What Oil Should I Use for Best Clutch/Transmission Performance?

[Boatguy]

So it’s time to get rid of the break in oil in my Lifan x-pect and start in a permanent oil.

I still have the problem of it not being easy to get into neutral from 1st, so I’d like to use the oil with the best chance of fixing that.

What oil should I use to get the best performance from the clutch and transmission?

[Boatguy]

Damn. I must have worded this badly.

What brand and viscosity engine would you recommend to get optimum performance from the clutch and transmission in the Lifan 200 air cooled engine?

[China Rider 27]

If there was a vote here on the forum, most likely Shell Rotella T-4 and T-6 would win the choice. It is inexpensive, has several grades 5-40 to 15-40, is clutch rated, and appears to be of excellent quality with a history of working very well in the CG motor. I personally prefer a full synthetic post break in which may be a little more slippery.

[Skyd]

It's a highly controversial topic and the source of many opinions and arguments but I'll 2nd the Rotella. I'm using T4 for break in and I'll switch to T6 after a bit. I'm running 15w40

[China Rider 27]

Another approach would be to use some MOTUL motorcycle oil (amazon) for around $15 a quart highly regarded as one the best oils and see if that fixes the neutral issue.

[Boatguy]

Ok, cool! Thanks!

I ran Rotella 15-w40 t4 as break in oil. I’ll try the t6 to see how it goes for the shifting issue, then try the Motul if I’m still having the shifting issue.

Definitely don’t want to start oil wars. Ha ha ha.

This is a special case where I’m actually having a little lube problem making it hard to get into neutral. So I figured I’d ask.

[trez00d]

Another rep for T4. The engine and clutch may still need some breaking in before it'll hit neutral like that, my hawk took a while but now I can hit it every time.

[J4Fun]

I use Rotella 15-40 with good results on my 03' V-Rod that I've had since new and plan on using it for the Hawk. I think it will be a good choice for these bikes!

[herbie]

If it’s hard to find neutral when it’s cold, it’s probably an adjustment issue. If it happens only when it’s hot then most likely you would benefit from a heavier viscosity oil. I liked to run Honda G4 20w50 in hotter months

[Boatguy]

If it’s hard to find neutral when it’s cold, it’s probably an adjustment issue. If it happens only when it’s hot then most likely you would benefit from a heavier viscosity oil. I liked to run Honda G4 20w50 in hotter months

Ok, that’s some good info! Thanks!

It’s only ever been hot AF when I ride this thing so that’s probably a factor.

[franque]

Even with the clutch properly adjusted, this design is hard to find neutral when warmed up and even fully broken in, if not moving. I have an NX125 (Honda) with about 14k miles, and when I stop at a light, if I want to be in neutral, I need to glide forward and be quick to get into neutral, or I need to shut off the engine when I'm stopped.

[Megadan]

Old Honda transmission designs in general were always a pain to find neutral. Even my GL1000 could be a little finicky about it. Almost always easier to get neutral from 2nd rather than 1st gear.

[krat]

I sort of look at it from the other perspective. Rotella is good, especially in bull dozers, tractors and Kawasaki DR650 applications, but I like to have motorcycle blend in my bikes.

The CG250 only uses one quart of oil. You can go to Autozone and buy a quart of Lucas motorcycle blend specially suited to wet clutch applications for $10. I can afford $10 every 1000 miles.

It is 20/50 and we will need that 50 rating during the summer with these air cooled engines. The 50 rating cools better.

As for the finding neutral difficulty, I can not see the need for concern. The only time I use neutral is when I am putting on my helmet. Any other time I pull the clutch lever and if I put on my helmet before I start the bike I can live without that green light shining for a long time.

[Big Bird]

I have found a technique that works for my bike. When its fully warmed up it likes to skip past neutral. I found that if I just do a light tap with my foot I can get it in there instead of a more solid push or pull.

I use rotella t4 also. I noticed they even have jaso ma/ma2 on the bottle now. So their shouldn't be any more confusion about using "diesel oil".

[CheapThrills]

I found neutral real easy, just wait for light to turn green, gun it in first, then shift up and gun it again. Listen to your engine scream as the bike slows down. :p


However, after break in(have 2000+km) still have problems and gets worse with temp, so cable needs adjustment as engine warms up. 2nd to neutral seems easier at times.

[Boatguy]

Has anyone actually been able to buy quarts of Rotella T6 15w40??

I went to 3 different stores (Walmart, Advance Auto and AutoZone). Only one store has it at all and they had one, single gallon on the shelf. I need a quart and don’t live in a house so I can’t store things.

I also did a search on Amazon. All gallons.

Do you just buy gallons and store it?

[Boatguy]

I sort of look at it from the other perspective. Rotella is good, especially in bull dozers, tractors and Kawasaki DR650 applications, but I like to have motorcycle blend in my bikes.

The CG250 only uses one quart of oil. You can go to Autozone and buy a quart of Lucas motorcycle blend specially suited to wet clutch applications for $10. I can afford $10 every 1000 miles.

It is 20/50 and we will need that 50 rating during the summer with these air cooled engines. The 50 rating cools better.

As for the finding neutral difficulty, I can not see the need for concern. The only time I use neutral is when I am putting on my helmet. Any other time I pull the clutch lever and if I put on my helmet before I start the bike I can live without that green light shining for a long time.


The only motorcycle blend I found at the auto parts stores was a Mobil one. They had a “racing” 10w40 and a “V-twin” 20w50. Both full synthetic.

Are these any good?

I didn’t see any Lucas motorcycle blends

https://www.mobil.com/lubricants/-/media/project/wep/mobil/mobil-row-us-1/us-image-remediation/us-products/mobil-1-racing-4t-1qt/mobil-1-racing-4t-1qt-fs-product.jpg

Mobil “racing” oil


https://www.mobil.com/lubricants/-/media/project/wep/mobil/mobil-row-us-1/us-image-remediation/us-products/mobil-1-v-twin-20w-50-1qt/mobil-1-v-twin-20w-50-1qt-fs-product.jpg

Mobil V twin.


I was thinking about getting the v twin because it is made for hot running air cooled engines. But I have no idea.

Any suggestions on these ones that are actually available? Or where to get T6 Rotella in quarts?

[Boatguy]

I found neutral real easy, just wait for light to turn green, gun it in first, then shift up and gun it again. Listen to your engine scream as the bike slows down. :p


However, after break in(have 2000+km) still have problems and gets worse with temp, so cable needs adjustment as engine warms up. 2nd to neutral seems easier at times.

Oh yeah!! Mine loves to do that too! The ONLY time I can get neutral is off the green light at an intersection. Ha ha ha.

I’m always in extreme heat with this bike, so maybe that’s a factor. Looking forward to getting out of Florida and to some cooler riding temps.

[cycleway4]

Has anyone actually been able to buy quarts of Rotella T6 15w40??

I went to 3 different stores (Walmart, Advance Auto and AutoZone). Only one store has it at all and they had one, single gallon on the shelf. I need a quart and don’t live in a house so I can’t store things.

I also did a search on Amazon. All gallons.

Do you just buy gallons and store it?

In the past,...NAPA has been suggested for the 1-qt bottles.

[RedCrowRides]

Just my 2 cents but i would tend to avoid running the super slippery full synthetic oil types, this is fine in Jap Bikes with newer engine designs and materials but these Chinese engines are very old tech and the clutch plates are old school pieces designed for use in primarily 3rd world Nations where they are widely popular and whose market is vastly huger than the tiny amount of China bikes sold in the US- These nations buyers generally do not have the funds to buy expensive synthetic oils and so the engines are built with that consideration ,to operate on "standard" motor oils.Full synth blends may actually be TOO " slippery" for the clutch plates and trans designs and cause issues.Anyone who has owned a China bike and seen first hand the excuse for oils, greases, and brake fluids they arrive with from the factory can see that any quality , non synth product is by itself a HUGE upgrade.



What i'm trying to say is i run a full synth in my much newer design street bike which was designed and built by the factory for use with full synth oils ,and i run non synth oils in my China Bike because that is what it was designed for , at least those using the old CG clone engine designs.That engine is a 30 year old design , when full synth engine oils were only in their infancy and not widely available .

[cycleway4]

As mentioned on these forums before,...don't over-think the oil choice. In the CG's engine intended market many years ago,...they would be lucky to see any oil changes, let alone being actually maintained...and they survived. Shell T4 (and T6 if you want synthetic) are both very well proven oils, in the severe heavy duty/service markets,..as well as in motorcycles for probably many, many years now. I know of a few GoldWing riders (1100/1200) that have run T4 for well over 100,000 miles, with never an issue...and its rarely (if ever) changed at the short intervals talked about on these forums...........proper viscosity, and the JASO rating,.. is way more important than the "high dollar brand-name" on the outside of the bottle. Honestly,..at the 300 to 500 mile change intervals some people do,..you could probably use Family Dollar Store 10-40 with fantastic results...at a dollar a quart.

[Boatguy]

Ok. Since the clutch is bathed in the oil and I’m having issues with getting into neutral reliably, I was thinking of changing from Rotella T4 to something else that might help the neutral issue. But I had no idea what.

I’m at 1000 miles and have only run Rotella t4 15w40 from the first time the engine was started.


I figured t6 was a good thing to try to see if I could improve the neutral issue.

Definitely open to suggestions though.

[herbie]

I bought my quarts of T6 from my local walmart. But honestly I would check into the honda oil, I was surprised how cheap it was at the local Honda dealer plus you help support the dealer to keep the doors open. I think a gallon of GN4 was like $18, not sure what a quart would be. In comparison a gallon of T6 at walmart is $21

[Bruces]

The Honda gn4 is nothing at all special other than the Honda sticker and price tag ,nothing wrong with it ,but also nothing to wet yourself with excitement because you have it either .The Castrol motorcycle oil sold at wallyworld is good cheap oil .

[China Rider 27]

If I didn't have two China bikes and constantly in the mix doing upgrades and maintenance that eat up my motorcycle spending budget and combined with the fact I like to change oil often I would go for that Motul just to see if it would make a difference in that shifting issue. These bikes to me are all about the experimenting, something I would be hesitant to do on an expensive bike. Barring that any reasonable quality oil should work. One thing I like about Rotella is that it has a high ZDDP level a chemical used before the days of catalytic converters with a reputation as an anti wear additive and hence found in the diesel designation. Even MOTUL says there oil is "safe for catalytic converts" given the modern requirements.

https://www.amazon.com/Motul-7100-10w40-Synthetic-1-Liter/dp/B00C72MCUU/ref=psdc_15719391_t2_B0022ZFY2A

[Boatguy]

Ok, I think I’ll try to track down a quart of T6 to start. Maybe at different Walmarts or auto parts stores next oil change. I picked up the only thing I could find in quarts which was the t4.

Money isn’t an issue at all. I just can’t carry the extra weight of a gallon of oil I don’t need. It all adds up.

[mototech77]

You’ve gotten a lot of responses already but I’ll throw mine in if you are interested. I changed to Amsoil 30w Break-in oil before first startup, based on recommendations from other Lifan Xpect riders. The engine runs quietly and smoothly with no clutch or shifting issues. Once I have finished the break in period, I am changing to Amsoil 10w-40 Metric Motorcycle oil (I used a little bit of this on top of the initial quart of break-in oil to get to top fill line).

[Megadan]

Just my 2 cents but i would tend to avoid running the super slippery full synthetic oil types, this is fine in Jap Bikes with newer engine designs and materials but these Chinese engines are very old tech and the clutch plates are old school pieces designed for use in primarily 3rd world Nations where they are widely popular and whose market is vastly huger than the tiny amount of China bikes sold in the US- These nations buyers generally do not have the funds to buy expensive synthetic oils and so the engines are built with that consideration ,to operate on "standard" motor oils.Full synth blends may actually be TOO " slippery" for the clutch plates and trans designs and cause issues.Anyone who has owned a China bike and seen first hand the excuse for oils, greases, and brake fluids they arrive with from the factory can see that any quality , non synth product is by itself a HUGE upgrade.



What i'm trying to say is i run a full synth in my much newer design street bike which was designed and built by the factory for use with full synth oils ,and i run non synth oils in my China Bike because that is what it was designed for , at least those using the old CG clone engine designs.That engine is a 30 year old design , when full synth engine oils were only in their infancy and not widely available .

All of this is just myths spread by ignorance over and over again. I have run synthetic oil in almost every engine I have ever owned (from very old to brand new), and the worst thing that has ever happened is that they exposed a small leak from old seals that maybe didn't "seem" leak before. Once the seal was replaced, it never leaked again, meaning the seal was bad to begin with and the leak was likely blocked by debris that the higher detergency in the synthetic oil removed.

I've been running T6 15w-40 in my hawk from more or less the beginning.

[Megadan]

Ok, I think I’ll try to track down a quart of T6 to start. Maybe at different Walmarts or auto parts stores next oil change. I picked up the only thing I could find in quarts which was the t4.

Money isn’t an issue at all. I just can’t carry the extra weight of a gallon of oil I don’t need. It all adds up.

Most of the shifting issues isn't down to the oil as much as it is the design of the transmission and shifting mechanism combined with their cheap materials. Over time the shifting will improve a bit, and clean fresh oil will always shift smoother than old oil. Remember that you are reading peoples subjective responses about what they found to work best as well.

Just buy a good quality oil, keep the clutch adjusted properly, and go from there. If you live in a hotter climate, a 20w50 in the summer months is going to help, but remember to change it out if you are going to ride in the colder months back to a 10 or 15w-40.

[Wild Dog]

The reason why i avoid using syn oil in these engines, it's because it's an overkill.
They were designed when Dino oil was the norm.

Don't know in the US, but here you can buy 2,5 liters of Dino oil with the same money you can buy one liter of syn oil.

The only damage you will get when using syn oil instead of dino is in the wallet.

[herbie]

The Honda gn4 is nothing at all special other than the Honda sticker and price tag ,nothing wrong with it ,but also nothing to wet yourself with excitement because you have it either .The Castrol motorcycle oil sold at wallyworld is good cheap oil .

I'm not sure why commented like that so I guess I need to clarify. There are a lot of good quality oils on the market and many are good motorcycle oil, I have used diesel oil for years in my motorcycles both dino and synthetic oils as well as other oil and lots of different brands. The modern water cooled engines are not nearly as dependent on the oil for cooling as our air cooled bikes are. We need better viscocity oil for lubrication and its cooling effects, so the viscocity is of more importance than the brand of oil. I also don't believe there is a great difference in Honda or motorcycle specific oils in themselves, but to my point. We buy everything from the big box stores and online anymore and the local dealers suffer. There may be a day when you need a part like now and your local Honda dealer has it and in stock ( yes some Honda parts fit some chinese engines) So buying oil from them may cost a couple of bucks more but to me it's worth giving them a little business than throwing all my money down into the big box coffers. Just my opinion

[China Rider 27]

You’ve gotten a lot of responses already but I’ll throw mine in if you are interested. I changed to Amsoil 30w Break-in oil before first startup, based on recommendations from other Lifan Xpect riders. The engine runs quietly and smoothly with no clutch or shifting issues. Once I have finished the break in period, I am changing to Amsoil 10w-40 Metric Motorcycle oil (I used a little bit of this on top of the initial quart of break-in oil to get to top fill line).

Curious I looked up that Amsoil 30w break-in. The website says not to use it in Motorcycles because it is not rated for wet clutches?

https://blog.amsoil.com/why-you-should-be-wary-about-using-break-in-oil-in-powersports-equipment/

[franque]

I wouldn't use anything that the manufacturer advises against using for wet clutches, simply because you don't want to unnecessarily have to replace a clutch because the friction modifiers in the oil killed the friction discs in the clutch.

[Megadan]

The reason why i avoid using syn oil in these engines, it's because it's an overkill.
They were designed when Dino oil was the norm.

Don't know in the US, but here you can buy 2,5 liters of Dino oil with the same money you can buy one liter of syn oil.

The only damage you will get when using syn oil instead of dino is in the wallet.

A gallon of T4 in my area (3.78 quarts) is $14, give.or take. A gallon of T6 is about $21. Break that down to the quart and its $3.70 vs $5.56 which quite literally is a 50% increase in price for the synthetic version.

Even with the oil cooler, T4 lasts at best 800 miles in my bike. So far the T6 tends to be pretty much roasted around 1500 miles, but for arguments sake let's call it 1200, which is still a 50% increase in oil life meaning my total cost of operation between the two oils is almost identical.

[China Rider 27]

That AMSOIL link has a good comparison of conventional versus synthetic oil and of course they are selling synthetic oil but if the testing backs it up.

https://blog.amsoil.com/synthetic-vs-conventional-oil/

[TxTaoRider]

I love oil threads.
"Oil-use it".

[Megadan]

I love oil threads.
"Oil-use it".

Just embrace it and let your universe expand. :tup:

[Boatguy]

This problem is solved.

I used Amsoil 20w50 full synthetic made for air cooled v-twin bikes and compatible with wet clutches.

Within minutes of starting to ride, the transmission worked better. I can shift into neutral from first now. So if you are having this problem, switch to a different oil. Rotella T4 is not the right oil for these transmissions/clutches, at least with my Lifan X-pect.

This Amsoil is available at Ace hardware, among other places. I saw it and grabbed it on a whim.

All shifting problems were solved instantly.

[Megadan]

This problem is solved.

I used Amsoil 20w50 full synthetic made for air cooled v-twin bikes and compatible with wet clutches.

Within minutes of starting to ride, the transmission worked better. I can shift into neutral from first now. So if you are having this problem, switch to a different oil. Rotella T4 is not the right oil for these transmissions/clutches, at least with my Lifan X-pect.

This Amsoil is available at Ace hardware, among other places. I saw it and grabbed it on a whim.

All shifting problems were solved instantly.

I think you will find that the 20w50 part of the Amsoil equation was a bigger reason for the increased transmission performance than anything else. Considering you live in a warmer climate especially. 10w40 and 15w40 of any brand degrades pretty quickly in these motors due to heat soak and small capacity. The second I added my oil cooler my transmission "clunkyness" was greatly reduced while running said oil weights.

Not saying that Amsoil isn't great stuff either. It's the only thing I use in my VFR (7100 10w40 synthetic) as it runs and shifts the smoothest. At $60 a gallon though, not quite something I will run in my Hawk lol.

[China Rider 27]

The test would be to put some T-7 in it at next oil change and see if the shifting problems return.

[Boatguy]

The test would be to put some T-7 in it at next oil change and see if the shifting problems return.

Hate to disappoint, but NO THANKS! Ha ha ha.

I’m happy with a perfectly functioning bike at this point. I don’t want to go back to bad shifting.

[TheChairman]

Rotella T4 15w40 is the goto for motorcyclists across the board. All sorts of bikes of all types have had nothing short of stellar performance. No fancy break-in oils or special weights for different Temps needed. All year. All climates. All conditions.

Rotella T6 synthetic 15w40 is the preferred oil. It's even better. If you can find that, use it.

I found the T6 5w40 to shear a bit early. The 15w40 works amazing in virtually every single shared sump I've used it in. No slipping clutches. Smooth shifts. Air cooled or water cooled, doesn't matter.

Once the warranty is up on my Moto Guzzi it, too will be switched to T6 15w40.