Generic 400c/Mash 400

[JonH]

I'm considering purchasing a Generic G400C otherwise known as the Mash 400.
Is anyone running one of these? Being 65 and suffering from a few health issues but needing something relatively lightweight with reasonable performance it's made my shortlist. I've been quoted $5800 for a 2019 model out the door which seems a touch high as a 2021 has an MSRP OF $3999.

Other possibilities are a Suzuki C40 or a Royal Enfield Bullet of some description. I intend to fit a lightweight sidecar for dog hauling.Being 6' and 250lbs I don't see any of the 250s as being hefty enough. I have 50 odd years of experiance running British,Japanese,Italian, Soviet and Eastern European machines.

Outside contenders would be an older Ural/Dnepr/CJ althogh these have gotten somewhat pricey recently. My last bike was a WL45 Harley.

[Barnone]

WOW, last bike a Harley WL45?

I have a 2021 Ural CT which is a very nice ride. Have owned a 2012 and a 2015 Ural in the past. All were good rides and no problem other than a flat tire on the 2015.
Also had a Royal Enfield 500 with a Cozy sidecar but felt it was underpowered and missed the reverse gear of the Urals. I tried a lightweight sidecar on a Suzuki TU250X but it didn't have enough power.

Personally I think the Ural is the way to go and would recommend at least a 2015 as it has EFI and disk brakes all the way around.

Too bad the Mash 400 with the sidecar didn't make it to the USA.


Go spend some time on https://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/index.php?sid=99450fa7ec4d08fda92ff13305f09f06
or ADVrider for Ural info.

[wheelbender6]

Weep no longer, GenuIne riders!
Magnum now offers a performance chip for theG400C, errrrr, Mash 400 Scrambler. (So check your connectors for compatibility)
I have not found a vendor for exhausts or cams, but its a start. You can mod the airbox and exhaust with a few simple tools.
Now you can do some mods to your existing exhaust and airbox without running too lean.

So stop whining, do some mods, and go pick on some Himalayans!

https://www.magnumtuning.com/en/detail/evo-tech-motorcycle-performance-chip/mash/scrambler-400

https://www.magnumtuning.com/upload/M_15/rek6//732.jpg

[TominMO]

I am leery of those magic boxes. Has anyone here bought one of these, and what were the results? For my Xpect, a 15% HP increase amounts to 2.1 HP. Not worth $305!

If I understand them correctly, all this box does is fool the ECU into thinking there is a too-lean condition, and to add more fuel. It is not comprehensive fuel mapping.

I think you could get pretty much the same results with modding the airbox and exhaust, and unplugging the battery so the ECU would reset. A little work to clean up the head would be very helpful too. All of this could be done practically for free, and would probably give equal or better results.

[wheelbender6]

I think the claimed performance increases are very exaggerated too.
-However, I think it will allow you to adjust the A/F ratio.

the Powertronics ECU got good reviews when used on a Himalayan.
https://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/royal-enfield-himalayan-mods/

I have not seen reviews on the Magnum tuners, except on their own website.

[TominMO]

I think the claimed performance increases are very exaggerated too.
-However, I think it will allow you to adjust the A/F ratio.

the Powertronics ECU got good reviews when used on a Himalayan.
https://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/royal-enfield-himalayan-mods/

I have not seen reviews on the Magnum tuners, except on their own website.
True, but that was a tuned ECU with fuel mapping for that specific bike. This Magnum thingy is just a crude kludge.

[wheelbender6]

According to this video, the Magnum is basically a rheostat or potentiometer. Adjustment is the purpose of this Magnum device. I would fast-fwd to the part of the vid where he connects the chip to a multimeter to check voltage.
-I don't think that it provides INSTANT performance gains upon installation. Performance gains come by adjusting the A/F ratio and taking plug readings to close in on the best ratio.
-This is basically the equivalent of a jetting kit for a carbureted bike. Since all new bikes are set to run very lean for emissions purposes, a stock bike will get a lot more longevity and a little more performance AFTER adjustments and verification thru plug readings.
-The Magnum is a toy for somebody who enjoys tinkering, like me. Nothing more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MchLF_VTdZ4

[TominMO]

It would be nice to have someone familiar with working on circuitry open that box up and see what is in it. I'd bet strongly that it is about $3 worth of parts. A knowledgeable person could duplicate its function very easily.

[TominMO]

Just watched a couple of Youtube videos on different cheap performance thingys like this. In both videos they opened the boxes up afterwards to see what was in there.

On the first one, which was installed on a Honda S2000 by a professional and dynoed in the process, there was zero improvement. Opening the box, and having the three chips professionally analyzed, showed that all that was happening was that the external switch controlled the colors on a diode. Nothing more. $20.

On the second one, a DIY guy installing on his Toyota Forerunner, zero performance/MPG gains again. Opened it up, one chip on a breadboard, nothing soldered. Wires attached by glue, and chip attached by bending its pins! $60. Second guy's opinion was that all these quick and easy, too good to be true mods are worthless. The only thing that works is a professional tune on the stock ECU, or an aftermarket tuned ECU. There are also legitimate piggyback tuners that increase the pulse width of the injector, allowing for a longer spray and therefore more fuel, made by reputable companies such as Dynojet.

The video in post 7 only shows that there is a rheostat (variable resistor) in there. No install on a vehicle, so pointless. Here's another problem: I suspect that the ECU would "learn" the new resistor values that initially worked when you were setting it up, and adjust to it so that you would end up back to square one.

Here are the two videos I watched.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGtImIP6j3A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKJNGI6DLEQ

[culcune]

I've been quoted $5800 for a 2019 model out the door which seems a touch high as a 2021 has an MSRP OF $3999.


There was a dealer in downtown L.A. that had these marked up pretty excessively. I mean, no mark-up, but I recall being quoted something similar for a $4k bike, and then $1800 for taxes, dealer prep, etc. Seemed way out of line, to me.

[wheelbender6]

Right now, I cannot find a G400C, new or used, in the state. Hard to find. Easier to find a Himalayan.

[JerryHawk250]

According to this video, the Magnum is basically a rheostat or potentiometer. Adjustment is the purpose of this Magnum device. I would fast-fwd to the part of the vid where he connects the chip to a multimeter to check voltage.
-I don't think that it provides INSTANT performance gains upon installation. Performance gains come by adjusting the A/F ratio and taking plug readings to close in on the best ratio.
-This is basically the equivalent of a jetting kit for a carbureted bike. Since all new bikes are set to run very lean for emissions purposes, a stock bike will get a lot more longevity and a little more performance AFTER adjustments and verification thru plug readings.
-The Magnum is a toy for somebody who enjoys tinkering, like me. Nothing more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MchLF_VTdZ4
I've used this trick many times. All you need is a 0-1k ohm potentiometer and cut the air intake temperature wire and install the potentiometer. About a $6 item. https://www.amazon.com/Fielect-100Kohm-Universal-Potentiometer-WH148-1K/dp/B0826Y12S5/ref=sr_1_20?gclid=Cj0KCQjwjN-SBhCkARIsACsrBz6fyk4wHQgcu9MMhpXm14HB6yhIZVbAjFQxJ 9mJ-7M4gig9qYKwp3saArNfEALw_wcB&hvadid=241899911499&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9025198&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=5905385319775373452&hvtargid=kwd-11090657497&hydadcr=24634_10399774&keywords=potentiometer%2B1k%2Bohm&qid=1649941683&sr=8-20&th=1 Cheaper if you buy in bulk and plan on doing multiple projects. All the resister does is trick the ECU into thinking the air temperature is cooler than it really is and adds more fuel. This mod is used on a lot of older Vulcan 1500 and 1600 to eliminate pinging or to use a lower grade fuel. You can also add a resister to the O2 sensor as well to trick the ECU to add more fuel. With the potentiometer you can fine tune the amount of fuel. This will add fuel to the whole air/fuel table in your ECU. You can use this on just about any EFI engine include the Hawk DXL, Expect and so on.

[Falkon45]

Just watched a couple of Youtube videos on different cheap performance thingys like this. In both videos they opened the boxes up afterwards to see what was in there.

On the first one, which was installed on a Honda S2000 by a professional and dynoed in the process, there was zero improvement. Opening the box, and having the three chips professionally analyzed, showed that all that was happening was that the external switch controlled the colors on a diode. Nothing more. $20.

On the second one, a DIY guy installing on his Toyota Forerunner, zero performance/MPG gains again. Opened it up, one chip on a breadboard, nothing soldered. Wires attached by glue, and chip attached by bending its pins! $60. Second guy's opinion was that all these quick and easy, too good to be true mods are worthless. The only thing that works is a professional tune on the stock ECU, or an aftermarket tuned ECU. There are also legitimate piggyback tuners that increase the pulse width of the injector, allowing for a longer spray and therefore more fuel, made by reputable companies such as Dynojet.

The video in post 7 only shows that there is a rheostat (variable resistor) in there. No install on a vehicle, so pointless. Here's another problem: I suspect that the ECU would "learn" the new resistor values that initially worked when you were setting it up, and adjust to it so that you would end up back to square one.

Here are the two videos I watched.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGtImIP6j3A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKJNGI6DLEQ


Well, the thing is, it depends on the ECU. Not all ECUs "Learn". Especially if these are based on older ECU tech. Like, in my old toyotas. My 86 cressida is a quartz based ECU. It can do some correcting, but that's about it. It's just checking everything based on pulses, and matching timing. My 91 supra is more advanced, but it has a fixed state it tries to keep everything at. It's just adjusting things to make it close to that state. I believe that's how a lot of these chinese EFI systems are running. Just trying to get it back to a nominal state. So, as long as you don't turn the knob too much to get it waaaaay outside it's nominal state, it's won't see anything else as being wrong. It's basically just an interrupter, like the Apex-i Super AFC.

[TominMO]

Well, the thing is, it depends on the ECU. Not all ECUs "Learn". Especially if these are based on older ECU tech. Like, in my old toyotas. My 86 cressida is a quartz based ECU. It can do some correcting, but that's about it. It's just checking everything based on pulses, and matching timing. My 91 supra is more advanced, but it has a fixed state it tries to keep everything at. It's just adjusting things to make it close to that state. I believe that's how a lot of these chinese EFI systems are running. Just trying to get it back to a nominal state. So, as long as you don't turn the knob too much to get it waaaaay outside it's nominal state, it's won't see anything else as being wrong. It's basically just an interrupter, like the Apex-i Super AFC.
Thanks for the education.

I've used this trick many times. All you need is a 0-1k ohm potentiometer and cut the air intake temperature wire and install the potentiometer. About a $6 item. https://www.amazon.com/Fielect-100Kohm-Universal-Potentiometer-WH148-1K/dp/B0826Y12S5/ref=sr_1_20?gclid=Cj0KCQjwjN-SBhCkARIsACsrBz6fyk4wHQgcu9MMhpXm14HB6yhIZVbAjFQxJ 9mJ-7M4gig9qYKwp3saArNfEALw_wcB&hvadid=241899911499&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9025198&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=5905385319775373452&hvtargid=kwd-11090657497&hydadcr=24634_10399774&keywords=potentiometer%2B1k%2Bohm&qid=1649941683&sr=8-20&th=1 Cheaper if you buy in bulk and plan on doing multiple projects. All the resister does is trick the ECU into thinking the air temperature is cooler than it really is and adds more fuel. This mod is used on a lot of older Vulcan 1500 and 1600 to eliminate pinging or to use a lower grade fuel. You can also add a resister to the O2 sensor as well to trick the ECU to add more fuel. With the potentiometer you can fine tune the amount of fuel. This will add fuel to the whole air/fuel table in your ECU. You can use this on just about any EFI engine include the Hawk DXL, Expect and so on.
Wow, very interesting! Which of the three pins on the pot do you use?

[wheelbender6]

"I've used this trick many times. All you need is a 0-1k ohm potentiometer and cut the air intake temperature wire and install the potentiometer. About a $6 item. https://www.amazon.com/Fielect-100Ko...3&sr=8-20&th=1 Cheaper if you buy in bulk and plan on doing multiple projects. All the resister does is trick the ECU into thinking the air temperature is cooler than it really is and adds more fuel. This mod is used on a lot of older Vulcan 1500 and 1600 to eliminate pinging or to use a lower grade fuel. You can also add a resister to the O2 sensor as well to trick the ECU to add more fuel. With the potentiometer you can fine tune the amount of fuel. This will add fuel to the whole air/fuel table in your ECU. You can use this on just about any EFI engine include the Hawk DXL, Expect and so on." - JerryHawk250

Cool!. I remember Pete from NZ had used a potentiometer, but I didn't realize other members had done it too.

What happened to Pete? He said he might move to Thailand. Haven't heard from him since.

[TominMO]

It would be nice to have someone familiar with working on circuitry open that box up and see what is in it. I'd bet strongly that it is about $3 worth of parts. A knowledgeable person could duplicate its function very easily.
I stand corrected. It's $6 worth of parts that they are selling for $305.

[wheelbender6]

Be realistic!
$6 potentiometer.
$5 for 9 pin connectors.
$10 for brushed aluminum plate and knob.
$20 labor to wire it all up.

We are looking at $41, easily.

By the way, don't all road legal motorcycle in the US with ECUs have OBD connectors, rather than 9 pin?. If so, we have a categoric non-fit. Connectors for the Mash 400 must be different.

[TominMO]

Be realistic!
$6 potentiometer.
$5 for 9 pin connectors.
$10 for brushed aluminum plate and knob.
$20 labor to wire it all up.

We are looking at $41, easily.
:doh:
You totally got me.