Help me decide on a bike

[SirKng]

I'm looking at serveral. Lifan X-pect 200, SSR XF250, Apollo DB-36, Brozz Recon and TaoTao TBR7. I'm also looking at a few non-China bikes. Beta 125 RR-S, Yamaha TW200 and Yamaha XT250. I'm leaning towards the China bikes due to price though so let's talk about those.

I like the fuel injection of the Lifan but not the rear drum brake. I like the SSR's looks and overall features the best but not the lacking instrument cluster. The Apollo I like due to the wheel size and looks but I heard the seat is uncomfortable. The Brozz and Tao Tao are being considered because I like the smaller wheels on the Brozz (I'm short) and the price of the Tao Tao.

What do you guys think? I'm not in a hurry as it looks like most places are out of stock but I am stuck at home so let's discuss. Lol.

Edit: I forgot to say I'll be using my bike for commuting and general transportation and occasionally exploring trails that I'll have to drive to. The roads I'll be using are mostly 55 MPH so the fastest I'll likely be cruising at about 60 MPH and there will be plenty of street use at under 45 MPH.

[TestYourMight]

Either the brozz, the Apollo, or the crf250l IMHO.

[Hancadam]

For your stated use, I'd say Brozz.

We have a Brozz and Hawk, love them both. Hawk is the better dirt bike, Brozz is the better road bike.

[Baskt_Case]

Those choices cover a $4000 spread and almost 4 different levels of quality and content. IMHO you need to decide on a pretty solid limit on how much money you want to spend.

If you've got Jap bike money and your comfortable with spending it, then thats my suggestion.

If you wanna SAVE a bunch of money and you WANT to work on a bike and put time into it, well that narrows it down a little bit.

Check out this thread I started a little while back. It might help you narrow things down a bit. I dont have Lifan on there but they would slot near the top in terms of price, quality, and content in Chinabikes. Jap bikes arent even on the list. Whole other league...

http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=26053

[gwowzer]

I've been nothing but thrilled with my Brozz

[alex_in_az]

You will be working on the TBR7, luckily I see that as a feature, not a bug.

[SirKng]

Good input guys. I'm leaning towards the China bikes because I like tinkering and saving money.

I do see three votes for the Brozz though... It might between that, the SSR, Lifan, or Beta now.

[Megadan]

Want to spend 2k or less, get a Brozz. It meets most of your criteria, minus the EFI. That being said, I would honestly not let the rear drum brake stop you from considering the Lifan. It's a great little machine, and that drum is more than enough for what you want to use the bike for.

If you decide to spend a bit more then the SSR XF250 is a damn good bike too. I wouldn't let the kind of blah gauges put you off. The rest of the bike is very solid and well proven.

I do agree with Baskt_Case though, you should put down some parameters or a budget to really try to focus your list up some more.

[SirKng]

The Brozz and Lifan are in the sweet spot of what I want to spend. It's just that I like the SSR because it sounds like a pretty solid bike for the money. And the Beta I'm still considering because I literally found out about it yesterday and I'm still doing my research on it. But it is definitely between one of those four at the moment.

Which of the three Chinese bikes that I'm looking at have counterbalanced engines?

[Megadan]

Which of the three Chinese bikes that I'm looking at have counterbalanced engines?

Both the Brozz and the Xpect are counter balanced.

[SirKng]

Thanks Megadan. The Brozz and Lifan are looking pretty good but I still like that SSR too. I'm gonna try calling the local SSR dealer tomorrow to see if they have one I can go look at. Maybe that'll help me decide for sure.

[dh]

I love the SSR for the good balance of on and off-road capability. If being on the street or highway wasn't as important to me I'd look at the Orion RXB 250L. It looks like a lot of bike for the money, but really meant to live in the dirt.

[2LZ]

I think it would be between the SSR XF250 (would be my choice) and the Brozz.
While the Brozz is one of the best Hondoids out there and would be my choice of Hondoid if it were available here in CA, the SSR (Qingqi) quality is virtually Japanese.

Both dh and I have constantly sung the praises of our Qingqi bikes, so much so when we log on, people log out. ;-)

The upside of the Brozz is parts are cheap and readily available online at Amazon or Ebay. I'm not sure how the SSR parts support is on the XF250 these days. Maybe dh or culcune can chime in. If SSR support has gotten better, I have not heard.

[SirKng]

I think it would be between the SSR XF250 (would be my choice) and the Brozz.
While the Brozz is one of the best Hondoids out there and would be my choice of Hondoid if it were available here in CA, the SSR (Qingqi) quality is virtually Japanese.

Both dh and I have constantly sung the praises of our Qingqi bikes, so much so when we log on, people log out. ;-)

The upside of the Brozz is parts are cheap and readily available online at Amazon or Ebay. I'm not sure how the SSR parts support is on the XF250 these days. Maybe dh or culcune can chime in. If SSR support has gotten better, I have not heard.

Where do you get parts for your Qingqi?

[SirKng]

I love the SSR for the good balance of on and off-road capability. If being on the street or highway wasn't as important to me I'd look at the Orion RXB 250L. It looks like a lot of bike for the money, but really meant to live in the dirt.

I thought about the Orion but like you said it's more of a dirt bike. I want something that's gonna be good on and off road. So that still leaves me with the SSR, Lifan, and Brozz. The Beta 125 RR-S still looks pretty enticing to me though too.

Edit: How well is the XF250 geared for street use? Can it be re-geared for better street use or is it good out of the box?

[dh]

I thought about the Orion but like you said it's more of a dirt bike. I want something that's gonna be good on and off road. So that still leaves me with the SSR, Lifan, and Brozz. The Beta 125 RR-S still looks pretty enticing to me though too.

Edit: How well is the XF250 geared for street use? Can it be re-geared for better street use or is it good out of the box?

It wouldn't take much for Orion to make a more street oriented version of the RXB. A larger tank + passenger foot pegs + kickstand + luggage rack would also put a few lbs. on the bike. 253 lbs sounds a bit light for passing tractor trailers but I have no way of knowing.

The SSR is geared nicely stock. A 15 tooth front sprocket is standard, but TU250 sprockets are available from 12 to 17 if I am correct. I own them all and switch regularly depending on what kind of riding I'm doing, but I think the 12 and 17 are too extreme for normal use.

[2LZ]

Where do you get parts for your Qingqi?
Q is an '09. He hasn't needed a single part I haven't changed voluntarily like chains, sprockets, oil, etc.... Zero failures....but again, I don't ride super hard at 61. I do push him hard when I ride with my neighbor on the paved twisties but he complains not.

If he needed parts, most Suzuki DR200 parts would work including major motor parts, cables, etc....

[SirKng]

It wouldn't take much for Orion to make a more street oriented version of the RXB. A larger tank + passenger foot pegs + kickstand + luggage rack would also put a few lbs. on the bike. 253 lbs sounds a bit light for passing tractor trailers but I have no way of knowing.

The SSR is geared nicely stock. A 15 tooth front sprocket is standard, but TU250 sprockets are available from 12 to 17 if I am correct. I own them all and switch regularly depending on what kind of riding I'm doing, but I think the 12 and 17 are too extreme for normal use.

So 16 front would be good for street would you say?


Q is an '09. He hasn't needed a single part I haven't changed voluntarily like chains, sprockets, oil, etc.... Zero failures....but again, I don't ride super hard at 61. I do push him hard when I ride with my neighbor on the paved twisties but he complains not.

If he needed parts, most Suzuki DR200 parts would work including major motor parts, cables, etc....

I really am thinking I might be sold on the reliability of this bike. I only hear praises being sung about it's reliability... I might have to chop my list down to this, the Lifan, or the Beta. I'm finally down to three bikes. Yay!

Also I think I found a lead on the street or supermoto version of the XF250 in the next state over. A brand new unused 2018 model for $2900. Is that a good deal for a new bike? It sounds good to me but what do you SSR/Qingqi owners think?

https://www.leossouth.com/inventory/-2427222i

[Megadan]

That's $500 off the MSRP for a brand new bike. Seems like a decent deal to me. I wouldn't have a single problem buying one of those bikes right now if I had the cash in hand.

[SirKng]

That's what I though. Only issue is that I don't have any time this week to go look at it. My only days off are Sunday and Monday and they are closed Sunday and Monday. I might have to take a day off from work to go look at this bike.

I really wish I could get a hold of my local dealer...

[culcune]

That Beta is nice, but at $5k for a 125cc, even a high-end 125 doesn't seem worth your time considering what kind of riding you are planning to do. The stock gearing tells me this would be at home on some narrow forest trails hopping the odd log here and there laying across the trail. I think with more street-friendly gearing, it might top out at 60-65 mph max, but my guess is the engine wouldn't like that kind of speed. The next step up is the 350, but that is $10k. Buying an exotic bike has a price--literally!

The Lifan is a nice all around bike, but it only comes with a drum rear brake, and standard fork. I personally am contemplating this bike in spite of this (I also like the non-dual-sport KPM200 cafe style bike, or even the standard-style KP200 which is much closer in price to the X-Pect), but some members here do not do drums :lmao: Arguably, forks aren't as big an issue as evidenced by the standard Hawk being so popular. The X-Pect really only needs a countersprocket change to a 17, and you should be hitting 70 MPH once the engine is broken in at about 400-500 miles.

The SSR would make a good all around bike, and being able to use Suzuki engine parts is a bonus. Even if money was not an option, I think I would consider this bike over the TW200 and the DR200, and the VanVan Suzuki recently released. Of course money is usually a consideration, so its much lower price makes it attractive (otherwise, for $2k more, the Honda CRF250L would be considered). I know dh hits 70+ MPH on So. Cal's freeways and commutes the distance from the high desert to downtown L.A. on occasion, which is not only a far distance, but quite a difference in elevation (it will snow in the high desert on some of the cold, winter days at 3 to 4,000+ feet, but not in downtown L.A. which is near sea-level).

[SirKng]

That Beta is nice, but at $5k for a 125cc, even a high-end 125 doesn't seem worth your time considering what kind of riding you are planning to do. The stock gearing tells me this would be at home on some narrow forest trails hopping the odd log here and there laying across the trail. I think with more street-friendly gearing, it might top out at 60-65 mph max, but my guess is the engine wouldn't like that kind of speed. The next step up is the 350, but that is $10k. Buying an exotic bike has a price--literally!

The Lifan is a nice all around bike, but it only comes with a drum rear brake, and standard fork. I personally am contemplating this bike in spite of this (I also like the non-dual-sport KPM200 cafe style bike, or even the standard-style KP200 which is much closer in price to the X-Pect), but some members here do not do drums :lmao: Arguably, forks aren't as big an issue as evidenced by the standard Hawk being so popular. The X-Pect really only needs a countersprocket change to a 17, and you should be hitting 70 MPH once the engine is broken in at about 400-500 miles.

The SSR would make a good all around bike, and being able to use Suzuki engine parts is a bonus. Even if money was not an option, I think I would consider this bike over the TW200 and the DR200, and the VanVan Suzuki recently released. Of course money is usually a consideration, so its much lower price makes it attractive (otherwise, for $2k more, the Honda CRF250L would be considered). I know dh hits 70+ MPH on So. Cal's freeways and commutes the distance from the high desert to downtown L.A. on occasion, which is not only a far distance, but quite a difference in elevation (it will snow in the high desert on some of the cold, winter days at 3 to 4,000+ feet, but not in downtown L.A. which is near sea-level).

As of right now I'm considering the SSR and the Lifan. The Beta 125 RR-S I'll get later on down the road as a 2nd bike to mess around with. Those pricier Beta bikes do look real nice though. I'd get one if they weren't $10k+.

But like you said I've heard nothing but praise for the SSR which means it is number one on my list. The Lifan is number two. I don't think I would mind having a rear drum too much as I was considering the TW200 at one point (I might get one of those later on too. :D).

Problem is that the nearest SSR dealer for me is in the next state over. My local in town dealer does not do SSR anymore apparently and the SSR dealers in my state are twice as far as the Minnesota dealer I found so there's that.

If I can't get an SSR locally or within a resonable driving distance I might just get a Lifan... Or get a Brozz Recon if I can't get a Lifan.

[SirKng]

What do you guys think about the Apollo DB-36 Deluxe? I like the supermoto style bikes and if I can't get a hold of a SSR I might go this route instead.

[culcune]

Watch Motocheez videos on the Apollo. Seems to be a good bike based on the videos and members here. Ironically, Apollo has a very popular off-road dirtbike, that members here have liked over the years for being a low-cost, capable dirtbike. When they were introducing the street-legal bike, so was the Orion company. The Orion bike is a very off-road capable dual-sport, and there is an Orion pure dirtbike, whereas the Apollo bike ended up as more of a street bike and not as much as dirtbike as their dirtbike unlike what Orion did. Personally, I really like it, the more I watch the videos. I am a sucker for fat-tired bikes, starting with the TW200, so the XF250 and more recently the Suzuki VanVan200 and the Apollo bike have caught my eye. Motocheez does take his on trails with good results. He did have to relocate the kickstand because it would get hung up on logs that were laying across the trail when he tried going over the logs in one particular video. It is not incapable of offroading by any means, but it is not as hardcore of a dirtbike like the Orion dual-sport is as compared to its pure offroad stablemate. I would definitely consider it by all means, as it would check off highway riding and offroading unlike the hardcore dirtbikes with license plates like those offered by Orion, or Pitster Pro. Oh, one downside with the Apollo (besides the kickstand for jumping logs in your way) is it does have a small-ish fuel tank, one area in which it is like its pure dirtbike brother.

But, do try obtaining the XF250, even through Saferwholesale.

[SirKng]

I've watched Motocheez's videos on the DB36. I do dig the bike a lot. His comments about it riding like a sport bike and having more better top end pull than the CG style engines have me intrigued. It overall seems like a quality bike for the price. But I'll take your advice culcune. I'm gonna try for the SSR from Saferwholesale. Just need to talk to my bank to see if I have protection from any possible skullduggery from the dealer (I don't have a credit card, only a prepaid debit card, and you save $100 if you use your bank to pay). If not I might just get the DB36 and wait until next year to get the SSR.

[Megadan]

I can point you in the right direction for CG engine top end pull. Just requires $95 and a5-6 week wait for a package from Brazil lol.

I agree with Culcune, I think the XF250 is the bike for you given your desires.

[SirKng]

Ok. Here's the plan then. I'm gonna try to order the XF250 from Saferwholesale. If they can't get me that I'll have them ship a DB36 in place of it since they have that one for sale too. The DB36 Deluxe is a 49 state legal bike correct? I shouldn't have issues getting it plated?

[culcune]

Ok. Here's the plan then. I'm gonna try to order the XF250 from Saferwholesale. If they can't get me that I'll have them ship a DB36 in place of it since they have that one for sale too. The DB36 Deluxe is a 49 state legal bike correct? I shouldn't have issues getting it plated?

Interested to see what they say...unlike other dealers who dropship, saferwholesale does stock many bikes, which will be the key to actually getting a bike right now. The distributors are sold out or selling out, and shipments from China are weeks or months away. That being said, my guess is they have the XF250 in their warehouse, or if not, they can get them due to the fact that it is a more premium bike ($3k range) vs. the sub $2k so-called Hondnoid bikes. If they don't have the Apollo in stock, you will probably get the XF250, and that will be a good thing!

Oh, and yes, the Apollo is 49-state legal; actually it states 50 state on their EPA/DOT which means they are attempting California CARB certification although at this point they have not yet obtained CARB, but depending on if someone has already self-registered that bike is generally key to how many hoops you will or won't have to jump through. Cannot wait to see what you end up with!! :tup:

[SirKng]

Just an update. Called Saferwholesale. They are out of the XF250. Now I'm trying to get a hold of a dealer in the southern part of the state now to see if they can order me a bike. I think at this point I'll just have to order a bike and be patient and wait for it. But which ever one I can get a hold of sooner is the one I'm going with. Either a DB36 or the XF250.

[Megadan]

I am telling you that you will be much happier with the XF250, even if it means having to wait a bit longer. It's your money at the end of the day though. Hopefully you get what you want!

[SirKng]

DB36 is out of stock everywhere until late July early August. One dealer I called said it'll probably be about a couple of weeks if I order a XF250. Either way I'm waiting so it looks like I might be going for the XF250. I did find a lead on one that is new and for sale but I need to take time off to go look at it. So that'll be about two weeks out anyway so I'm waiting either way. So yeah. Anyway I go I'm waiting for a while. Lol. Gotta learn to be patient.

[SirKng]

Update! I got my SSR XF250! I've been riding it around the yard as I don't have it registered yet and I don't have my license yet. But I'm loving it. I just have to fix a small chip on the fuel tank and maybe jet it. But so far so good!

http://imgur.com/a/4ptwMrb

[markerdown]

Nice! Congrats on the new bike!!!!!!

[SirKng]

Thanks! Been waiting a long time for this.

[Megadan]

Thanks! Been waiting a long time for this.

It only gets better lol. Congrats on getting the bike you wanted. Did you end up going to that dealer you posted the link to that was a couple hours away?

[SirKng]

Yessir. They still had the bike. I was able to talk them down a little bit more since the bike had some issues (chip in gas tank and broken tab on one of the plastic panels). I already fixed the plastic and just need to get some touch up paint now.

[culcune]

Congratulations on the bike! You will love it I am sure!!

[SirKng]

Congratulations on the bike! You will love it I am sure!!

I already love it. I had an absolute blast riding around my yard in 1st and 2nd gear. I can only imagine what it would feel like in 5th at 70 MPH. :D

[2LZ]

Congrats and a FINE choice!....but I'm a tad bias. ;-)
Make sure and break it in according to the manual. I know, boring, but your motor will love you for it.