The Tomahto!

[TominMO]

Got it today. In much better shape than The Carrot, but it's still gonna get a complete teardown. Pic2 is the literature that came with both bikes.

Edit: Linque to build thread for The Carrot. https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=31919

Edit deux: CT90 resources
https://hondanuts.com/collections/ct90-ct110-parts

https://mytrailbuddystore.com/ct90.aspx

https://www.partsnmore.com/parts/honda/ct90/

http://dratv.com/

http://www.cttrailbikes.com/ct90parts.html

https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-ct90-tra...620/partslist/

https://store-v5z9i.mybigcommerce.co...90%20Early.pdf

https://www.nospartsnow.com/honda/ct90/

[TominMO]

Went out and boxed up/cleared away a lot of the Carrot parts that were laying around, so make room for disassembly of the Tomahto. Starting on it tmw. We are getting another five days or so of unseasonably warm weather. I'll get it mostly apart in a day or two though. This way I can order parts for both bikes at the same time. The tranny's high-low range selector is stuck on this one too, so I'll go in there and free it up like I did the Carrot's. Gonna order SS Allen head case screw sets for both bikes, and complete engine gasket/seal sets. Hope to check for spark tmw too.

[2LZ]

Wow! That one is in FAR better shape. Nice deal!

[TominMO]

Wow! That one is in FAR better shape. Nice deal!
Yeah, actually I won't need to do a complete teardown, since the bike is mostly rust-free. Frame is fine. I'll pull the swingarm and centerstand bolts, and both engine mount bolts to make sure there is no rust or corrosion, then treat as needed and replace. Will also redo the forks, on general principles. Needs new cables and probably plenty of other little things I am not aware of yet.

[XLsior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_at02IT9Jw

[TominMO]

That's a fun vid, and somewhat helpful. Saw it a few months ago. I have watched a number of videos on working on these motors. Different people show different things, explain stuff differently, and have different methods to get it done.

Didn't do anything to the bike yesterday. Ran a bunch of non-Tomahto-related errands. It was 43, not too cold, but 100% humidity so very clammy. Decided to wait a day to get started. It'll be 49 at noon, so I'll start then.

[TominMO]

Went to work on it today. Couldn't wait until noon so I started at 10ish.

Removed spark plug. Champion. Tossed in trash and connected correct new NGK plug to plug lead. Turned on key, discovered I had spark, so installed plug, removed carb and intake manifold, squirted starting fluid into head. But no joy after many kicks. Checked voltage--1.8v. Replaced battery with Carrot's battery sitting on the table. Started on first kick! But sounded really clacky.

Long story short, exhaust valve was super loose and intake valve was super tight. Adjusted to correct clearances, installed covers, squirted fluid, turned key and kicked it over, again in one kick, but much quieter this time. Declared victory, peace with honor etc and went inside for lunch.

Getting up close and personal with it shows me that it does still need a fair bit of TLC. But I bet if I installed the clean carb off The Carrot and added some gas, I could ride it right now.

Notes:
23mm (or 15/16"?) socket/wrench for valve covers
9mm socket for valve adjuster locknut
Clearances set to a snug .003" (calls for .002" but my feelers jump from .0015" to .003")
Both tires look good from a distance but are badly cracked on the sidewalls. So I need four new tires, tubes, rim strips.
Also need new air filter elements.

[franque]

It should be 22mm, which interchanges readily with 15/16. Nice project!

[cheesy]

It should be 22mm, which interchanges readily with 15/16. Nice project!

Close, but no cigar. 22mm=7/8. 24mm=15/16.

[TominMO]

It should be 22mm, which interchanges readily with 15/16. Nice project!Tried a 22mm, but it was a hair too tight. Luckily I had a 23mm. 15/16 is 23.81mm. 7/8 is 22.225mm.

25.4 / 16 = 1.5875
1.5875 x 15 = 23.81

[franque]

Close, but no cigar. 22mm=7/8. 24mm=15/16.

Yep, brain fart, that's what I meant.


It's a bit wallowed out if a 23 fits, Honda/Japanese manufacturers don't use the 23, it's always 22 or 24.

[TominMO]

Yep, brain fart, that's what I meant.

It's a bit wallowed out if a 23 fits, Honda/Japanese manufacturers don't use the 23, it's always 22 or 24.
No, they look like they have never been touched, which is plausible with only 1,832 miles on the odo.

[TominMO]

More CT90 repair adventures happened today.

-- Cleaned the carb. Not too bad, some old brown gas in the float bowl, but it should be good now.
-- All cables were seized or very sticky. Got 'em all unstuck and smooth, except the throttle cable which is still a bit sticky. Have to work on it some more.
-- Verified that both beams of the headlight work. That's good because replacements ain't cheap. It's a 6V sealed beam setup.
-- Pulled the speedo. It rattles. Ruh roh. Chucked the cable in my drill and spun it. Speedo part works fine, odo does not. So the rattle is a bit of plastic gear from the odo. Oh well. I can get a new Chinese speedo unit in KM for a CT70 for about $21 on Amazon. The Carrot's speedo has a trip meter and a different shape, more oval instead of triangular.
-- There is some rust inside the frame, not too bad (no holes), so I don't need to do a full teardown. Just remove all the electrical pieces/wiring (5 minutes at most) and spray in there with Rust Reformer.
-- Sprayed The Carrot's wheels inside the rims with RR, and also the Tomahto's battery box.

[cheesy]

Let me check my stash tomorrow, I may have a 6v sealed beam I don't need.

[TominMO]

Oooohh! Thanks! Carrot's sealed beam is 5.5" diameter, Tomahto's is 4.5". If yours is wunna dose, I'll take it.

Booboo on my part, turns out the Tomahto's odo works fine. I didn't spin it long enough to register a distance change. Also checked the speedo on the Carrot. Everything works. Even the trip meter, although the reset is broken off.

[cheesy]

I will measure in the morning.

[cheesy]

Well, good news/bad news on the sealed beam. Good news, I found it and it's the right size. GE 4020 6v MC bulb. Bad news, I should have tossed it when I pulled it from Aermacchi headlight. It's no bueno.

That said, Steiner tractor lists a 4020 sealed beam for about $18.

[TominMO]

Thanks queso-y.

[TominMO]

Today I did the brakes. Needed the front, but rear was good, so just cleaned inside there a little and deglazed the shoes with sandpaper. Didn't get to the throttle cable. I think it's just the wheel bearing grease I put inside the twistgrip; too thick. With no grease it snapped back freely. Might go greaseless or try white lithium.

Spent a lot of time futzing around, looking at stuff and making small repairs/adjustments, lubing fasteners etc. Decided it needs a complete teardown after all, but for now I'm just gonna get it rideable. Discovered it has no sidestand, for some reason. Taken off but never reinstalled. Tried to get the one from The Carrot on there, but the mount point for the spring on The Tomahto's footpeg bracket is bent back so you can't get a spring in there. I'll put The Carrot's footpeg bracket on there with the sidestand, which came off there anyway. Since I'll probably go with a Chinese motor for The Carrot, I will also get the footpeg bracket/sidestand that bolts directly to the Chinese motor. The Carrot's Honda motor will be one I tear into just for the experience, and as a spare.

[TominMO]

Just did some more little stuff today. Painted footpeg mounts and all stands with Rust Reformer. Reinstalled rear wheel and cleaned it up. Noticed the chain is shot and needs replaced. Both sprockets still good though.

Gonna be cool for a couple of days, so I'll probably not do much/anything to the bike until Friday, when it gets back up to 48.

[Sport Rider]

I'm not seeing many pics on this thread for entertainment purposes! ;)

[2LZ]

Painted footpeg mounts and all stands with Rust Reformer.
Just got some of this. Looking forward to seeing how it works. Anything that turns surface rust into a paintable surface has to be FM.

[TominMO]

Just got some of this. Looking forward to seeing how it works. Anything that turns surface rust into a paintable surface has to be FM.Yes it is.

[TominMO]

I'm not seeing many pics on this thread for entertainment purposes! ;)OK fine. I hope you're satisfied. I put on my snow shoes, trudged out to the garage in four feet of snow, fired a couple of warning shots to scare away the two wolves and the chupacabra, checked for ninjas again (didn't see any naturally--them Japs are tricky little fellers)*, and shot a couple of photos. Not really much to see actually, so I didn't consider my work so far to be picture-worthy.

* The preceding description may contain some slight inaccuracies.

The chupacabra is a master of disguises. Here he made it into pic 1.

[TominMO]

Just bought 14 items off Amazon for the two CTs.
Got a rear sprocket for The Carrot, and a carb spacer and gasket
Got a few needed tools:
-- JIS screwdrivers to get the case screws out easier
-- a clutch removal tool
-- a cable luber

Parts for The Tomahto:
6V bulbs, angled pod air filter, fork boots, ignition switch, SS allen bolts for the cases, fuel line + clamps, a set of chassis springs, a drive chain, and a pair of rubber footpeg covers

[2LZ]

Just bought 14 items off Amazon for the two CTs.
Got a rear sprocket for The Carrot, and a carb spacer and gasket
Got a few needed tools:
-- JIS screwdrivers to get the case screws out easier
-- a clutch removal tool
-- a cable luber

Parts for The Tomahto:
6V bulbs, angled pod air filter, fork boots, ignition switch, SS allen bolts for the cases, fuel line + clamps, a set of chassis springs, a drive chain, and a pair of rubber footpeg covers
I'm glad to see you making headway! I have one JIS. So far it's worked. With the BSA, Mrs. 2LZ gave me the basic sets of Whitworth wrenches and sockets for Christmas. Never thought I'd need more "basic wrenches and sockets". Sheesh....

[TominMO]

I spent about two-fitty yesterday on all that stuff, and fitty alone was for the three JIS screwdrivers.

I think I will partially drop the motor Friday--i.e. pull the top mount bolt and rotate the motor downwards a little. I want to reroute the wiring that comes out of the front of the frame, as currently it is crammed up against the carb. 1968 and 1969 were oddball years for the CT90. Honda was thrashing around trying to figure out how to do stuff. By 1970 they had a good handle on what the design should be. My frames are different. Centerstands are different. There were three different designs for CT90 airboxes in three years! Early CT90s had no transfer case, just two rear sprockets, and you needed to add or remove a short length of chain to change between them. Three different carb designs IIRC.

Even the shifter changed. ON FB there is some discussion of the best angle to put the heel/toe shifter, and the consensus is toe slightly down, heel up. But you can't do that with the 1969 shifter, you can only mount it flat because the rear half does not clear the high/low transfer case. On the 1972 one, the angle of the heel section is changed so that it will clear the case. So since I will be sticking a Chinese motor in The Carrot, I grabbed its shifter for The Tomahto.

Later on I will take a pic of both shifters, so you can see the difference.

As far as the Whitworth tools go, you should also find that on some sizes you can substitute a metric or SAE tool. Kinda like 3/8" is effectively 10mm, 3/4" is 19mm. Might be worth making up a comparison chart.

Like this one:

[TominMO]

Shifter comparison.

The 1972 is on the right, heel section at the bottom.

[2LZ]

Shifter comparison.

The 1972 is on the right, heel section at the bottom.
Interesting to see the subtle changes over time, as the bike slowly evolved. I guess the dual-range bump would certainly would have created them an issue.

[TominMO]

Of the 14 items I ordered from Amazon yesterday, three arrived today. Here is the pod filter ($9). Not a giant fan of any of the various filter setups on the CT90. I have no plans to ford streams with either bike, and they would be used in fair weather only. Even so, there are various ways to make these filters rainproof or rain resistant.

I got one with a 45 degree angle in the rubber part, for mounting versatility. Wanted to make sure there was no interference with the frame.

The transfer case looks like it will clean up nicely, and I will rob the stator cover from The Carrot. Towards the end of the month I will buy the ultrasonic cleaner to play with.

[TominMO]

The ignition locks in both bikes are a bit long in the tooth, and the keys look kinda frail too. Amazon came again today, so I changed out The Tomahto's lock for a new Chinese one ($12). Keeping the old keys because they also work the fork lock, which seems barely if ever used. Gonna do the same on The Carrot. The fork locks were frozen but a few squirts of penetrant took care of that, inside the lock and also down the locking shaft.

Yeah I know, fork locks are practically useless. But still.

[TominMO]

Three good products.
-- Rust Reformer is sprayed directly onto rust to bond with it and make a paintable surface.
-- Rust Dissolver (generic name: naval jelly) does what the name says.
-- Corrosion Inhibitor keeps it from coming back, supposedly for a year.

Lowes only had the Reformer and Dissolver; Home Depot only had Reformer and Inhibitor.

Pics 2 and 3 are of The Carrot's kickstarter, after treating with the dissolver. The Carrot was left outside for a long time, at the mercy of the elements. The rust had eaten through the chrome, but it does look a lot better than before. Basically it was mostly rust, very little chrome. Because of the depth of the rust, it was not a simple squirt, wait 30 minutes, wipe off and have perfection. For surface rust that would probably work. I used several applications and some rubbing with a green scrubby pad. I will probably hit the kickstarter with Rust Reformer and have a flat black kickstarter. I like this style better than the one on The Tomahto, so on it goes. I hit the very stiff foot pivot with penetrant, then sprayed white lithium grease in there. Works nice.

[TominMO]

Got some work done today. Cleaned it up a bit, swapped the left side covers over from The Carrot's motor, fixed the sticky throttle cable, added a footpeg rubber, installed a few SS allen head screws.

Pic 1: I did paint and install The Carrot's kickstarter after all.
Pic 2: Left side of bike. New and more convenient screws. Waiting on my JIS screwdriver set for the rest.
Pic 3: Wider view. Storage tube is just ziptied on for now. Downtube cover protects the pod air filter.

I just stuck some of the body parts on for pic 3. Coming off again so I can address my wiring routing issue.

[TominMO]

Today I pulled the motor sufficiently to get at the wiring harness, for a little rerouting. I also painted the interior of the frame white, to make it easier to see in there, and organized the wiring a bit with a 1/4" wiring loom, zip ties and electrical tape. Won't have that rat's-nest look about it any more. Also painted white the inside of The Carrot's frame, which I had previously hit with Rust Reformer.

My JIS screwdrivers came in today, but by that time I was elbow-deep inside the frame, so reinstalling the motor and swapping out the case screws will wait until tmw.

[2LZ]

Lookin' awesome Tom! I've found wire loom routing to be completely inconsistent from bike to bike. It's almost maddening. Did the guy at the assembly line throw these in like this, or some shade-tree, ham-fisted mutant when he installed the custom air filter?

[TominMO]

Actually I was the ham-fisted mutant who installed the custom air filter. The wiring looks like it had never been touched since installation at the factory. It looks this way now because I have it all out. Once I reinstall it tmw, it should look far tidyer. The annoying part was a clump of wiring bunched up against the fuel lines, right next to the carb. Now they are up on the downtube, as they were on The Carrot.

I was thinking of your black Suzuki while I was painting the interior white. I used blue painter's tape to cover any holes. That large round hole on the left side is for the air cleaner horn--it gets intake from inside the frame! (The bottom of the frame is open.) This design was only for 1969.

[TominMO]

Rerouted the wiring, installed the motor, installed the SS Allen case screws on the left side. In the process of doing that, I learned two things:
1. your garden-variety claw hammer is not the best tool for the job, used with an impact screwdriver. Get a BFH (pictured below--it came with the garage).
b. the screws that stuck out were easy to get off with a pair of vise grips.

Whilst I was laboring away in the garage, my new rear sprocket came. JT Sprockets model JTR809/2.45. They come in black or silver. Black was available.

[dirtbkr188]

:tup:


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8524/zhiJkX.jpg

[TominMO]

Decided to get it running today. Long story short: nope.

Got the tank and fuel lines on, installed the carb, added gas, and immediately fuel started leaking fairly aggressively out the petcock. Swapped on the carb from The Carrot--overall a much better design BTW, in terms of convenience. Same issue!

Inside the petcock, both carbs have one of these. The '69 has 4 holes, the '72 has eight.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/121831689041?hash=item1c5dbc0b51:g:uJAAAOSwfZ1WYTT f&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsH6m8nTMSwccdFwvp2RAh4Lz5oyXk 8JdNzpKl7osyE%2BJJG%2BfosgCE%2Bi9DeY04L7InvZ%2BHey zHSHt1W4iB3akfPMVGNVfU7thLVzqTe7VJmi1sspbps12qEucD W6VNQdqbQMYDxBeSGYTWUU0Za59JHMF5EJ8TbTM35j%2FtNgyL y%2F8PpYnhprHGmFVyxThTiSxZibp14gwBFA8bky%2FE5c77rU Lkn7unL4CzicpuvFl%2FpRl%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5Ke6LS0YQ

Apparently they go bad, Now these are low-mileage bikes, but maybe they went bad from just being old. The '72 was also leaking at the fuel strainer/screen, at the rear of the petcock. IIRC it's just an O-ring in there. I'm probably gonna get an OEM rebuild kit off eBay. You have to make sure that it has the rubber petcock part because many do not.

The other plan is to get a Chinese carb off Amazon. Generally about the same price as the rebuild kit. I would prefer to get the Honda carb running right, but if a rebuild kit doesn't cut it then I will just get a Chinese carb.

[TominMO]

Weather was in the high 50s today, so I went out and tackled the case screws again. Got all the old ones removed, on both motors. I didn't do the ones that actually join the case halves, just the side cover ones.

LESSONS LEARNED
1. The JIS screwdrivers I bought were a waste of money. When it came to getting the old phillips screws out after I broke them free, the Milwaukee #2 did a better job than the JIS #2, especially if the phillips head was a bit damaged.
2. Two things actually mattered, (a) and (b) below:
a. Pre-soak the screws at least twice with penetrant. They've been untouched for 50+ years! Imagine the corrosion. It only needs to soak for a few minutes, not hours or overnight.
b. Use a #3 tip on your impact screwdriver. It bites in there better than the #2.
c. Oh yeah, use a BFH, not a normal little claw hammer, on the impact driver. So three things.
d. Used anti-seize for the new screws
e. Some of the screws I was able to get the tip of a vise grip on, and those broke free really easy. Only my Irwin worked; the tip on it is much better than a Craftsman's.

Once I figured out the proper procedures, the spare motor (The Carrot's) went really easy. Need to order an allen screw set for it.

I was short two of the shortest screws. Possibly I used them on the other side where I was supposed to use a longer one, so I'll check. If not, they are available in black at Ace Hardware, in various lengths. If necessary, I will buy a couple and put them on the bottom of the cases where no one will notice them. All are 5mm Allen wrench.

[TominMO]

New parts and tools showed up, mostly today. I'll get on the ultrasonic cleaning tmw. Horn is for The Tomahto. Chain, sprocket, and SS case screws are for The Carrot, so both bikes have the same new good parts. Carrot motor is actually a spare for The Tomahto. Plus I got a cable luber.

[TominMO]

Fooled around with the Vevor ultrasonic (US) cleaner today. Watched a YT vid on a guy trying out inexpensive cleaning solutions. Best one was Pine Sol, but has a strong odor. He also discovered that the heating elements in these cleaners are not all that powerful, so his workaround was to boil water and add it slowly to the cleaning solution until he got to the desired temp. So that is what I will do tmw. And I will do this on my porch, where there is an outdoor outlet, to avoid the fumes issue. I expect that once I get it to the right temp, I will probably have to alternate boiling and colder water to get it up to the right fluid level.

He was using a larger model than mine, probably 5 liters. He used it for automobile carbs. He was also in a cold garage, so ambient air temp was probably a factor too. Mine is 3 liters, which has a 100W heating element. His was probably a 200W. The smallest is 1.3 liters, but that seems fairly useless for our needs. I think I got the best bang-for-buck size. Picked up some Pine Sol and distilled water today. Planning on a 50/50 mix.

[XLsior]

I found putting smaller items in sandwich zip bags with the cleaning solution and then filling the vat with plain hot water makes things a bit easier to manage with sonic cleaning.

i purchased a cheap 3litre unit and the driver board failed after a couple of runs, got my money back and kept the dead unit...found a replacement board at aliexpress and got it running again. So i'll say those Sonic cleaners are a bit hit and miss sometimes.

I only got as far as using 2x dishwash detergent and hot water with decent results on carburetors...

[TominMO]

OK, results of using the US cleaner with 50/50 Pine Sol/water mix. It didn't magically make everything look like new. Perhaps it would have done a better job if I had used a solution specific for removing corrosion on aluminum, but being a noob to this, IDK what that would be. Pulled it out of the soup, rinsed it off, and gave it a quick and light scrub with a green scrubbie pad. It also works pretty well at getting off gaskets. At least this gives me a good base for polishing.

Before and after pics. Pic 2 also shows the basket and the tea ball thingy that comes with the cleaner.

[TominMO]

After some polishing. 400/800 grit on the valve cover, 800/2000 grit on the larger covers.

[TominMO]

In post #44, look at the stator cover in both the before and after pics. The US cleaner took all the paint out of the Made in Japan part! It also cleaned up the HONDA lettering; don't think there was paint in there, just dirt. This cover will get red lettering.

[XLsior]

it all comes down to elbow grease...

Sore thumbs are a bonus.

[TominMO]

More parts came in. Gonna hit 48 degrees today, so I will go out and pull the carb to install the rebuild kit. Tmw I will get the battery charged and try to start it. Hopefully the carb rebuild will stop the leaking; otherwise it's a Chinese carb for me. This may require installing a petcock, since the Chinese one I want to use does not have its own internal petcock. Or I might choose one with an internal petcock, we'll see.

On Wednesday it's supposed to hit 69! In Feb! Looking to install the new tires that came in (Shinko 244), after warming 'em up a bit in the sunlight. Will go for a ride that day too, on the KPX. If I'm lucky I might be able to do a quick shakedown spin on the Tomahto.

https://www.amazon.com/Shinko-Front-Rear-2-50-17-Bias/dp/B00EXFQZF2/ref=sr_1_7?crid=3GJOSK1X10JDS&keywords=shinko+244&qid=1676131181&sprefix=shinko+244%2Caps%2C121&sr=8-7

[TominMO]

Got the rebuilt carb on and connected the lines. Had to go get some good hose clamps. The cheap Chinese ones that came with my fuel line aren't gripping the line with any strength at all.

The clamps: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0778Q4CNS?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

But by then it was 3:30 and I didn't feel like going further. Called it a day. The battery is fully charged and all I have to do is connect it and add a little gas. The throttle is still kinda sticky even after shooting the cable with penetrant awhile back. This is a known issue with these inside-the-handlebar throttles; designed-in stiction. There are cheap fixes, which I will try. But I should be able to easily get it running tmw.

[2LZ]

Progress! During this time if year, ANY progress is good. Been cold and wet here again. I hear the fleet whimpering from across the yard. :-(

[TominMO]

Ordered a set of 25 SS 6-12mm hose clamps for $9. Not entirely confident the two I got are compressing small enough. Anyway I would need some for The Carrot as well, so figured I might as well get more than enough. Really small ones are hard to come by at my local brick-and-mortars.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09BM1MNFX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

One trick I haven't done yet is to increase the OD of the lines where I clamp them, by simply wrapping them in electrical tape. A Plan B type of option.

[Bruces]

For the past 15 years we have been running small zip tie’s instead of clamps on our fuel lines with zero issues .My son is a pro snow cross racer and we do that on his team skidoo factory race sleds .

[TominMO]

For the past 15 years we have been running small zip tie’s instead of clamps on our fuel lines with zero issues .My son is a pro snow cross racer and we do that on his team skidoo factory race sleds .Oh, NOW you tell me. :grr:

[TominMO]

Spent the day chasing down electrical issues. Two loose connections and one broken one, at one of the male connectors to the positive side of the battery. Crimped on a new male connector. Lots of time spent diagnosing parts such as the new Chinese ignition switch--which I had connected one of the leads too loosely. The switch itself was fine. Then I found out after a while that I didn't connect battery ground to the frame. It must have come off the screw as I was inserting it. Didn't notice because it was all shrouded by the exhaust.

On the carb side, the hose clamps were indeed too big, so I will wait until the ones I just ordered come in, in a couple of days. The carb itself seemed to not leak at all after the rebuild.

I did finally get it to start on starting fluid, just to reassure me that the basics were now all OK. Also waiting on new rim strips, due in a couple of days too, before changing out the tires/tubes. I will then add the new rear sprocket and chain.

[TominMO]

Tried the ziptie solution for securing fuel lines. Used two per line. Didn't work; still leaked, although possibly at a bit slower rate. My new smaller hose clamps are due in tmw, so I will see how they fit. Probably I will increase the line's OD with electrical tape. Luckily there is room to do that to both petcock tubes. I marked the Reserve line with a red ziptie. (On these bikes, the petcock is on the carb itself, hence the two fuel lines from the tank.)

I did use zipties at the gas tank end of the lines. The tank's fuel tubes fit down through two holes in the frame, and you can't really put any kind of hose clamp on the lines and get them through the holes. So, better than nothing. The lines are not pressurized, so they likely would not leak even with no clamps at all, since the gas would have to flow straight up the lines. Down is the path of least resistance.

Installed both new rear sprockets on both bikes' hubs, just for something to do. Tmw while waiting for the hose clamps, I will install the new JT chain, and find other things to do. Also tidied up my work table, which had become an utter chaos of tools and parts for both bikes. Looking for stuff was taking up way too much time.

Both tires on The Tomahto have dry rot. The rear one is really bad, but both still hold air fine. Front tire made in 2002, rear tire made in 1984! A pity; tread-wise, they both look brand new.

Rainy tmw, but sunny and 66 on Wednesday. Definitely getting the KPX out then!

[2LZ]

I do zip ties on the clear fuel line, with no issues. The thick, black Gates or Good Year type of fuel line I use hose clamps.

[XLsior]

On gravity delivered fuel lines with carburetors I have not had a reason to use clamps or ties on my fuel lines, 5mm ID hose on 6mm OD barbs seems to hold tight and getting the hose off the barb ends takes some effort.

If I was having fuel leaks I'd be more inclined to believe the wrong diameter fuel hose is the issue...

[Bruces]

I had not thought you might be running black fuel line ,we only run clear for fuel so we can actually see see what’s going on .Also the zip ties are the 2 inch ones ,the lock part on the larger sizes works against you when dealing with small diameter hose .

[TominMO]

I had not thought you might be running black fuel line ,we only run clear for fuel so we can actually see see what’s going on .Also the zip ties are the 2 inch ones ,the lock part on the larger sizes works against you when dealing with small diameter hose .I was wondering if my fuel lines were too thick and stiff for the ziptie method to work. I was using 4" zipties BTW. Anyway, getting some proper small worm-gear hose clamps today. I bought this fuel line because it was cheap and came with all those clamps. My old fuel line (also black) was very old and hard.

[TominMO]

I do zip ties on the clear fuel line, with no issues. The thick, black Gates or Good Year type of fuel line I use hose clamps.
Yeah, learn something new every day.

On gravity delivered fuel lines with carburetors I have not had a reason to use clamps or ties on my fuel lines, 5mm ID hose on 6mm OD barbs seems to hold tight and getting the hose off the barb ends takes some effort.

If I was having fuel leaks I'd be more inclined to believe the wrong diameter fuel hose is the issue...The black line does fit on there pretty snugly. I can't really call it too large--but it's not snug enough, obviously. I think it's just the nature of the thick and more rigid black line that it has to be properly clamped.

[TominMO]

OK, I'm done with this Chinese black fuel line. Even with the new smaller clamps, it still leaks! :cry::grr:

I mic'd the fuel barbs on the carb. Different measurements depending on where I measured. Closest to the carb it was 5.85mm; then a narrow thicker part was about 6.87; then a wider part towards the tip was 6.20; then at the tip it was 6.90. Barb ID was 3.75mm. The black hose ID was 4.91, so plenty snug it seems to me. But it ain't working.

Tmw I'm taking the carb to a local-ish Honda dealer to try and get some actual motorcycle fuel line, the clear stuff.

On the plus side, it did start on the second kick! Almost on the first one.

Also my new OEM Honda side cover and knob came in today. Trying to get the pic up. Lost my nifty little photo editor in the upgrade. Edit: got it, sorta.....

[TominMO]

Re-thinking the fuel line issue. Did a search on fuel barbs for these carbs. They do not have the same design as modern barbs. One guy had loose barbs, and solved it with JB Weld. Now no leaky.

I was curious if the leak was from where the barb fit into the petcock, or from the hose end. Previously I had assumed it was the hose not getting sealed enough. So I connected a spare piece of hose and used one of the Chinese clamps, but put it on with a small gap between the hose end and the petcock, so I could observe the barb and from which end the leaking was. Dribbled water in from my kitchen faucet. No leaking of any kind. The clamp was over the two higher sections of the barb, so maybe that also helped. I will re-try this test with actual gasoline, to see if that matters compared to water. The water went into the float bowl, so I drained it out with the screw-out drain plug.

Cold and high humidity today, so Ima gonna wimp out and get to it tmw or Sat.

[TominMO]

Went to Farm and Home, which has a great selection of fuel line in the Lawn & Garden section. Got 2 feet each of 3/16" and 1/4" clear line, about $5 apiece. Gonna fool with it tmw afternoon. In the morning I am meeting my kayak-paddlin' friend at Dick's Sporting Goods to look at kayaks.

Edit to change Tractor Supply to Farm and Home. Reason: senior moment.

[2LZ]

I feel your frustration. I have an oil line on the BSA that oozes for no apparent reason. At least I have a built-in excuse! It's Brit!

[TominMO]

Decided I'm gonna try and use the full black line for the Main. For the Reserve I'll cut the black line in half and stick a good quality fuel filter on it, with clear line from there to the petcock. Inside the tank, the Reserve hole is right on the tank's bottom, so debris is much more likely to go down that hole, The Main pipe sticks up about an inch or more, so for it I will rely on the carb's internal screen filter on its petcock.

I tried both the 3/16" and 1/4" line, and it's definitely 1/4". The 3/16" will make a good overflow line for the battery, but I will have to heat up the tip of the line slightly to soften it, to fit onto the battery's barb.

On Amazon there are cheap Chinese inline fuel filters which are known to self-destruct if you look at them wrong. Or you can get a K&N for $15ish. I am going to try a filter for a 1971 MGB, Fram G2 or Wix 33002, both about $3.

[XLsior]

The cheap plastic and paper pleat small 'motorcycle' feul filters are ok* and usualy come in lots of 5x/10x/20x so if 1 fails for whatever reason its easy enough to replace.

The glass/chrome 'reusable' filters are absolutely a hazard and best avoided.

[TominMO]

The cheap plastic and paper pleat small 'motorcycle' feul filters are ok* and usualy come in lots of 5x/10x/20x so if 1 fails for whatever reason its easy enough to replace.

The glass/chrome 'reusable' filters are absolutely a hazard and best avoided.
I would rather just buy one good quality filter that will last many thousands of miles, rather than deal with a broken filter away from home.