Second oil change. Dang!

[Hap]

Decided to change my oil for the second time. First time was replacing the shipping oil. When I changed the oil the first time. I had just finished assembly and hadn’t attempted to crank it with that nasty shipping oil. So the shipping oil was very cold. Anyway I dumped it out and put some rotella in. I just turned 20 miles on it and decided to change the oil again. Dang! Talking about some nasty junk! Never seen used rotella look like that. There must have been a good bit of the shipping oil still in there when I changed it from new. It was cloudy with one clump of something. And there was a little bit of sludgy stuff in the oil screen. I’m glad I decided to change it when I did. I guess I should have cranked it with the shipping oil and at least let it get warm. Maybe then it would have drained out better. I don’t know. Gonna run it 20 or 30 more miles and change it again. Hopefully next time it will look a bit more normal. Lol.

[Fast_Freddy]

I'm mostly convinced by word of mouth that these bikes come with "shipping oil" in the crankcase but before changing it, I feel compelled to ask, how we know that it's "shipping oil" and not break-in oil? TIA

[TominMO]

Either way, you would want to change the oil immediately, perhaps after a brief warmup. That's when most of the particles are gonna break loose and move around in your engine. Then change it again soon after, say ten miles. Then 100 miles, then normal intervals. My opinion FWIW.

[Megadan]

I'm mostly convinced by word of mouth that these bikes come with "shipping oil" in the crankcase but before changing it, I feel compelled to ask, how we know that it's "shipping oil" and not break-in oil? TIA

Some of the higher end stuff like Lifan or Zongshen (CSC) comes with relativelt good oil in it. The whole shipping oil thing came from the very budget bikes like the original Hawks because the oil was rather questionable.

Both my 2017 and then 2018 had clear oil in them. Not kidding at all, the oil came out clear and fairly thin. I wouldn't trust my bike with it, not matter how cheap or throw away it is. Rotella T4 is actually a great oil for break in as it has a high zinc content still, unlike many modern motorcycle oils, and is wet clutch rated. It is also fairly affordable, so the cost isn't prohibitive.

I would have.suggested maybe a bit more than 20 miles on that first change myself. 200 is sufficient, but to each their own.

[tknj99]

I had the same issue on my TempX. I changed the factory oil at the 25 mile mark and had metal flakes stuck on the oil screen. Since then had 1 more change with T4 and it came out clean. I posted pics in my review thread.

[Hap]

I had the same issue on my TempX. I changed the factory oil at the 25 mile mark and had metal flakes stuck on the oil screen. Since then had 1 more change with T4 and it came out clean. I posted pics in my review thread.

Yes I saw that post whenever you first posted. I’ve yet to see any metal flakes. I was surprised. I’ll probably change it out again after a 100 or so miles. I’ve got to get this carburetor off and tune it. Before I go much farther.

[Boatguy]

If I remember correctly, my Lifan had the clear oil (mineral oil?) in it.

I changed it to Rotella before ever starting the bike. And not much came out.

[Fast_Freddy]

Either way, you would want to change the oil immediately, perhaps after a brief warmup. That's when most of the particles are gonna break loose and move around in your engine. Then change it again soon after, say ten miles. Then 100 miles, then normal intervals. My opinion FWIW.

I'm going to have new oil on hand either way. I'm undecided about whether or not to even start it with the factory oil. Maybe I'll just warm the engine before draining the factory fill. Thanks.

[Fast_Freddy]

Some of the higher end stuff like Lifan or Zongshen (CSC) comes with relativelt good oil in it. The whole shipping oil thing came from the very budget bikes like the original Hawks because the oil was rather questionable.

Both my 2017 and then 2018 had clear oil in them. Not kidding at all, the oil came out clear and fairly thin. I wouldn't trust my bike with it, not matter how cheap or throw away it is. Rotella T4 is actually a great oil for break in as it has a high zinc content still, unlike many modern motorcycle oils, and is wet clutch rated. It is also fairly affordable, so the cost isn't prohibitive.

I would have.suggested maybe a bit more than 20 miles on that first change myself. 200 is sufficient, but to each their own.

Yeah, I'd also have a hard time trusting clear motor oil. If I even start it with the factory oil it won't stay in there long. I like Rotella but for the winter I'm inclined to go with 10w40 instead. Thanks.

[Megadan]

Yeah, I'd also have a hard time trusting clear motor oil. If I even start it with the factory oil it won't stay in there long. I like Rotella but for the winter I'm inclined to go with 10w40 instead. Thanks.

Depends on how cold it is there. T4 comes in 10w30 and 10w40 as well but they are much less common. The 15w40 is everywhere.

[Fast_Freddy]

Depends on how cold it is there. T4 comes in 10w30 and 10w40 as well but they are much less common. The 15w40 is everywhere.

I didn't know it came in 10w40 or 10w30, I've only ever seen it in 15w40. I used to run it in my Vulcan.

[Jwrider]

Megadan is right. I use t4 in my x-pect with no problems. Getting broke in now w/600mi.

[Texas Pete]

Break in oil is low viscosity and is used to increase the wear on the piston rings against the cylinder wall to shorten the break-in period. That said I also dumped my engine oil and put in rotella T4 after a few starts on the factory oil. It will just take a lot more miles and a lot longer to break in and get the increase in fuel mileage.

[Megadan]

Break in oil is low viscosity and is used to increase the wear on the piston rings against the cylinder wall to shorten the break-in period. That said I also dumped my engine oil and put in rotella T4 after a few starts on the factory oil. It will just take a lot more miles and a lot longer to break in and get the increase in fuel mileage.

Break in oil is generally standard oil viscosity (not thinner) but with a specific additive package.

Generally it contains a high level of suspension detergents to keep metal particulates from settling and it also contains a higher level of ZDDP (Zinc) which acts as a boundry metal that lubricates steel on steel contact to prevent excessive wear of high pressure components like the valvetrain during the initial break in period. It also lacks the typical shear resistance to help promote low pressure contact friction bedding - aka piston rings.

Most typical break in oils also contain Molybdenum as the friction modifier package to protect the rings while bedding. The issue is that Moly and wet clutch packs don't mix well which is why motorcycle specific break in oil doesn't contain it and is generally just a high zinc package. You will also notice a very small amount of wet clutch rated break in oils.

[Fast_Freddy]

Break in oil is low viscosity and is used to increase the wear on the piston rings against the cylinder wall to shorten the break-in period. That said I also dumped my engine oil and put in rotella T4 after a few starts on the factory oil. It will just take a lot more miles and a lot longer to break in and get the increase in fuel mileage.

I thought that break-in oil had very high zinc content and was designed to protect the camshaft during break-in? Although this probably only applies to flat tappet engines. I've only rebuilt 2 stroke engines so I've never actually used break-in oil. I used a lot of Bel ray synthetic 2 stroke oil at 60:1. Love that smell!

[Texas Pete]

You got it. Break-in oils use conventional base oils without friction-modifier additives to allow controlled wear between the rings and cylinder wall. They also contain zinc and phosphorus additives to protect the camshaft and other components during break in.

[Megadan]

I thought that break-in oil had very high zinc content and was designed to protect the camshaft during break-in? Although this probably only applies to flat tappet engines. I've only rebuilt 2 stroke engines so I've never actually used break-in oil. I used a lot of Bel ray synthetic 2 stroke oil at 60:1. Love that smell!

Most modern engines don't require the high levels of zinc and other additives, even during break in. Modern metallurgy and engineering have advanced to a point where the ways of the past just aren't necessary. Most modern engine oils contain almost no zddp thanks to the EPA. Heck, most modern engines come with synthetic oil in them from day 1 as their "break in" oil. They just lack the friction modifiers in as high of a quantity.

These engines can benefit from a higher zinc level due to the nature of the valvetrain, which is why I like Rotella T4 during the break in period as it has one of the highest zinc levels on the market.

I still run Rotella oil in my Hawk. I found 15w40 T6 synthetic and I never looked back. My bike and I both love it lol.

[Fast_Freddy]

Thanks, TexasPete and MegaDan, good info. For now I had to order some oil that would arrive quickly so I got a gallon of Honda 10w40. I may switch to Rotella later on.

I found the owners manual pdf and was reading it. It states to replace the oil filter but it looks like it may be similar to the filter on my Vulcan which was a washable SS screen. Is that what the ZS172 engine uses or is there a replaceable paper cartridge? If a cartridge, where would I find one? TIA

[Zapkin]

Most modern engines don't require the high levels of zinc and other additives, even during break in. Modern metallurgy and engineering have advanced to a point where the ways of the past just aren't necessary. Most modern engine oils contain almost no zddp thanks to the EPA. Heck, most modern engines come with synthetic oil in them from day 1 as their "break in" oil. They just lack the friction modifiers in as high of a quantity.

These engines can benefit from a higher zinc level due to the nature of the valvetrain, which is why I like Rotella T4 during the break in period as it has one of the highest zinc levels on the market.

I still run Rotella oil in my Hawk. I found 15w40 T6 synthetic and I never looked back. My bike and I both love it lol.

So then it is okay to break in these engines with the t4 rotella diesel oil? i am a bit confused now.

[Megadan]

So then it is okay to break in these engines with the t4 rotella diesel oil? i am a bit confused now.

I've said so from the start. Not sure how you got confused when I literally said T4 contains a high level of zinc and is wet clutch rated so it makes it a great oil to break the engine in on

[tknj99]

I'm curious to learn more about the oil that comes from the factory. everyone automatically assumes it garbage, and it probably is compared to T4 and other known motorcycle oils, but for them to ship with substandard oil that is not rated for the engine would not make sense from a liability and warranty perspective.

[Mudflap]

I'm curious to learn more about the oil that comes from the factory. everyone automatically assumes it garbage, and it probably is compared to T4 and other known motorcycle oils, but for them to ship with substandard oil that is not rated for the engine would not make sense from a liability and warranty perspective.


Need a volunteer to send a shipping oil sample out to an oil analysis company to see what's in it. Better to change it out with a known good oil before running the engine.

[Deckard_Cain]

Need a volunteer to send a shipping oil sample out to an oil analysis company to see what's in it. Better to change it out with a known good oil before running the engine.

I still wouldn't trust inexpensive Chinese engine oil over a basic $6 bottle of Valvoline MC oil I can just toss in.

That's putting an awful lot of faith in an engine manufacturer of questionable QC. A single qt of known good engine oil is cheap insurance to ensure you won't do lasting damage.

Maybe their oil is fine... but even a single VOA of the so-called shipping oil wouldn't be enough for me to trust it, or to trust that every engine mfg is going to be the same, or to trust that they don't change the oil type on a random Tuesday because they got low on the "good stuff".

I mean, consider, we don't trust the China bike mfg to properly tighten and torque the bolts and screws... why would we trust that they're using top tier quality engine oil?

[tknj99]

I hear you and completely agree.. for some reason i kept the factory oil in for the first 25 miles and then dumped it for T4. I had alot of metal shavings that i've never seen before on other bikes. since then i've changed the oil twice and the screen has come out clean. I guess i'm just wondering if keeping that stock oil in for the first ride(s) caused any long term damage. I know most change it immediately but im sure there are just as many that don't. What interested me recently as well was another member mentioning that they changed out the oil immediately upon build and then after some miles with the fresh oil changed it and it came out with metal shavings as well.. perhaps its QC on the engine where some come out with shavings on first change and other don't?

[Texas Pete]

Need a volunteer to send a shipping oil sample out to an oil analysis company to see what's in it. Better to change it out with a known good oil before running the engine.


Not for actual oil additives, its only $12 or so a quart for break in oil. They also sell break-in oil additive but that just adds the minerals without addressing the friction additives in regular engine oil.


But they have done it for contamination out of the factories.


tl;dw Royal Enfield beat the entire sample from Japan, Europe, China, etc.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=9GAUo8eUXeU

[TominMO]

Cool video, thanks.

[Fast_Freddy]

So does anyone know whether the Templar's ZS172FMM engine has a oil filter cartridge or a washable screen?

[Hap]

So does anyone know whether the Templar's ZS172FMM engine has a oil filter cartridge or a washable screen?

It has a washable screen. I haven’t been able to locate a changeable filter of any kind. I wouldn’t mine having a little better filtration.

[Magician16]

I bought my Magician before I knew about this site. I think I ran the oil that was in the bike for a few miles before I changed to Valvoline conventional motorcycle oil. I didn't remove the screen until after the second oil change because I didn't know it was there. There was very little particulate in the screen at that time. I have done a few more oil changes since and have been using Valvoline synthetic motorcycle oil. It has come out very clean every time.


I bought my Bashan used/abused. It was running when I bought it, but it had a lot of problems. I couldn't believe how dirty the screen was when I first changed it, and I couldn't believe how overfilled it was. I changed the oil again after 500 miles, and the screen again had some particulate, but the bike runs great now.

[tknj99]

Thanks for that info.. in reading that and another report, it may be more of a make/model and QA of the build that determines whether or not there will be metal shavings in the first oil change, and probably not related to the factory oil.
So with the Templar X, 2 of us so far reported that the first change had metal shavings. That's probably a minority and may have been the case whether i dumped the oil immediately upon build or changed it at the 25 mile mark.

[Patch56]

I use T4 on my hawk. I have 500 miles on it and have changed the oil 4 times. Never ran the factory oil in it. I also bought a magnetic drain plug after the second oil change and it has had a good bit of sludge on it during oil changes.

[Fast_Freddy]

Now I see why people refer to the factory oil as shipping oil. I'll be replacing it before the first startup.

Tips:

Upon receiving your vehicle (and after reviewing the video) we recommend that you heed the following tips:

1. Perform your first oil change by replacing the Engine oil with 10W40 motor oil prior to starting.

X-Pro Owners quick guide (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0283/6211/3156/files/K5-CB250_DB-K012_Quick_Guide.pdf?v=1650258785)

DB-K012 (Templar) owners manual (https://www.powersportsmax.com/download/productmanuals/CB250%20X7%20250CC%20dirt%20bike%20manual.pdf)

[Megadan]

So with the Templar X, 2 of us so far reported that the first change had metal shavings. That's probably a minority and may have been the case whether i dumped the oil immediately upon build or changed it at the 25 mile mark.

Metal in the oil is a normal side effect of the break in process. The bigger shavings aren't uncommon either as almost every Hawk owner can attest. I found more than a few in my screen after my first oil change. It's potentially swarf from machining and manufacturing but it can also come from the gears in the transmission which are often rough finished and "wear in" into one another.

[flopsweat]

When I got my TT250 last year, I didn't know any better (despite going over much in these forums) and didn't change my oil until I think 300-400 miles. It was pretty dark, and my filter had minimal metal shavings, but I've been on the ball ever since just using Valvoline 10W40 synthetic. Got 5k+ now and still smooth, so something went right, and here's to 15k more!