sv650touring
07-21-2020, 01:54 PM
My buddy and I ordered a pair of Hellcats from Q9 and a pair of Champions from Cajun Maddogs. Overall both dealers were good, but Cajun Maddogs was better. Firstly they made a separate bill of sale for each of us, while Q9 insisted on putting my name (I ordered) on the BOS for both bikes. Also Q9 listed the total amount as the "sale" price, and Cajun Maddogs separated out the shipping (saving me about $20 in tax when I got it registered). Each bike cost $1100 delivered, but the Champions were on sale. They're normally $1200.
Overall the bikes are exactly what I expected after reading about them online. They need a lot more work to set them up than a Japanese bike, but at less than half the cost, it's worth it - if you're not afraid to tinker.
TL;DR - Both bikes are great, but the Champion is my favorite.
Hellcat:
This is the one I was looking forward to most. It looks cool and is fun to ride. It had more defects and is generally harder to work on than the Champion, but nothing too bad. The paint is thin and the plastic is brittle. I have a bolt missing on the left footpeg bracket. It may have broken off before I got it, as the hole seems obstructed. I'm not sure how the cables and hoses are supposed to be routed, so I just took my best guess. It looks kinda sloppy, and the front bake line and speedo sender cable don't want to stay in their little clamps.
- The stock shifter is too far forward, so you practically have to take your foot off the peg to shift. I replaced the stock shifter with a shorter adjustable one (see attachment) which I modified to fit, and while it requires more force to shift, I like it better because I can keep my foot on the peg when shifting. I couldn't get the original 6mm clamp bolt to go in, so i used a 5mm bolt and nut to clamp the shifter on.
- I replaced the running light with a T10 LED from https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DB7W78P and so far, so good.
- I replaced the H4 headlight bulb with an LED from eBay (see bottom attachment). I suggest you choose a different bulb than that one, as I had to modify the bulb and the housing to get it to fit. I ordered a few different styles for under $5/ea, and the first one that arrived was the worst fit, but I haven't bothered to change it. The tail light looks like it's already LED, so I didn't mess with it.
- I pulled off the exhaust and removed most of the internal welding slop that looked like it might obstruct flow. The inside diameter if the pipe is 22-23mm, but the inside diameter of the weld was around 17-18mm - a 30-45% reduction in area. There doesn't seem to be a catalytic converter.
- I replaced the carb with one from ebay (see attachment). It cost under $30 shipped (US seller too!), and came with a K&N-style filter pod and an aluminum intake. The biggest main jet I have is a #125, and it was still too lean. So I put a 1mm drill bit in a vice, and put the original (#95 I think) jet in my drill chuck and opened it up until it was just a hair bigger than the #125. The lean surging went away, and it runs well, but I probably haven't finished tinkering. 1.5 turns on the mixture screw, stock pilot jet, clip in the middle position. The stock throttle cable had way too much free play with this carb, so I made a little spacer out of the elbow from the original Champion's carburetor lid. I also used the intake that came with the carb, since it was a little bigger diameter than the original. Also the opening in the original intake gasket was smaller even than the original intake, so I enlarged it to match the new one. I needed some metric nuts and bolts to mount the carb & intake, which i got from a harbor freight kit. This vibrated OFF - TWICE! - in about a mile of riding, until I got smart and put a drop of rubber cement behind the nuts. And those nuts were TIGHT!
- I use a Chinese oiled-foam air filter pod from eBay, with a little 20W motor oil. I think the angled ones might fit a little better, but straight is OK.
- I replaced the stock 16T front sprocket with a 17T from eBay. I'd say this is a slight improvement, but not a big deal. 16T isn't terrible.
- I felt the valve clearance and it felt good - just a tiny gap, but I didn't actually measure it :shrug:
Champion:
This is a cool bike! I set it up first and have done far more tinkering because it is easier to get to everything than on the Hellcat. The quality seems higher than the Hellcat, largely because there's no plastic bodywork and it's a simpler machine. The automatic clutch isn't as fun as a manual, but it's also one less thing to think about when you're at a stop. The heel-toe shifter and neutral-on-top shift pattern take some getting used to if you're used to a normal bike. The weirdest thing to me was the fact that the headlight and tail light (though not the brake light) all run on AC directly from the coils. This can be nice since the battery isn't being drained much when the engine isn't running, but it makes most LEDs flicker. You can tap into one of the orange wires, which provide 12V DC when the key is on, if you want to power lights with DC. I only did this to the rear since the AC seemed to make my tail light burn out.
- I replaced the stock carb with the same one I used in the Hellcat, and strangely it needed very different jetting. I think I used a #110 for the main and put the clip one notch above the middle (leaner), and the lean surging went away. At first it had a tendency to die while idling, then I realized the mixture screw was 3.5 turns out. Setting it to 1.5 turns fixed that. I have not yet checked the carb intake gasket or exhause pipe for obstructions, and I haven't removed the catalytic converter, so I may need to rejet after doing that. The Champio'n intake was identical to the one included with the eBay carb, so I just left it in place. This was easier than swapping the Hellcat's carb and the throttle cable worked well without modification. Unlike the original carb, this one isn't tapped for bolts so I had to use some metric nuts to secure it.
- I replaced the air filter with a Chinese oiled-foam pod like the Hellcat, but I used an agled one, which sticks out less than a straight one. It doesn't look as nice as the original, but I believe it does a better job.
- I replaced the BA15D tail/brake light bulb with an eBay LED (see attachment, it's the top LED), and powered it from a DC line off the CDI box. The original tail light burned out right away, and the first LED I put in there did too. The voltage at the battery still goes over 14v while the engine is running, so I don't think it is drawing too much power.
- I replaced the BA20D headlight bulb with a LED from eBay, and it flickers a bit depending on engine speed, but i figure this only makes me more conspicuous to cars, and it puts out way more light than stock. We'll see if the AC power kills the LED.
- The valves had NO clearance when I checked them :tdown:, so I adjusted them to about .004/.005" and it seems fine.
- The rear sprocket was not perfectly concentric with the rear axle, leading the chain to get tighter and looser as it turned. This had me worried the wheel might be drilled incorrectly or something, but I was able to fix it by loosening the sprocket bolts, and nudging the sprocket in the direction it needed to go, and now it is fine and chain tension stays the same as the wheel turns.
Final thoughts:
- Drilling your main jets is faster and cheaper than buying them. Go ahead and buy a set, but you can enlarge a jet that's too small even if you don't have the exact size drill bit.
- If you're buying jets for these carbs, there are some smaller (incompatible) jets that look almost the same in pictures. You want the larger style that are pictured in the attachment below.
- I got the cheapest Mikuni VM22 knockoffs around and I think they work great. I've never jetted carbs before, but it seems like it was mainly just getting the main jet big enough to make it stop surging. And contrary to what you may read online, the main jet ABSOLUTELY affects how it runs at partial throttle! It was a pleasant surprise when changing out my main jet fixed not only my full-throttle surging, but also partial throttle as well.
- If you're willing to wait for the slow boat from China, and do some minor mechanical tinkering, these bikes are dirt cheap to upgrade into some really decent machines. 2x Carbs, 2x filters, 3x LEDs, 1x sprocket and 1x shifter was under $100 total for both bikes.
- Super Tech Heavy Duty Diesel oil (15W-40) is $10/gallon at Wal-Mart, and safe for wet clutches.
- I had an issue with the Champion's carb running dry when there was plenty of fuel in the tank. You could blow into the fuel tank fill hole to force fuel into the lines, but I got rid of this problem by routing the fuel lines so they didn't go up any higher than they needed to.
Overall the bikes are exactly what I expected after reading about them online. They need a lot more work to set them up than a Japanese bike, but at less than half the cost, it's worth it - if you're not afraid to tinker.
TL;DR - Both bikes are great, but the Champion is my favorite.
Hellcat:
This is the one I was looking forward to most. It looks cool and is fun to ride. It had more defects and is generally harder to work on than the Champion, but nothing too bad. The paint is thin and the plastic is brittle. I have a bolt missing on the left footpeg bracket. It may have broken off before I got it, as the hole seems obstructed. I'm not sure how the cables and hoses are supposed to be routed, so I just took my best guess. It looks kinda sloppy, and the front bake line and speedo sender cable don't want to stay in their little clamps.
- The stock shifter is too far forward, so you practically have to take your foot off the peg to shift. I replaced the stock shifter with a shorter adjustable one (see attachment) which I modified to fit, and while it requires more force to shift, I like it better because I can keep my foot on the peg when shifting. I couldn't get the original 6mm clamp bolt to go in, so i used a 5mm bolt and nut to clamp the shifter on.
- I replaced the running light with a T10 LED from https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DB7W78P and so far, so good.
- I replaced the H4 headlight bulb with an LED from eBay (see bottom attachment). I suggest you choose a different bulb than that one, as I had to modify the bulb and the housing to get it to fit. I ordered a few different styles for under $5/ea, and the first one that arrived was the worst fit, but I haven't bothered to change it. The tail light looks like it's already LED, so I didn't mess with it.
- I pulled off the exhaust and removed most of the internal welding slop that looked like it might obstruct flow. The inside diameter if the pipe is 22-23mm, but the inside diameter of the weld was around 17-18mm - a 30-45% reduction in area. There doesn't seem to be a catalytic converter.
- I replaced the carb with one from ebay (see attachment). It cost under $30 shipped (US seller too!), and came with a K&N-style filter pod and an aluminum intake. The biggest main jet I have is a #125, and it was still too lean. So I put a 1mm drill bit in a vice, and put the original (#95 I think) jet in my drill chuck and opened it up until it was just a hair bigger than the #125. The lean surging went away, and it runs well, but I probably haven't finished tinkering. 1.5 turns on the mixture screw, stock pilot jet, clip in the middle position. The stock throttle cable had way too much free play with this carb, so I made a little spacer out of the elbow from the original Champion's carburetor lid. I also used the intake that came with the carb, since it was a little bigger diameter than the original. Also the opening in the original intake gasket was smaller even than the original intake, so I enlarged it to match the new one. I needed some metric nuts and bolts to mount the carb & intake, which i got from a harbor freight kit. This vibrated OFF - TWICE! - in about a mile of riding, until I got smart and put a drop of rubber cement behind the nuts. And those nuts were TIGHT!
- I use a Chinese oiled-foam air filter pod from eBay, with a little 20W motor oil. I think the angled ones might fit a little better, but straight is OK.
- I replaced the stock 16T front sprocket with a 17T from eBay. I'd say this is a slight improvement, but not a big deal. 16T isn't terrible.
- I felt the valve clearance and it felt good - just a tiny gap, but I didn't actually measure it :shrug:
Champion:
This is a cool bike! I set it up first and have done far more tinkering because it is easier to get to everything than on the Hellcat. The quality seems higher than the Hellcat, largely because there's no plastic bodywork and it's a simpler machine. The automatic clutch isn't as fun as a manual, but it's also one less thing to think about when you're at a stop. The heel-toe shifter and neutral-on-top shift pattern take some getting used to if you're used to a normal bike. The weirdest thing to me was the fact that the headlight and tail light (though not the brake light) all run on AC directly from the coils. This can be nice since the battery isn't being drained much when the engine isn't running, but it makes most LEDs flicker. You can tap into one of the orange wires, which provide 12V DC when the key is on, if you want to power lights with DC. I only did this to the rear since the AC seemed to make my tail light burn out.
- I replaced the stock carb with the same one I used in the Hellcat, and strangely it needed very different jetting. I think I used a #110 for the main and put the clip one notch above the middle (leaner), and the lean surging went away. At first it had a tendency to die while idling, then I realized the mixture screw was 3.5 turns out. Setting it to 1.5 turns fixed that. I have not yet checked the carb intake gasket or exhause pipe for obstructions, and I haven't removed the catalytic converter, so I may need to rejet after doing that. The Champio'n intake was identical to the one included with the eBay carb, so I just left it in place. This was easier than swapping the Hellcat's carb and the throttle cable worked well without modification. Unlike the original carb, this one isn't tapped for bolts so I had to use some metric nuts to secure it.
- I replaced the air filter with a Chinese oiled-foam pod like the Hellcat, but I used an agled one, which sticks out less than a straight one. It doesn't look as nice as the original, but I believe it does a better job.
- I replaced the BA15D tail/brake light bulb with an eBay LED (see attachment, it's the top LED), and powered it from a DC line off the CDI box. The original tail light burned out right away, and the first LED I put in there did too. The voltage at the battery still goes over 14v while the engine is running, so I don't think it is drawing too much power.
- I replaced the BA20D headlight bulb with a LED from eBay, and it flickers a bit depending on engine speed, but i figure this only makes me more conspicuous to cars, and it puts out way more light than stock. We'll see if the AC power kills the LED.
- The valves had NO clearance when I checked them :tdown:, so I adjusted them to about .004/.005" and it seems fine.
- The rear sprocket was not perfectly concentric with the rear axle, leading the chain to get tighter and looser as it turned. This had me worried the wheel might be drilled incorrectly or something, but I was able to fix it by loosening the sprocket bolts, and nudging the sprocket in the direction it needed to go, and now it is fine and chain tension stays the same as the wheel turns.
Final thoughts:
- Drilling your main jets is faster and cheaper than buying them. Go ahead and buy a set, but you can enlarge a jet that's too small even if you don't have the exact size drill bit.
- If you're buying jets for these carbs, there are some smaller (incompatible) jets that look almost the same in pictures. You want the larger style that are pictured in the attachment below.
- I got the cheapest Mikuni VM22 knockoffs around and I think they work great. I've never jetted carbs before, but it seems like it was mainly just getting the main jet big enough to make it stop surging. And contrary to what you may read online, the main jet ABSOLUTELY affects how it runs at partial throttle! It was a pleasant surprise when changing out my main jet fixed not only my full-throttle surging, but also partial throttle as well.
- If you're willing to wait for the slow boat from China, and do some minor mechanical tinkering, these bikes are dirt cheap to upgrade into some really decent machines. 2x Carbs, 2x filters, 3x LEDs, 1x sprocket and 1x shifter was under $100 total for both bikes.
- Super Tech Heavy Duty Diesel oil (15W-40) is $10/gallon at Wal-Mart, and safe for wet clutches.
- I had an issue with the Champion's carb running dry when there was plenty of fuel in the tank. You could blow into the fuel tank fill hole to force fuel into the lines, but I got rid of this problem by routing the fuel lines so they didn't go up any higher than they needed to.