Spark Plug Gap = Extra Power!?

[PorterzCustomz]

My plug came gaped about .020 This seemed very close and I was having very slight fouling problems when idleing for long periods of time causing the idle to die down after awhile and harder hot re-starting. I was confident my mixture was ideal for performance so I did not want to lean it out and decided to jump the gap out to .035 a (big jump) in a attempt to bring more spark to the cylinder for a better combustion. Turns out it worked good, in fact I noticed a decent performance gain! Just like advancing the timming changing the gap in most engines can add power or response. Alot of people don't know but if you get a hotter ignition system your suppose to increase gap to take advantage of the added energy anyway. If you go too far you will loose the spark so you need just the right gap for the best spark.

[red2003]

The reason you were fouling at idle is because you are way too rich with that big jet. Bigger gap makes no more power with a stock ignition. I'm sure it felt it to you after yours was bogging out so bad from all the fuel being choked into the cylinder.

[PorterzCustomz]

The reason you were fouling at idle is because you are way too rich with that big jet. Bigger gap makes no more power with a stock ignition. I'm sure it felt it to you after yours was bogging out so bad from all the fuel being choked into the cylinder.

115 is a very common jet to be used on here with intake and exhaust. All the people that use it are wrong and you know better? You told me to keep the stock jetting size. Your right it was running rich but it can be adjusted while using the 115. You may know about tunning carbs but that does not mean the 115 can't be used with the correct mixture and clip setting.

Even with a stock ignition you can take advantage of a larger gap. It is done conservatively just like the timming on our bikes or with any factory engine. A bigger gap can add power as long as the ignition can handle it, its well documented.

PS: I just noticed you yourself use bigger jetting, I guess its do as I say, not as I do :wink:

PSS: too many people on here like yourself get all anal if someone does not agree with them and then they go crying about how they won't help them anymore because they disagree. Grow up man we are all on here for the same reason, we can disagree on some things that don't mean we can't get along. I support Ron Paul, most of my friends do also, some of my friends support Obama but we can still get along and they are still my friends.

[red2003]

Porterz, you got a lot to learn. The difference between me and you is I DO know what I am doing and you are an insecure little punk who spouts off hoping others with just as little knowledge will follow. You have owned your bike for a few weeks and you think you know it all. That's typical kid mentality, I know it well as I have taught kids like you for over 14 years. Talking big doesn't earn you respect. Someday, you'll figure that out. I went to bat for you while others on this forum critisized your immature nature. I guess I am one to give the benifit of the doubt, but you are doing a good job of proving them right. Go back to the beginning of this forum, Page 1, and read through all the posts. See how often myself, and others, have helped people out. See how we help without trying to prove anyone else wrong. Just good advice and a helpful nature. See, that's what earns respect. Didication over time. I am sure you will be off this board soon. Probably when you run out of things to say to sound cool and knowledgable. Until then, I'll just ignore you and life will be well again.

[knothead]

Porterz, you got a lot to learn. The difference between me and you is I DO know what I am doing and you are an insecure little punk who spouts off hoping others with just as little knowledge will follow. You have owned your bike for a few weeks and you think you know it all. That's typical kid mentality, I know it well as I have taught kids like you for over 14 years. Talking big doesn't earn you respect. Someday, you'll figure that out. I went to bat for you while others on this forum critisized your immature nature. I guess I am one to give the benifit of the doubt, but you are doing a good job of proving them right. Go back to the beginning of this forum, Page 1, and read through all the posts. See how often myself, and others, have helped people out. See how we help without trying to prove anyone else wrong. Just good advice and a helpful nature. See, that's what earns respect. Didication over time. I am sure you will be off this board soon. Probably when you run out of things to say to sound cool and knowledgable. Until then, I'll just ignore you and life will be well again.

Bullsh1t!!
You get your panties in a wad anytime someone says something you disagree with, no matter how much evidence is presented to the contrary. There are several things you've said on here that have been just plain wrong, but you'd never fess up to it.
Nice to see you fall back on the "I'm superior because I'm older" argument, tells me you're grasping for a defense...

[PorterzCustomz]

Porterz, you got a lot to learn. The difference between me and you is I DO know what I am doing and you are an insecure little punk who spouts off hoping others with just as little knowledge will follow. You have owned your bike for a few weeks and you think you know it all. That's typical kid mentality, I know it well as I have taught kids like you for over 14 years. Talking big doesn't earn you respect. Someday, you'll figure that out. I went to bat for you while others on this forum critisized your immature nature. I guess I am one to give the benifit of the doubt, but you are doing a good job of proving them right. Go back to the beginning of this forum, Page 1, and read through all the posts. See how often myself, and others, have helped people out. See how we help without trying to prove anyone else wrong. Just good advice and a helpful nature. See, that's what earns respect. Didication over time. I am sure you will be off this board soon. Probably when you run out of things to say to sound cool and knowledgable. Until then, I'll just ignore you and life will be well again.

I don't even really have to respond because after reading your reply and your language dictates who the most immature one is. Pal im not a kid nor a child I am 26 years old. Perhaps if your a middle age man loosing your hair and no longer getting woman I guess you could see someone my age as a kid. I don't know it all about my bike, I have mechanical knowledge that I apply that is the same basic principles as on anything. Just read the tone of my first reply to you then the tone of your reply. Who is more mature? I did not have to snoop down to name calling and insults in fact I tried to show respect and agree that you seemed to know alot about carb tunning. Who is the one that is getting very angry and defensive here? Do you see me as a threat to your alpha male image?

If I am going to "be off the board soon" as you say for giving my opinion or point of view on something like how disk breaks are better then drum or how to tune a engine then I really don't want to be on it with people like yourself that appear to have a mid life crisis or alpha male syndrome that perhaps are struggling to prove them selfs important using an image on the internet because they are insecure and unsuccessful in real life then so be it.

When you have a different opinion about something and someone disagrees or challenges your know it all image you go wild. That is evident by your long rude response. People like that should not be on the board because they are in it for personal reasons, trying to create a image to gain respect not going on to learn and help others. Older people have much different view on style, design, methods exc. That does not necessarily mean that one is wrong and one is right. Learn to offer advice unconditionally and be more humble!!

I am tired of getting enemys for disagreeing about something or being brave enough to stand up and think for myself. If I disagree it is NOT a personal attack on you so stop taking it like one and STOP getting off topic to start an argument and hijack the post.

Thanks, and have a nice day, ride on! :D

[motohillbilly]

I aint takin side here but........ I have never heard of more horse power from bigger plug gap. Keep in mind these are not topfuel dragsters here. If a larger incorrect gap makes power it tells me that you have a carburation issue.That theroy is backed up by the fact that the plug fouled at idle. Bigger spark dosnt add fuel or air or compression, Once the spark happens and fuel ignites ... never mind.

[TeamCheap]

Ok I'm stepping in, not from my own first hand experience but from info from NGK's site (http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/installation.asp?nav=31300&country=US#gapping) I myself just gap as recommended.

3. Gapping

Since the gap size has a direct affect on the spark plug's tip temperature
and on the voltage necessary to ionize (light) the air/fuel mixture, careful attention is required. While it is a popular misconception that plugs are pre-gapped from the factory, the fact remains that the gap must be adjusted for the vehicle that the spark plug is intended for. Those with modified engines must remember that a modified engine with higher compression or forced induction will typically require a smaller gap settings (to ensure ignitability
in these denser air/fuel mixtures). As a rule, the more power you are making, the smaller the gap you will need.

A spark plug's voltage requirement is directly proportionate to the gap size. The larger the gap, the more voltage is needed to bridge the gap. Most experienced tuners know that opening gaps up to present a larger spark to the air/fuel mixture maximizes burn efficiency. It is for this reason that most racers add high power ignition systems. The added power allows them to open the gap yet still provide a strong spark.

With this mind, many think the larger the gap the better. In fact, some aftermarket ignition systems boast that their systems can tolerate gaps that are extreme. Be wary of such claims. In most cases, the largest gap you can run may still be smaller than you think.

EDIT : oh and from the looks of NGK's info that both of you guys are correct with the deciding factor going to specifics about a given engine setup.

I'll be looking into how/what the real world tuners are doing as this is from a spark plug manufacturers site.

[Cal25]

Happy birthdays Porters :!:
I must have been busy and missed both your birtdays since March 20 :roll:

[SpeedSouth]

Happy birthdays Porters :!:
I must have been busy and missed both your birtdays since March 20 :roll:


8O .... :lol:

[PorterzCustomz]

Happy birthdays Porters :!:
I must have been busy and missed both your birtdays since March 20 :roll:

Is that what is says? hmm.. It's actually Christmas day but thanks! :D

[PorterzCustomz]

I aint takin side here but........ I have never heard of more horse power from bigger plug gap. Keep in mind these are not topfuel dragsters here. If a larger incorrect gap makes power it tells me that you have a carburation issue.That theroy is backed up by the fact that the plug fouled at idle. Bigger spark dosnt add fuel or air or compression, Once the spark happens and fuel ignites ... never mind.

"Most experienced tuners know that opening gaps up to present a larger spark to the air/fuel mixture maximizes burn efficiency."

That's how it works. :D The stock gap is usually conservative for your ignition system just like the timming.

[knothead]

Oops!
For the record. I run my plug gapped at .027". It does fine, the plug looks good even after 2000 miles at WOT!

[motohillbilly]

Most tuners also know that you cant make a mazaradi out of a mazda. I own a small engine shop and have been a mechanic for over 20 years. I cant wait til I get some exsperiance.

[VinceDrake]

Put one in for agree with Porter. Decreasing gap advances ignition timing ever so slightly. (According to Bosch Approx. .5 degree per .010") Especially in lovely distributorless cars, it's the best and most economical way to give the timing a slight bump (Until you run into the knock sensor!)

Long story short-- Larger gap, larger spark, longer coil collapse time. A larger spark gap requires the coil's electrical field to collapse further, to supply enough voltage to jump the gap. The beginning of the field collapse happens at the same time, just it take longer to jump the gap.

If you are really bored take your eternal 350 Chevy (Stock gap C.1990, .045") and put in a set of fine wire Iridium-type plugs, but close up the gap to .025" Do not touch the dist. Take timing light readings before and after (ECM wire discon. both times.) I Guarantee you the ignition timing, read with your timing light will have advanced. Try it!

Therefore: (I always wanted to say that!) Sparkplugs alter ignition timing and cylendar head temperature. Larger Gap=Retarded timing, and Hotter Head Temp. Very Plausible.

So Yeah, If you bothered reading this here's a little bump for your car, if you're interested...

For Ethanol blended fuel users-- Put a fine wire type plug, 1 - 2 heat ranges cooler, and close up the gap .010" Advances the timing slightly, and cools your cylendar head temperature slightly (Aprrox. 30 degrees.) Works excellently on Non-adjustable Fuel Injected cars. Doesn't work worth Schmidt on Motorcycles though. (Fouls too badly on Start-up)

Cloak of Lurkage Re-installed....
--Vince

[driller]

"I ran it up to 10000 rpm is that right?" yea let's listen to this guy :roll:

Porterz, pick your battles carefully, Red has been helping here since the beginning with calm good advice, I think he is one of the most respected members here. :x :x

[motohillbilly]

Porter take it to a shop and have it dinoed. If it makes more hp I will pay for it. I promise you it aint .

[gdavis2265]

I've never felt a "seat of the pants' horsepower improvement on a plug gap.

do you guys remember all the amazing claims that were made about those splitfire sparkplugs? mine is gapped at .7 (metric) which is what the book calls for. runs good.

[PorterzCustomz]

"I ran it up to 10000 rpm is that right?" yea let's listen to this guy :roll:


that is not my quote, you made that up. I don't know about your tac but on mine it says redline is around 11 grand. Maybe I have a different tac then you do..

I take my busa up to 18 grand, 8O and I do it basically every other ride its still running strong you know why? because the redline is 19K

[PorterzCustomz]

Porter take it to a shop and have it dinoed.

You mean your engine shop does not have a "dino", I mean dyno?

It has a better feel and is more responsive its not a "seat of your pants" feel I never said it was.

[PorterzCustomz]

Most tuners also know that you cant make a mazaradi out of a mazda. I own a small engine shop and have been a mechanic for over 20 years. I cant wait til I get some exsperiance.

Your right, but I can still take an 11 year old NA mustang, put a few hundred worth of bolts on's into it and still hit over 160 mph!!!

You can make anything you want out of what you have for much much less. That was back in H.S the only difference now is that I CAN make a Mazzaradi out of a Mazda :wink:

http://thumbs.streetfire.net/4dfabc3a-a95b-4b79-86d9-e52f024a2821.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/162-MPH-in-my-1997-SVT-Mustang-Cobra_30466.htm)162 MPH in my 1997 S.V.T Mustang Cobra (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/162-MPH-in-my-1997-SVT-Mustang-Cobra_30466.htm)

[AZ200cc]

This whole argument reminds of when splitfires first came out, And people thought they would get some massive HP increase from them.....Kinda funny actually.

[red2003]

I don't know about your tac but on mine it says redline is around 11 grand. Maybe I have a different tac then you do..



Max horsepower on these 200 cc China motors is at 8000 rpm. No need to rev beyond that. Just making noise and burning gas.

[knothead]

Most tuners also know that you cant make a mazaradi out of a mazda. I own a small engine shop and have been a mechanic for over 20 years. I cant wait til I get some exsperiance.

A buddy of mine has a 450hp Honda hatch, full suspension kit, full cage... I'd dare say a stock Maserati would be hard put to keep up with that car. I know for a fact that a stock Corvette is no match! So in reality, that's what tuners do, take a regular Mazda, Honda, VW, etc... and build it to run and handle as close to a high end sportscar as possible. Ever heard the term "Urban Exotic"?

Heck, I know a guy who races go-carts and is getting around 30hp from a 5hp briggs tiller engine running nitro methane.I'm certain that these 200cc Chinese engines have a good deal of potential as well.

[culcune]

I'm certain that these 200cc Chinese engines have a good deal of potential as well.

Yes, but don't emphasize the Chinese part :lol: