Zh165 or zs177?? Help!!

[Dan-the-man]

Hey guys! First time posting but have read a lot.
Have a little confusions on what engine I have.
Beleive the bike to be a Asiawing.
It’s the same as a ssr300 but has Kawasaki plastics etc on it.
I believe it to be 250cc and definitely goes like one. Water cooled.
4 valve.
6 SPEED
Have seen zs177mm engines and what the call the nc250 online and they look the same.
But by cases have zh165fmm stamped on them.
Any ideas?
Wanting to order parts but not sure if it is actually a 177
Thanks in advance dor your help!

[Thumper]

Need pics to identify the engine and bike. An image of the engine stamp would be useful. EFI? Carb?

Need more information and pictures!!!

[TominMO]

Probably a case of different engines for different markets or different manufacturers. Why would you not trust what is stamped on the motor?

[Dan-the-man]

Probably a case of different engines for different markets or different manufacturers. Why would you not trust what is stamped on the motor?

Because what’s stamped on the motor is not a 250cc water cooled engine.

[Dan-the-man]

Need pics to identify the engine and bike. An image of the engine stamp would be useful. EFI? Carb?

Need more information and pictures!!!

It’s carb, the engine looks exactly like what you see if you google a nc250.
And the bike is pretty much a Copy of a 2008 crf450 frame

Having trouble uploading pics

[TominMO]

I did a search on zh165fmm, and it comes up (in Chinese) as a ZH250GY-4 with 226cc. This appears to be air-cooled. I'm guessing you have already done all this

What does your title or registration paperwork say the brand and model is?

[Dan-the-man]

I did a search on zh165fmm, and it comes up (in Chinese) as a ZH250GY-4 with 226cc. This appears to be air-cooled. I'm guessing you have already done all this

What does your title or registration paperwork say the brand and model is?

Yep sure have. I’ve been to the depths of google hunting for info.

No title or registration here in New Zealand as it’s not a road going vehicle.

I will post a picture of the vin tag on it.

[Dan-the-man]

Here are some pictures

[Dan-the-man]

Originally came with regulmoto or something like that graphics

[Dan-the-man]

Also under the valve covers it has nc250 in the cast.
Originally had “KHAN” in red on the clutch and magneto covers.

[TominMO]

Did you buy it from a dealer or private party? Because a dealer would at least know what he was selling.

So the 165 means it is a one-cylinder with a 65mm bore, as you probably know. And it does say 249cc.

A search on WRX250NC brings up a lot of returns in Russian, and IDs it as a Motoland. Images show the same giant red rear sprocket and the same unusual style front sprocket cover. Same red-tipped folding shifter and same frame shape.

[Dan-the-man]

I wouldn’t exactly call him a dealer, he imported a few but won’t give me any details as to where from. I did only pay $400NZD for it and was brand new in its crate.

Thanks for your help! I guess I’m just going to have to open it up and see what I’ve got inside.

[TominMO]

$400NZD equates to $227USD. The guy is super-shady, and you have a stolen bike. Pretty obvious given the too-good-to-be-true price. Probably about 10% of what a dealer would pay. So unless you have an IQ of about 45, you are pretty shady yourself. Bye.

[Dan-the-man]

$400NZD equates to $227USD. The guy is super-shady, and you have a stolen bike. Pretty obvious given the too-good-to-be-true price. Probably about 10% of what a dealer would pay. So unless you have an IQ of about 45, you are pretty shady yourself. Bye.

No definitely not stolen. I can assure you of that.
Have seen all the import papaerwork and invoices paid by him for the bikes.

I actually spoke to him today and apparently these were put together for him, hence why the have Kawasaki plastics ect

[TominMO]

According to your VIN tag, the bike is a 2020 model. So has he had these specially-put-together-for-him bikes for two to three years?

Did you notice the line on the VIN tag above the WRX250 line, which has been blacked out? Look how rough the last part is, above the 2020. What does that tell you?

First you say he won't tell you where he got them, but now he is showing you the import paperwork and invoices. Which is it? Why would some company bother to make up a few special bikes for this tiny one-man operation? Why would he bother to do this at all, for a couple of hundred dollars profit? And doesn't the import paperwork/invoices ID the make and model?

Why is he selling a LC 250 for about the cost of a set of plastics, when he should be able to get ten times as much or more, if he is legitimate? None of this makes any sense at all, which is why I call BS. Either he conned you or you are conning us. Or conning yourself because you want to think this is all legal.

[TominMO]

Did a search on your VIN, using several sources. Comes up as a 2020 BMS Bi-Metro 110/Cougar 125 scooter made by Chongqing Yinxiang Motorcycle(Group) Co Ltd. It's a Honda Cub clone. But with an air-cooled 250 motor, in some VIN descriptions!? Really weird. In any case, it does not belong on that bike.

Texas Powersports does sell both the BMS and Cougar brands, mostly scooters. Cub clones are no longer sold in the US, but probably are still in Asian markets. BMS also has an air-cooled 250 dualsport.

So the VIN plate has been swapped. Probably taken off a scooter that was wrecked and sent to the junkyard. I conjecture that the top line of the VIN plate, which has been obscured, would give this away.

[Dan-the-man]

According to your VIN tag, the bike is a 2020 model. So has he had these specially-put-together-for-him bikes for two to three years?

Did you notice the line on the VIN tag above the WRX250 line, which has been blacked out? Look how rough the last part is, above the 2020. What does that tell you?

First you say he won't tell you where he got them, but now he is showing you the import paperwork and invoices. Which is it? Why would some company bother to make up a few special bikes for this tiny one-man operation? Why would he bother to do this at all, for a couple of hundred dollars profit? And doesn't the import paperwork/invoices ID the make and model?

Why is he selling a LC 250 for about the cost of a set of plastics, when he should be able to get ten times as much or more, if he is legitimate? None of this makes any sense at all, which is why I call BS. Either he conned you or you are conning us. Or conning yourself because you want to think this is all legal.

I had no reason to believe it wasn’t legal. Yes I painted the frame, not to hide anything but because I wanted it black.
The top of the vin had a name the next comment referred to along there. I will clean it off and post a picture. I’m not hiding or intend to and if I can prove the bike is stolen then I will go to the authorities about it and I don’t welcome that crap in my life.
I said I paid $400 cash, there was also some work on his property done, not that it’s really any of your business.

[Dan-the-man]

Did a search on your VIN, using several sources. Comes up as a 2020 BMS Bi-Metro 110/Cougar 125 scooter made by Chongqing Yinxiang Motorcycle(Group) Co Ltd. It's a Honda Cub clone. But with an air-cooled 250 motor, in some VIN descriptions!? Really weird. In any case, it does not belong on that bike.

Texas Powersports does sell both the BMS and Cougar brands, mostly scooters. Cub clones are no longer sold in the US, but probably are still in Asian markets. BMS also has an air-cooled 250 dualsport.

So the VIN plate has been swapped. Probably taken off a scooter that was wrecked and sent to the junkyard. I conjecture that the top line of the VIN plate, which has been obscured, would give this away.

Well I’ll be damned.
The frame it a dead knock of of a crf450.
I have used the crf swing arm bushes and bearings. Steering bearings.
It’s also watercooled.
As said in previous reply I will clean up the vin tag better this evening and get a picture of the top.
But it did have a company name. Possibly the one you said but will
Know soon

[Dan-the-man]

Did a search on your VIN, using several sources. Comes up as a 2020 BMS Bi-Metro 110/Cougar 125 scooter made by Chongqing Yinxiang Motorcycle(Group) Co Ltd. It's a Honda Cub clone. But with an air-cooled 250 motor, in some VIN descriptions!? Really weird. In any case, it does not belong on that bike.

Texas Powersports does sell both the BMS and Cougar brands, mostly scooters. Cub clones are no longer sold in the US, but probably are still in Asian markets. BMS also has an air-cooled 250 dualsport.

So the VIN plate has been swapped. Probably taken off a scooter that was wrecked and sent to the junkyard. I conjecture that the top line of the VIN plate, which has been obscured, would give this away.

So here’s the top of vin tag.

[TominMO]

Did a couple of hours of research this morning. I'll try to keep it brief. It's very twisty.

1. Under that manufacturer on the first line, the only motorcycles they list on their website are 50 cc - 150cc. They do have a 250cc ATV. All are under the Senke brand name.
2. The Regulmoto clue apparently refers to an importer, distributor or motorcycle company in Russia. I think they sell bikes from different manufacturers.
3. Motoland has a model called the WRX250NC, as on your plate. My best guess is that Motoland is a Russia/Ukraine-only brand name for the Chinese factory's bikes in those countries. (In the US a few decades ago, Nissan sold cars under the Datsun brand only for the US market. No idea why. And Kawasakis are a smaller division of Fuji Heavy Industries.)
4. The info I got from my VIN search apparently only applies to the US, not worldwide. So that was bogus.
5. So the plate looks legit after all. Still thinking the seller is sketchy tho.

If Vlad87 is monitoring this thread, perhaps you can fill us in.
Also, it does appear to have a 177mm bore.

Here is a pic of the Motoland bike:
https://hot-motors.com/motorcycles/catalog/motoland/wrx-250-nc

And in Russian:
https://motoland-russia.ru/katalog/mototehnika/kross/wrx-250-nc.html

Russian YT video. At 1:54 you can see the manufacturer name on the plate. It is Hangzhou Green Motor etc. I looked them up. Also, at 0:03 you can see the words WRX250NC on the right side cover, behind the number 12. So these Chinese companies seem to have a rather complicated relationship. Maybe market-related.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf0DFXUBKZA

Another Russian YT video shows a 2019 model, which was air-cooled. Apparently they went LC in 2020.

[Dan-the-man]

Did a couple of hours of research this morning. I'll try to keep it brief. It's very twisty.

1. Under that manufacturer on the first line, the only motorcycles they list on their website are 50 cc - 150cc. They do have a 250cc ATV. All are under the Senke brand name.
2. The Regulmoto clue apparently refers to an importer, distributor or motorcycle company in Russia. I think they sell bikes from different manufacturers.
3. Motoland has a model called the WRX250NC, as on your plate. My best guess is that Motoland is a Russia/Ukraine-only brand name for the Chinese factory's bikes in those countries. (In the US a few decades ago, Nissan sold cars under the Datsun brand only for the US market. No idea why. And Kawasakis are a smaller division of Fuji Heavy Industries.)
4. The info I got from my VIN search apparently only applies to the US, not worldwide. So that was bogus.
5. So the plate looks legit after all. Still thinking the seller is sketchy tho.

If Vlad87 is monitoring this thread, perhaps you can fill us in.
Also, it does appear to have a 177mm bore.

Here is a pic of the Motoland bike:
https://hot-motors.com/motorcycles/catalog/motoland/wrx-250-nc

And in Russian:
https://motoland-russia.ru/katalog/mototehnika/kross/wrx-250-nc.html

Russian YT video. At 1:54 you can see the manufacturer name on the plate. It is Hangzhou Green Motor etc. I looked them up. Also, at 0:03 you can see the words WRX250NC on the right side cover, behind the number 12. So these Chinese companies seem to have a rather complicated relationship. Maybe market-related.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf0DFXUBKZA

Another Russian YT video shows a 2019 model, which was air-cooled. Apparently they went LC in 2020.

Just to throw another spanned in the works. I googled khan motors. Found a Facebook page, bang theres my bike lol.
This was originally on the engine covers.

[TominMO]

Just to throw another spanned in the works. I googled khan motors. Found a Facebook page, bang theres my bike lol.
This was originally on the engine covers.
So perhaps originally for the Indian market.

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Noonien_Singh