Where can I get the best deal on a replacement 250cc engine?

[98 SNAKE EATER]

New to this stuff, so please bear with me

Picked up a little bike project recently (Cyclewerks Heist)

https://i.postimg.cc/4dbywhyy/20230214-123621.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/J4t7HFNG/20230215-112655.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Dz1wybq6/20230215-112627.jpg

Rather than messing around with the original motor, I'm considering just replacing the whole thing if cost effective

From what I've been told, it's just a basic CG250cc upright with 5 speed trans

I see plenty similar engines on EBay, all under different names

Some with 4 speeds, some with 5, some with reverse, etc.

Where can I get the best deal on a bolt in replacement?

[Thumper]

Post the engine model number. Find it stamped on the case, probably below the stator cover, behind the gear shift. It is probably 165FML. A photo would be useful.

But frankly, I am pretty sure this engine runs. put oil in it (about a quart after draining it). kick it over and verify it isn't frozen. Take off the carb and clean it, fuel the thing and crank it with a good battery. I don't think you will even have to kick start it!

[Thumper]

Could be a Lifan, or Dongfang or Zongshen (nice engines)
https://www.vaderparts.com/products/250cc-dongfang-4-stroke-engine-motorcycles-chopper
But really, you probably don't have much work to do to get it running. I think it is a counterbalanced 223cc 5 speed. I'll bet the clutch even works!

[98 SNAKE EATER]

Appears to be seized :shrug:

Tried rolling downhill and popping the clutch in all gears, but the wheel just locks up each time

I wanna try kicking it over, but I need to order a lever (as well as a battery)

I'll try to take a pic of the stamp tomorrow and see if I can find a set of jumper cables

[98 SNAKE EATER]

Found these listed on Marketplace for $150 each

https://i.postimg.cc/nzxvB5G8/329315474-6066072913415398-3520791902107990089-n.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/t4LdC714/330738535-5696245943837108-6806839138156812699-n.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/d0r27vdm/331880251-5432618456838144-7874350541052935000-n.jpg

Seller hasn't been able to give me details on the gearboxes yet though

[JerryHawk250]

That would be a direct replacement as long as it's not the ATV 4 speed with reverse. They didn't have a picture from the front so you can read the shift pattern label?

[98 SNAKE EATER]

https://i.postimg.cc/LXsdTHSL/20230220-091144.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/zf7ZKysq/20230220-091150.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/9Mg6gvXS/20230220-091153.jpg

167FMM

What's the difference?

[JerryHawk250]

the only difference is your stock engine is counter balanced and the ones you are looking at are not. The Brozz engine is counter balanced. https://shop.brozz250.com/eshopprod_cat_5820373-5935582_product_8659831.Brozz_Complete_Engine.htm

[TommyD]

The Marketplace engines might be 200cc as many of these are listed as 200/250cc on Ebay. I've messaged sellers to get exact specs and never get a reply.

[Thumper]

Found these listed on Marketplace for $150 each



Seller hasn't been able to give me details on the gearboxes yet though

The front sprockets do not look worn at all. I wonder if these engines have actually been in service? They could both be a good deal. Intake manifold is missing on one. I zoomed into the shift pattern on one of them, Can't make it out either.

[98 SNAKE EATER]

the only difference is your stock engine is counter balanced and the ones you are looking at are not. The Brozz engine is counter balanced. https://shop.brozz250.com/eshopprod_cat_5820373-5935582_product_8659831.Brozz_Complete_Engine.htm


Is there a noticable difference between the two in terms of performance or is the non counterbalanced motors just a bit more buzzy?

If that's the only difference and it will still work, I wouldn't mind, especially since I'll be saving a bit of coin.

On another note, I've read a few EBay reviews stating some gear boxes have weird shift patterns.

Aren't they all supposed to be 1 down/4 up for the 5 speeds?

I saw one claim it was backwards and another claim to be Neutral down and 5 up :crazy:

[98 SNAKE EATER]

The front sprockets do not look worn at all. I wonder if these engines have actually been in service? They could both be a good deal. Intake manifold is missing on one. I zoomed into the shift pattern on one of them, Can't make it out either.


Supposedly new, but the seller still has yet to get back to me with my questions, so I'm not holding my breath :shrug:

[Thumper]

New would explain that there is no oil showing up in the sight windows.

A backwards or different shift pattern can be learned (for $150 new engine!), but 4 speed or reverse would be useless for you. I see 6 positions on the gear pattern indicator but can't read the numbers. So hopefully, at least one is a 5 speed. Probably both. By the way, as far as I know 167 is for a 67mm cylinder bore, and that is the standard 223cc CGclone displacement like I have on my Bashan Storm.

[david3921]

Probably not ATV motors as they have kick start shafts. Also, it's weird that your original motor doesn't have the manufacturer's initials in front of the engine size/type. I don't think I've seen that before.

[XLsior]

regarding those 2 new* engines...the sticker on the flywheel casing shows the gear shift pattern. I can see them but can't read them.

the rocker covers are the CG125 type which sit flush with the head which to me indicate CG200 heads on possible CG250 cylinders.

So I would say they are mishmash CG250...

However for the price its still a good deal...If you can a close up photo of the serial numbers and the gear pattern sticker then that would take out some of the guess work.

[98 SNAKE EATER]

Ok, some good news :)

She was locked up pretty tight, so I pulled the plug, squirted some Kroil down into the cylinder and let her sit for a few hours.

Dumped the clutch while rolling downhill and she broke free.

Installed a new kick start lever and it appears that she has compression :tup:

https://youtube.com/shorts/Dx89bB08Ti8?feature=share

Now, a few questions (please bear with me as I'm new to these things).

I ordered a new twist throttle grip set and it came with a single cable.

The original cable is a dual "Y" type

It screws into the new hand throttle, but the cable itself feels a bit tight (pretty sure I already ruined the plastic twisty bit on the hand grip by forcing it)

What is the second cable on the top of the carb used for and is it necessary?

It already has a manual choke cable on the signal switch assembly.

Kinda lost in the mess of wiring and I'd like to order a complete harness as there are a few melted bits, but before I do, I wanna make sure it actually runs.

From what I can tell, it's missing a CDI box and rectifier.

If I picked these up separately, could I just bypass the ignition switch part of the wiring to get it up and running?

That being said, it looks like the complete wiring harness with everything I need can be had on the cheap, so I might as well just order it.

Only hang up is the type of stator (2 or 3 hole)

Without pulling the cover and eyeballing it, is it possible to confirm which one I have based on the serial number?

Also, is a battery necessary or will it run without just off the magneto?

Gunna try bumping the starter with some jumper cables tomorrow just to make sure it's good.

https://i.postimg.cc/zfTxFnLN/20230222-102018.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/JnbS0f3b/20230222-110740.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/vmwzTc0N/20230222-104646.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/5NZ5KXW2/20230222-105355.jpg

[Thumper]

That IS great news :tup:

You have lots of clean up work to do, but getting that engine running would really be amazing. Carb cleaning, chain work, pod filter adaptation might not be all that much work.


Regarding the carb, The slide connection (top) is a standard single throttle control. That is all that most carbs need. Choke is normally the only other necessary connection. I do NOT recognize the rotating device connected to the second cable. It obscures the slide height set screw (idle).

Someone else here will need to step in. A couple of close up photos might be useful.

[98 SNAKE EATER]

I've actually been doing some research on the carb and I see they're available pretty cheap.

Would it be worthwhile to upgrade to a PZ30?

Also, where can I get a replacement Split-Y throttle cable?

The only one I've been able to find is for a PW80 and it looks close, but doesn't appear to have threaded ends :hmm:

[david3921]

I've actually been doing some research on the carb and I see they're available pretty cheap.

Would it be worthwhile to upgrade to a PZ30?

Also, where can I get a replacement Split-Y throttle cable?

The only one I've been able to find is for a PW80 and it looks close, but doesn't appear to have threaded ends :hmm:

I had to do some searches to find out about the carb on your bike. Most carbs on these engines have two cables; one for the choke and one for the throttle. Yours has three. The throttle cable is split so that it controls the throttle and what's called an accelerating pump. I don't know anything about these but others might chime in. Many of us have this type of engine on our rides and none of them have this pump.

With all that being said, you need a different carb to use the throttle you bought. I think PZ30 is too big. The ones here that have a Rhino have gone with the VM26. It would allow you to go to just two cables (throotle/choke) and it takes Mikuni jets for tuning.

[XLsior]

The carb already installed looks to be a PZ30B pumper carb.

You can run the the bike single throttle cable without the pump actuator connected and essentially have a PZ30...

as for the 'cheap wiring kits' they are ok but i would recommend up-rating the ground and active 12v wires as the are typically very low gauge and prone to frizzling.

I ended up replacing the ground and 12v with twin core 15amp auto cable.

[98 SNAKE EATER]

The carb already installed looks to be a PZ30B pumper carb.

You can run the the bike single throttle cable without the pump actuator connected and essentially have a PZ30...

as for the 'cheap wiring kits' they are ok but i would recommend up-rating the ground and active 12v wires as the are typically very low gauge and prone to frizzling.

I ended up replacing the ground and 12v with twin core 15amp auto cable.

Assuming the accelerator pump works like a typical one on a car, wouldn't the carb run lean without the pump actuating?

Would I need to step up on jetting to compensate?

And yeah, I'd definitely all the hot wires on the kit, but just curious if it will run without a battery at all :hmm:

On my old MiniChopper build, the motor had an electric start that I never used.

Never installed a battery either

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e-FIEGsxSk

[XLsior]

all the pump does is squirt a small amount of fuel each time the the throttle closes then opens.

So it wont really effect daily operation is just adds more response snap...

jetting shouldn't be implicated to the point of detriment...

If the factory wiring doesn't look butchered it might not need to be replaced anyway.

[98 SNAKE EATER]

Ok, if that's the case, I'll just try using the new single cable.

Main goal is just to get her up and running again, I'll worry about fine tuning later on.


It already needs a cdi box and rectifier and I'm uncertain of the condition of the coil and rest of wiring, so I figure it would just be easier and cost effective to replace everything.

Looking at this kit on Amazon

https://amzn.to/3Yx4tvu

I've checked with other companies on Ebay and they say the only difference would be the stator type (2 or 3 hole).

Is there any way of knowing this without having to pull the cover?

[david3921]

You've going to have to pull the cover anyway to install a new one. It's better to check that it will fit before ordering.

[98 SNAKE EATER]

You've going to have to pull the cover anyway to install a new one. It's better to check that it will fit before ordering.


Yeah, but that's only if I have to replace it (wasn't planning on it unless I have to) ;)

It just happens to be included with the new kit, so I was hoping I could confirm which one I have by the serial number or perhaps eyeballing the wiring on the plug just in case I really do need it :hmm:

[david3921]

Yeah, but that's only if I have to replace it (wasn't planning on it unless I have to) ;)

It just happens to be included with the new kit, so I was hoping I could confirm which one I have by the serial number or perhaps eyeballing the wiring on the plug just in case I really do need it :hmm:

I was basing this on what you said here:

"It already needs a cdi box and rectifier and I'm uncertain of the condition of the coil and rest of wiring, so I figure it would just be easier and cost effective to replace everything."

Also, on the carb, based on the state of the rest of the engine, you should assume that your carb is all gummed up with junk. You'll probably spend a whole lot of time tearing it down and cleaning it when it would be far easier and cheaper just to install a new carb.

BTW, you might want to check out this thread at Mychinamoto;

http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/showthread.php?3054-CCW-tha-Heist

Lots of good info and it looks to confirm that the size of the carb is a PZ30. You can confirm the size when you pull the carb for cleaning or replacing.

[Thumper]

The carb already installed looks to be a PZ30B pumper carb.

You can run the the bike single throttle cable without the pump actuator connected and essentially have a PZ30...

as for the 'cheap wiring kits' they are ok but i would recommend up-rating the ground and active 12v wires as the are typically very low gauge and prone to frizzling.

I ended up replacing the ground and 12v with twin core 15amp auto cable.

Good call XLsior. I bought a new rack of Mikuni RS smoothbore for my 1200S Bandit about a decade ago, and they had an adjustable accelerator pump. I should have recognized it. Also, this appears to be a legit Japanese made Keihin carb. It would be worth cleaning and rebuilding.

Snake- If you replace it, it might be better to get a PZ28 if the head has not been ported. It will be easier to tune. You should be able to run the pumper with a single throttle cable, but I don't think you will be able to use that carb at all unless you rebuild it. It will be gunked up. Find a kit, and restore the accelerator pump. I think it wil be worth the effort.

[98 SNAKE EATER]

Yeah, I definitely plan on pulling the carb for a cleaning

Just wanna make sure fires up first

Depending on how she runs, I'll see about possibly ordering a new carb.

I mean they're dirt cheap, might as well...

Actually tipped her over to get a better look at the wiring and saw what looks like a rectifier bolted to the bottom of the motor (hard to tell as it was raining).

Thanks for the chinamoto link btw

Reading through it right now

[98 SNAKE EATER]

Starter motor works

https://youtu.be/vpY75YEP-5c

[98 SNAKE EATER]

Ok, so is it possible to tell which stator I have by the wires/plug?

Mine looks like 6 wires (unless I'm lookin at the wrong one)

[Thumper]

The gear position indicator wire bus has 6 wires. They come from the area of the front sprocket cover. That might be what you have there.

[98 SNAKE EATER]

The gear position indicator has 6 wires. That might be what you have there.


Ahh, I'll have to take a closer look tomorrow

[98 SNAKE EATER]

OK, you were right on the gear position indicator

Haven't had much time to play with it lately since it's been covered with snow, but I did eyeball it a bit more.

Stator has 5 wires (Yellow, Yellow, Yellow, Green and Blue/White Stripe)

https://i.postimg.cc/pr4xqvPZ/20230301-085432.jpg

Regulator also has 5 wires (Yellow, Yellow, Yellow, Green and Red)

https://i.postimg.cc/tC8Cz3Tj/Hfb877361ad614aa390ff8c0453fa6660u-jpg-720x720q50.jpg


The 3 Yellow wires for both units have individual plugs that appear to plug into eachother (everything was unplugged)

https://i.postimg.cc/L6gmhJV0/20230224-091422.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/kgrqS71M/20230224-102611.jpg

Ordered up a new DC CDI Box with pigtails and will attempt to do some basic wiring just to get it started this weekend (weather permitting)

Once I confirm it runs, I'll see whether or not I can salvage what's left of the original harness or just replace everything.

Been trying to identify what I have based on the wire color, but every diagram I've found online either has more wires or conflicting color codes :hmm:

Threw this diagram together based on my little research and just wanna get your thoughts on it before I go blowing myself up :doh:


https://i.postimg.cc/fbNzGMmq/Wiring-Diagram.png



Am I on the right track or do I need to make changes?

[98 SNAKE EATER]

Success

All wiring pretty much the same as shown in my diagram

https://youtu.be/F0a3nNr5rLw

[buzz]

Good job,nice looking bike. Working on these is easy,lots of help on here.

[Thumper]

Nice work Snake. Your hard work rewarded. Those folks that started Cleveland Cycle works might like to see your success. This makes getting the rest of the package cleaned up and working!!

[98 SNAKE EATER]

Easy kick start



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AllbdVh7254

[98 SNAKE EATER]

A little rattle can tan


https://i.postimg.cc/tgDrMLPc/20230314-171458.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/4nCwcZkY/20230314-172623.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/h4HqsdKd/20230314-184132.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/CKLy5CsW-/20230316-202322.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/DydYGJ0F/20230320-181144.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/L89Q39gP/20230320-181317.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/PqN60S4r/20230320-182303.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/fRqC7xN4/20230322-090322.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/SNrDsB1x/20230322-090327.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/3wyBtd8k/20230322-170142.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/MKdmxyXc/20230324-093655.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/wv8hF24r/20230324-170042.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/sDD5nvK3/20230324-180713.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/L6bgNvnV/20230326-115723.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/xdyCDPTh/20230326-173913.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/4y3n1hGM/20230326-172123.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/wvMdf5th/20230326-174626.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/6678TnH2/20230326-181249.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/FzJXm9Vz/20230326-175440.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/5tM0Rr18/20230326-173926.jpg


Still need to do a bit of wiring

[Barnone]

Looking good! I am glad you saved her!

[buzz]

How are you going to ride without a chain?

[98 SNAKE EATER]

How are you going to ride without a chain?



https://youtu.be/O05WF_No5Z4

https://youtu.be/gEGYwbtCIJk

[buzz]

Ah i see you got it,enjoy.

[98 SNAKE EATER]

Yeah, the chain was pretty rusty, but after soaking in vinegar for a few days and a good boil (don't tell the wife I used her pot), it freed up pretty good

[98 SNAKE EATER]

https://i.postimg.cc/WbHQpyZd/20230608-114756.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/1X4JL9JJ/20230609-144930.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/TPq7bNKq/20230609-121437.jpg