leftover models, I'm fairly certain. They're transferring the business over to the FSE/TSE stuff. I'm sure the XTRs still have Fastace components, because when they switched to SZC, it was for their FSE/TSE lines. They made the switch because of the unconventional disassembly process for the Fastace forks, which involves unscrewing the lug from the stanchions. The SZC is a step up from what I've heard from those who've had both apart.

I think the Orion (which almost looks like it might be a Kayo) is a step up from the CRF230 in terms of capability, though I'm not sure I'd agree about the 250L; it's more of a lateral step. It does have USD forks, but they're completely non-adjustable, and the bike itself is a bit of a pig. It's definitely reliable, I put over 10k miles on one, but they're ~320lbs wet. I think most of the people riding them stay on the road, the suspension isn't good for much else, even if long travel.

[Megadan]

I'm not sure I'd agree about the 250L; it's more of a lateral step. It does have USD forks, but they're completely non-adjustable, and the bike itself is a bit of a pig. It's definitely reliable, I put over 10k miles on one, but they're ~320lbs wet. I think most of the people riding them stay on the road, the suspension isn't good for much else, even if long travel.

That is why I made the distinction between a Dual Sport and the other being a better off road machine. The 250L is plenty capable once you take the time to get the suspension sorted. It suffers from the same thing all Honda bikes do, under sprung and under damped. Honda has a bad habit of that. Sure, it's not adjustable, but once you have a suspension setup dialed in, that usually is a moot point. My VFR's front suspension has limited adjustability, but with the valving and shim stack setup how it should be for me, I never touch the adjustments lol.

[NzBrakelathes]

Well, the Kayo dirt bikes are finally released, and it appears that the mid-range dual-sport, the T4, has a 6-speed transmission. From what I understand and has been discussed here before, Kayo is, or might be, the OEM for some of Pitster Pro's bikes, so these should be the 'real deal' as far as high quality and very uncomfortable seats go :tup: It will only be a matter of time before someone gets one, joins us, discusses it a bit, and then disappears, like our Pitster XTR 250 members :lmao:

https://www.ridekayo.com/t4-250

Must be the RE250 engine - Kayo here in China isn't useing anything too stunning in their air cooled range like the 4 valve 249.9cc or the 249.9cc 6 speed balance shaft engine

[4x4Dragon]

Just test drove a Kayo T4 yesterday.....really wanting to love the bike but it's actually now listed as a 230(223cc), does not have the kickstart, is 'down on power' according to the Kayo rep i spoke with due to being CARB/CA compliant, and the biggest kicker for me does NOT have a functioning fuel gauge. :(

[2LZ]

Just test drove a Kayo T4 yesterday.....really wanting to love the bike but it's actually now listed as a 230(223cc), does not have the kickstart, is 'down on power' according to the Kayo rep i spoke with due to being CARB/CA compliant, and the biggest kicker for me does NOT have a functioning fuel gauge. :(
WHAT!? CARB Compliant????? For the street or just green sticker???

This is the CB motor, right? I wonder if the CRF230 cams, etc....would work in it?

[franque]

Should be possible! If it's CARB compliant, that changes the equation for some!

[4x4Dragon]

WHAT!? CARB Compliant????? For the street or just green sticker???

This is the CB motor, right? I wonder if the CRF230 cams, etc....would work in it?

I'm probably not using the exact terminology but when I spoke to someone at Kayo they specifically said that the T4 was down on power compared to some of the other 230 bikes because they went ahead and just made 1 version that would be legal for California.

[culcune]

Just test drove a Kayo T4 yesterday.....really wanting to love the bike but it's actually now listed as a 230(223cc), does not have the kickstart, is 'down on power' according to the Kayo rep i spoke with due to being CARB/CA compliant, and the biggest kicker for me does NOT have a functioning fuel gauge. :(

WHAT!? CARB Compliant????? For the street or just green sticker???

This is the CB motor, right? I wonder if the CRF230 cams, etc....would work in it?

Should be possible! If it's CARB compliant, that changes the equation for some!

I have not seen this on the EPA Offroad Certification list, but the list has not been published since April, so I am guessing it was certified as EPA offroad compliant and will appear on the next update, seeing as 4x4Dragon has touched and ridden one in person. I have seen them advertised by dealers as well in various states by putting in 'Kayo T4 for sale' on Google, so I know it has to have some kind of certification. So, of course, it will be California legal only as an offroad bike. Some of the Pister Pro/GPX bikes were Red Sticker, so at the very least this one, and the offroad bike Kayo is also showing with the same engine will be Red Sticker. Maybe they will one-up Pitster and get a Green Sticker?

I do recall when these were put on Kayo's website, the T4 was going to have a different engine than the 230cc offroad bike, but I am sure economics came into play.

It is a shame that they went this route because this bike might have been able to justify itself as a 'premium' bike in the same class as Pitster/GPX. It is, kinda, but as someone pointed out on another thread, the Orion RXB is a much better deal for a whole lot less than the T4.

No kickstart? No way! The old saying 'I wouldn't kick it out of bed for eating crackers' comes to mind, but I wouldn't pursue this bike at its price point. I am still curious, but not too interested if it keeps its 'premium'.

[Wild Dog]

The build quality of the Kayos is not bad next to a CRf230 which is chinese parts build in Brazil.. CRF 230 is a far cry from a CRF250.


At least here, the Kayo K6 is the cheapest way to get a motorcycle for motocross racing. For the price point (here) is either you get a K6 or an abused Ktm, CRF250 from 2010...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oAI4sgMU_U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fxdYa3hHqI

[NzBrakelathes]

That CB engine is it should be same as the Apollo and if you have 6 gears there’s no room for a kicker, one or other and I’d say 6 is better.
It’s still an old engine compared to the several others that are out recently like 249cc balance n 6 spd in another bike or the 249cc 4 valve etc

[alex_in_az]

That CB engine is it should be same as the Apollo and if you have 6 gears there’s no room for a kicker, one or other and I’d say 6 is better.
It’s still an old engine compared to the several others that are out recently like 249cc balance n 6 spd in another bike or the 249cc 4 valve etc
are these engines available on the after market?

[culcune]

are these engines available on the after market?

Yes, there have been a few threads about them, and this is a recent thread with a link:
http://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=26772

[franque]

That's a non-balance shaft motor. I think he was referring to what NZ posted. I haven't heard anything about those motors in the States or Europe (unless the 4 valver is liquid-cooled).

[NzBrakelathes]

That's a non-balance shaft motor. I think he was referring to what NZ posted. I haven't heard anything about those motors in the States or Europe (unless the 4 valver is liquid-cooled).

Air cooled 19kw
But unless you buy a bunch ...
Or what to do when you need parts...

[Ina Ditch]

Looks good,but I'd drop another $1k and get a crf230 if I was spending that kind of cash

I have been noticing this with some of the chinese bikes, the prices on some are getting to close to the bikes we grew up knowing.

[Wild Dog]

I have been noticing this with some of the chinese bikes, the prices on some are getting to close to the bikes we grew up knowing.

That's because they are using newer technology and somewhat better parts.

The K6 i posted is a SOHC 249cc 4 valves, EFI, water cooled, 30 HP. Yes still weaker than a CRF250R that has about 40hp.. But the K6 is half the price of a CRF250r

If you compare these chinese motorcycle to their japanese counterpart they are still cheap motorcycles.
But if you compare them to a chinese cg enduro, then yes they will be expensive.

[4x4Dragon]

So I just spoke with the rep at Kayo again........ super nice and helpful! Recapping some things that were pointed out:

FastAce suspension(nitro)
28mm Nibbi carb
Red Sticker CA approved
520H chain
13/45 sprockets
2.4A Lion battery
Aluminum wheels
Aluminum swingarm
SUBSTANTIAL spokes(my words as this is something i noticed on the one i test drove!)
7075 Alum handlebar
2.5 gallon fuel tank

Oddly when I asked if the engine was Honda CRF230 based they actually said it was more along the lines of Yamaha technology????

Initially I was going to dismiss the Kayo T4 due to lack of functioning fuel gauge but found out that the Orion RXB doesn't have this either so that's a wash for both on street driving convenience. bigger tank on the T4 of course though. Quite a price difference but there are a few upgrades on the T4 over the RXB also.

Now, comparing to Pitster/GPX........ the pricing would end up being a wash(actually better in favor of the Kayo) for me compared to the XTR T4 due to shipping as my dealer quoted me $34xx OUT THE DOOR for the Kayo.

If I could just confirm that the engine is modeled off another popular engine like the CRF230 then i would be even more interested.

[Wild Dog]

Oddly when I asked if the engine was Honda CRF230 based they actually said it was more along the lines of Yamaha technology????

.

I think they said that because they may want to set the Kayo as far away from the CG engines..
You know so people don't go and spread incorrect info like "Oh 3500 for an OHV engine ohhh no boy!!" Because a lot of people seems to think that Honda is the same as OHV when it comes small cc....

The engine on the Kayo T4 is a CB design.

[culcune]

So I just spoke with the rep at Kayo again........ super nice and helpful! Recapping some things that were pointed out:

FastAce suspension(nitro)
28mm Nibbi carb
Red Sticker CA approved
520H chain
13/45 sprockets
2.4A Lion battery
Aluminum wheels
Aluminum swingarm
SUBSTANTIAL spokes(my words as this is something i noticed on the one i test drove!)
7075 Alum handlebar
2.5 gallon fuel tank

Oddly when I asked if the engine was Honda CRF230 based they actually said it was more along the lines of Yamaha technology????

Initially I was going to dismiss the Kayo T4 due to lack of functioning fuel gauge but found out that the Orion RXB doesn't have this either so that's a wash for both on street driving convenience. bigger tank on the T4 of course though. Quite a price difference but there are a few upgrades on the T4 over the RXB also.

Now, comparing to Pitster/GPX........ the pricing would end up being a wash(actually better in favor of the Kayo) for me compared to the XTR T4 due to shipping as my dealer quoted me $34xx OUT THE DOOR for the Kayo.

If I could just confirm that the engine is modeled off another popular engine like the CRF230 then i would be even more interested.

You know you want to get this bike! You will be our guinea pig, but I couldn't imagine this having any fatal flaws where you would regret the purchase. Since it is more in like with PP/GPX pricing, it makes for a good argument to lean that way as opposed to regret spending over a grand more than the RXB.

[2LZ]

Thanks for the info. Red Sticker. Drat.....

[culcune]

Thanks for the info. Red Sticker. Drat.....

Several Pitster Pro/GPX bikes are in the same boat as far as CARB goes. Including that new mini Grom-like-vehicle with either the 140 or 190 engine.

Were you ever able to clarify the Red Sticker and if there is any loophole depending on where you ride it in California? There might be a loophole at least down this way near Yuma on BLM (not the BLM that appropriated the name, but the actual one that looks after certain federal) land. There is a wide swath of BLM land just across the state line in California that is not patrolled by California authorities. Numerous people residing in the Yuma area ride motorcycles, quads, S x S, etc. that I am sure do not have California stickers. That might be the loophole?

Sorry to hijack, back to the Kayo T4 which can obtain a Red Sticker...

[2LZ]

Several Pitster Pro/GPX bikes are in the same boat as far as CARB goes. Including that new mini Grom-like-vehicle with either the 140 or 190 engine.

Were you ever able to clarify the Red Sticker and if there is any loophole depending on where you ride it in California? There might be a loophole at least down this way near Yuma on BLM (not the BLM that appropriated the name, but the actual one that looks after certain federal) land. There is a wide swath of BLM land just across the state line in California that is not patrolled by California authorities. Numerous people residing in the Yuma area ride motorcycles, quads, S x S, etc. that I am sure do not have California stickers. That might be the loophole?

Sorry to hijack, back to the Kayo T4 which can obtain a Red Sticker...
I'm not worried about sticker color as much as when I see a street legal dual sport, is it able to be plated for the street here in CA. Seems there are still only the TT250 and XF250.
Someone has to break that barrier someday. Tons of money here to be had.

[4x4Dragon]

The Kayo T4 may have just moved up on my list of which motorcycle to buy! I was just messaging Joe Henner('The RXB guy') and he himself is familiar with Kayo and has even considered becoming a dealer. Better yet, he indicated that all of his performance parts will work on the T4!

Now, unless I find a really good deal on a 2018+ Kawasaki KLX250(EFI would be nice!), the T4 might be the one.

[culcune]

The Kayo T4 may have just moved up on my list of which motorcycle to buy! I was just messaging Joe Henner('The RXB guy') and he himself is familiar with Kayo and has even considered becoming a dealer. Better yet, he indicated that all of his performance parts will work on the T4!

Now, unless I find a really good deal on a 2018+ Kawasaki KLX250(EFI would be nice!), the T4 might be the one.

I saw some of the kids ATVs at a dingy Chinese motorsports dealership in downtown L.A. a couple years ago when I lived there. The quality was very obvious as compared to the $500 no-brand quads they also had (cannot recall the prices of the Kayo). The salesguy said that the Kayo were way above the quality of the other brands. Yes, that is a sales pitch, but I started reading up on them and they had an article linked on their website from a mainstream magazine about their 150cc Storm ATV and it had nothing but good things to say about it. That was before they came out with their 200cc Jackal. Like I have said before, I think they are probably on par with Pitster Pro/GPX. It has been believed that the RXB might be OEM'd by Kayo in China.

[GlennR]

I was one of the lucky ones that picked up a Kayo K6 rebranded as a Pitster LXR250 on closeout. It's a good bike. The NC250 engine has been dyno'd and it only has 22.5 Hp. The 300cc kit was a cheap and worthwhile upgrade.

It will be nice when these bikes start getting lighter. The weight makes a used Euro bike more appealing if you primarily ride offroad. Newer & cheaper are nice, but there's nothing you can do to shed 25 or 30 lbs from them.

I'm using mine as a dual-sport and it's great for that. Looks really good with an Acrebis 4.1 gallon tank & a pair of soft bags.

[4x4Dragon]

So....I went back to the dealer again to get more/better pictures of the T4. Yeah......i guess you could say that I'm also quite close to biting the bullet on this bike. :)

FYI, the exhaust is already quite nice so I doubt i would mess with it.....just air/intake and jetting among some of the first things i would/will do. Also, seems to be plenty of room behind the cover for a larger sprocket.(i would likely go up to 15 from the stock 13).

Photos from today https://photos.app.goo.gl/6D91KkjeRuzAYnCq8

[jthewood]

So....I went back to the dealer again to get more/better pictures of the T4. Yeah......i guess you could say that I'm also quite close to biting the bullet on this bike. :)

FYI, the exhaust is already quite nice so I doubt i would mess with it.....just air/intake and jetting among some of the first things i would/will do. Also, seems to be plenty of room behind the cover for a larger sprocket.(i would likely go up to 15 from the stock 13).

Photos from today https://photos.app.goo.gl/6D91KkjeRuzAYnCq8

So, 4x4 Dragon, did you ever pull the trigger on the T4? They've recently shown up at a local dealer here in Abq NM and I'm super-intrigued.
I have a Husky FE350, but it's so damn tall! I also have a stock Crf230F that I was thinking about upgrading the suspension, but for the cost, I could lower the 230F for my son and pick up a T4 (with fully adjustable suspension) for myself. I can guarantee the 230 motor is plenty of grunt for rocky mountain gnar and fast, whoopy desert.....fast enough for me that is.
Just curious if you went with the T4 or decided on something else.
I'm also looking at the Crf250F, but it would require a full suspension rebuild as well.
J