Oil Leak on Hawk 250

[Zapkin]

About to roll over 5000 units and started smelling burnt oil occasionally at stoplights. Since the bike is not smoking, I looked closely and found this. How serious is this? How can I fix this? Do I even need to bother? I checked the oil level, and it seems to be fine, so the leak is slow.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Edit: I have come to the conclusion that it's a head gasket leak (please correct me if I am wrong). I contacted PSM, but I doubt it's covered under warranty and just wanted to find out how much a replacement gasket would cost. I am 100% sure I can do the work myself as I have access to a torque wrench and several excellent videos of the procedure on YouTube. But my big question is this: How long can I go before I have to deal with this? Would tightening the head be worthwhile, or should I just do the gasket? Also, any additional advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Sport Rider]

gasket bad. gonna have to pull the head. shouldn't be too terribly bad to do. It can wait though, not urgent. a good bit of fresh oil there though, so I'd say "soon".

[Zapkin]

gasket bad. gonna have to pull the head. shouldn't be too terribly bad to do. It can wait though, not urgent. a good bit of fresh oil there though, so I'd say "soon".

since this is my daily driver, I will need to repair it sooner than later. But that being said, winter is coming, and I would love to put it off. Thanks for the help.

[J4Fun]

If it were me I would attempt to tighten the head bolts. If this all of a sudden came on, the gasket could need to be repaired quickly. If like the leak on my Snapper lawn mower that’s still leaking it’s still not much more than a wash job every once in awhile. The leak started 10 years ago. Just my thoughts and the repair isn’t difficult if needed!

[JerryHawk250]

I agree with J4fun. Maybe check head bolts and snug them up. It might not be a permanent fix, but it will give you time to deal with the gasket replacement during the winter. That would be a good time to d some porting.

[Megadan]

The oil passes through to the head on the opposite corner of where you found the leak. On the fiber style head gaskets there is also an O ring used to help seal off that corner.

As suggested, try to snug up the head bolts and see if that helps (24ft-lbs). If it keeps leaking, pick up a TT250 headgasket, which is steel and does not require the O-ring. Also a bit thinner so it gives a small bump in compression.

[JerryHawk250]

The Brozz 250 also uses the metal gasket.
https://shop.brozz250.com/eshopprod_cat_5820373-5934482_product_8486237.Cylinder_Assembly.htm

[Zapkin]

pick up a TT250 headgasket, which is steel and does not require the O-ring. Also a bit thinner so it gives a small bump in compression.

its in my cart. 12.95 from california scooter company. thanks.

[Zapkin]

whoa..looks like the one from the brozz site is half as much.

[Thumper]

Maybe it is indeed a head bolt issue, and will seal up. Maybe!
Then you can send back the head gasket for refund.

[Zapkin]

Maybe it is indeed a head bolt issue, and will seal up. Maybe!
Then you can send back the head gasket for refund.

gonna keep it for a rainy day.

[Zapkin]

I think if I am going to pull it apart to torque it down (ordered a torque wrench, never had one) might as well just change it. Also the digital dash is coming so i figure take it all apart at the same time. I will also take that time to install the turbo charger that I 3d printed.

[Zapkin]

i cleaned off all of the oil you see in the picture. Then I took the bike up Miller Hill (deep gravel miserably first gear all the way) and at the top I could smell oil. I rode it home. Since then I've been to moundsville a few times and I cant sense a loss of compression. But, very soon I am going to fix it. I cant freakin wait!!! (im not kidding!!)
https://maps.app.goo.gl/KCpNPm9M5ii2ecVk6

i know it is not good to push it, but truth is a whole engine is so cheap and the fact I get to learn in the process..its a win win. Thanks.

plus..its a Hawk.

[Bill Hilly]

I would bet it's leaking around the O Ring, but it sounds like it's not really hurting anything, as long as it doesn't run low on oil.

[Zapkin]

i will tear it apart. I need to tear it apart. I want to tear it apart. and I will fix it. and then I will laugh at myself for ever being stressed out about it. tomorrow I am going back out. hell i might do it today.

[Zapkin]

I would bet it's leaking around the O Ring, but it sounds like it's not really hurting anything, as long as it doesn't run low on oil.

I just want to fix it, learn from it. etc. i tend to anthropomorphize my vehicles.

[Bill Hilly]

i will tear it apart. I need to tear it apart. I want to tear it apart. and I will fix it. and then I will laugh at myself for ever being stressed out about it. tomorrow I am going back out. hell i might do it today.

I noticed that you ordered a steel gasket from CSC. You would be using the O-Ring then, but you may want to paint the gasket with some Copper Coat, or something similar. I remember my Dad taking a small roller, and painting copper head gaskets with alluminium color paint of some type, when ever he would work on the tractors.

[Zapkin]

i feel guilty now for even contacting them, but I live on a fixed income and I have a bunch of very needy grand kids and daughters so I am looking to keep things on a budget. Which is why i bought the hawk i love her so. I would put 1000 engines in her to repay the freedom i;ve gotten since may. I cant even explain it. But lets just say, this hawk has change my whole life.

[Texas Pete]

That aluminum paint had a large amount of powdered aluminum which acted as a bandaid for badly machined stuff or scratched up. Filled in the tiny gaps and glued the gasket on. Good for reusing old heads etc.

And the old steel shim gaskets needed every bandaid they would get as they were finicky.

[Bill Hilly]

i feel guilty now for even contacting them, but I live on a fixed income and I have a bunch of very needy grand kids and daughters so I am looking to keep things on a budget. Which is why i bought the hawk i love her so. I would put 1000 engines in her to repay the freedom i;ve gotten since may. I cant even explain it. But lets just say, this hawk has change my whole life.

After I got hurt on my TBR7 a month ago, I had tried riding a few times, and couldn't stand to keep my knee bent enough to hold my foot on the peg. I think it even made my injury worse. It took a long time for my wound to start filling in, and I started worrying about it, because I am not a Doctor, or Hospital person, but once it covered the bone back up, then it started filling in fast, but I had contemplated just giving up riding. I have been riding a couple times this week, and can now keep my foot positioned on the peg, but I have a new respect for riding. I HATE having to go through the PIA of dressing in riding pants, and wearing a jacket, but I do wear them now. I was just getting to confident on the bikes. I went for about an hour, and a half long trip today , and was on a freshly paved secondary road, that I would have flew on just a month ago, but I didn't. I will miss just wearing a sleeveless shirt, and jeans, next summer, but I intend to ride safer than I have for the past couple of years. I don't really know, if riding has changed my life much, but it is my favorite hobby. I have even concidered trying to combine fishing, and riding, and even bought one of those collapsible rods, but just never used it. I know it's kinda gross, but this is a picture of my wounded knee taken a couple of weeks ago. http://https://i.ibb.co/c85RPSh/ASTRO-55-R-09192023-154914.jpg (https://ibb.co/1XVB3tG)

[chiefmeat68]

You just reminded me of my co-worker who has half of his actual kneecap cast in acrylic as a paper weight!

He lost it in a motorcycle crash in his 20's.

I feel the same about how much my hawk has given me enjoyment and freedom... but I too definitely need to up my safety game!

[Megadan]

i will tear it apart. I need to tear it apart. I want to tear it apart. and I will fix it. and then I will laugh at myself for ever being stressed out about it. tomorrow I am going back out. hell i might do it today.

It takes longer to remove the plastics and tank than it does to get the head off. 18 bolts in total once everything is out of the way. 2 for intake side, 2 for the head pipe, 3 for the top mount plates. 3 for the valve cover. 3 for the rocker box. 5 for the head itself (4 inside, and the one on the left side that acts as the cam follower pivot retainer.)

Just don't forget to set the engine to TDC on compression before you take the head off. Also, whilst removing the 4 nuts for the head inside the valve cover, stuff some paper towels or a shop rag into the holes where the pushrods come up. This will help protect against the potential for one of the washers to accidentally fall down into places you don't want it to go.

[Megadan]

I noticed that you ordered a steel gasket from CSC. You would be using the O-Ring then, but you may want to paint the gasket with some Copper Coat, or something similar. I remember my Dad taking a small roller, and painting copper head gaskets with alluminium color paint of some type, when ever he would work on the tractors.

You shouldn't need any sort of gasket spray for the steel gaskets on these engines. As long as the jug and head surfaces are true (flat) and of decent surface finish it should actually seal up just fine.

If it makes you feel better you can use it if desired. Definitely no harm in doing so. I just try to avoid using them because they can be messy.

[Zapkin]

After I got hurt on my TBR7 a month ago, I had tried riding a few times, and couldn't stand to keep my knee bent enough to hold my foot on the peg. I think it even made my injury worse. It took a long time for my wound to start filling in, and I started worrying about it, because I am not a Doctor, or Hospital person, but once it covered the bone back up, then it started filling in fast, but I had contemplated just giving up riding. I have been riding a couple times this week, and can now keep my foot positioned on the peg, but I have a new respect for riding. I HATE having to go through the PIA of dressing in riding pants, and wearing a jacket, but I do wear them now. I was just getting to confident on the bikes. I went for about an hour, and a half long trip today , and was on a freshly paved secondary road, that I would have flew on just a month ago, but I didn't. I will miss just wearing a sleeveless shirt, and jeans, next summer, but I intend to ride safer than I have for the past couple of years. I don't really know, if riding has changed my life much, but it is my favorite hobby. I have even concidered trying to combine fishing, and riding, and even bought one of those collapsible rods, but just never used it. I know it's kinda gross, but this is a picture of my wounded knee taken a couple of weeks ago. http://https://i.ibb.co/c85RPSh/ASTRO-55-R-09192023-154914.jpg (https://ibb.co/1XVB3tG)

I am sorry for your pain, but thank you for reminding me that I need riding gear. I've been putting it off, but I know I shouldn't.

[Bill Hilly]

I am sorry for your pain, but thank you for reminding me that I need riding gear. I've been putting it off, but I know I shouldn't.

My knee is way better now, and back to more of a normal size. I have been riding a lot more now, but I haven't been back in gravel.

[JerryHawk250]

I am sorry for your pain, but thank you for reminding me that I need riding gear. I've been putting it off, but I know I shouldn't.
Definitely invest in riding gear. :tup: I learned my lesson the hard way when I was 18. I did have a helmet on when I crashed. It literally saved my life. Better to have a cracked helmet instead of a cracked skull.

[flopsweat]

I'm glad I never had a moment to get used to not wearing gear, and the least amount of gear I've ever worn on a bike was during the first couple MSF courses. Except for one time when I was camping, I dare say, rode from my site to the host's site with zero gear whatsoever. I felt as naked as a jaybird during that 200 yards at 4mph. I mean I've seen people shatter their collar bone just falling to the side at a dead stop, so I'll take whatever I can get to mitigate the risk and lower the stakes, even just a little.


One of these days I'll have enough for a Helite airbag vest, and then my hand will be forced to full-throttle through Chicago rush hour on a Ducati Panigale V4R. I'm sure it's fairly comparable to my "TT229".

[Zapkin]

gasket is coming UPS from PSM. I took notes Megadan, don't want to mess this up and also have watched Youtube vids. I think I got this! I am waiting now for speedometer so I can do it all at one time, but I want to ride into the sticks and so I might have to do the gasket before the speedo gets here.

[Megadan]

add this to your notes. When installing the 3 bolts for the top motor mount, make sure the nuts are on the right side of the bike. If you install them backwards you may damage your fuel tank.

[Zapkin]

add this to your notes. When installing the 3 bolts for the top motor mount, make sure the nuts are on the right side of the bike. If you install them backwards you may damage your fuel tank.

any particular torque settings for engine bolts?

thanks! the package came to my daughters today. looks like they sent a whole gasket set.

[Zapkin]

they sent me this!

thank you Zora and crew at powersportsmax.com

[Thumper]

Wow. Those appear to be crankcase half center gasket, clutch basket cover gasket, cylinder gasket (lower) and head gasket. Seems like that's a flywheel side cover gasket in there too! Well, you have more parts to save! But the head gasket will come in handy right away.

[Zapkin]

get this! maintenance man in my building knocks on door this morning telling me manager needs to see me in office with police, someone stole something off the bike. Well I go down, some shady looking dude went right up under my cover and stole my phone mount. then hopped on his bike and rode away. well, the manager knows who it is, other residents know who he is and I am pressing charges. its only a 20 dollar item, but its (was) my freakin speedometer right now!

[JerryHawk250]

Time to setup some type of shocking device. Many yeas ago where I use to live i had problems with people trying to break into my car at night. At least two or three time a week my alarm would go off in the middle of the night and I would have to get up and try to catch them in the act. I got tired of it. I asked a friend of mine if i could borrow his electric fence shock box. I ran a wire to my car and used an alligator clip to connect it to the frame. That night I hear the alarm go off and right after heard a loud scream. By the time I got up I saw the guy running down the street. I never had any more problem after that. :lmao:

I hope you catch the SOB.

[Zapkin]

Time to setup some type of shocking device. Many yeas ago where I use to live i had problems with people trying to break into my car at night. At least two or three time a week my alarm would go off in the middle of the night and I would have to get up and try to catch them in the act. I got tired of it. I asked a friend of mine if i could borrow his electric fence shock box. I ran a wire to my car and used an alligator clip to connect it to the frame. That night I hear the alarm go off and right after heard a loud scream. By the time I got up I saw the guy running down the street. I never had any more problem after that. :lmao:

I hope you catch the SOB.

it's only a 20-dollar item but it's the final nail in the coffin of me living in this building. I am moving to another place, nearer my youngest daughter, down in Moundsville where the human filth is less prevalent. ironically, I had given my 30 day notice yesterday, the same day I was stolen from.

oh well, better times ahead.

PS: just got the tracking number for the Zarella.

[Bill Hilly]

it's only a 20-dollar item but it's the final nail in the coffin of me living in this building. I am moving to another place, nearer my youngest daughter, down in Moundsville where the human filth is less prevalent. ironically, I had given my 30 day notice yesterday, the same day I was stolen from.

oh well, better times ahead.
I know people around here that are into that ghost / paranormal BS, and they have been on tours of the old Moundsville prison, and the Trans Allegheny Lunatic Asalym . They are having a big Halloween party at the lunatic Asalym here pretty soon , and they are going.

[Zapkin]

I know people around here that are into that ghost / paranormal BS, and they have been on tours of the old Moundsville prison, and the Trans Allegheny Lunatic Asalym . They are having a big Halloween party at the lunatic Asalym here pretty soon , and they are going.

I toured the Moundsville pen in 1999. those cells are inhumanely small. and at times they were 3 to a cell. whether the place is haunted depends on the level of insanity of the person who is in it at the time. hehe. (it's all in the brain!) I like Moundsville, it's more of my type of humans.

[buzz]

Best of luck to you.

[Zapkin]

Today is the day. The dash is coming today and I intend to head down to son in laws, do the dash and the head gasket. I re-read the thread and took more notes. I think I got this, plus there is youtube. Thanks again. I will let y'all know how it goes later this evening.

[Zapkin]

Well part of its done. Did the gauge.

waiting till thursday to do the head. warmer weather and help.

the leak looks like this now.

[XLsior]

Out of curiosity could the leak be caused by this bolt

[Zapkin]

Out of curiosity could the leak be caused by this bolt


well i did put a wrench on it briefly and it felt tight but it was a small wrench and i didn't want to mess anything up. i will check with a better tool. thanks. i've heard to use 24 ft/lbs on all of them also heard use 20 ft/lbs on this particular bolt.

[Zapkin]

If the instructions for your gauge didn`t mention it set the wheel size to 19 inch instead of 21 if the speed reads faster than actual speed you are going.

I set it to 21, and it seems right but now you have me wondering. will check with GPS today.

thanks.

[Zapkin]

Every single head bolt underneath the rocker assembly was so loose that I could turn it with my fingers no wonder it was leaking

[Zapkin]

Okay so wow every single bolt all the way down to now removing the bottom end of the cylinder every single bolt is finger loose this was supposed to be a refurbished bike so what do they do come through and loosen all the freaking bolts

[Bill Hilly]

Every single head bolt underneath the rocker assembly was so loose that I could turn it with my fingers no wonder it was leaking

You are lucky to have caught it in time. I evidently was still holding compression, but it could have failed at any time. Old air cooled VW motors were bad to ruin the jug/ head threads in the block . All it took was one stud to turn, instead of the nut. I had several Bugs in my youth, and while people look at the old Bug with fond memories, most people these days wouldn't put up with one for long.

[Zapkin]

Every nut that I've come across now all the way down to taking the bottom part of the cylinder apart is loose refurbished I don't know

[Megadan]

well i did put a wrench on it briefly and it felt tight but it was a small wrench and i didn't want to mess anything up. i will check with a better tool. thanks. i've heard to use 24 ft/lbs on all of them also heard use 20 ft/lbs on this particular bolt.

That particular bolt could potentially cause a leak on that side. The oil drain off from the head runs through that side, so if loose oil could seep past the gasket if it doesn't stay sealed.

Original honda spec for that bolt is 16ft-lbs. Zongshen states 20. Somewhere between the two should be fine.

That bolt also acts as the locator/retainer for the cam follower shaft - the big silver plug below the bolt.

[Zapkin]

How does this look? this is the piston of the bike right now just over 5000 miles.

[XLsior]

Looks fine...fair bit of carbon on the piston top what does the underside of the head and valves look like?


other than looks check for bottom end bearing slop.


As far as a the inside of a CG engine goes nothing is looking bad.