Spitballing ideas for PA registration?

[Caz]

Hi I was looking at the hawk 250 for a first bike due to its simplicity (price dosent hurt ethier!) But my state is waaay overbearing on vehicle laws. I have seen alot of threads on here and other places that give me some ideas as far as getting it titled here.


1. Vermont method.

2. Specific Constructed Vehicle title -
I think this one may be promising for PA owners as you could possibly claim the motorcycle came in a kit and you built it (for most people that looks to be pretty truthful)
3.Used car lot -

Given that car lots can fill it most paper work for vehicles they may be more lenient on the vehicle being more "out there"





Can any PA owners walk me through how they got their hawk (or other) street legal in the commenwealth?

[franque]

Just do the Vermont method. It's legal, and you don't have to lie to get the plate.

[Emerikol]

Just do the Vermont method. It's legal, and you don't have to lie to get the plate.

↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑
This times 2! Vermont will be the easiest way to get a plate on the bike, and the close proximity of VT to PA will not likely raise too many eyebrows on the local police force.

[culcune]

This place won't ship to California, Pennsylvania, or New Jersey (scroll down in the ad). Generally, others might not ship to you, either. I am sure there are those that will. That being said, if the Vermont route works for you and you are comfortable doing that, than go for it! Otherwise, you might want to consider a different bike; however, I do understand the draw of the Hawk being its pricepoint.

https://www.superiorpowersports.com/250cc_Dirt_Bike_p/hensim250db-hawk.htm

Edit: the same dealer shows the Taotao TBR7 for sale and 'in stock' (many dealers have sold out and have shown 'out of stock' on their sites for months). I know that the Tao is 49 state street legal (Californians need not apply) so you might have better luck with registration in PA.

https://www.superiorpowersports.com/250_Gas_Motorcycle_p/tt250mc-tbr7.htm

[Caz]

Okay I'll check out the TBR7, My biggest concern right now is some notary places requiring a notorized MCO/MSO. In addition to that does anyone know the nada value for these bikes? Assuming I need to go the vermont route I may have to provide the nada value plus 6 percent for the fees when registering over there

[franque]

Just do purchase price.

[TheChairman]

I had no issues at all registering my TT250 in PA.

As long as your certificate of origin is legit, they'll take it.

Your notary is probably just pulling your chain.

[culcune]

I had no issues at all registering my TT250 in PA.

As long as your certificate of origin is legit, they'll take it.

Your notary is probably just pulling your chain.

The TT250 is one of 2 50 state street legal Chinese dual-sports available in the US (the other is the SSR XF250), so there shouldn't be an issue. However, I have seen online vendors mentioning in their ads for certain dual-sports that not only will they not ship to California, but they include NJ and PA as well. California has had CARB certification for California-legal vehicles for decades, but many Chinese bikes are 49-state legal according to the EPA/DOT certification list. It appears NJ and PA are overstepping their bounds by declaring they are banning certain vehicles. So it makes sense that certain bikes will seemingly not be able to be registered in PA.

[TheChairman]

I'd be curious to see which won't ship to PA. That's very strange. We have emissions inspections in metro areas but they aren't completely CARB compliant.

As for our safety inspections, my TT250 passed. Motorcycle inspectors are notoriously lenient for obvious reasons, though.

As far as NJ, their motorcycles are self inspect now. The only reason I could think they wouldn't ship there is the manufacturer isn't on their "list" yet.

[culcune]

I'd be curious to see which won't ship to PA. That's very strange.

As for our safety inspections, my TT250 passed.

The TT250 is the only 'Hondoid' dual-sport that is 50-state legal including CARB.

Here is one example of a bike not CA, PA or NJ legal
https://www.superiorpowersports.com/250cc_Dirt_Bike_Vitacci_Raven_250_Enduro_Motor_p/vt250db-raven.htm

but, the same vendor with a known EPA/DOT 49-state legal bike only lists CA as the one state they won't ship to: https://www.superiorpowersports.com/250_Gas_Motorcycle_p/tt250mc-tbr7.htm

My guess is it comes down to EPA certified as 'Off-Road Dirtbike vs. EPA/DOT certified as an 'On-Highway Motorcycle' which are 49-state legal.

[ohhwerd]

Did you find anything more out about registering it in PA?

[CheapThrills]

I purchased a TBR7 several weeks back. I filed paperwork registering it, here in Pa, but have not received any paperwork in return from the State. Anyone having problems with TBR7's and Pa registration process?


Thx!!

[Joe Schutts]

Hi Everyone,


I am considering buying a Venom x22R from Venom Motor Sports and am trying to find out IF ANYONE HERE (in PA) has been able to get THIS PARTICULAR BIKE Registered OR Tagged here in PA???


I am retired and CANNOT AFFORD to be wasting $2300.00 on something I CANNOT (LEGALLY DRIVE) here in PA.


Also, WHAT EXACTLY is this "Vermont Method" everyone is talking about??? And how does it work???


Thanks for the help in this matter everyone...


Joe...


:hmm:

[franque]

Vermont doesn't title motorcycles under 300ccs, or vehicles over 15 years old. All they require is a bill of sale, not even in-state residency is required for the registration. They also don't issue a title for vehicles in the above category, but instead a registration that can be exchanged for a title in another state.

Have fun!

https://www.motorcyclezombies.com/register-title-motorcycle/register-old-motorcycle-vermont/

[CheapThrills]

For the Vermont-method, does it require the actual MCO or just a copy of the bill of sale/invoice?


Inquiring minds want to know...

[TheChairman]

For the Vermont-method, does it require the actual MCO or just a copy of the bill of sale/invoice?


Inquiring minds want to know...

For Vermont, you will need the MCO, Bill of Sale, and the VIN number verified by someone legally able to verify the VIN in the state the bike is located. For PA, this is ANY licensed inspector including a car or heavy truck inspector. Submit a PennDOT MV-41 form to Vermont for the VIN verification.

You will also have to remit to Vermont applicable sales tax along with your registration fees.

[CheapThrills]

My experience so far..... Visited a notary, filled out paperwork, Vin verification, paid fees/taxes, submitted my MCO and bill of sale. Pa declined(rejected) the registration/title process. Stated the motorcycle was not 'complete' when I received it, so it has to go through an enhanced inspection process.


Mechanic/Inspection Updates:


Quotes $200-150. < 1 hr to compete. Will update later if it passes.

[TheChairman]

My experience so far..... Visited a notary, filled out paperwork, Vin verification, paid fees/taxes, submitted my MCO and bill of sale. Pa declined(rejected) the registration/title process. Stated the motorcycle was not 'complete' when I received it, so it has to go through an enhanced inspection process.


Mechanic/Inspection Updates:


Quotes $200-150. < 1 hr to compete. Will update later if it passes.

My guess is PennDOT is wising up and realized some of these bikes come disassembled. They are requiring enhanced inspection to ensure they are assembled correctly, since a PA licensed dealer (and by virtue, inspector) is not handling them for final sale. Some inspector in Philly or The Burgh probably slapped a sticker on some poorly assembled Amazon special, the forks fell off, and a law suit ensued. Now PennDOT is involved and ruining it for everyone as usual.

Dealers like CSC may have to finally start selling their bikes as CSC motorcycles rather than Zongshen motorcycles with CSC stickers in order to get around this. More work on their part, which means more expense, which means higher prices. YAY! >:

As a licensed inspector I can tell you your experience should be simple, just more expensive. Part of the enhanced process is part source verification. Since your bike all came new in the same box, this will be MUCH easier than inspecting say, a kit car or a home built vehicle.

[illdose]

Because of covid19 in Pa, it took me 4 months to get title and registration for my TBR7. I went thru a regular tag service. Gave them the MCO paided the fees, they sent off all paper work to the DMV. And 4 months later title and registration was sent to my home. Just so you know not all tag places are the same in PA. If one gives you a problem try another place.

[culcune]

And 4 months later title and registration was sent to my home. Just so you know not all tag places are the same in PA. If one gives you a problem try another place.
After all was said and done, would you consider the 4 months wait a 'problem' and you should have tried a different tag place, OR just part of the general slowdown among the mess?

[culcune]

Dealers like CSC may have to finally start selling their bikes as CSC motorcycles rather than Zongshen motorcycles with CSC stickers in order to get around this. More work on their part, which means more expense, which means higher prices. YAY!

I am surprised they are not doing so considering the EPA/DOT certificates for all their bikes have CSC as the company of record. In other words, CSC, not Zongshen, is paying for the federal EPA/DOT certificates and CARB certification for California. That is why they name the bikes with different names in general vs. straight up Zongshen names shown on their Chinese site.

This is different than other companies. Bashan, for instance, is the manufacturer of record for EPA/DOT certification. Their certificate lists names of bikes; some we have and have had, and others we don't have--seems to be common practice with some Chinese manufacturers in case they end up bringing certain model names over. One model is listed on the Bashan certificate, the CR250 which is sold by BMS as the 250 CRP. But, the MCO lists it as a Bashan bike as opposed to a BMS.

[illdose]

After all was said and done, would you consider the 4 months wait a 'problem' and you should have tried a different tag place, OR just part of the general slowdown among the mess?

Yeah 4 months is a problem in my opinion. The tag place was shut down for covid19 at first, then the state decided to open those, but the DMV was still shut down and their workers still working from home i was told. I personally believe the DMV to be essential workers. But my state saw it differently.

[Oltzer]

Went to local Notary today and was able to get all paperwork done and temporary registration along with a plate right away without any issue. He said Penndot is taking forever for the permanent registration probably at least a month but the temporary registration is good through July.

He was really intrigued by the China bike as well.

[adb1779]

Hi,
I went to a tag place in Warminster PA a couple of weeks ago. I was told it would take 4 to 6 weeks to get my tag because the VIN begins with "L" so I am still waiting. I was also told no one has been rejected. So it is a waiting game to get my 2021 TBR7 on the road.

[JimmyT]

Hi,
I went to a tag place in Warminster PA a couple of weeks ago. I was told it would take 4 to 6 weeks to get my tag because the VIN begins with "L" so I am still waiting. I was also told no one has been rejected. So it is a waiting game to get my 2021 TBR7 on the road.

Any updates on this?!?!?!

[Joe Schutts]

What local notary did you use??? Do you have a phone number by any chance???

[JAinWO]

Mine was approved. Had some issues with the VIN database they use, but CSC got it all cleared up pronto. Their customer service is really great.

[su98]

just bought my 2016 CSCTT250 - Pgh Pa
VIN # LZSJCNTxxxxxxxxxxxxx - he produced a Pa title
from the nicest guy on craiglist a few "shops " would not touch to inspect 5/2022
i have been going to the same notary ... 20 min transfer

[Cydrik]

just bought my 2016 CSCTT250 - Pgh Pa
VIN # LZSJCNTxxxxxxxxxxxxx - he produced a Pa title
from the nicest guy on craiglist a few "shops " would not touch to inspect 5/2022
i have been going to the same notary ... 20 min transfer

How was the inspection/registration/title process for you in Pittsburgh? I tried going to AAA to do my registration/title with the bill of sale, MCO, proof of insurance but this was not enough. I was told I needed a notarized MCO and the VIN verified by an inspector or police. They acted like they wanted nothing to do with my bike cause the VIN starts with an "L"

[su98]

4123419972 CYA Messenger Services. I have been there numerous times - got a title for my 1980 KZ waited - 5 weeks ish. you can voice call & ask. the inspection was 30 min 4126509650 Cycle Service Center. Jeff took me right now. just stopped in. I have 500 miles so nothing needed checked lights & a quick once over $40 my biggest headache was insurance Geico $100 for a year, better you have an M on your license & recent class / no tickets or accidents registration - 100 plates 22 good luck

[Joe Schutts]

Hi Everyone,

Just a quick note to tell everyone that (OFFICIALLY) I am NOW LEGAL in PA. I live in the Harrisburg area (Camp Hill actually).

As some of you have seen from my last posts, I have had a hell of a time just getting this bike (an X22R) delivered to my house.

Then I was worried that once I got my bike I might have a hard time (or even an impossible one) getting the bike registered and plated here in PA. I was worried sick that I wouldn't be able to get the bike legal (here) in PA and would have to find an alternative route to get it registered (possibly in someplace else) to a point where I could drive it here (or even anywhere else).

After all this worry and fear, I can honestly say that the amount of time that I spent at PA Auto License Brokers was a HUGE weight off my shoulders. Thanks PA Auto License Brokers... You guys rock...

I went to PA Auto License Brokers (on the Carlisle Pike) and they did ALL the paperwork for me and even gave me a NEW license plate (woo-hoo)... I am NOW LEGAL here in PA...

If you live in (or even NEAR) the Harrisburg, PA area, I highly recommend PA Auto License Brokers. Altogether it took me about 1/2 an hour to do ALL the paperwork and the young lady who took care of me (I wish I knew her name) was super helpful and friendly... Give them a shot, I don't think you'll be disappointed, I know I wasn't...

Here is the rundown on what I paid for, based on my bike selling for $2,449.99. If your bike was more than mine, than it might cost you a little more money...

I Hope this helps...

Joe...

==========================


If the purchase price is $2,449.99 these will be the fees:

$146.99 – sales tax,
$21.00 – registration fee,
$5.00 – county fee,
$58.00 – title fee,
$46.00 – Our fee,
$10.00 – electronic processing, and
$17.00 – plate fee.

This comes out to a total of $303.99.

First of all we will need either an out-of-state title, or MSO (Certificate Of Origin). Plus Proof Of Insurance (Hard Copy).

These will need to be filled out correctly by your seller. We will take a look at these documents when you come in. Next we will need your Pennsylvania Driver's License or State ID. As well as Pennsylvania Motorcycle Insurance.

Finally, the motorcycle's VIN will need to be verified either by us (the bike would need to be present) or a PA Inspection Mechanic on an MV-41.

I have attached that form here, if needed. If you have any more questions feel free to contact me. or call us back at (717)-691-6720

Monday – Tuesday & Thursday = 9:00 – 6:45
Wednesday & Friday = 9:00 – 4:45
Saturday = 9:00 – 12:45


6483 Carlisle Pike #104,
Mechanicsburg, PA. 17050
(on the Left PAST the Aldi’s Store…)
:thanks:

[JAinWO]

Just note that a title transfer is not the same as getting a new bike registered for the first time. The notary (messenger in Monroevile) was not the issue - they were great - got a plate and a temporary registration right way. The issue was w the state. They rejected it as the national database they use for VIN was returning a whole different bike/manufacturer that was not street legal. Called CSC and they realized it was entered wrong into national database. They redid it. After a few days, I checked the database and it was updated correctly. I had to resubmit it all and the state eventually approved it. On a side note, Valley Motorcycle in East McKeesport inspected it.

[Joe Schutts]

Hi,

I'm not sure where in PA you're located (I'm in the ((Camp Hill)) Harrisburg area) and I have an X22R that I got registered without any problems.

I've included a previous post of what I did to get my bike registered in PA. You might want to do the same...

Good luck...

Joe...


:thanks:


Hello Everyone,

I see that some people are still having problems registering their Chinese bikes in PA. I too thought that I would have problems registering my Venom X22R, but I was wrong. I took my bike (unregistered ((but WITH Insurance)) and with NO LICENSE PLATE - with a buddy covering my rear end) and ALL my paperwork to PA Auto License Brokers (on the Carlisle Pike before the Walmart store) and they took care of everything for me... Thanks again PA Auto License Brokers...

I posted a notice here back in June 2020 describing everything that I went through when I went to PA Auto License Brokers to register my bike. I will post another copy here so anyone can read about my experiences with them, and see how easy (and painless) the whole process really was...

Now whether or not this covers other makes and models of Chinese bikes, I have no idea, but it should be a simple thing to find out by calling PA Auto License Brokers on the phone and asking them about it. They are SUPER FRIENDLY and KNOWLEDGEABLE so they should be able to help answer any questions you might have... Give them a call and find out...

Here is my previous post that I made back in June 2020... I hope this helps... Take care...

========================

Hi Everyone,

Just a quick note to tell everyone that (OFFICIALLY) I am NOW LEGAL in PA.

As some of you have seen from my last posts, I have had a hell of a time just getting this bike delivered to my house.

Then I was worried that once I got my bike I might have a hard time (or even an impossible one) getting the bike registered and plated here in PA. I was worried sick that I wouldn't be able to get the bike legal (here) in PA and would have to find an alternative route to get it registered (someplace else) to a point where I could drive it here (or even anywhere else).

After all this worry and fear, I can honestly say that the amount of time I spent at PA Auto License Brokers was a HUGE weight off my shoulders. Thanks PA Auto License Brokers... You guys rock...

I went to PA Auto License Brokers (on the Carlisle Pike) and they did ALL the paperwork for me and even gave me a NEW license plate (woo-hoo)... I am NOW LEGAL here in PA...

If you live in (or even NEAR) Harrisburg, PA I highly recommend PA Auto License Brokers. Altogether it took me about 1/2 an hour to do ALL the paperwork and the young lady who took care of me was super helpful and friendly... Give them a shot, I don't think you'll be disappointed, I know I wasn't...

Here is the rundown on what I paid for, based on my bike selling for $2,449.99. If your bike was more than mine, than it might cost you more money...

Hope this helps...

Joe...

==========================


If the purchase price is $2,449.99 these will be the fees:

$146.99 – sales tax,
$21.00 – registration fee,
$5.00 – county fee,
$58.00 – title fee,
$46.00 – Our fee,
$10.00 – electronic processing, and
$17.00 – plate fee.

This comes out to a total of $303.99.

First of all we will need either an out-of-state title, or MSO (Certificate Of Origin). Plus Proof Of Insurance (Hard Copy).

These will need to be filled out correctly by your seller. We will take a look at these documents when you come in. Next we will need your Pennsylvania driver's license or state ID. As well as Pennsylvania motorcycle insurance.

Finally, the motorcycle's VIN will need to be verified either by us (the bike would need to be present) or a PA inspection mechanic on an MV-41.

I have attached that form here, if needed. If you have any more questions feel free to contact me. or call us back at (717)-691-6720

Monday – Tuesday & Thursday = 9:00 – 6:45
Wednesday & Friday = 9:00 – 4:45
Saturday = 9:00 – 12:45


6483 Carlisle Pike #104, Mechanicsburg, PA 17050
On the left PAST the Aldi’s Store…

:thanks: