air intake question .......

[Ben]

:?: having never seen one of theses bikes in person ,i was wondering if they have an airbox under the seat or do they have just the filter and housing on the carb itself .thanks

[msRandi]

they do have a air box

[dlunt]

And if you don't like it, they are easy to take out the air box and clamp on a UNI Pod filter right to the carb. :)

[mdsuave13]

what size uni filter fits the best in there?

[fatboy250]

For most I think 39mm

[tzrider]

On many bikes, modifying an air box or filter can cause drastic jetting changes. I don't know if that's the case on the Chinese stuff because I haven't messed with one yet. It all really depends on how restrictive the stock air box is.

[fatboy250]

For ours the air box wasn't the major restriction, the exhaust was. A significant difference was noticed after drilling out both baffles. Ours reach an indicated 82mph(closer to 75mph actual) now with a K&N type filter and 2 1/2 turns out on the fuel air mixture screw and bottom notch with the c-clip.

[VFRFLYER]

Hey Jason where did you get your air filter from mailorder or local and how much if you dont mind saying
Thanks Ray

[fatboy250]

I got ours from the internet. After doing some more research, it looks like ebay is the way to go, even with shipping. It should end up being around $10 for the K&N type cone filter. Let me know if you find better.

Jason

[liverchip]

I know you guys love those pod air cleaners, but how good is the actual filtration on these bad boys? I bring this up because out here in the West we deal with dust and sand and a number of these cheap Ebay pods don't filter worth a poopoo and a prefilter would be in order.

[red2003]

I know you guys love those pod air cleaners, but how good is the actual filtration on these bad boys? I bring this up because out here in the West we deal with dust and sand and a number of these cheap Ebay pods don't filter worth a poopoo and a prefilter would be in order.

I've bought a couple of the pod type filters off eBay before. They are decent quality but need to be oiled like a K&N to filter out the small stuff. For another 15/20 bucks you can have a real K&N and probably be ahead of the game. The stock airbox is kinda cheesey and I wouldn't count on that filtering out everything either!

[Roketarider]

I am personally content the the stock box/air filter now. I do alot of trail mud riding, so I like the box.

[red2003]

I am personally content the the stock box/air filter now. I do alot of trail mud riding, so I like the box.

I think I'll stick with the box too. At least until it falls apart. I will be riding in rain often, and I'm not sure how well the pod would work sucking in that much water. I gotta take a closer look to see how protected it would be without the box.

[fatboy250]

I agree, if you are going to be in lots of off road mud dirt and dust , then stay with the box. I do almost only street with a few trails from time to time. The filter I have is sufficiently tucked under the seat and behind the side panels that normal rain and other road debris is not a problem.

[Roketarider]

Well, I put a cone filter on yesterday and took it out for a ride. You can def hear a difference, but it seems like it is starving for fuel? I guess I will move the c-clip down one and see if that makes it run better.

[Roketarider]

Did a quick adjustment of the needle and the screw on the right side and runs like a champ now!

[mdsuave13]

let us know if moving the c-clip works out for you...

[Roketarider]

let us know if moving the c-clip works out for you...
Yes, I did adjust the c-clip. I moved it one space down towards the pointy end of the needle.

Run good, but I think it is still staving for fuel with the new airfilter, so i might move it down to the last one and test that out.

[dlunt]

I have my c-clip all of the way to the pointy end and then had to adjust the carb.
Picture:
http://www.chinariders.net/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=1092

Back it out (counter clockwise) 1/2 turn at a time. Go ride and adjust again.

It starts right up and winds up like a clock now!
No problems riding in the rain. I does take some oil just like the stock.

[Roketarider]

I saw that but didnt' want to mess with it, guess I will pay around with it sometime soon.

So if I feel it is starving for fuel sit, should I just adjust that screw, or move it down another notch, then adjust that screw?

[ob1]

Be careful with these pod filters, guys. Most are sized for much smaller bikes. There are better ways to go.

Surely you dont think that the Chinese designed a whole new air filter for these bikes? Post up some pix of a stock air filter, lets find out what "Big 3" bike they took the design from. Then you can get good aftermarket filters.

One of the little tricks I do to use a free flowing pod filter AND get the protection of the air box is to get a length of clear vinyl hose almost big enough to fit the carb. Heat it, force it on, hose clamp it. Remove or modify the air horn between the carb and air box, run the vinyl tube into the air box and install the pod in there.

[red2003]

The pod filters provide MORE then enough air. They flow way better then the stock airbox, that's why it leans them out. Correct jetting and carb adjustments and the pod is WAY better then a stock airbox.

[ob1]

Hint: Pod filters are common on machines 100cc and under. They are unheard of on machines 250cc and larger. The only reason pods are fitting these 200s is because they have a small carb, one also found on smaller machines.

But, a 200cc motor processes twice the amount of air of a 100...

You want good airflow, good filtration and enough surface area that the filter isnt quickly clogged by drawing too much air through to small a surface. Pods will not provide this. Even if the pod provides good filtration, it will clog quickly because of the small surface area. Then you wont be running lean, it will be rich, and dragging dirt through the pod as the engine strains to get air.

I would bet I have been playing this game for longer than you have been alive.

Post pix. If there is a cage, pix of it too. I would also bet that there is a high quality aftermarket filter out there, just waiting for somome to figure out it fits.

[red2003]

Geez man, take a breath. For starters, just because your OLD doesn't mean you know jack SH!T about anything. I've run these K&N type filters (you might be confusing what we are talking about when we say POD) on every bike I have ever owned. My 900 Ninja, 600 FZR and FJ1100 crotch rockets all had these filters (K&N calls them filter chargers) and they ALL produced more power with the pods vs stock airbox. Let's see 1100cc's divided by 4 cylinders = 275cc per filter. Well that bike made 160 RWHP with these filters and jetting (+3) with F1 slipons. So I would say they are MOST DEFINATELY suited for any application. BTW these filters have no cage. You are thinking of the OLD foam filters that have a plastic cage inside. That's not what we're talking about here. These have NO cage they are an oil soaked cotton media suspended in between two screens. They have nearly NO restriction and filter better then ANY stock foam airbox filter. Times are a changing, get with the technology. :!: This is what we are refering to:

http://www.knfilters.com/universal/universal.htm

[ob1]

Talk about taking a breath...

If these pods are so great, why dont I ever see them at enduros? At hare scrambles? At MX tracks? On trail rides?

The laws of physics dont pause for china bikes or any others. Perhaps your crotch rocket pods have the proper surface area and filtration for road use, and space to mount them. On small bikes and offroad bikes, frame constraints make available pods too small for larger bikes.

K&N makes a fine filter, but I would never use one offroad. Free flow comes at a cost, less filtration. Fine for the road, not for offroad.

Just cuz you ride a crotch rocket doesnt mean you know sh*t either, bud.

[red2003]

OK, well then lets take my DIRT modified racecar. It runs 600HP out of a 11:1 358 Chevy V8 at 8500 rpm. Hey guess what it uses for a filter? A k&N. Hey guess what we all use at the dirt track. Bingo, you win a prize. Or take my buddy who races a YZ250F, and taken several track championships on it. Yup, K&N pod type filter. Both on dirt race tracks, both increased HP and both proved longer engine life. And for the record, less restriction absolutely does not need to = less filtration. Do you even have a China enduro? I have enough room under my seat for 5 of these. The stock airbox is the size of a small microwave. Do some research on dirt racing. See how many teams use stock airboxes and how many use these type of filters.

[ambassador]

Most dirt racers use K&N pod filters, they just replace them after every race, having a sponsor allows you to do that.. I had a pod filter on my 883 sportster and it ran great, just needed a little more maintanance as far as keeping it clean and oiled... I've seen guys drill holes in their airboxes to get the same effect as a pod.. More air, more gas=bigger bang...

[msRandi]

Hay! be nice to old people. I have raced motorcycles, worked in motorcycle shops, had a hella lot of motorcycles, and added K&N's to every bike theyed fit on. and some day do the Vivas too.

[ob1]

Perhaps some one could be so kind as to explain how one given filter that is high flow gives the same filtration as one of equivalent size "non high flow" filter.

The air gets through more easily, why is that? Could it be that the pores of the foam are larger? If so, how do they stop the grit from passing through?

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

And to answer the question, I have no china bike, I have a Honda repowered with a Lifan engine, soon a Z50 repowered with a Lifan engine, and a dozen other offroad machines, that operate in a very dusty environment unless it has rained fairly recently. My oldest machine, an '83 CR480, never been bored, never been run with a dirty filter...or a pod.

In 30+ years of offroad motorcycle racing and riding, I have never seen a pod on anything larger than a 100cc.

IMHO, if you want safe filtration and high flow, find the largest UNI {or other known brand} foam filter that will fit your airbox, preferably one that uses an interior cage. The cage is an important part of the flow, it allows a volume of calm filtered air to reside behind the filter, ready to be sucked in by the intake pulse. The larger the caged area, the larger the volume readily available, instead of having to be drawn through the filter.

Keep that filter clean and oiled properly. Enjoy.

[Roketarider]

I have my c-clip all of the way to the pointy end and then had to adjust the carb.
Picture:
http://www.chinariders.net/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=1092

Back it out (counter clockwise) 1/2 turn at a time. Go ride and adjust again.

It starts right up and winds up like a clock now!
No problems riding in the rain. I does take some oil just like the stock.
Update:

I went ahead and moved the c-clip all the way down towards the pointy end of the needle, stuck it back it. It started up but was giving it waaaay too much fuel, so I messed with the screw that is linked in the above post. After messing around with that for about 10 min and th eright side screw, I got it back to normal idle and the throttle response is somewhat better I think.

So when you add a pod filter, move that c-clip all the way down!

[fatboy250]

Ours are on the bottom position with the K&N type filters with 2 1/2 turns out on the air/fuel mixture screw.

Jason

[red2003]

Jason, have you pulled a plug with those setting to see how she's burning? I'm getting ready to do t.eeh filter mod this weekend. Kinda like to do it right the first time, if you know what I mean. Thank Bud!

[fatboy250]

No, but there is no stumble on rolling acceleration and no backfire from WOT to zero thottle on decel. If it could run any better, I guess a dyno would be the only way to know for sure. But I've only got my seat of the pants to go on.

[PolygonFla]

With all the talk about air filter replacment, I decided I wanted to experament with the Pod/Cone/K&N style filter.

I just ordered one from Bike Bandit
http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/productlist~section_dept_id~1155115~terrain_dept_i d~1162358~cat_dept_id~1162542~product_dept_id~1162 547~selection_Path~3.asp
The link is for the 200cc honda replacement. I have a Zongshen so I ordered the Yamaha part but it looks exatly like the Honda one. the part numbers are different by one digit.

Anyway I will document how it goes.

[bfe71730]

I kinda sorta agree with OB1. The small filters are great for high performance engines, but for everyday use I'd stick with the larger foam type (UNI) if running with out the air box. Think about riding down a dirt road following your buddy and eating his dust with no goggles or eye protection, imagine how much of this it getting flitered by your engine....
BTW....RESPECT YOUR ELDERS... :wink:

[PolygonFla]

Is thist the type you are talking about?
http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/productlist~section_dept_id~1155115~terrain_dept_i d~1162358~cat_dept_id~2106025~product_dept_id~2106 180~selection_Path~3.asp

They cost 3X more but I do belive you get what you pay for.

I knew getting my China bike at 1/3 the cost of a Yamaha I would be making some sacrifice in quality somewhere. So far I am very satisfied with the compromise.
I just wonder if the Uni filter is;
1 worth the extra cost to protect a $500.00 engine
2 better performing than OEM or Pod (likely)
3 going to fit, with or without modification.

I might get one just because I like to experiment and I am willing to spend $30.00 to find out. If the pod type shows any HP gain I will try the Uni too.
:lol:

[ambassador]

Is there really a significant amount of HP increase with the pod filter?

[bfe71730]

There will be some power increase, but you will need to do some exhaust mods to get the most noticeable increase, I drilled several holes around the inner tip before I did any filter or carb adjustments.

[blimpman]

How would you attach the UNI Pod filter (referenced below) to the Carb?


Is thist the type you are talking about?
http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/productlist~section_dept_id~1155115~terrain_dept_i d~1162358~cat_dept_id~2106025~product_dept_id~2106 180~selection_Path~3.asp

I might get one just because I like to experiment and I am willing to spend $30.00 to find out. If the pod type shows any HP gain I will try the Uni too.
:lol:

[Roketarider]

Is there really a significant amount of HP increase with the pod filter?
I bored out the exhuast today at the end and it picked up a little bit. The pod filter I wouldn't say picked up a noticeable amount, but if you have done your bike in stages, you can feel a slight increase.

[ob1]

Mods will pay off when coordinated. Done as single items, increases in power will be less, sometimes to the negative!

My powertrain mods are Uni filter, filter firescreen stripped to one layer, port matched intake manifold, port matched exhaust port, White Bros CDI and Cobra exhaust. While mine is geared specifically for offroad, with a smaller rear sprocket, I would be a betting man!

Next time I have the exhaust header off, I will be doing some grinding and polishing in the exhaust port.

[bfe71730]

How would you attach the UNI Pod filter (referenced below) to the Carb?


Is thist the type you are talking about?
http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/productlist~section_dept_id~1155115~terrain_dept_i d~1162358~cat_dept_id~2106025~product_dept_id~2106 180~selection_Path~3.asp

I might get one just because I like to experiment and I am willing to spend $30.00 to find out. If the pod type shows any HP gain I will try the Uni too.
:lol:

this one goes in the air box, I've seen the UNI type that come off the carb just like the pod type, main difference is they are cylinder shaped and larger.

[fatboy250]

With all the talk about air filter replacment, I decided I wanted to experament with the Pod/Cone/K&N style filter.

I just ordered one from Bike Bandit
http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/productlist~section_dept_id~1155115~terrain_dept_i d~1162358~cat_dept_id~1162542~product_dept_id~1162 547~selection_Path~3.asp
The link is for the 200cc honda replacement. I have a Zongshen so I ordered the Yamaha part but it looks exatly like the Honda one. the part numbers are different by one digit.

Anyway I will document how it goes.

Just a side note, the one pictured is not the filter you will get. If you look closely it is a 76mm in the picture.

[Ferrit]

Just a little "scientific" data to throw into this discussion:

http://www.roadkill.com/~davet/moto/air.filters.html

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

[4xflyer]

For my JetmotoGY-A200 I use a uni filter#NU-4037ST (Honda ATC200 81-82). Cut the length to fit the stock cage (you can use your old filter as a pattern), you can get two double filters from each one.

If you choose to only run a single filter you can get four filters from one uni...I would use the single filter set-up only in zero to minimal dust situations.( these filters are of different densities.)

To me the big thing with the stock airbox is the base sealing of the filter cage against the airbox itself. Be sure that it is air/leak tight or the filter issue is mute!

Jetting didn't change and I used a filter oil to lightly!! impregnate each sleeve. Running a bit lean I will next drop the clip from the middle position as others have suggested.

For the price of $14. it is a very cost effective way to make use of your stock airbox at least with my bike.

I have considered using the gauze type clamp on type filter to allow the battery to be moved to the airbox area. I do know the Suzuki 250 DRZ battery works well with the Jetmoto, is about 400g lighter, is a sealed unit and is 3/4 the size of the stock 200GY-A battery....guess that'a another post topic.

[PolygonFla]

I just put on the "POD" type filter today. Man, That was a pain! But well worth the effort. I have only taken the bike for a short test run but it idles smoother and seems to accelerate a bit better. The bike seems to have more pep.

The reason it was such a pain is on the Sierra, two Philips head screws are right behind the frame. I had to remove a bunch of bolts to drop the battery box a half-inch to get to them. Once the filter sub box was removed I just slipped the pod on. I didn’t make any carb adjustments since the bike has been running rich from the beginning.

As soon as I get the pics uploaded I will edit this post and put in the links.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w37/polygonfla/AirBox.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w37/polygonfla/PodFilter.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w37/polygonfla/PodFilter.jpg


http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w37/polygonfla/TopView.jpg
If you click the link to the top view you can see that, it is positioned at a slight angle but doesn't interfere with the body panels.

[bfe71730]

Is that your clutch cable routed below the cam chain tensioner?

[PolygonFla]

Yes, the clutch cable attaches to a bracket at the base of the cylinder then to the top of the transmission case just behind the "QC04" sticker.

Are the Lifans significantly different?

[cycleway4]

yes...at least on the DB-07A, the cable attaches to the top of the right side crankcase cover [clutch cover]

[bfe71730]

Yes, they are different. everyone that I've seen on the lifans is located on the right side, like hondas. Your engine must be a yamaha design.

[ambassador]

Yes, my GY-5 is on the right side on the top of the crankcase, it's the old XR design...

[PolygonFla]

Oh, yes it is. I thought every one here knew that the Sierra is based on the Yamaha XT 200.

I looked at mdionis's gallery pics, he has a real good shot of the clutch cable attachment.

I just never paid any attention to the clutch cables on the Hondas. I never owned one. Just Kawasakis in my past :D

Hey! What ever works right!